Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

Grab All Association · 14-11-2015 08:54PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Point out anyone who said "stay in your own country".

The thing is these people were safe in Turkey as refugees. They didn't need to run to Europe for their lives as you put it. The minute they decided they wanted to get to Germany, Sweden etc they became migrants. We have processes for dealing with migrants and asylum seekers but the politicians decided to through all that out the window and open the borders en mass - Frau Merkel I'm looking at you.

Anyone who questioned this policy or suggested we needed to be careful who we let in, was shouted down by the bleeding heart right on crowd as a racist and xenophobic scare monger.

And now look where we are. No idea who we've left in or what terror threat they pose.

Some want to claim benefits to fund bomb making

nxbyveromdwjpg · 14-11-2015 08:55PM

TommyKnocker wrote: »

No, but I also find it strange. You are going out to commit a suicide attack or an attack that will most likely result in your death, so how does a passport make it onto your checklist of things to carry with you? It not as if you are a law abiding citizen looking to do your civic duty now, is it?

So check list. AK47 check. Extra magazines, check. explosive vest, check. Detonator, check. Passport...

Just seems strange to me.

Also I imagine a suicide bomber is pretty unrecognisable after they detonate their vest, so it seems strange how quickly it was reported that the owner of the passport was a refugee.

It is strange.

Not to say it's not true but it's definitely unusual and worth questioning.

Homer · 14-11-2015 08:56PM

freddiek wrote: »

i know this is After Hours but Mods, do decent people have to put up with this crap??

In fairness it's freedom of speech and their opinion.. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it gets censored.

rolliepoley · 14-11-2015 08:58PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

What the world are seeing and reading at the moment though is based off what the media/government want them to see and react to.

There are terrorist attacks everyday day of the week in parts of the world which get no air time at all, but when it happens in the west - it's big news, every station goes into full commentary.

Look at FB for example - you can put up the French flag, what about the lenience flag for the terrorist attacks there - No one cares.

The video has gone viral so some people do care.

A Primal Nut · 14-11-2015 08:58PM

TommyKnocker wrote: »

No, but I also find it strange. You are going out to commit a suicide attack or an attack that will most likely result in your death, so how does a passport make it onto your checklist of things to carry with you? It not as if you are a law abiding citizen looking to do your civic duty now, is it?

Maybe they needed it to get into the stadium. Maybe they needed it to collect their ticket?

So check list. AK47 check. Extra magazines, check. explosive vest, check. Detonator, check. Passport...

Pretty sure the suicide bombers didn't have an AK47 or extra magazines. Their plan was to get into the stadium undetected so bringing an AK47 would make no sense whatsoever.

Also I imagine a suicide bomber is pretty unrecognisable after they detonate their vest, so it seems strange how quickly it was reported that the owner of the passport was a refugee.

Well the passport number was registered in Greece as belonging to a refugee. I'm not sure how they 100% confirmed it belongs to the suicide bomber, but it's probably a reasonable guess unless an innocent Syrian refugee who went to the game dropped their passport there by mistake.

Bannasidhe · 14-11-2015 09:00PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

You need to get a new tinfoil hat. Quit trying to imply that there is some kind of conspiracy, until there is information otherwise then occams razor applies.

Quit having digs at people for asking perfectly valid questions because you don't like the implication of some of the possible answers.

I asked the question - and then I responded to posts like this which accused me of conspiracy by repeating my original question and now I'm implying there is a conspiracy.. wow... such an insight you have.

Is everyone else who asks awkward questions to wear a tin foil hat too?

You know who else dismisses those who ask awkward questions?

ISIS... see - they really are taking over Europe one closed unquestioning mind at a time. Questions will be forbidden in the new un PC Europe you mark my words.

I'll be ok though cos my tinfoil hat will protect me.

fr336 · 14-11-2015 09:01PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Maybe if we just ignore them they'll go away?

Did I say that? Dealing with things in an intelligent way would be a start. Not bombing bombing bombing, which has the opposite effect. But go on, keep being an armchair general while the real people are effected both in these far countries and on a night out in Paris.

Ace2007 · 14-11-2015 09:01PM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Why should we sacrifice our peaceful existence for them?

In a nut shell what is wrong with a lot of posts - you think of yourselve and probably do in every aspect of life.

I have pointed out to you that one of the attackers was a 30 year old french citizen, do we therefore stop all French people coming to Ireland on Holidays just in case. (of course you see that it stupid isn't it)

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Why should we let in people who could be radicalised? There's not a single benefit to our economy to taking in 4-30,000 people.

We should of course have stringent security checks like every sane country does. Canada, Australia, the US, for example.

Running for their lives? You know it's safe in Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Hungary, Croatia, Slovenia, Austria? Why then are we seeing hundreds of thousands heading for Germany, refusing to accept the laws we have in place? What's worse is that they're being enabled by hand-wringing fools with "welcome" placards.

So your happy for Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Hungary etc to take these people in, but just incase they are terrorist you don't want them coming to Ireland? Lets say they go to Greece, and get residence, what's stopping them flying to paris or Ireland in a few years time and carrying out attacks?

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Stop pretending like you cared about the bombings in the rest of the world before this happened. You were likely just as ignorant as the majority about the goings on in Lebanon, or Turkey, or Kuwait. This "what about them?!" faux-outrage is nonsensical.

An outrage in one country does not somehow negate the anger felt at an attack directed against us. It doesn't lessen the importance of this attack. This was directed against us, against our entire way of life and our ideals. Of course it's going to get more air time, because this is us. It can't be hidden from, its impact is going to be felt in Europe.

My attitude is that every one is equal, why do we allow the west to dictate the value of someone's lives? Had Europe/US cared about the people in the ISIS bombings and attacks over the last few years, we may have been able to prevent this from happening, but instead the attitude is simply - they can kill each other for all we care, as long as they don't come near us. Now they are here and people are saying it's time to react - when in fact the time to react was a few years ago.

darkpagandeath · 14-11-2015 09:03PM

TommyKnocker wrote: »

No, but I also find it strange. You are going out to commit a suicide attack or an attack that will most likely result in your death, so how does a passport make it onto your checklist of things to carry with you? It not as if you are a law abiding citizen looking to do your civic duty now, is it?

So check list. AK47 check. Extra magazines, check. explosive vest, check. Detonator, check. Passport...

Just seems strange to me.

Also I imagine a suicide bomber is pretty unrecognisable after they detonate their vest, so it seems strange how quickly it was reported that the owner of the passport was a refugee.

It stops you opening fire in an area with a little amounts of people to shoot. Jesus....

KenjiOdo · 14-11-2015 09:04PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I have no idea.

I am just genuinely perplexed at how two legible passports could end up lying near their presumed owners after these presumed owners blew themselves up.

One... mebbe... but two?

How does that happen?

Surplus of evidence intended to provide this thought exactly. It is complex web of lies, counter-lies, twists,excuses, black flags etc ---

Why? Throws suspicion away from them being actual Syrians, makes you think who 'they' could really be, but it was all a reverse psychology ruse, with them actually Syrian..??

Or it could be a simple FU to everyone they killed!!

In other words, its a clusterfck made to mess with peoples minds.. like yours!

petrolcan · 14-11-2015 09:05PM

Tasden wrote: »

How quick people are to forget the outrage they expressed at the poor little boy washed up on a beach. But when the terror is closer to home they suddenly don't care all that much about those who are also trying to get away from it. Some absolutely horrible comments on this thread.

I've restrained myself all day from adding to the thread because if I started replying to all the horrible comments I'd find my access limited to the prison forum.

darkpagandeath · 14-11-2015 09:06PM

freddiek wrote: »

i know this is After Hours but Mods, do decent people have to put up with this crap??

You mean criticising an Ideology is not ok ? I already Criticised the pope.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 14-11-2015 09:06PM

Reading this thread has brought on a feeling of shame. I am absolutely disgusted at some of the replies and suggestions on this thread. A retaliation, akin to what some have suggested here, will incure a loss of innocent life and guess what, the normal people, like you or I, will develope a hatred for the west. It's an ongoing circle and I cannot see an end to it, not with the policies we have in place.

Duzzer wrote: »

Interment without trial for all suspected Islamists.

Wow... incredible...

AbusesToilets wrote: »

It is a social cancer and should be treated as such. Eradicated root and branch, without respite or quarter. Their belief is unwavering and absolute, attempting to reason and compromise is the path to failure.

You could be talking about pretty much any religion really...

Muslims are not the enemy, extremists are. I don't know why hate preachers are allowed to do what they do, just because of freedom of speach.

A Primal Nut · 14-11-2015 09:08PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

My attitude is that every one is equal, why do we allow the west to dictate the value of someone's lives? Had Europe/US cared about the people in the ISIS bombings and attacks over the last few years, we may have been able to prevent this from happening, but instead the attitude is simply - they can kill each other for all we care, as long as they don't come near us. Now they are here and people are saying it's time to react - when in fact the time to react was a few years ago.

Europe and the US have been carrying out airstrikes on ISIS for years now. The only reason they didn't start earlier in the UK was because the more liberal-minded MPs voted against it in parliament.

Depp · 14-11-2015 09:08PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You mean criticising an Ideology is not ok ? I already Criticised the pope.

no you dont understand, the pope and christianity are fair game its the just the ideals of islam that cant be criticized because theyre all peaceful and poor unfortunate refugees

Sofa King Great · 14-11-2015 09:09PM

With regard to the passport, a suicide bomber is going to try get to an area with the most people possible whilst arousing least suspicion on the way. As a foreign national going to an event would it not make sense to carry so if you were stopped you would not appear suspicious?

strangel00p · 14-11-2015 09:09PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

So because a very very very very very small % of people that came have attacked Paris, you think Ireland and the rest of the world should close its borders and say no you can't come in?

That's exactly what should happen. It's a damage limitation exercise.

Severard · 14-11-2015 09:11PM

Interesting story here, German police stopped a man recently with eight AK's, grenades, handguns & TNT. He was heading to Paris:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/14/german-police-check-found-car-eight-ak-47s-grenades-tnt-paris-programmed-satnav/

Also on a side note Black Lives Matter and Mizzou "activists" are complaining that what happened in Paris is now taking away from their story. The arrogance of these people is unbelievable.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/14/mizzou-protesters-black-lives-matter-complain-pari/

Voltex · 14-11-2015 09:12PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Point out anyone who said "stay in your own country".

The thing is these people were safe in Turkey as refugees. They didn't need to run to Europe for their lives as you put it. The minute they decided they wanted to get to Germany, Sweden etc they became migrants. We have processes for dealing with migrants and asylum seekers but the politicians decided to through all that out the window and open the borders en mass - Frau Merkel I'm looking at you.

Anyone who questioned this policy or suggested we needed to be careful who we let in, was shouted down by the bleeding heart right on crowd as a racist and xenophobic scare monger.

And now look where we are. No idea who we've left in or what terror threat they pose.

Does anyone have any figures for the number of refugees Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Kuwait and the other "safe "Arab countries in the region have taken in?

When I finished college in the late 1990's I got a training position in a Swiss company based in Zurich. The compoany employed a lot of migrant workers who I chatted to and had coffee with a lot...and mostly nice guys from places like Serbia, Croatia, Hungary. One day I had coffee with a group of Kosovan Muslims and was completely shocked by the attitude towards Christians - one young guy even gestured that all christians should have their throats cut, now bear in mind this was the late 1990's, well before the start of the beheading videos.

Looking back, I can see that even though the vast majority of Muslims would never engage in such violence as we saw in Paris last night, an intrinsic attribute of the Islamic faith is of intolerance and isolation and a general lack of integration.

sjb25 · 14-11-2015 09:12PM

Gloves off maybe

https://www.rt.com/news/321873-france-aircraft-carrier-Syris/#.VkduYXKBORY.facebook

Amalgam · 14-11-2015 09:13PM

..if there's to be deportations, can we start with 'security expert' journalists?

The amount of hyperbole is just.. ALQEDAALQAEDAALQAEDA.. some of them sound like they're chanting, repetitious guff and hot air. There's still this fixation with Iraq as a starting point for all our troubles, from American pundits, in particular.

The Rape of Lucretia · 14-11-2015 09:14PM

Carlee Noisy Screenplay wrote: »

Muslims are not the enemy, extremists are. I don't know why hate preachers are allowed to do what they do, just because of freedom of speach.

Muslims breed extremists though. Its a religion with a seriously problematic extremist tendency.
If Muslims arent the enemy, Islam certainly is.

conorhal · 14-11-2015 09:17PM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

:rolleyes:

And where would you deport Muslims that were born and raised in Ireland?

Not a very clever post, now is it? :rolleyes:

Not very clever is failing to wonder why somebody born in Northern Europe is dressed for the desert based on medieval precepts on how women should bee neither seen or heard . It doesn't bode well for the prospects of integration now does it?
All that aside, I never saw a woman in a veil 15 yrs ago in Ireland, it's a daily occurrence today on the streets of central Dublin. Wouldn't that suggest that we're importing a problem rather then addressing one? Francis Fitzgerald and her predecessor Alan Shatter need a kick up the arse. Anybody turning up to a citizenship ceremony in a veil should be shown the door

TommyKnocker · 14-11-2015 09:18PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

It stops you opening fire in an area with a little amounts of people to shoot. Jesus....

I have previously lived and worked in France for two years and had an ID card which I had to carry at all times. However in that two years I was asked to produce it once, and that was because the guy I was with was stopped for speeding. So it is not as if you are constantly being stopped and asked to produce ID. I never needed it to purchase tickets for shows or concerts, though I never went to football matches, so can't speak for that.

I am not saying it could not be belonging to the suicide bomber of that it was not the passport of a refugee. I just question someone on a suicide mission would carry a passport and how quickly the fact that a refugee was one of the terrorists.

As I understand it all 8 terrorists had explosive vests, so if they were stopped for ID inspection there was a good chance that the bulkiness of the vest might be noticed.

My name is URL · 14-11-2015 09:19PM

Severard wrote: »

Also on a side note Black Lives Matter and Mizzou "activists" are complaining that what happened in Paris is now taking away from their story. The arrogance of these people is unbelievable.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/14/mizzou-protesters-black-lives-matter-complain-pari/

I'm not sure what's more pathetic. That a few idiots would use what happened in France to post such crap on Twitter, or the fact that others would use what a few idiots said on Twitter to get others seething about it

The world is an odd place these days

Bannasidhe · 14-11-2015 09:20PM

KenjiOdo wrote: »

Surplus of evidence intended to provide this thought exactly. It is complex web of lies, counter-lies, twists,excuses, black flags etc ---

Why? Throws suspicion away from them being actual Syrians, makes you think who 'they' could really be, but it was all a reverse psychology ruse, with them actually Syrian..??

Or it could be a simple FU to everyone they killed!!

In other words, its a clusterfck made to mess with peoples minds.. like yours!

It's not messing with my mind in the slightest but then my day job is asking questions about niggly little things like this.

I am finding it amusing that the sheer fact that I am asking the question seem to be messing with so many other people's minds that they are driven to respond -often just to have a dig at me for asking the question. :P

darkpagandeath · 14-11-2015 09:23PM

TommyKnocker wrote: »

I have previously lived and worked in France for two years and had an ID card which I had to carry at all times. However in that two years I was asked to produce it once, and that was because the guy I was with was stopped for speeding. So it is not as if you are constantly being stopped and asked to produce ID. I never needed it to purchase tickets for shows or concerts, though I never went to football matches, so can't speak for that.

I am not saying it could not be belonging to the suicide bomber of that it was not the passport of a refugee. I just question someone on a suicide mission would carry a passport and how quickly the fact that a refugee was one of the terrorists.

As I understand it all 8 terrorists had explosive vests, so if they were stopped for ID inspection there was a good chance that the bulkiness of the vest might be noticed.

We have no idea if they were wearing the vests going to the area, They could have picked them up close to the area like the weapons. I have no idea where the feeling Terrorists are stupid comes from. Not saying they were not wearing the vests either just making a point.

A Primal Nut · 14-11-2015 09:24PM

TommyKnocker wrote: »

I have previously lived and worked in France for two years and had an ID card which I had to carry at all times. However in that two years I was asked to produce it once, and that was because the guy I was with was stopped for speeding. So it is not as if you are constantly being stopped and asked to produce ID. I never needed it to purchase tickets for shows or concerts, though I never went to football matches, so can't speak for that.

I am not saying it could not be belonging to the suicide bomber of that it was not the passport of a refugee. I just question someone on a suicide mission would carry a passport and how quickly the fact that a refugee was one of the terrorists.

As I understand it all 8 terrorists had explosive vests, so if they were stopped for ID inspection there was a good chance that the bulkiness of the vest might be noticed.

Well it looks like it was noticed, that's why they didn't get in.

Many events use e-tickets these days, you print out the ticket and in some cases, you need to bring ID with you to verify you are the ticket owner.

Other times, you have to pick the ticket up at the stadium, again you would usually need ID.

Don't know for sure about how it works in Stade de France.

Uncle Ben · 14-11-2015 09:27PM

strangel00p wrote: »

That's exactly what should happen. It's a damage limitation exercise.

Polish EU minister has no bother linking last night's massacre with ISIS terrorists and refugee crisis. He has no qualms with demanding full control of who and how many enters his country. He has now refused all entry to any of the 160,000 refugees who were supposed to be dispersed amongst Europe. Our ministers should take a look at this course of action.

Icepick · 14-11-2015 09:27PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Quote 1 line from Christ's teachings that can be interpreted thusly?

Revelation 2:22-23
Matthew 10:28
Matthew 10:34-36
Matthew 13:41-42, 50
...

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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