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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #3692
    acb121
    Closed Accounts Posts: 399 ✭✭acb121


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    There's so much wrong about this post it's actually difficult to respond to but Muhammad was persecuted, spit on and had his life threatened when we started to spread his message. His wars with Mecca wee about survival not conquest.

    As for Aisha, people like to call Muhammad a pedo for consummating his marriage with a 9 - 12 year old girl but in the society and culture at the time female marriage at such a young age was normal, common even for political leaders. In western Europe a thousand years later Mary Queen of Scots was betrothed to Edward VI of England at six months old on the understanding that she would marry at 10. In Romeo and Juliet, Juliet's parents are worried she isn't married and she's not getting any younger, she's 13 and there's nothing to suggest contemporary audiences saw anything strange about this.

    Pleas have been criticising Muhammad or all kinds of things, real and imaginary for centuries but criticism for his marriage has only come up in the last century when attitudes started to change.

    Ah, that's all lovely and morally equivalent.

    Except that in the year 2015, nobody in Europe is justifying marrying or having sex with children because of a medieval monarch.

    Take away Aisha and Mohommed certainly did like his sex didn't he ? Servicing all 11 wives in a single night. Never mind his 4 rape slaves, which was justified on the basis that they were " unbelievers ".

    None of that causing any problems today is it ? Just like the European's, Islam no longer thinks its OK to rape women because they are unbelievers. It will be a comfort to women worldwide, from the Yahdzis of Syria to the young girls of Northern English mill towns.


  • #3693
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    stefanovich wrote: »
    They are not stupid enough to think we would actually close the borders to refugees. As much as it pains me to acknowledge this fact. Europe is full of sheep welcoming the wolves in.

    Poland has already stopped.

    Obviously if it turns out to be confirmed refugee infiltration there will at minimum be heighten security and background checks.


  • #3694
    acb121
    Closed Accounts Posts: 399 ✭✭acb121


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    There's so much wrong about this post it's actually difficult to respond to but Muhammad was persecuted, spit on and had his life threatened when we started to spread his message. His wars with Mecca wee about survival not conquest.

    Ah, poor, poor Muhammed, the poor crater.

    Muhammed was criticised when he spread his message ?

    You didn't tell us the rest though.

    I suppose, like Jesus, Mohammed turned the other cheek ?

    No, Muhammed had people who criticised his message murdered and assassinted.

    Muhammed had people who wrote poetry criticising his message murdered.

    You forgot that bit.


  • #3695
    fryup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    did Muhammed really exist or is he just legend?


  • #3696
    DubVelo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 543 ✭✭✭DubVelo


    Custardpi wrote: »
    I see Joan Burton has weighed in with not at all clichéd words of wisdom.



    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/mick-wallace-criticised-over-tweet-about-paris-attacks-1.2430575

    Fair enough not wanting to tar all with the same brush but the "religion of peace" line has become a joke at this point, used more sarcastically than in earnest.

    My god. The woman really is a nutter isn't she. A bloody attack claimed by 'Islamic State' yet it has nothing to do with Islam!?

    And the preceding comment is:
    Tánaiste Joan Burton said it was not appropriate to have “backhanded ways of defending terrorism”

    !!!!!

    The woman should be ashamed of herself, as ashamed as Mick whatshisface should be.


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  • #3697
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    fryup wrote: »
    did Muhammed really exist or is he just legend?

    He existed. The real question is why anyone would actually think he got messages from "God" aka Allah.


  • #3698
    acb121
    Closed Accounts Posts: 399 ✭✭acb121


    fryup wrote: »
    did Muhammed really exist or is he just legend?

    He did.

    Unfortunately.

    The world would be a better place if he had never been born.


  • #3699
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    acb121 wrote: »
    Ah, poor, poor Muhammed, the poor crater.

    Muhammed was criticised when he spread his message ?

    You didn't tell us the rest though.

    I suppose, like Jesus, Mohammed turned the other cheek ?

    No, Muhammed had people who criticised his message murdered and assassinted.

    Muhammed had people who wrote poetry criticising his message murdered.

    You forgot that bit.

    Allah must have been having a bad day when "he" picked him , timeless model of humanity we was not. One would have thought that a deity would know that even a semi educated person in the 21st C not raised on this garbage would realise he was a horrible person.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #3700
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    stefanovich wrote: »
    They are not stupid enough to think we would actually close the borders to refugees. As much as it pains me to acknowledge this fact. Europe is full of sheep welcoming the wolves in.

    'Sheep watching the wolves' - such dramatic language.
    Would I be correct in saying you, personally, would prefer the borders were closed?

    You certainly aren't alone in that and I wouldn't be at all surprised if most of them were. This would create one or two bottle necks in countries where they do not have the financial capacity to deal with the situation and geographically it is impossible to seal themselves off (like Greece) - this just changes the ISIS propaganda script a tiny bit 'The Christians will hold you in pens like pigs or have you sleep on the street like a dog - this is what they think of Muslim lives. Die for us and you will go to Paradise - run from us and you will die on the streets of Europe like a dog.' (They are very fond of the 'like a dog' analogy).

    I don't think their leadership is stupid - far from it. I think they are calculated and cunning and masters at propaganda. We 'Christians' in the West are not their primary propaganda target - disaffected Muslim youth are. They want to feed their sense of 'otherness', of feeling unwelcome and unwanted. Create a situation where Azziz or Nusret is watching how Fortress Europe seems to care little for the fate of thousand of Muslims, how 'Christians' look with suspicion on their Muslim neighbours, hear fascists cries for expulsion of all Muslims echoed by politicians and work colleagues and strangers in the street and all the while ISIS whispers sweet promises or revenge and glory.

    Stupid is playing by their game plan which is what we are doing. They know our game plan - drones, bombs, special advisers - it the same old Cold War Plan with some added tech but this isn't the same situation as U.S. Vs U.S.S.R (although there are still tendrils of that adding to the situation) - this is a different kind of war and we haven't a bulls notion of how to deal with it because we cannot move beyond our traditional 'bomb it' way of thinkig about conflict 'resolution'.

    ISIS is a hydra- bombing it makes more heads. We need to starve it.


  • #3701
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    fryup wrote: »
    did Muhammed really exist or is he just legend?

    Historically speaking, yes he did. There's considerably more evidence for the existence of Muhammed than Jesus.


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  • #3702
    whatever_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 182 ✭✭whatever_


    acb121 wrote: »
    150 dead, hundreds injured and the politically correct BBC still cannot bring itself to use the word " terrorist ", never mind Islam.

    Militants is the soothing non judgemental word they use, less they offend anyone.

    Rubbish ! You read one report and extrapolate to make a rash generalisation about the whole of the BBC. This is the sort of subjective, lazy thinking that breeds extremism.

    Try reading their main page http://www.bbc.com/news


  • #3703
    Baggy Trousers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭Baggy Trousers


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Q1 Why did several people murder many French people in Paris last night and subsequently commit suicide?
    A. They believe it is their duty to an imaginary person to do so to promote belief in that imaginary person
    Q2. Why above?
    A. They are influenced by the fictional stories of a man that lived 1500 years ago
    Q3. Why above?
    A. They are the product of a backward and unevolved culture which is lagging the rest of the world by over 500 years
    Q4. Why above?
    A. That culture has its roots in a part of the world that was historically very poor and without natural resources for its general population to have the resources to be educated beyond superstition
    Q5. Why above?
    A. Its a desert.

    Excellent Lucretia! Anyone else?

    I often find if anyone cannot go down 2 levels of Why, they have a very shallow understanding of the problem.


  • #3704
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    acb121 wrote: »
    My heart bleeds for them.

    Britain has millions of immigrants, from every country on every continent.

    The immigrants in Britain who are "victims" of ghettoisation and poverty are Somalians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.

    Somalians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, pro-rata, cost the UK more in social housing and all manner of benefits than any other communities. They are a net drain on society.

    They have had the SAME CHANCE as the Indians, the Chinese, the Sri Lankans, the Kenyan Asians, the Nigerians, the Irish, the Polish, various Eastern Europeans, all the other major immigrant groups. They have had the SAME TIME that other communities have had to stand on their own two feet.

    In fact, they had far longer than the Poles.

    What do Somalians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have in common ?

    Give you a clue, it begins with I.


    acb121 wrote: »
    This is the problem.

    " At it's foundation " BY ITS OWN FOUNDER, Mohommed, it was a war mongering cult, raping, pillaging, murdering, persecuting, paedophiling it's way across the Middle East.

    Most wishy washy Europeans use their childhood Christianity that they have left behind, save for Christmas and Weddings, as their reference point to Islam.

    They think that Islam is simply like Christianity and Mohommed is simply like Jesus. All religions are the same, they soothe on messageboards.

    Mohammed himself, personally led his followers in beheading 900 jews in a single afternoon. Perhaps he even used one of his 8 swords, including his personal favourite, " The Cleaver Of Necks ".

    Mohammed himself, personally instructed his followers to rape women who were " unbelievers " and if they felt like it, kidnap them and hold them captive for the single purpose of rape when they felt like using a women for their own self gratification. Mohammed himself personally owned 4 women for that purpose, in addition to his 11 wives, which included one he married at 6 and penetrated when she reached the age of 9 and he was 53.

    Mohammed himself demanded and instructed that anyone who criticised him should be murdered, and he ordered the murder of about 50 of his critics during his lifetime, including poets and artists.

    Mohommed himself ordered attacks and robberies on travelling merchants to steal their wares.

    The problem with folk is they are deluded into thinking that Mohommed was some sort of baby Jesus character that they learnt about in primary school.

    You cannot even state the above, because folk get offended.

    They don't want to hear the facts.

    They just want to parrot this politically correct line that all religions are the same, and some bad people must be twisting Islam.

    You will get banned and silenced by people just for stating the above. Lad I know, got very angry when I told him that technically, 53 year old Mohammed penetrating a 9 year old was a child ( and why according to Islam's own texts she was a child rather than an adult ) and told me " you can't say that ". Knows nothing whatsoever about Islam, and does not want to know, because it might upset his politically correct worldview.

    People trot out platitudes about religion and they don't have a clue what they are talking about.
    acb121 wrote: »
    Gawd.

    It must be lovely in Liberal lala land.

    The Koran, Q'ran, Quran, is NOT OUTDATED.

    It is the UNCHANGEABLE, LITERAL word of GOD for ALL TIME.

    It is NOT OUTDATED because it cannot be " updated ".

    So, I'm afraid those normal every day good muslims will be reading about killing the unbeliever for as long as the Koran exists.

    The bit about killing jews is not a " parable ".

    Mohammed himself, you know, Islam's version of Jesus, personally led his followers in beheading 900 jews in a single afternoon. Perhaps he even used one of his 8 swords, including his favourite, " The Cleaver Of Necks ". ( What was Jesus's favourite sword called ? )

    Mohammed himself, , you know, Islam's version of Jesus, personally instructed his followers to rape women who were " unbelievers " and if they felt like it, kidnap them and hold them captive for the single purpose of rape when they felt like using a women for their own self gratification. Mohammed himself personally owned 4 women for that purpose.,

    Mohammed himself, you know, Islam;s version of Jesus, demanded and instructed that anyone who criticised him should be murdered, and he ordered the murder of about 50 of his critics during his lifetime, including poets and artists. And you don't get why Charlie Hebdo happened.

    You are deluded and uniformed and therefore part of the problem with your talk of ordinary " moderate " Islam.
    acb121 wrote: »
    This is correct.

    But I am sick of uninformed, uneducated, liberal fools, just assuming that Mohammed is just like Jesus, but for Muslims.

    When we have European liberal fools talking about the Koran being " outdated ", we have a problem. Becuase they don't have a clue what they are talking about, but feel entitled to pontificate from their wishy, wahsy perspective in the name of " all cultures are equal ".

    I think that Islam is a little more enthusiastic about the convert or destroy bit than these other religious.

    The proof is in the pudding.


    CHRIST - we get it, you don't like Islam, or anyone that is tolerant of people that follow that faith.

    Give it a rest.


  • #3705
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    'Sheep watching the wolves' - such dramatic language.
    Would I be correct in saying you, personally, would prefer the borders were closed?

    You certainly aren't alone in that and I wouldn't be at all surprised if most of them were. This would create one or two bottle necks in countries where they do not have the financial capacity to deal with the situation and geographically it is impossible to seal themselves off (like Greece) - this just changes the ISIS propaganda script a tiny bit 'The Christians will hold you in pens like pigs or have you sleep on the street like a dog - this is what they think of Muslim lives. Die for us and you will go to Paradise - run from us and you will die on the streets of Europe like a dog.' (They are very fond of the 'like a dog' analogy).

    I don't think their leadership is stupid - far from it. I think they are calculated and cunning and masters at propaganda. We 'Christians' in the West are not their primary propaganda target - disaffected Muslim youth are. They want to feed their sense of 'otherness', of feeling unwelcome and unwanted. Create a situation where Azziz or Nusret is watching how Fortress Europe seems to care little for the fate of thousand of Muslims, how 'Christians' look with suspicion on their Muslim neighbours, hear fascists cries for expulsion of all Muslims echoed by politicians and work colleagues and strangers in the street and all the while ISIS whispers sweet promises or revenge and glory.

    Stupid is playing by their game plan which is what we are doing. They know our game plan - drones, bombs, special advisers - it the same old Cold War Plan with some added tech but this isn't the same situation as U.S. Vs U.S.S.R (although there are still tendrils of that adding to the situation) - this is a different kind of war and we haven't a bulls notion of how to deal with it because we cannot move beyond our traditional 'bomb it' way of thinkig about conflict 'resolution'.

    ISIS is a hydra- bombing it makes more heads. We need to starve it.
    So your solution is to continue allowing unchecked immigration from Syria in case Muslims in Europe get offended and blow themselves up?

    I'll remind you that it takes very little to offend. Burger king ice cream packaging for instance.


  • #3706
    DubVelo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 543 ✭✭✭DubVelo


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    ISIS is a hydra- bombing it makes more heads. We need to starve it.

    How's that going to work then?

    Please don't say 'greater tolerance' because surely our blind tolerance is what allowed this situation to ferment in the first place.


  • #3707
    Baggy Trousers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭Baggy Trousers


    Carlee Tart Wedding wrote: »
    They don't want Europe to be a safe haven for people they're terrorising. They want the borders closed and are loving the spreading of xenophobia. They want a war.

    I cant argue with this. It's working too. Some of the rhetoric I have heard locally is extremely racist and misinformed.


  • #3708
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Just to cover the whole pedophile Muhammed thing, let's just remember that was extremely typical across the entire region in those days, ranging from the Jews to the Christians, but also ranged over to Asia/India and even in North America.

    It's typically associated with a shorter expected lifespan of people. In terms of Christianity itself, there is an extremely high chance that Mary would also have been aged between 9 and 12 years old.

    Don't get me wrong, Muhammed was a warrior and did lead his people on a lot of wars, but jumping to the pedophile thing is just overkill and frankly uncalled for.

    Those who continue to marry girls of such an age these days are frankly completely in the wrong.

    Let's also keep in mind that out of some 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide, some 0.3% are actually associated with IS.


  • #3709
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    acb121 wrote: »
    He did.

    Unfortunately.

    The world would be a better place if he had never been born.
    It doesn't work that way, if it wasn't someone called Mohammed, it would have been someone else and the outcome would have been similar.

    Humans in general seek leaders, and in times of strife the one who makes the best promises wins.

    Just look at 1930's Germany as an example.
    If it wasn't Hitler, it would have been another Nazi leading the country.


  • #3710
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Burger king ice cream packaging for instance.
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/burger-king-recalls-sacrilegious-desserts-1-1096308


  • #3711
    acb121
    Closed Accounts Posts: 399 ✭✭acb121


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    He existed. The real question is why anyone would actually think he got messages from "God" aka Allah.

    Lots of people have had messages from God.

    The thing is, only some of them get messages from God given them special sexual dispensations and messages from God telling them that they can have sex where the rules that apply to everybody else do not apply to them and God has given them special dispensations for their sexual urges.

    So in this instance, Muhammed is like Peter Sutcliffe, David Koresh, Charles Manson and other men who God spoke to and told them they were allowed to follow their unique sexual urges as God had made allowances for them.

    It's in the Islamic texts.

    Aisha, one of Muhammed's 11 wives ( in addition to his 4 sex slaves ), the one who he married at 6 and penetrated at 9 when he was aged 53 actually challenged him on it.

    Aisha challenges Muhammed. He goes away. Lo and behold doesn't Allah speak to him, and tell him that the rule that he had given earlier was only for the rest of the Muslims, and Mohammed was allowed to do what he wanted.

    Apparently Allah spoke to Muhammed and told him that he could have sex as the rules for the other Muslims did not apply to Muhammed, and Allah had made special rules for Muhammed.

    In an echo of " The Emperors New Clothes ", Muhammed's child wife and sexual "partner" spoke the truth that only children can speak when should openly questioned why it was that Allah was so quick to make new rules for Mohammed whenever such issues arose.

    it's all in the Islamic scripts.


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  • #3712
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Never been explained.....how come a suicide bomber was detected attempting to enter Stade de France and appears to have been allowed to walk away unchallenged. Or did the guy blow himself up at the same time as he was refused entry. Was he attempting to enter the ground 20 minutes after the game started? I don't get it


  • #3713
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It doesn't work that way, if it wasn't someone called Mohammed, it would have been someone else and the outcome would have been similar.

    Humans in general seek leaders, and in times of strife the one who makes the best promises wins.

    Just look at 1930's Germany as an example.
    If it wasn't Hitler, it would have been another Nazi leading the country.

    Hell, Alexander the Great is often considered one of the greatest leaders in history, but was also a butcher who murdered tens of thousands of people.

    He's treated as a hero, while Ghengis Khan who did the same damn thing, is considered an oppressive conqueror.


  • #3714
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Historically speaking, yes he did. There's considerably more evidence for the existence of Muhammed than Jesus.

    With the proviso that much of what is 'known' was written after his death and is at odds with the archaeological evidence.

    The Quran we know today wasn't actually written until some 20 years after Muhammad's death under the auspices of Caliph Uthman who ordered all other versions to be destroyed.
    So all we can say with certainty about the Quran(our primary source on Muhammad) is that it says what Uthman wanted...


  • #3715
    Wurzelbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭Wurzelbert


    acb121 wrote: »
    [...]
    In free Europe ?

    They could renounce Islam in the morning. They live in a free country where they can be any religious or sexuality or political persuasion within the law.
    [...]

    yes, but only in theory as they would likely be killed by clan members and live the rest of their lives in fear…


  • #3716
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    acb121 wrote: »
    Lots of people have had messages from God.

    No they haven't.

    Maybe anyone claiming this should be thrown in a nuthouse themselves as a precaution. Never know what the imaginary voices could make up next.


  • #3717
    acb121
    Closed Accounts Posts: 399 ✭✭acb121


    Carlee Tart Wedding wrote: »
    CHRIST - we get it, you don't like Islam, or anyone that is tolerant of people with follow that faith.

    Give it a rest.

    Don't like Islam.

    Give it a rest. That's the problem isn't it. Most people are totally ignorant. If they educated themselves they might have more insight into the issue, instead of wandering round like sheep saying " all religions are the same " and " all religions are peaceful " and " somebody must have twisted Islam ".

    Islam is an ideology.

    Muslims are individuals, people, many of whom did not choose to be a Muslim, and quite a different matter, so please don't attempt that smear.

    There apparently is an ignore button if you don't wish to have my posts visible. You are not forced to read them.


  • #3718
    Custardpi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Carlee Tart Wedding wrote: »
    No they haven't.

    Maybe anyone claiming this should be thrown in a nuthouse themselves as a precaution. Never know what the imaginary voices could make up next.

    I doubt the poster was being literal.


  • #3719
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Don't know if this has been posted yet, but there's some weird reporting going on re: the shootings
    https://twitter.com/PZbooks/status/664529154344419329

    The date in this tweet is 11 Nov, 2 days before the shootings took place
    Maybe it's just a rare error on twitters part. Or maybe not.


  • #3720
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    Never been explained.....how come a suicide bomber was detected attempting to enter Stade de France and appears to have been allowed to walk away unchallenged. Or did the guy blow himself up at the same time as he was refused entry. Was he attempting to enter the ground 20 minutes after the game started? I don't get it

    I think he just backed away from the turnstile and set it off there n then, so reports said.

    I'm sure it will all become clearer in time.


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  • #3721
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Carlee Tart Wedding wrote: »
    No they haven't.

    Maybe anyone claiming this should be thrown in a nuthouse themselves as a precaution. Never know what the imaginary voices could make up next.

    There it is. Only the deranged and the criminally exploitative today claim to be gods appointed one with special revelations from him. The vast majority of people here would run a mile from anyone talking Shyte like that today. If only they thought about it for a second and said hang on, if I wouldn't put up with that Shyte today why would I follow anyone who made the same claims 1400 or 2000 years ago.


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