Garda hits man with baton NAMA

johann johannson · 16-11-2015 02:17PM

Danger Fourpence wrote: »

The Garda isn't a Cyberdyne Systems Model 101 Series 800 Terminator. He can't gather this information when approached from behind.

No, but he wasn't approached by this man from behind. You clearly haven't watched the video. Before the main incident, an elderly man, in a red jacket, with a walking stick, was shoved to the ground, quite the potential danger it seems The gardai even managed to ignore the crowd saying that he had parkinson's disease.

Go have a proper watch of the video, read the reports and statements released and then come back with meaningful and valid input.

16-11-2015 02:18PM

The man was only hit once by the Garda
The man who fell with the walking stick, wasn't knocked by the Gardai. (If he wasn't well enough to stand the pace, why was he there?)
The man was being arrested for an earlier incident not involving either the Gardai or the protesters.
The man who was hit was in the thick of things, obstructing the Gardai from early in the video. What he was up to behind the Gardas back is unclear, but may shine some light on the Gardas reaction.
The protesters were not interested in having a discussion with the Gardai. They were heckling, sitting on the floor and being generally obstructive.

johann johannson · 16-11-2015 02:18PM

Danger Fourpence wrote: »

You have the benefit of a video to decide whether or not he was under threat. He was in the middle of a crowd, hostile to his presence and was approached from behind. You cannot say how he felt at that moment he decided to take out his baton.

Did he look frightened? Did he look under threat? He looked cool and calm to me, devoid from any expression on his face. But then that's my opinion and I'm only commenting on what I've seen.

Danger Fourpence · 16-11-2015 02:23PM

johann johannson wrote: »

No, but he wasn't approached by this man from behind. You clearly haven't watched the video. Before the main incident, an elderly man, in a red jacket, with a walking stick, was shoved to the ground, quite the potential danger it seems The gardai even managed to ignore the crowd saying that he had parkinson's disease.

Go have a proper watch of the video, read the reports and statements released and then come back with meaningful and valid input.

I have zero interest in watching the video again. I saw nothing untoward the first time. If I have to go through it in slow motion to find if I can agree with your opnion then I'll never finish watching it.

johann johannson · 16-11-2015 02:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The man was only hit once by the Garda
The man who fell with the walking stick, wasn't knocked by the Gardai. (If he wasn't well enough to stand the pace, why was he there?)
The man was being arrested for an earlier incident not involving either the Gardai or the protesters.
The man who was hit was in the thick of things, obstructing the Gardai from early in the video. What he was up to behind the Gardas back is unclear, but may shine some light on the Gardas reaction.
The protesters were not interested in having a discussion with the Gardai. They were heckling, sitting on the floor and being generally obstructive.

Deleted User wrote: »

The man was only hit once by the Garda

The man was hit 3 times by the garda. 3 times. Seriously, go watch the video. Carefully. Watch it. Or get someone to show you the three times he was struck.

Deleted User wrote: »

The man who fell with the walking stick, wasn't knocked by the Gardai. (If he wasn't well enough to stand the pace, why was he there?)

Again, watch the video. He was and can be clearly seen having his walking stick removed by the gardai. It's a peaceful protest, he was well within hi right to be there.

Deleted User wrote: »

The man who was hit was in the thick of things, obstructing the Gardai from early in the video. What he was up to behind the Gardas back is unclear, but may shine some light on the Gardas reaction.

Watch both angles, he was attempting to regain his balance.

Deleted User wrote: »

The protesters were not interested in having a discussion with the Gardai. They were heckling, sitting on the floor and being generally obstructive

Maryanne84, you seem to be having serious difficulty seeing what other people have seen in the video. Please have a look at both angles, that are on this thread, you can clearly see everything that has happened , as has been described.

He was up to nothing behind the garda, as you can clearly see from another angle, of which that video is available in this thread.

johann johannson · 16-11-2015 02:25PM

Danger Fourpence wrote: »

I have zero interest in watching the video again. I saw nothing untoward the first time. If I have to go through it in slow motion to find if I can agree with your opnion then I'll never finish watching it.

Well then, maybe you should refrain from further commenting with your esteemed opinion until you have examined it as closely as I, or others have.

NachoBusiness · 16-11-2015 02:27PM

Danger Fourpence wrote: »

You have the benefit of a video to decide whether or not he was under threat. He was in the middle of a crowd, hostile to his presence and was approached from behind. You cannot say how he felt at that moment he decided to take out his baton.

Danger Fourpence wrote: »

The Garda isn't a Cyberdyne Systems Model 101 Series 800 Terminator. He can't gather this information when approached from behind.

What are you waffling about now?

He was irritated by the old man speaking at him and so reached out his arm and pushed him and the girl beside him away. The girl fell over and grabbed the man's arm and he grabbed the Garda's arm so he wouldn't fall over. The Garda then pushes the man twice more to get him off his arm. That's why he ended up behind him. The man was clearly looking at the ground then and his attention was not even on the Garda when he took out his baton, turned and struck the man with it. He did not approach the Garda from behind. What absolute nonsense. That's up there with him apparently sexually assaulting the Garda and with him being a notebook thief. What next? He was pulling a knife.

Danger Fourpence · 16-11-2015 02:30PM

johann johannson wrote: »

Well then, maybe you should refrain from further commenting with your esteemed opinion until you have examined it as closely as I, or others have.

Surely someone advocating peaceful protest isn't suggesting I should shut my mouth and keep my opinion to myself??

johann johannson · 16-11-2015 02:33PM

Danger Fourpence wrote: »

Surely someone advocating peaceful protest isn't suggesting I should shut my mouth and keep my opinion to myself??

Ha I'm not advocating peaceful protest, nor am I telling you to shut your mouth and keep your opinion to yourself.

I asked to have a look at the video properly, and then provide a meaningful insight into what your opinion is. In fact, I welcome your opinion, as long as you can back up what you've said, rather than simply seeing what you want to see or reading what you want to read, as you have just proven.

Danger Fourpence · 16-11-2015 02:38PM

johann johannson wrote: »

Ha I'm not advocating peaceful protest, nor am I telling you to shut your mouth and keep your opinion to yourself.

I asked to have a look at the video properly, and then provide a meaningful insight into what your opinion is. In fact, I welcome your opinion, as long as you can back up what you've said, rather than simply seeing what you want to see or reading what you want to read, as you have just proven.

Sure. How many times must I go back and rewatch it? 3/4?

As I said already, a single individual in this crowd will say they've done nothing wrong and breaking the crowd down individually you will be able to show that for the most part. However, the Garda didn't get the opportunity to deal with them individually so cannot deal with each individual on a one to one basis.

Maybe someone who is an elderly man, and has parkinsons, should consider what might happen when attending protests.

sonny.knowles · 16-11-2015 02:41PM

Yodeling Snake wrote: »

Who are the 125 tits who liked this post?

You can be able to see the thankers listed below the post. If using the mobile version you should be able to expand the list. Hope this helps.

johann johannson · 16-11-2015 02:42PM

Danger Fourpence wrote: »

Maybe someone who is an elderly man, and has parkinsons, should consider what might happen when attending protests.

He has as much as a right to be there, as anyone else in that room. I'm sure he has worked enough years to stake that claim. Who are you to suggest that someone may not attend a place of their own will?

And maybe this man, was like the rest of the people in this room, attending a peaceful protest, which is what it was until the gardai showed up. How could he have foreseen what would happen?

God forbid you're wrong and this actually does not happen at peaceful protests. But of course, you appear to be the expert and know something this elderly man does not. Could you please enlighten us?

cython · 16-11-2015 02:42PM

johann johannson wrote: »

And this is the whole issue at these protests? The main point of this protest was to block NAMA, not block the gardai from doing their job.

So why did they get involved in the arrest at all so? Sorry, while that may be claimed as the original purpose of the protest, it descended into a farce of trying to obstruct Gardai in an investigation (discouraging the first individual from providing a name), and subsequently the obstruction of the arrest of same individual who refused to provide his name and address when validly requested by the Gardai.

johann johannson wrote: »

I also may point out, as clearly seen in the video, before Little CuChulainn quotes me on it and declares it gospel, the protestors were sitting down when the elderly man with parkinson's disease was set upon, by gardai.

The only issues to arise from this are (That I can see, again, before Little CuChulainn quotes me on it and declares it gospel):
- An arrest for resisting arrest, which is ironic. 'What were you arrested for?' 'Resisting arrest.'

Not resisting an arrest, but obstructing same. Please don't try to twist that to suggest there was never a valid cause for the arrest.

johann johannson wrote: »

- A elderly man, with parkinson's disease, who was knocked to the ground, by gardai, you can clearly see his dangerous weapon ( a walking stick) exposed as they tried to forcefully remove it from him.
- A not-so-elderly man ( because 58 is not old, as many you have said, despite his medical condition), a 58 year old, struck 3 times by a garda, for attempting to regain his balance when shoved repeatedly into another person, a woman I may add, by the very same Garda who pushed him. Would it be fair to compare this woman to a 'professional footballer' too?

What medical condition? I can't see this mentioned in any of your posts to date but you mention it like we should all be aware of it. I note also that it has escalated from 2 strikes to 3 since your first post on here - unless you count the alleged push as a strike as well? If so then you might as well jog on, as it's ludicrous. Or are you suggesting your father was knocked out (despite Eirigi not claiming this as badge of honour) by the second strike, and struck again while unconscious so as not to realise there was a third? That would be an even more serious allegation, and again, a fresh one here.

Most of the rest of your post seems to be addressing other posters very directly, so I'm not going to comment on it, but your claims of having no questions to answer despite the emerging inconsistencies in your posts now just seem evasive.

Danger Fourpence · 16-11-2015 02:44PM

johann johannson wrote: »

He has as much as a right to be there, as anyone else in that room. I'm sure he has worked enough years to stake that claim. Who are you to suggest that someone may not attend a place of their own will?

And maybe this man, was like the rest of the people in this room, attending a peaceful protest, which is what it was until the gardai showed up. How could he have foreseen what would happen?

God forbid you're wrong and this actually does not happen at peaceful protests. But of course, you appear to be the expert and know something this elderly man does not. Could you please enlighten us?

Never said he shouldn't show up. Never suggested I'm an expert. Like you I'm just a guy with an opinion, right or wrong.

It obviously wasn't peaceful until the Garda showed up since someone was being arrested for an alleged assault.

mynamejeff · 16-11-2015 02:45PM

NachoBusiness wrote: »

I am not saying that the man is not still there. What I am saying is that he is being led away by two other Gardai at the moment he was attacked with the baton. The elderly man had been interfering with the arrest when he was kneeling on the ground, I don't dispute that, but he was not interfering with an arrest when he was merely speaking with the Garda / attempting to regain his balance after having being pushed. In the screenshots I already provided earlier you can clearly see the arrested man being led away by the Garda in the baseball cap. See the 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th screencaps for proof of that. Which again is contrary to statements you have made such as:

funny that "garda" in the baseball cap and the other fella you claimed to be a garda who stopped the horrible assault can be seen in th backround of that 1 min video . 6.10 or so if you want to watch it , they seem to be fully involved in the protest at that stage

so wrong again lol

johann johannson · 16-11-2015 02:46PM

cython wrote: »

I note also that it has escalated from 2 strikes to 3 since your first post on here - unless you count the alleged push as a strike as well? If so then you might as well jog on, as it's ludicrous. Or are you suggesting your father was knocked out (despite Eirigi not claiming this as badge of honour) by the second strike, and struck again while unconscious so as not to realise there was a third? That would be an even more serious allegation, and again, a fresh one here.

The reason for the escalation in strikes, is because I have seen another angle, the one that was shared here. I watched both in slow motion and seen the 3 strikes. I watched again and again. I hold my hand up there, I counted wrong initially, but then, should I jog on for not counting correctly?

Eirigi can do as they please, they have no affiliation with me or my family as far as I'm concerned.

sonny.knowles · 16-11-2015 02:47PM

johann johannson wrote: »

a peaceful protest

Shouting 'peaceful protest' doesn't make it a peaceful protest.

Yodeling Snake · 16-11-2015 02:47PM

Danger Fourpence wrote: »

Sure. How many times must I go back and rewatch it? 3/4?

As I said already, a single individual in this crowd with say they've done nothing wrong and breaking the crowd down individually you will be able to show that for the most part. However, the Garda didn't get the opportunity to deal with them individually so cannot deal with each individual on a one to one basis.

Maybe someone who is an elderly man, and has parkinsons, should consider what might happen when attending protests.

That guard lost the rag and it as clear as day in that video. He can be clearly seen going for his baton in a collected manner then turns and proceeds to strike a man partaking in a peaceful protest. There was no justification for it. It's clear he just loses it. That guard needs reprimanding and retraining or maybe another career.

johann johannson · 16-11-2015 02:47PM

cython wrote: »

I note also that it has escalated from 2 strikes to 3 since your first post on here - unless you count the alleged push as a strike as well? If so then you might as well jog on, as it's ludicrous. Or are you suggesting your father was knocked out (despite Eirigi not claiming this as badge of honour) by the second strike, and struck again while unconscious so as not to realise there was a third? That would be an even more serious allegation, and again, a fresh one here.

The reason for the escalation in strikes, is because I have seen another angle, the one that was shared here. I watched both in slow motion and seen the 3 strikes. I watched again and again. I hold my hand up there, I counted wrong initially, but then, should I jog on for not counting correctly?

Eirigi can do as they please, they have no affiliation with me or my family as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT: And the reason for new information in the posts is unlike others, I dont rely on boards.ie to review the information.

NachoBusiness · 16-11-2015 02:52PM

Danger Fourpence wrote: »

Sure. How many times must I go back and rewatch it? 3/4?

As many as it takes for you to come up with a rational basis for your claims?

As I said already, a single individual in this crowd will say they've done nothing wrong and breaking the crowd down individually you will be able to show that for the most part. However, the Garda didn't get the opportunity to deal with them individually so cannot deal with each individual on a one to one basis.

The above has no relevance to what occurred. That Garda launched an attack on one man. A man who had been speaking with / at him mere seconds before. You are acting as if the Garda batoned a crowd and people are complaining because one of that crowd was innocent. That's not what occurred here. The Garda was the cause of the man interlinking his arm. He continued to push him off his arm and when he was free he turned and beat him. How can you say that was justified? Some specificity would be nice.

Danger Fourpence · 16-11-2015 02:54PM

NachoBusiness wrote: »

As many as it takes for you to come up with a rational basis for your claims?

Until I agree with your opinion, you mean.

I thought you guys were all for freedom of speech. So my opinion differs from yours, what's the problem?

Kimbot · 16-11-2015 02:56PM

Gardai can only use reasonable force in the course of their duties. Hitting someone more than once with a baton is more than reasonable force so the guard is completely in the wrong!

Paulzx · 16-11-2015 03:02PM

sonny.knowles wrote: »

Shouting 'peaceful protest' doesn't make it a peaceful protest.

I'm sorry but you are completely out of touch here. It's a well known fact that anybody screaming "peaceful protest" receives a full exemption from any actions they maybe taking whilst shouting it out.

The louder and more aggressively you scream it gives you more licence to carry out certain non "peaceful" actions. If you constantly repeat it and use a bull horn you are now officially outside the boundries of the law and can do what you wish.

.....................All mods on Boards are ****..."PEACEFUL PROTEST!!!! PEACEFUL PROTEST!!!!, PEACFUL PROTEST!!!!!

See, they can't touch me:)

mynamejeff · 16-11-2015 03:02PM

johann johannson wrote: »

No, but he wasn't approached by this man from behind. You clearly haven't watched the video. Before the main incident, an elderly man, in a red jacket, with a walking stick, was shoved to the ground, quite the potential danger it seems The gardai even managed to ignore the crowd saying that he had parkinson's disease.

Go have a proper watch of the video, read the reports and statements released and then come back with meaningful and valid input.

that poor man is sean doyle he ran for erigi in the last election and lost , he can often be seen throwing himself on the ground at IW and various protests
also regualry in court for assault and obstruction at these protests

njs030 · 16-11-2015 03:03PM

johann johannson wrote: »

The reason for the escalation in strikes, is because I have seen another angle, the one that was shared here. I watched both in slow motion and seen the 3 strikes. I watched again and again. I hold my hand up there, I counted wrong initially, but then, should I jog on for not counting correctly?

Eirigi can do as they please, they have no affiliation with me or my family as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT: And the reason for new information in the posts is unlike others, I dont rely on boards.ie to review the information.

In your original post you claimed the man hit twice in the leg and shoulder was knocked out. According to every other comment on social media he wasn't. Can you explain that please? Are you exaggerating or is everyone else lying?
Also it was said multiple times on Facebook he is from carlow, what was he doing at a protest in wexford?
If you hang out with eirgi you're going to be treated as being part of that movement whether you like it or not.
A peaceful protest is holding placards and chanting, not crowding around guards doing their job and pushing and shoving and interfering with an arrest. Once people start acting like that it's no longer peaceful - either walk away or don't complain if there's a reaction from the people you are causing problems for.

The man in red who allegedly has Parkinson's is an eirgi member and speaker, it's very probable the guards knew more about him than we do which is why they were so quick to make sure he wasn't a danger to anyone.
As previously said it's amazing how many protesters have Parkinson's or heart problems!!!

16-11-2015 03:06PM

johann johannson wrote: »

The man was hit 3 times by the garda. 3 times. Seriously, go watch the video. Carefully. Watch it. Or get someone to show you the three times he was struck.
Again, watch the video. He was and can be clearly seen having his walking stick removed by the gardai. It's a peaceful protest, he was well within hi right to be there.
Watch both angles, he was attempting to regain his balance.
Maryanne84, you seem to be having serious difficulty seeing what other people have seen in the video. Please have a look at both angles, that are on this thread, you can clearly see everything that has happened , as has been described.
He was up to nothing behind the garda, as you can clearly see from another angle, of which that video is available in this thread.

He was only hit once. Watch the video again.

NachoBusiness · 16-11-2015 03:12PM

Danger Fourpence wrote: »

Until I agree with your opinion, you mean.

No. Pay attention to what I am saying:

Watch it until such time as you can be specific about what your reasoning is for saying that the Garda was justified in beating a man with a baton that was at that precise moment (and many seconds before it) looking at the ground. A man the Garda had just pushed away and was in no immediate threat to him or anyone else. Without waffling now, can you explain why you feel the Garda was justified in his actions given those circumstances.

Danger Fourpence · 16-11-2015 03:14PM

NachoBusiness wrote: »

No. Pay attention to what I am saying:

Watch it until such time as you can be specific about what your reasoning is for saying that the Garda was justified in beating a man with a baton that was at that precise moment (and many seconds before it) looking at the ground. A man the Garda had just pushed away and was in no immediate threat to him or anyone else. Without waffling now, can you explain why you feel the Garda was justified in his actions given those circumstances.

Is this the same bald man with the goatee that was holding onto the Garda long before he produced the baton? The same guy that's encroaching on the Garda while he's making the arrest?

johann johannson · 16-11-2015 03:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

He was only hit once. Watch the video again.

Unfortunately Maryanne84, I cannot post the links or images as I'm a new user. I have them but can't post.

If someone wants to post for me, I can pm you the link. I'll even label them with big bright numbers so you know how to count them properly.

johann johannson · 16-11-2015 03:31PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

that poor man is sean doyle he ran for erigi in the last election and lost , he can often be seen throwing himself on the ground at IW and various protests
also regualry in court for assault and obstruction at these protests

That's fair enough if it's the truth, I can only go by what is shown in this video. Apologies if this is the case.

Garda hits man with baton NAMA

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