Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

Bannasidhe · 14-11-2015 07:47PM

Uncle Ben wrote: »

You really seem to be hoping against hope that this is all some sort of conspiracy. The Greek public affairs minister confirmed its registration last month . The passport lands beside a dead terrorist after that dead terrorist organisation had previously stated they had infiltrated and used the refugee crisis to get their fighters into Europe. No big conspiracy really.

Don't put words in my mouth.

I am asking how two passports allegedly belonging to two people who just blew themselves up happen to end up lying near their bodies.

Are we not allowed to ask questions now?

darkpagandeath · 14-11-2015 07:48PM

Chris_Bradley wrote: »

Completely agree with you but the French public on a whole will demand revenge & unfortunately people will die that really shouldn't.

I just hope this is not used to attack a country and this is used as a cover.

The perpetrators group is not a country. So I would not worry.

Fleawuss · 14-11-2015 07:48PM

Mods please merge if another thread not needed.

IS have issued their statement. It's worth reading: most conflicts are eventually resolved in either victory or a compromise. I think this statement reveals the puritanical religiously inspired roots of IS and their version of Islam. They are fundamentally opposed to Western European values. It's not easy reading but it's important to understand them.

"In the name of Allah, the All Merciful, the Very Merciful.

The Very High All Said: “It is He who expelled the ones who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture from their homes at the first gathering. You did not think they would leave, and they thought that their fortresses would protect them from Allah ; but [the decree of] Allah came upon them from where they had not expected, and He cast terror into their hearts [so] they destroyed their houses by their [own] hands and the hands of the believers. So take warning, O people of vision.” Surah 59 verse 2.

In a blessed attack for which Allah facilitated the causes for success, a faithful group of the soldiers of the Caliphate – may Allah dignify it and make it victorious – launched out. It targetted the capital of prostitution and obscenity, the carrier of the banner of the Cross in Europe: Paris.

Youths who divorced the world and went to their enemy seeking to be killed in the cause of Allah, in support of His religion and His Prophet (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) and his charges, and to put the nose of His enemies in the ground. So they were honest with Allah, we consider them thusly, and Allah conquered through their hands and cast in the hearts of the Crusaders horror in the middle of their land, where eight brothers wrapped in explosive belts and armed with machine rifles, targeted sites that were accurately chosen in the heart of the capital of France. Including the Stade de France during the match between the Crusader German and French teams where the imbecile of France, Francois Hollande, was present.

[They also targeted] the Bataclan Conference Center, where hundreds of apostates had gathered in a profligate prostitution party, and other areas in the 10th and 11th and 18th [arrondissements] and in a coordinated fashion. So Paris shook under their feet, and its streets were tight upon them, and the result of the attacks was the death of no less than a hundred Crusaders and the wounding of more. Unto Allah, is all praise and gratitude.

Allah had granted our brothers their wish and gave them what they loved, for they detonated their belts in the gatherings of the disbelievers after running out of ammunition. We ask Allah to accept them among the martyrs and make us follow them.

Let France – and those who walk in its path – know that they will remain on the top of the list of targets of the Islamic State. The smell of death will never leave their noses as long as they lead the convoy of the Crusader campaign, and dare to curse our Prophet (Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) and are proud of fighting Islam in France and striking the Muslims in the land of the Caliphate with their planes – which did not help them at all in the streets of Paris, and its rotten alleys. This attack is the first of the storm and a warning to those who wish to learn.

Allah is the greatest."

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/the-first-of-the-storm-translation-of-islamic-state-statement-after-paris-attacks/

conorhal · 14-11-2015 07:48PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

You have no idea what you're on about. Martyrs throwing shapes? What's the basis for your conspiracy theory? You find it incomprehensible that these people had a passport on them? Perhaps they were carrying then to avoid suspicion if stopped.

Carrying identification is a mandatory requirement in France. It seems that some of the attackers were Belgian and Syrian and would have needed to carry passports as they would not have had French national identity cards otherwise they risked being detained.

The Rape of Lucretia · 14-11-2015 07:48PM

Isaiah wrote: »

Yes, I agree. Christians accepts peoples right to choose thier own beliefs.

Not really. Christians indoctrinate with great zeal, their children, while they are still to young to know what is going on or be capable of choosing their own beliefs.
Islam is as bad of course. All religions use the same ploy.

stefanovich · 14-11-2015 07:49PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth.

I am asking how two passports allegedly belonging to two people who just blew themselves up happen to end up lying near their bodies.

Are we not allowed to ask questions now?

It was the Israelis all along I bet. False flag attack to harm poor immigrants.

Custardpi · 14-11-2015 07:50PM

corny wrote: »

I don't find that tepid tbh. Its probably a blunt but accurate description of the situation.

I mean the obvious example is since 2013 France has been sending weapons to Syria. Given the events of the last year its obvious some people have a problem with that.

Honest discourse in France and amongst the Western powers and not the usual rhetoric might might prevent these tragedies from befalling innocent people in future. The line we're fed that 'Jihadists' are attacking the West because they hate democracy or Christianity is ludicrous.

Utter nonsense. These are not aggrieved freedom fighters striking back against imperialism, however much you want them to be so. The efforts which Islamists have gone to to attack the West pale into insignificance when compared to the amount of attacks they have launched on groups with zero connection to Western powers. From Somalia to Kenya, Iraq & Syria Shia Muslims, Yazidis & Christian communities have been attacked by ISIS & other extremist Islamic groups. Their aim is not fighting back against injustice. It is to eradicate non Muslims & those Muslims whose doctrines they disagree with from their territory.

ihatemyfish · 14-11-2015 07:51PM

conorhal wrote: »

Reports now suggest a second Syrian passport has been found on an attacker.

More worrying is the numbers of EU citizens engaged in wars in the Middle East, 250 according to reports, which have returned to France. If you have left to fight your jihad in Syria etc, on your return you should face an automatic life sentence for treason. End of.

Fitzgerald needs to pull the plug on the "migrant quota" scheme.

Uncle Ben · 14-11-2015 07:51PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth.

I am asking how two passports allegedly belonging to two people who just blew themselves up happen to end up lying near their bodies.

Are we not allowed to ask questions now?

They most likely left them down. Do you have any views on how they got there?

Ace2007 · 14-11-2015 07:53PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Cover? Are you joking? Isis admitted responsibility for this attack. The only sane response is to do their utmost to destroy them. The west should annihilate these people in Syria and Iraq.

The problem with what your suggesting is that innocent people will die with this approach, how exactly are you going to identify whose ISIS and whose not - or do you just bomb areas and hope for the best?

If for example you know there is an ISIS cell in a certain area of Syria - what's your POA?

Amalgam · 14-11-2015 07:53PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth.

I am asking how two passports allegedly belonging to two people who just blew themselves up happen to end up lying near their bodies.

Are we not allowed to ask questions now?

A passport has a different mass from a body, the recent video of the suicide bomber that was alive after cleanly severing his body in half illustrates the point, bombs don't always macerate or shred, no reason why a passport wouldn't survive.

Awful events. Where do you even start trying to solve this problem hovering over Europe?

Branch and root reform of how welfare is dispensed is needed, to change the very psychology of how those payments are percieved abroad. People need to be kept busy, in mind and body..

stefanovich · 14-11-2015 07:54PM

Uncle Ben wrote: »

They most likely left them down. Do you have any views on how they got there?

They could well have been left there deliberately. You see these terrorist folks want to terrorise. What's scarier than thinking some of the Syrian's you've welcomed in want to destroy you.

Bannasidhe · 14-11-2015 07:54PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

You have no idea what you're on about. Martyrs throwing shapes? What's the basis for your conspiracy theory? You find it incomprehensible that these people had a passport on them? Perhaps they were carrying then to avoid suspicion if stopped.

Can you discuss things without the person digs or is that too much to ask?

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with Jihadist videos where young men like to throw shapes on camera and tell us how hard they are for Allah (figuratively speaking) - if, as was suggested, the passports were placed there by the bombers to get their 15 minutes of fame then surely a quick video sent to a news organisation would have been a far more practical way of achieving this.

I don't find it incomprehensible they had a passport and never said I did. I did say I find it suspiciously convenient that not one but two passports were found lying nearby after the explosion.

TheLastMohican · 14-11-2015 07:54PM

Of the dead suicide bombers ............. the union with the 72 virgins will be interesting. Considering like one ball in Outer Mongolia, one ball in the Azores and the monsigneur splattered against one of those statues on Easter Island

Bannasidhe · 14-11-2015 07:55PM

stefanovich wrote: »

It was the Israelis all along I bet. False flag attack to harm poor immigrants.

Have they run out of Irish passports then?

RobertKK · 14-11-2015 07:56PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth.

I am asking how two passports allegedly belonging to two people who just blew themselves up happen to end up lying near their bodies.

Are we not allowed to ask questions now?

The explosive would have ripped the soft tissue and bones apart, the passport would survive fairly easily, it was not strapped to the bomb. They are made of strong material and a fire would be needed to destroy it.
A bomb blast would have sent body bits flying, which is why things like nails and ball bearings are used by suicide bombers.
The passport would not have been incinerated.

Duggy747 · 14-11-2015 07:57PM

Passports in their pockets (reports saying at least one was found on a body) or flung out of the pockets / their pants shredded from the force as they detonated.

Custardpi · 14-11-2015 07:57PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

The problem with what your suggesting is that innocent people will die with this approach, how exactly are you going to identify whose ISIS and whose not - or do you just bomb areas and hope for the best?

If for example you know there is an ISIS cell in a certain area of Syria - what's your POA?

Sadly in any war innocent people will die, regardless of how just the cause. While rushing into war without a good plan (something which I'm far from convinced Western countries possess) obviously isn't the solution simply sitting idly by & doing nothing or hoping that fanatical mass murderers can be reasoned with may ultimately result in even more deaths.

stefanovich · 14-11-2015 07:57PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

The problem with what your suggesting is that innocent people will die with this approach, how exactly are you going to identify whose ISIS and whose not - or do you just bomb areas and hope for the best?

If for example you know there is an ISIS cell in a certain area of Syria - what's your POA?

Yeah, difficult to avoid civilian casualties. Isn't that always the case in war though. Unfortunately these ***** aren't wearing a uniform.

Bannasidhe · 14-11-2015 07:57PM

Uncle Ben wrote: »

They most likely left them down. Do you have any views on how they got there?

No.

I am simply saying I find it a bit too convenient so it should be looked at.
Could be they did put them down.
I don't know.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 14-11-2015 07:58PM

It is not important to understand them. No amount of argument can justify their bloody merciless murdering.

I wouldn't waste my time reading such hate ridden horsesh!t

Uncle Ben · 14-11-2015 07:59PM

stefanovich wrote: »

They could well have been left there deliberately. You see these terrorist folks want to terrorise. What's scarier than thinking some of the Syrian's you've welcomed in want to destroy you.

Yea and perhaps he was also just the same passport holder. No other proof to the contrary. Yet.

El_Dangeroso · 14-11-2015 07:59PM

What a complete bunch of ****.

namloc1980 · 14-11-2015 08:00PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth.

I am asking how two passports allegedly belonging to two people who just blew themselves up happen to end up lying near their bodies.

Are we not allowed to ask questions now?

Where you think they'd land? Two miles away?

Custardpi · 14-11-2015 08:00PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No.

I am simply saying I find it a bit too convenient so it should be looked at.
Could be they did put them down.
I don't know.

What are the alternative theories? A plant by Mossad?

Shurimgreat · 14-11-2015 08:01PM

ihatemyfish wrote: »

Fitzgerald needs to pull the plug on the "migrant quota" scheme.

No problem with women and girls. No problem with old men and old women. No problem with Christian or Yazidi refugees.

But young men who practice Islam. I'd have reservations sorry to say. We just don't know the long term implications.

Fr_Dougal · 14-11-2015 08:02PM

Most of ISIS don't stick to the rules that they impose on their followers. The senior leaders are nothing but thugs, hiding behind the veil of Islam. They use their militant interpretation of the Quaran to keep their followers in line.

A Primal Nut · 14-11-2015 08:02PM

corny wrote: »

I don't find that tepid tbh. Its probably a blunt but accurate description of the situation.

I mean the obvious example is since 2013 France has been sending weapons to Syria. Given the events of the last year its obvious some people have a problem with that.

Honest discourse in France and amongst the Western powers and not the usual rhetoric might might prevent these tragedies from befalling innocent people in future. The line we're fed that 'Jihadists' are attacking the West because they hate democracy or Christianity is ludicrous.

Did you see the statement of admission from ISIS? They clearly said they struck these locations because they thought the gatherings (for concerts, etc) were immoral.

darkpagandeath · 14-11-2015 08:02PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No.

I am simply saying I find it a bit too convenient so it should be looked at.
Could be they did put them down.
I don't know.

it would take hundreds of G to destroy a passport, It's small and condensed. Why do people have a hard time grasping this. Depending on the explosive used Nothing tends to vaporise.

Richard Hillman · 14-11-2015 08:03PM

I can't help but think Angela Merkel inviting millions of economic migrants to Europe will be in the history books in 50-100 years time.

The only question is, will they be in our history books after we win or will they be in American, Australian, Chinese history books after we lose.

We are living in 100% denial if we think there will never again be a case of where millions of civilian men are drafted to fight a war.

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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