Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

DubVelo · 15-11-2015 12:45PM

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Some of the rhetoric I have heard locally is extremely racist and misinformed.

You should hear the other side.

Wurzelbert · 15-11-2015 12:46PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but there's some weird reporting going on re: the shootings
https://twitter.com/PZbooks/status/664529154344419329

The date in this tweet is 11 Nov, 2 days before the shootings took place
Maybe it's just a rare error on twitters part. Or maybe not.

weird, looks like some technical error to me…

Royal Legend · 15-11-2015 12:49PM

kleefarr wrote: »

Posted by Isobel Bowdery on facebook...

you never think it will happen to you. It was just a friday night at a rock show. the atmosphere was so happy and everyone was dancing and smiling. and then when the men came through the front entrance and began the shooting, we naiively believed it was all part of the show. It wasn't just a terrorist attack, it was a massacre. Dozens of people were shot right infront of me. Pools of blood filled the floor. Cries of grown men who held their girlfriends dead bodies pierced the small music venue. Futures demolished, families heartbroken. in an instant. Shocked and alone, I pretended to be dead for over an hour, lying among people who could see their loved ones motionless.. Holding my breath, trying to not move, not cry - not giving those men the fear they longed to see. I was incredibly lucky to survive. But so many didn't. The people who had been there for the exact same reasons as I - to have a fun friday night were innocent. This world is cruel. And acts like this are suppose to highlight the depravity of humans and the images of those men circuling us like vultures will haunt me for the rest of my life. The way they meticoulsy aimed at shot people around the standing area i was in the centre of without any consideration for human life. It didn't feel real. i expected any moment for someone to say it was just a nightmare. But being a survivor of this horror lets me able to shed light on the heroes. To the man who reassured me and put his life on line to try and cover my brain whilst i whimpered, to the couple whose last words of love kept me believing the good in the world, to the police who succeded in rescuing hundreds of people, to the complete strangers who picked me up from the road and consoled me during the 45 minutes I truly believed the boy i loved was dead, to the injured man who i had mistaken for him and then on my recognition that he was not Amaury, held me and told me everything was going to be fine despite being all alone and scared himself, to the woman who opened her doors to the survivors, to the friend who offered me shelter and went out to buy new clothes so i wouldnt have to wear this blood stained top, to all of you who have sent caring messages of support - you make me believe this world has the potential to be better. to never let this happen again. but most of this is to the 80 people who were murdered inside that venue, who weren't as lucky, who didnt get to wake up today and to all the pain that their friends and families are going through. I am so sorry. There's nothing that will fix the pain. I feel priviledged to be there for their last breaths. And truly beliving that I would join them, I promise that their last thoughts were not on the animals who caused all this. It was thinking of the people they loved. As i lay down in the blood of strangers and waiting for my bullet to end my mere 22 years, I envisioned every face that I have ever loved and whispered I love you. over and over again. reflecting on the highlights of my life. Wishing that those i love knew just how much, wishing that they knew that no matter what happened to me, to keep belieivng in the good in people. to not let those men win. Last night, the lives of many were forever changed and it is up to us to be better people. to live lives that the innocent victims of this tragedy dreamt about but sadly will now never be able to fulfil. RIP angels. You will never be forgotten.

There is a photo of a top with blood on it. Must have been awful.

Fair Play to her for putting such a terrifying experience into words, hope that it helps her and others in their process of healing

inforfun · 15-11-2015 12:51PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

Never been explained.....how come a suicide bomber was detected attempting to enter Stade de France and appears to have been allowed to walk away unchallenged. Or did the guy blow himself up at the same time as he was refused entry. Was he attempting to enter the ground 20 minutes after the game started? I don't get it

He arrived, with ticket, 15 mins after kick off.
Security discovered he was wearing a bomb vest.

The ****er ran away and detonated the bomb after which 2 others did the same thing. (acc to Dutch newspaper reports)

Clearly the plan was to have the bomb go off inside, killing a lot already but in the resulting panic, many others would have been killed as well. And the 2 others were most likely just waiting for enough people to get out of the stadium and do their thing.

Laois_Man · 15-11-2015 12:51PM

Carlee Tart Wedding wrote: »

I think he just backed away from the turnstile and set it off there n then, so reports said.

I'm sure it will all become clearer in time.

Wasn't the cleverest way of getting in undetected was it - waiting til the game was well on and the busyness at the turnstiles was calmed down.

JustTheOne · 15-11-2015 12:53PM

Football matches now will be a huge nightmare all over Europe now.

Delays and paranoia especially with players.

Its only beginning.

Ghost Train · 15-11-2015 12:54PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but there's some weird reporting going on re: the shootings
https://twitter.com/PZbooks/status/664529154344419329

The date in this tweet is 11 Nov, 2 days before the shootings took place
Maybe it's just a rare error on twitters part. Or maybe not.

just a coincidence I think, explained here
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3su05j/bot_on_twitter_posts_about_paris_attack_on_nov/cx0fxve

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2015 12:55PM

stefanovich wrote: »

So your solution is to continue allowing unchecked immigration from Syria in case Muslims in Europe get offended and blow themselves up?

I'll remind you that it takes very little to offend. Burger king ice cream packaging for instance.

Where did I say anything about allowing unchecked immigration? If fact - where is this 'unchecked immigration' happening?

Everyone applying for refugee status is checked. They are fingerprinted etc so I don't know why you are talking like it's a case of 'Just come on it, leave the door open - no, no - you don't need to supply any information at all all we trust you.'
Remember those big ships the Greek government sent to islands like Kos and Lesvos? - Those were to there to do the 'checking'. If a person isn't 'checked' and formally granted status they are not a refugee - that are an illegal immigrant (also called 'undocumented' when referring to the Illegal Irish the the U.S).

Of course people should be bloody well checked!

Getting worked up about a Burger Kind Wrapper? Golly Gosh - Christians would never get offended by something as silly as a bit of packaging *coff* starbucksredcup *coff*

What I am discussing is how we are playing into ISIS hands regarding propoghanda - any thoughts on how we win that battle?

take everything · 15-11-2015 12:55PM

There's some uncertainty about the passport now.

I continually struggle to understand what drives their ideology.
"Jews and intellectuals" among others are the enemy.

The anti-Jewish thing is just hatred/racism/the usual Great Satan trope but intellectuals? What is that about?

That's like being anti-humanity.
What the fcuk is wrong with intellect.

I'm continually fascinated by what drives their hatred.

It's not massively dissimilar to what drives mass shootings in the US. Usually these guys (and it's nearly always guys), "beta" guys for want of a better term, are powerless and frustrated with a complex about women (in the case of Daesh these headbangers are obsessed with sex/women and its/their control seemingly).

I'm reading Isis: State of Terror to try to understand it more. It's baffling.

Canadel · 15-11-2015 12:58PM

JustTheOne wrote: »

Football matches now will be a huge nightmare all over Europe now.

Delays and paranoia especially with players.

Its only beginning.

Not so sure on that. Terror works most effectively when it's unexpected. It's why terrorism never wins. Normality and complacency always wins. Society soldiers on.

CB19Kevo · 15-11-2015 12:59PM

JustTheOne wrote: »

Football matches now will be a huge nightmare all over Europe now.

Delays and paranoia especially with players.

Its only beginning.

Yeah security has to be increased for any large events,No excuse really. Should be made as efficient as possible though,These terrorists want to change our way of life and we should resist against that.

timmyntc · 15-11-2015 01:00PM

Ghost Train wrote: »

just a coincidence I think, explained here
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3su05j/bot_on_twitter_posts_about_paris_attack_on_nov/cx0fxve

Suppose that makes sense yeah, whats even stranger however is the account getting suspended in the last 5 mins or so:pac:

stefanovich · 15-11-2015 01:01PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Everyone applying for refugee status is checked.

They log their name, could be false who knows. Then they disappear into Europe. Doesn't seem like much of a check to me.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What I am discussing is how we are playing into ISIS hands regarding propoghanda - any thoughts on how we win that battle?

Just think about the sort of animal that would actually fall for ISIS propaganda. Videos where peoples heads are severed with blunt knives is not something any non psychopath would ever be encouraged by.

DubVelo · 15-11-2015 01:02PM

take everything wrote: »

The anti-Jewish thing is just hatred/racism/the usual Great Satan trope but intellectuals? What is that about?

That's like being anti-humanity.
What the fcuk is wrong with intellect.

I don't get it either but it's not the first anti-intellectual movement. Chinese 'Cultural Revolution' for example.

Easy target for the disaffected masses maybe? The minority elite? The 1% ?

namloc1980 · 15-11-2015 01:03PM

DubVelo wrote: »

My god. The woman really is a nutter isn't she. A bloody attack claimed by 'Islamic State' yet it has nothing to do with Islam!?

And the preceding comment is:

!!!!!

The woman should be ashamed of herself, as ashamed as Mick whatshisface should be.

The pandering and fear of offending anyone is out of control in this country. You can't question the open doors refugee policy or your labelled a racist. Be critical of Islam and your labelled a sectarian xenophobe. That leads to politicians coming out with stuff like "religion of peace". nice safe comments that won't offend anyone.

Canadel · 15-11-2015 01:03PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Just think about the sort of animal that would actually fall for ISIS propaganda. Videos where peoples heads are severed with blunt knives is not something any non psychopath would ever be encouraged by.

Slightly harsh tbh. Most of us at one stage or another have considered signing up.

JCX BXC · 15-11-2015 01:03PM

Jesus I thought by TODAY the Looney theories would have receded a bit and we could have less cluttered thread!

Laois_Man · 15-11-2015 01:04PM

JustTheOne wrote: »

Football matches now will be a huge nightmare all over Europe now.

Delays and paranoia especially with players.

Its only beginning.

That's something I was saying even before Friday
It's a lot easier to kill masses of people at a Premier League or international soccer match than people are admitting.
You see small pockets of supporters have the ability to hire small planes to drag lettering behind and do a fly over during the game displaying a message. It's not at all far-fetched that one of those planes could crash into a stand resulting in thousands of casualties.. These planes should not be allowed and perhaps even a fighter jet needs to be hovering over every Premier League, French League, Spanish League etc stadium every weekend (same with concerts at Wembley or wherever) because ISIS are getting bolder and they're going to be looking at tactics for a 9/11 scale event.

DubVelo · 15-11-2015 01:05PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

nice safe comments that won't offend anyone.

****ing offends me!

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2015 01:06PM

acb121 wrote: »

Lots of people have had messages from God.

The thing is, only some of them get messages from God given them special sexual dispensations and messages from God telling them that they can have sex where the rules that apply to everybody else do not apply to them and God has given them special dispensations for their sexual urges.

So in this instance, Muhammed is like Peter Sutcliffe, David Koresh, Charles Manson and other men who God spoke to and told them they were allowed to follow their unique sexual urges as God had made allowances for them.

It's in the Islamic texts.

Aisha, one of Muhammed's 11 wives ( in addition to his 4 sex slaves ), the one who he married at 6 and penetrated at 9 when he was aged 53 actually challenged him on it.

Aisha challenges Muhammed. He goes away. Lo and behold doesn't Allah speak to him, and tell him that the rule that he had given earlier was only for the rest of the Muslims, and Mohammed was allowed to do what he wanted.

Apparently Allah spoke to Muhammed and told him that he could have sex as the rules for the other Muslims did not apply to Muhammed, and Allah had made special rules for Muhammed.

In an echo of " The Emperors New Clothes ", Muhammed's child wife and sexual "partner" spoke the truth that only children can speak when should openly questioned why it was that Allah was so quick to make new rules for Mohammed whenever such issues arose.

it's all in the Islamic scripts.

As reprehensible as marrying and consummating a marriage to a child is, stop acting like Muhammad was the only one to justify your hatred of contemporary Muslims.

For example - It was the norm for the rulers of Byzantium - who were Christian.

Take Agnes-Anna of France,wife of Alexius II and Andronicus I of the Comneni Dynasty for example

According to William of Tyre, Agnes was only eight on her arrival at Constantinople, while Alexius was thirteen; in fact Alexius was born on 14 September 1169. Child brides, whether Byzantines or foreign princesses, were the norm rather than the exception, especially from the late twelfth century. Irene Ducaena, wife of Alexius I Comnenus, was twelve at her marriage, and empress before she was fifteen; the Byzantine princess Theodora, Manuel's niece, was in her thirteenth year when she married Baldwin III of Jerusalem; and Margaret-Maria of Hungary married Isaac II Angelus at the age of nine. Agnes's age, then, was not unusual, especially as it was customary for young engaged couples in Constantinople to be brought up together in the house of the socially superior partner.

http://www.roman-emperors.org/aggiefran.htm

I can find you hundreds and hundred more examples for the non-Muslim world if you like or you could stop banging that drum.

Custardpi · 15-11-2015 01:07PM

The difference being of course is that Mohammed is still held up as being the perfect example to mankind.

timmyntc · 15-11-2015 01:08PM

DubVelo wrote: »

I don't get it either but it's not the first anti-intellectual movement. Chinese 'Cultural Revolution' for example.

Easy target for the disaffected masses maybe? The minority elite? The 1% ?

Most muslims have traditional values and are very stuck in their ways, and some see intellectuals and people who push for progress as threats to their ways of life. Personal freedoms in particular freedom of speech (including freedom to insult a religion) are not values held by a lot of muslims. Thing's like women's rights too are frowned upon in Islam.

Nodin · 15-11-2015 01:09PM

Carnacalla wrote: »

Jesus I thought by TODAY the Looney theories would have receded a bit and we could have less cluttered thread!

Is this your native optimism at work, or something to do with herbs and high THC levels?

stefanovich · 15-11-2015 01:10PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I can find you hundreds and hundred more examples for the non-Muslim world if you like or you could stop banging that drum.

Difference is they are still marrying children.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28250471

Arne_Saknussem · 15-11-2015 01:12PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

That's something I was saying even before Friday
It's a lot easier to kill masses of people at a Premier League or international soccer match than people are admitting.
You see small pockets of supporters have the ability to hire small planes to drag lettering behind and do a fly over during the game displaying a message. It's not at all far-fetched that one of those planes could crash into a stand resulting in thousands of casualties.. These planes should not be allowed and perhaps even a fighter jet needs to be hovering over every Premier League, French League, Spanish League etc stadium every weekend (same with concerts at Wembley or wherever) because ISIS are getting bolder and they're going to be looking at tactics for a 9/11 scale event.

Not sure how feasible that would be.

Sunflower 27 · 15-11-2015 01:15PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Where did I say anything about allowing unchecked immigration? If fact - where is this 'unchecked immigration' happening?

Everyone applying for refugee status is checked. They are fingerprinted etc so I don't know why you are talking like it's a case of 'Just come on it, leave the door open - no, no - you don't need to supply any information at all all we trust you.'
Remember those big ships the Greek government sent to islands like Kos and Lesvos? - Those were to there to do the 'checking'. If a person isn't 'checked' and formally granted status they are not a refugee - that are an illegal immigrant (also called 'undocumented' when referring to the Illegal Irish the the U.S).

Of course people should be bloody well checked!

Getting worked up about a Burger Kind Wrapper? Golly Gosh - Christians would never get offended by something as silly as a bit of packaging *coff* starbucksredcup *coff*

What I am discussing is how we are playing into ISIS hands regarding propoghanda - any thoughts on how we win that battle?

Exactly. There is all this focus on 'the refugees' and yet it has been revealed that one of the terrorists killed in Paris was a French citizen, Algerian (I think) background and known to police.

ISIS have infiltrated many European countries and did so long before the refugee crisis. The problem was the West not doing anything to stop them 5 years ago.

Because they don't value their own lives, this enemy is going to be very difficult to stamp out.

whatismyname · 15-11-2015 01:17PM

The strangeness of Kay Burley...

https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/665807478060392448

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2015 01:18PM

stefanovich wrote: »

They log their name, could be false who knows. Then they disappear into Europe. Doesn't seem like much of a check to me.

Just think about the sort of animal that would actually fall for ISIS propaganda. Videos where peoples heads are severed with blunt knives is not something any non psychopath would ever be encouraged by.

What kind of checks do you want?

When I arrive in a foreign destination I wave my passport, sometimes they look at it for a second or two - although to be fair when I was arriving in Spain from Tangiers I did have to fill out a form declaring I am the person my passport says I am. Is that too lax do you think? I could be anyone like.

What kind of checks do you want to see in place?

Hmmmm... dismissing people as animals and psychos is an interesting tactic to counter ISIS propaganda but I can't help but feel it would be counter-productive.

Also it's unfair to animals who do not tend to be psychotic - that honour is generally reserved for humans.

gormdubhgorm · 15-11-2015 01:19PM

fr336 wrote: »

You know the difference between year and day, right? The difference between accidents and concentrated, coldblooded, terrorising murder?

My point obviously has to be spelt out death by installments gets ignored. I know which is a greater threat to me and it is not ISIS!

Wibbs · 15-11-2015 01:21PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As reprehensible as marrying and consummating a marriage to a child is, stop acting like Muhammad was the only one to justify your hatred of contemporary Muslims.

For example - It was the norm for the rulers of Byzantium - who were Christian.

Take Agnes-Anna of France,wife of Alexius II and Andronicus I of the Comneni Dynasty for example

Indeed, but you missed bolding something important Agnes was only eight on her arrival at Constantinople, while Alexius was thirteen. Her husband wasn't in his mid fifties.

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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