Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

namloc1980 · 14-11-2015 09:57PM

Reports of shooting in a hotel near the eiffel tower. Unconfirmed.

Ace2007 · 14-11-2015 09:58PM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

That's what, 0.001%? Assuming even 0.001% of Muslims coming into Europe are extremists, that's 1500 people.

We've seen what 8 of them could do in Paris last night. We need stringent security checks of all migrants coming to Europe, and the immediate deportation of those who fail to meet the criteria. We can't waste time and resources, this is a clear and present danger to the structure and survival of Europe.

One of the attackers was a french national - how many french nationals are there - do we stop all french nationals coming to ireland on Holidays?

You see how stupid that sounds, but your using that logic when talking to Refugees.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 14-11-2015 09:58PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Muslims breed extremists though. Its a religion with a seriously problematic extremist tendency.
If Muslims arent the enemy, Islam certainly is.

What a rediculous statement to make. Religions don't breed extremists, people do. Extremists are not limited to Islam, they can be found within all religions, all nationalities, all classes of society.

Make a war on the extremists, not the religion itself or the people who follow that religion.

Iwasfrozen · 14-11-2015 09:58PM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Islam does have a disproportionately high number of terrorists, and Islamic countries do have a worrying number of people who support these radical groups.

If even 10% of Muslims (Pew polls put the figure much, much higher) are radicalists or sympathetic to radicalists, that's 160 million people we have to worry about. If even 1% of those are willing to kill for Islam, that's 1.6 million people we have to worry about.

That's what, 0.001%? Assuming even 0.001% of Muslims coming into Europe are extremists, that's 1500 people.

We've seen what 8 of them could do in Paris last night. We need stringent security checks of all migrants coming to Europe, and the immediate deportation of those who fail to meet the criteria. We can't waste time and resources, this is a clear and present danger to the structure and survival of Europe.

I wouldn't say it's as bad as all that old chap.

ghostdancer · 14-11-2015 09:59PM

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Well here's the option I favour. Actually it's Cameron's. No refugees are accepted from Europe but are actually vetted in reception centres in Africa. And naval vessels tow the refugees back to Libyan ports rather than tow them into Europe. And no status is afforded to those who cannot prove their identity.

and what about those that aren't in Africa?

i'm not actually looking for a realistic answer here by the way, that idea is so laughably unworkable and stupid, i'm just looking to hear your entertainingly nonsense rebuttal.

Carlos Orange · 14-11-2015 09:59PM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

We can't waste time and resources, this is a clear and present danger to the structure and survival of Europe.

I think that massively overstates the position.
We should still probably do something to stop thousands of Europeans being murdered.

namloc1980 · 14-11-2015 09:59PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

if those figures were even remotely true, we'd have attacks ever single day of the week all across the world, not least in Europe.
they're complete bullsh1t.

13,000 civilian deaths in Iraq this year so far mostly at the hands of radicals, would indicate it is a daily problem.

BlaasForRafa · 14-11-2015 10:01PM

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Well here's the option I favour. Actually it's Cameron's. No refugees are accepted from Europe but are actually vetted in reception centres in Africa. And naval vessels tow the refugees back to Libyan ports rather than tow them into Europe. And no status is afforded to those who cannot prove their identity.

Here's the option I prefer, don't accept any refugees at all but provide more funding to make the camps in surrounding countries better. That way they'll be in situ to return home after Daesh are eventually defeated.

IrishTrajan · 14-11-2015 10:01PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

if those figures were even remotely true, we'd have attacks ever single day of the week all across the world, not least in Europe.
they're complete bullsh1t.

I'm not sure if you don't read the news or what, but you are aware there's a lot of wars being waged across the Islamic world, right? Whether it's Kurds attacking Turks in Berlin, or Sunni throwing grenades at Shia in the streets of Sweden, whether it's a suicide bombing in Lebanon, or a rape and murder in the streets of Calcutta. Whether it's a car-bomb in Libya or the downing of a plane in Egypt, whether it's a Taliban attack in Afghanistan, or a tourist centre being bombed in Thailand... We do have attacks almost every day of the week across the world, a lot of it goes unreported, but it is reported regularly enough for us to extrapolate data from it.

But, of course, facts are racist and xenophobic, so my apologies for causing harm to your frail sensitivities and your nonsensical hand-wringing.

ghostdancer · 14-11-2015 10:01PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

13,000 civilian deaths in Iraq this year so far mostly at the hands of radicals, would indicate it is a daily problem.

well that would be relevant if a significant proportion of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims were in Iraq :rolleyes:

dogcat · 14-11-2015 10:02PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Reports of shooting in a hotel near the eiffel tower. Unconfirmed.

What? Is there any article on this?

IrishTrajan · 14-11-2015 10:03PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's as bad as all that old chap.

Remember all those months ago when we said this lackadaisical approach your side proposed to the migrant crisis would lead to ISIS fighters getting into Europe? I sure as fúck do.

namloc1980 · 14-11-2015 10:03PM

dogcat wrote: »

What? Is there any article on this?

On Sky News and twitter

ghostdancer · 14-11-2015 10:04PM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I'm not sure if you don't read the news or what, but you are aware there's a lot of wars being waged across the Islamic world, right? Whether it's Kurds attacking Turks in Berlin, or Sunni throwing grenades at Shia in the streets of Sweden, whether it's a suicide bombing in Lebanon, or a rape and murder in the streets of Calcutta. Whether it's a car-bomb in Libya or the downing of a plane in Egypt, whether it's a Taliban attack in Afghanistan, or a tourist centre being bombed in Thailand... We do have attacks almost every day of the week across the world, a lot of it goes unreported, but it is reported regularly enough for us to extrapolate data from it.

But, of course, facts are racist and xenophobic, so my apologies for causing harm to your frail sensitivities and your nonsensical hand-wringing.

those aren't facts, they're isolated examples. the only place with daily attacks are conflict-zones.
Islamic extremist attacks outside conflict zones are extremely rare.

IrishTrajan · 14-11-2015 10:04PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

One of the attackers was a french national - how many french nationals are there - do we stop all french nationals coming to ireland on Holidays?

You see how stupid that sounds, but your using that logic when talking to Refugees.

The French national wasn't killing in the name of France now, was he? Your argument is a fallacy, they are not comparable instances.

petrolcan · 14-11-2015 10:06PM

conorhal wrote: »

And would like to continue to be so. Why are you so eager to ensure Jack gets blown up by a suicide bomber because you suffer from some kind of irrational emotional incontinence?

Emotional incontinence, good one.

There's an awful lot of tarring everything with one brush in this thread.

There would've been outcry if that'd happened 30-40 years ago with the Irish Diaspora.

The Rape of Lucretia · 14-11-2015 10:06PM

Carlee Noisy Screenplay wrote: »

What a rediculous statement to make. Religions don't breed extremists, people do. Extremists are not limited to Islam, they can be found within all religions, all nationalities, all classes of society.

Make a war on the extremists, not the religion itself or the people who follow that religion.

May as well go to the root of the problem which is religion itself when it is incapable of resisting tendencies to extremism.
Religion has been pretty much successfully eradicated in Europe to a retro, museum heritage side of the culture of the continent. What remains is unthreatening and well watered down from it origins.

We can hope for similar in the future in other parts of the world and other religions. This is how the real problem can be resolved.

donegaLroad · 14-11-2015 10:06PM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Islam does have a disproportionately high number of terrorists, and Islamic countries do have a worrying number of people who support these radical groups.

If even 10% of Muslims (Pew polls put the figure much, much higher) are radicalists or sympathetic to radicalists, that's 160 million people we have to worry about. If even 1% of those are willing to kill for Islam, that's 1.6 million people we have to worry about.

That's what, 0.001%? Assuming even 0.001% of Muslims coming into Europe are extremists, that's 1500 people.

We've seen what 8 of them could do in Paris last night. We need stringent security checks of all migrants coming to Europe, and the immediate deportation of those who fail to meet the criteria. We can't waste time and resources, this is a clear and present danger to the structure and survival of Europe.

during the Holocaust, a small percentage of Germans were responsible for the unthinkable acts of cruelty towards the Jews.. the large majority of Germans who remained silent were irrelevant, the small minority continued the killing the slaughter continued.

ihatemyfish · 14-11-2015 10:07PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So you would rather thousands of refugees are turned away because of madmen? That's not very fair is it.

Some of the madmen are refugees. Completely opening up our borders has meant that terrorists could enter Europe and slaughter EU citizens.

Christy42 · 14-11-2015 10:07PM

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Well here's the option I favour. Actually it's Cameron's. No refugees are accepted from Europe but are actually vetted in reception centres in Africa. And naval vessels tow the refugees back to Libyan ports rather than tow them into Europe. And no status is afforded to those who cannot prove their identity.

Great. When we have an issue with the refugees we will come to you.

You still have no plan for people just entering illegally. They are well funded and dedicated to their lunatic cause. We can't patrol all the borders all the time.

I have pointed out why closing the borders won't work repeatedly and people keep insisting on ignoring the fact that they are willing to use illegal means to get into the country.

corny · 14-11-2015 10:07PM

Custardpi wrote: »

Utter nonsense. These are not aggrieved freedom fighters striking back against imperialism, however much you want them to be so. The efforts which Islamists have gone to to attack the West pale into insignificance when compared to the amount of attacks they have launched on groups with zero connection to Western powers. From Somalia to Kenya, Iraq & Syria Shia Muslims, Yazidis & Christian communities have been attacked by ISIS & other extremist Islamic groups. Their aim is not fighting back against injustice. It is to eradicate non Muslims & those Muslims whose doctrines they disagree with from their territory.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never suggested they were freedom fighters.

My point is the constant interventions, the subjugation of Muslims by the Jewish and Jewish supported states breeds the type of radicalism you mentioned. In short the West is just creating the breeding grounds. Disaffected, impoverished youngsters, no matter their religion, will always turn to some crazy ****.

youreadthat · 14-11-2015 10:08PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

One of the attackers was a french national - how many french nationals are there - do we stop all french nationals coming to ireland on Holidays?

You see how stupid that sounds, but your using that logic when talking to Refugees.

Refugees are a huge, largely undocumented group of people so desperate for safety that they shop around for asylum, and flee a country millions of Europeans seek as a resort, they are also from a religion totally at odds with European identity (even the most pacifist Muslims regard themselves as Muslim first, polls show many more are sympathetic to terrorist causes even if not willing to kill themselves). There is no anti-Irish savage section of French culture and society that would be needed for your stupid analogy to make sense.

darkpagandeath · 14-11-2015 10:08PM

petrolcan wrote: »

Emotional incontinence, good one.

There's an awful lot of tarring everything with one brush in this thread.

There would've been outcry if that'd happened 30-40 years ago with the Irish Diaspora.

You mean like every person in a boat is a Refugee fleeing death ?

namloc1980 · 14-11-2015 10:08PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

well that would be relevant if a significant proportion of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims were in Iraq :rolleyes:

What?? What about planes being blown up in Egypt or suicide bombings in Turkey or bombing in Bangkok or car bombings in Beirut or the daily crap in Syria. All happening and all at the hands of Islamists. You must be living under a rock.

Uncle Ben · 14-11-2015 10:09PM

donegaLroad wrote: »

during the Holocaust, a small percentage of Germans were responsible for the unthinkable acts of cruelty towards the Jews.. the large majority of Germans who remained silent were irrelevant, the small minority continued the killing the slaughter continued.

By remaining silent they were making themselves totally relevant to the holocaust.

ghostdancer · 14-11-2015 10:09PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

May as well go to the root of the problem which is religion itself when it is incapable of resisting tendencies to extremism.
Religion has been pretty much successfully eradicated in Europe to a retro, museum heritage side of the culture of the continent. What remains is unthreatening and well watered down from it origins.

We can hope for similar in the future in other parts of the world and other religions. This is how the real problem can be resolved.

yeah, pretty much eradicated :rolleyes:

IrishTrajan · 14-11-2015 10:09PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

those aren't facts, they're isolated examples. the only place with daily attacks are conflict-zones.

Islamic extremist attacks outside conflict zones are extremely rare.

No, they aren't. There has been widespread abuse and allegations of children being raped by different ethnic groups in the stadiums where "refugees" are being housed in Germany.

There has been several attacks this year and last in the name of Islam perpetrated against us as Europeans.

You can keep arguing a delusional, left-wing point all you wish, but that's not going to change the facts.

Islam does have a high number of people willing to kill for Allah, Islam does have a terrible reputation, Islam does have millions upon millions of people who support the actions of these groups.

conorhal · 14-11-2015 10:10PM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Remember all those months ago when we said this lackadaisical approach your side proposed to the migrant crisis would lead to ISIS fighters getting into Europe? I sure as fúck do.

I also seem to remember that ISIS quite blatantly SAID the would be sending terrorists amongst the refugees.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/isis-smuggler-we-will-use-refugee-crisis-to-infiltrate-west/

Rubber_Soul · 14-11-2015 10:10PM

Homer wrote: »

In fairness it's freedom of speech and their opinion.. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it gets censored.

You don't understand the concept of freedom of speech.

Ace2007 · 14-11-2015 10:11PM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

The French national wasn't killing in the name of France now, was he? Your argument is a fallacy, they are not comparable instances.

It doesn't matter what he was killing in the name of, the fact is he was carrying out a terrorist attack.

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

Comments