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Garda hits man with baton NAMA

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Comments

  • #512
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    If he had received another blow of that baton, that may not have been the case, that's the point. Yet another of which appear to have gone over your head.



    LOL! What facts have you posted?? Where's this so called evidence??

    First you came on the thread claiming the Garda was acting in "self defense". Then you claimed the man had "assaulted" the Garda and then you further claimed that he tried to "rob his notebook". All 100% waffle and the footage proves it. You haven't a screed to back any of your nonsense claims up and yet you have the audacity to talk about facts and evidence?


    the fiendish tool of the state stopped short of hurting him so ? that was nice of him eh ?

    err two words

    VIDEO EVIDENCE

    everyone else sees it , you dont


  • #513
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 46,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »
    Ah its getting clearer now....the bewildered ol lad who wasnt engaing with peaceful protest was associating with eirigi.lol:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:
    Indeed, the thugs whose political side were rejected by the electorate both in the Republic and NI.
    Still, they foolishly think they represent the views of normal people through their violent behaviour.

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  • #514
    SpaceSasqwatch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭SpaceSasqwatch


    kbannon wrote: »
    Indeed, the thugs whose political side were rejected by the electorate both in the Republic and NI.
    Still, they foolishly think they represent the views of normal people through their violent behaviour.

    yeah they're class 1 muppets.They had 2 local government reps...but that was only because they defected from sinn fein.They promptly lost their seats the next election.

    All their videos show them behaving like scumbags.


  • #515
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    the fiendish tool of the state stopped short of hurting him so ? that was nice of him eh ?

    Eh, he was stopped. He didn't choose to stop. There's a difference.
    err two words

    VIDEO EVIDENCE

    Every single time I have referred to aspect of the video I have either included an exact time or a screencap to back up my claims. So I ask you to do likewise. Please provide an exact time or a screencap of 1) where the man "assaults" the Garda and 2) where he tries to "steal his notebook". They are your claims. Back them up please.


  • #516
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,055 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Watched the video a couple of times and read a bit of the thread (but not all of it).

    Have to say, the thing that really lets me down about this video is that it's all real life. I wish it was a bit more like Hollywood or WWE, and that the Garda cleared the whole room out and sent people flying through windows and doors, etc. :D

    There should be a more aggressive stance taken by AGS. Where else can you roar at the Police, interfere in the arrest procedure, push and pull and then chant 'peaceful protest' as though it puts a magical forcefield around you and gives you immunity. Garda was dead right in my opinion. Hope he doesn't get a bollocking over it by higher ups.


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  • #517
    HamsterFace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 832 ✭✭✭HamsterFace


    Probably true that the garda over reacted.

    But its always good advice to put yourself in another's shoes.
    Ten minutes of pushing and jostling and unwillingness to cooperate with basic law enforcement requests that are a basis for a normal society. They did everything they could to provoke a reaction and they got what they wanted.

    My sympathy lies with the old man if he was hurt but moreso with the gardai who have to put up with this aggressive nonsense and I have nothing but contempt for the style of "protesting" that has emerged over the last couple of years.


  • #518
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    HamsterFace wrote: »
    My sympathy lies with the old man if he was hurt but moreso with the gardai who have to put up with this aggressive nonsense...

    The Garda was the one that got aggressive. He was standing and writing in his notepad and the man was attempting to speak with him. How is that him coping with aggressive protesting? He pushed the man and the girl. All they did was try to regain their balance. He then chose to beat an elderly man with a baton. You say you watched the video, but by the sounds of it, you watched it with your eyes closed.

    As for the shouting and roaring and just being asshats, yeah, not on, but it's hardly something which requires the use of baton. These people are trained in how to deal with unruly crowds and the rest of the force present showed that they can do it quite well. All bar that one thug who's actions have let down the good work of his colleagues, who clearly don't feel the need to beat people about the head for merely have the gall to use their arm to attempt to regain their balance after having being pushed over.


  • #519
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    Eh, he was stopped. He didn't choose to stop. There's a difference.



    Every single time I have referred to aspect of the video I have either included an exact time or a screencap to back up my claims. So I ask you to do likewise. Please provide an exact time or a screencap of 1) where the man "assaults" the Garda and 2) where he tries to "steal his notebook". They are your claims. Back them up please.

    You ve watched the video and cant see it is there really much point holding your hand through more of it ?

    aren't you worried that you don't see the same thing as everyone else ?


  • #520
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    You ve watched the video and cant see it is there really much point holding your hand through more of it ?

    So that's a no then. You can't back up your claims.
    ..aren't you worried that you don't see the same thing as everyone else ?

    First of all, quit speaking for everyone else. Secondly, nobody that said the Garda was assaulted by the man. or that he had attempted to steal his notebook, has provided so much as a smidgen of proof that he did either of these things. For the simple reason that there is none, as the footage quite clearly shows he did neither. Now quit hiding behind the notion that everyone sees something which I don't and back YOUR claims up.

    Again: at which specific point during the footage does the man assault the Garda and at which specific point during the footage does the man attempt to steal the Garda's notebook. I'll give you until midday tomorrow. Nite now.


  • #521
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    read back on the posts why dont you

    im not speaking for any one else, most of them seem quite able to speak for them self's

    your giving me till midday are you ? lol what are you going to to then lol report me to erigi or the freemen lol ?

    you really shouldnt feel you need to try to be threatening, after all its only boards pal


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  • #522
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    did he try to steal a note book out of a gardas hand ?

    No.


  • #523
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    johann johannson wrote: »
    Little CuChulainn, don't put words in my mouth. I watched the videos, numerous times, still by still, analysed them and then provided my feedback, of which I'm allowed to do, I haven't admitted anything.

    You said he was trying to help the arrested man up off the ground. This is interfering with an arrest whatever way you look at it. I get that it's hard to see your father get struck but that's what happens when you join a mob, surround a Garda and try to interfere with an arrest.


  • #524
    Clive Bisquette
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 266 ✭✭Clive Bisquette


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    You said he was trying to help the arrested man up off the ground. This is interfering with an arrest whatever way you look at it. I get that it's hard to see your father get struck but that's what happens when you join a mob, surround a Garda and try to interfere with an arrest.

    Excellent post my friend ...you got it spot on !


  • #525
    johann johannson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55 ✭✭johann johannson


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    You said he was trying to help the arrested man up off the ground. This is interfering with an arrest whatever way you look at it. I get that it's hard to see your father get struck but that's what happens when you join a mob, surround a Garda and try to interfere with an arrest.

    Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I understand you're a member of the force and want to stand by your colleague, but what he done was inexcusable.

    And again, please don't put words in my mouth.


  • #526
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    johann johannson wrote: »
    Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I understand you're a member of the force and want to stand by your colleague, but what he done was inexcusable.

    And again, please don't put words in my mouth.

    I haven't put words in your mouth.
    johann johannson wrote: »
    The first guy at the start was arrested. As he was doing so, he was dragged to the ground by the gardai.

    This is where the elderly man comes in. He was trying to help the arrested person to his feet.

    The guy was under arrest. He was on the ground because he is easier to control there. When a guy is under arrest you don't go near him. If you try and help him get to his feet after the Garda has put him on the ground then you are interfering with the arrest. It's a very simple concept. Which part of it do you not agree with?


  • #527
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    The guy was under arrest. He was on the ground because he is easier to control there. When a guy is under arrest you don't go near him. If you try and help him get to his feet after the Garda has put him on the ground then you are interfering with the arrest. It's a very simple concept. Which part of it do you not agree with?

    So what if he had been interfering with the arrest? Tell him to fcuk off. Arrest him if he doesn't do so. Either way though, this assault did not occur during a man's arrest. The man had been led away at this stage. The arrest was over. I told you this earlier in the thread when you were waffling on about their being a handcuffed man at the Garda's feet when he used his baton and how in your eyes that "justifies the use of force". You were wrong then and you're wrong now, no matter how many times you repeat it.

    Both the Garda and the man were standing up. The Garda was now writing in his notebook and the elderly man was attempting to speak with him. The Garda raises his left arm and shoves both him and the girl beside him away causing the girl to fall and the man to almost fall. The Garda was needlessly aggressive here. He goes on to shove the man another two times in an attempt to get him to stop using his arm to try and hold himself upright. The beating that followed was an unprovoked attack and completely unjustified.


  • #528
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    So what if he had been interfering with the arrest? Tell him to fcuk off. Arrest him if he doesn't do so. Either way though, this assault did not occur during a man's arrest. The man had been led away at this stage. The arrest was over. I told you this earlier in the thread when you were waffling on about their being a handcuffed man at the Garda's feet when he used his baton and how in your eyes that "justifies the use of force". You were wrong then and you're wrong now, no matter how many times you repeat it.

    There have been a number of people stating the man was helping the arrested man up, including someone who claims to be his son. Can you link the video and time stamp where it shows the man being lead away because the claim is contrary to what other people are saying.


  • #529
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭gctest50


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    So what if he had been interfering with the arrest? Tell him to fcuk off. .......

    that's it though isn't it ? he just kept coming back for more :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VI3RaVQE_0&feature=youtu.be&t=601


    he was kneeling down and seems to have decided to get stuck in :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VI3RaVQE_0&feature=youtu.be&t=588


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    So what if he had been interfering with the arrest? Tell him to fcuk off. Arrest him if he doesn't do so. Either way though, this assault did not occur during a man's arrest. The man had been led away at this stage. The arrest was over. I told you this earlier in the thread when you were waffling on about their being a handcuffed man at the Garda's feet when he used his baton and how in your eyes that "justifies the use of force". You were wrong then and you're wrong now, no matter how many times you repeat it.

    Both the Garda and the man were standing up. The Garda was now writing in his notebook and the elderly man was attempting to speak with him. The Garda raises his left arm and shoves both him and the girl beside him away causing the girl to fall and the man to almost fall. The Garda was needlessly aggressive here. He goes on to shove the man another two times in an attempt to get him to stop using his arm to try and hold himself upright. The beating that followed was an unprovoked attack and completely unjustified.


  • #530
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    gctest50 wrote: »
    that's it though isn't it ? he just kept coming back for more..

    Which is why I also said:
    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    ..this I could be persuaded was justifed.

    However, he made the situation worse by pushing him and the girl over, not better. It's quite clear that the girl is hanging onto the man and the only way he could not follow her to the ground was to grab the Garda's arm. At 10m29s into that video you see that the man is looking at the ground when the Garda turns and beats him with the baton. He caused these people to fall and then decides to beat one of them for daring to use his arm to steady himself.


  • #531
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    There have been a number of people stating the man was helping the arrested man up, including someone who claims to be his son. Can you link the video and time stamp where it shows the man being lead away because the claim is contrary to what other people are saying.

    I am not saying that the man is not still there. What I am saying is that he is being led away by two other Gardai at the moment he was attacked with the baton. The elderly man had been interfering with the arrest when he was kneeling on the ground, I don't dispute that, but he was not interfering with an arrest when he was merely speaking with the Garda / attempting to regain his balance after having being pushed. In the screenshots I already provided earlier you can clearly see the arrested man being led away by the Garda in the baseball cap. See the 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th screencaps for proof of that. Which again is contrary to statements you have made such as:
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Are you aware that there is a handcuffed man at the Gardas feet?


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  • #532
    Danger Fourpence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Danger Fourpence


    There's nobody in these videos speaking "with" the Gardai. They're speaking at them. These peaceful protests don't appear to be very peaceful at all. A guy was being arrested, there were multiple attempts to prevent this and in my opinion the Garda had to send a lesson before he was descended upon.

    The Gardai are sent out there on duty. While often I don't agree with some of the duties they are involved in, in this situation I back what he did fully. It's unfortunate someone had to get a sore face, but they were obstructing the course of justice.


  • #533
    HamsterFace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 832 ✭✭✭HamsterFace


    Danger Fourpence wrote: »
    There's nobody in these videos speaking "with" the Gardai. They're speaking at them. These peaceful protests don't appear to be very peaceful at all. A guy was being arrested, there were multiple attempts to prevent this and in my opinion the Garda had to send a lesson before he was descended upon.

    The Gardai are sent out there on duty. While often I don't agree with some of the duties they are involved in, in this situation I back what he did fully. It's unfortunate someone had to get a sore face, but they were obstructing the course of justice.

    And this is the whole issue at these protests. They deliberately confuse the situation by crowding gardai, pushing up against them and being uncooperative in the absolute extreme.
    It's an incredibly stressful situation to be in and there most likely will be some sort of reaction, then these protestors cry like premiership footballers.
    I can't respect them or their methods.


  • #534
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Danger Fourpence wrote: »
    A guy was being arrested, there were multiple attempts to prevent this and in my opinion the Garda had to send a lesson before he was descended upon.

    Would you come off it. The situation was under control. The man under arrest was being led away. The Garda then pushed a girl over and she grabbed the elderly man's arm and in turn he grabbed the Garda's. Stop making this out to be a Garda using his baton to contain a baying mob. That's not what happened.
    The Gardai are sent out there on duty. While often I don't agree with some of the duties they are involved in, in this situation I back what he did fully. It's unfortunate someone had to get a sore face, but they were obstructing the course of justice.

    Is speaking at a Garda "obstructing the course of justice"? Is trying to prevent yourself from falling on top of a girl who had just being pushed by a Garda "obstructing the course of justice"? Is standing behind a Garda and focusing your eyes on the ground "obstructing the course of justice"? If it is, then he should have been arrested, not beaten. I'm pretty sure down in Templeogue they don't instruct trainees to push people over that are talking at them and then beat them if they struggle to regain their balance afterwards.


  • #535
    Danger Fourpence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Danger Fourpence


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    Would you come off it. The situation was under control. The man under arrest was being led away. The Garda then pushed a girl over and she grabbed the elderly man's arm and in turn he grabbed the Garda's. Stop making this out to be a Garda using his baton to contain a baying mob. That's not what happened.



    Is speaking at a Garda "obstructing the course of justice"? Is trying to prevent yourself from falling on top of a girl who had just being pushed by a Garda "obstructing the course of justice"? Is standing behind a Garda and focusing your eyes on the ground "obstructing the course of justice"? If it is, then he should have been arrested, not beaten. I'm pretty sure down in Templeogue they don't instruct trainees to push people over that are talking at them and then beat them if they struggle to regain their balance afterwards.
    I could sympathise with you a little if you weren't approaching this from a black and white stance but you are. There's no middle ground for you here. the Garda is wrong the whole way through and that's that.

    Every single one of those people will say "Sure I wasn't doing anything" but you throw a body into a tank of piranha and each of them will say they only took a little bite. None of them are singularly at fault but as a collective they're at fault.

    I thought the Garda showed great restraint myself, given that they were massively outnumbered and were having amateur solicitors machine gunning questions at them. They remind me of soccer fans abusing a player for 90 minutes and then affecting faux indignation when they get some back.


  • #536
    Danger Fourpence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Danger Fourpence


    HamsterFace wrote: »
    And this is the whole issue at these protests. They deliberately confuse the situation by crowding gardai, pushing up against them and being uncooperative in the absolute extreme.
    It's an incredibly stressful situation to be in and there most likely will be some sort of reaction, then these protestors cry like premiership footballers.
    I can't respect them or their methods.

    I hadn't seen this post before I posted but it's bang on.


  • #537
    Yodeling Snake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭Yodeling Snake


    Karsini wrote: »
    These videos tend to only show one side of the story and are often uploaded to fuel a specific belief. You don't know what happened before the filming began.

    Who are the 125 tits who liked this post?


  • #538
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Danger Fourpence wrote: »
    I could sympathise with you a little if you weren't approaching this from a black and white stance but you are. There's no middle ground for you here. the Garda is wrong the whole way through and that's that.

    I have called these protesters ass hats and condemned their behavior. I have said the Garda could be somewhat justified in shoving the man away (not the girl though). I have also said that had he been arrested it would be a matter for the courts. Nothing however, justified that assault. It was vindictive and only served as an outlet for his own frustration and that is not something he should be doing in a Garda uniform. He was not under any immediate threat and neither was anyone else. What he did was unlawful and I hope he is prosecuted for it.


  • #539
    johann johannson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55 ✭✭johann johannson


    HamsterFace wrote: »
    And this is the whole issue at these protests. They deliberately confuse the situation by crowding gardai, pushing up against them and being uncooperative in the absolute extreme.
    It's an incredibly stressful situation to be in and there most likely will be some sort of reaction, then these protesters cry like premiership footballers.
    I can't respect them or their methods.

    And this is the whole issue at these protests? The main point of this protest was to block NAMA, not block the gardai from doing their job.

    I also may point out, as clearly seen in the video, before Little CuChulainn quotes me on it and declares it gospel, the protestors were sitting down when the elderly man with parkinson's disease was set upon, by gardai.

    The only issues to arise from this are (That I can see, again, before Little CuChulainn quotes me on it and declares it gospel):
    - An arrest for resisting arrest, which is ironic. 'What were you arrested for?' 'Resisting arrest.'
    - A elderly man, with parkinson's disease, who was knocked to the ground, by gardai, you can clearly see his dangerous weapon ( a walking stick) exposed as they tried to forcefully remove it from him.
    - A not-so-elderly man ( because 58 is not old, as many you have said, despite his medical condition), a 58 year old, struck 3 times by a garda, for attempting to regain his balance when shoved repeatedly into another person, a woman I may add, by the very same Garda who pushed him. Would it be fair to compare this woman to a 'professional footballer' too?

    It's funny how these issues here involve gardai, huh? I'm curious Little CuChulainn to get your thoughts on these incidents, that you seem to accept as normal behaviour by your colleagues. Or is it perfectly acceptable to lash out at someone because you don't like what they say? 'Hulk smash' is not an acceptable response to a query or when someone attempts to talk to you. Or at you, as you quote. Or down to you, as you seem fond of yourself.

    Unfortunately, the majority of you have an issue with this and seem to think it's the protestors against the gardai. It's not. It's the protestors against NAMA. You cry out about people being obstructed going about their daily business, obstructed from working'. How about the people who are on the receiving end of NAMA, those who were hit hardest during the recession and are paying for other's mistakes, and as a result, are obstructed from earning a decent living? That's who these protesters are fighting for. But because your job is safe, it's not an issue for you.

    Cry like premiership footballers? Are you quoting that because someone else further up this thread said it, or you incapable of thinking for yourself?

    I'd imagine 3 strikes of a baton to a 58 year old, is a lot more painful than what premiership footballers react to. I'd also imagine being repeatedly shoved by someone twice your size is a lot more force than what 'premiership footballers' have to contend with. And, I'd also imagine that a 58 year old and a 65+ year old ( I'm sorry, I'm unsure what the elderly man with parkinson's disease age is, albeit mynameJeff and Little CuChulainn with quote me on this until the thread finishes) would not be on a 'premiership footballers' pitch, let alone a sunday league pitch. Comparing these people to trained athletes is complete bullsh*t and you know it. Stop making excuses, watch the video, watch it closely, watch it from all available angles and have a rethink. Examine it and then come back with a valid argument to support what you say, rather than follow the herd. That's how discussions work, or would you rather take the baton out and strike me 3 times too?

    To say the Gardai were outnumbered is bullsh*t also. The protesters were there well before the gardai arrived. The entire meeting had been disbanded well before the gardai had arrived. The gardai knew exactly how many were there. And, as you quote that this is typical behaviour of 'mob protesters', then why didn't the gardai have the same view as you and arrive up in greater numbers?

    More gardai = more batons = more gardai losing their cool = more beatings of people who DARE to stand up for what they believe in. Is this what you want?
    HamsterFace wrote: »
    They remind me of soccer fans abusing a player for 90 minutes and then affecting faux indignation when they get some back
    If only that Garda showed the same restraint as 'professional footballers' are capable of, then we wouldn't be in this sh*t situation.

    Quote me or not, I couldn't give a sh*t. But some of you seriously need to reevaluate your opinions, as I for one would not be happy to have my professional organisation represented by this type of behaviour.


  • #540
    Danger Fourpence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Danger Fourpence


    johann johannson wrote: »

    - A elderly man, with parkinson's disease,

    The Garda isn't a Cyberdyne Systems Model 101 Series 800 Terminator. He can't gather this information when approached from behind.


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  • #541
    Danger Fourpence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Danger Fourpence


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    I have called these protesters ass hats and condemned their behavior. I have said the Garda could be somewhat justified in shoving the man away (not the girl though). I have also said that had he been arrested it would be a matter for the courts. Nothing however, justified that assault. It was vindictive and only served as an outlet for his own frustration and that is not something he should be doing in a Garda uniform. He was not under any immediate threat and neither was anyone else. What he did was unlawful and I hope he is prosecuted for it.

    You have the benefit of a video to decide whether or not he was under threat. He was in the middle of a crowd, hostile to his presence and was approached from behind. You cannot say how he felt at that moment he decided to take out his baton.


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