Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

freddiek · 14-11-2015 02:07PM

Wibbs wrote: »

This. So much this. Good luck in selling that idea mind you. The kneejerk feels are not only to be found on the stupid "kill all Muslims" side.

Bad plan. That stuff has a nasty habit of coming back to bite us. The west backed the valiant mujahideen in Afghanistan and if you're of a certain age you likely loved watching Sandy Gall's reports of their successes against the Soviets. And we got the Taliban and Al Qaeda back for our trouble.

come on now, nobody had heard of Al Qaeda until Bush-Blair's bloodbath in Iraq.

Dkinn · 14-11-2015 02:08PM

Saipanne wrote: »

We need to stop referring to IS as a terrorist group. They have billions in assets, thousands of soldiers, armoured vehicles and control large areas of territory which they administer and tax.

It's at least an army, or at most a state.

By status yes. By recognition most definitely not. No country in the world is bat**** crazy enough to recognise them as an actual state and entity.

Custardpi · 14-11-2015 02:09PM

freddiek wrote: »

come on now, nobody had heard of Al Qaeda until Bush-Blair's bloodbath in Iraq.

The families of over 200 Kenyans & Tanzanians might disagree with you there.

wonga77 · 14-11-2015 02:10PM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I'm almost certain _oveless_ is a troll. Nobody can be that stupid.

Only "almost"???

Saipanne · 14-11-2015 02:10PM

Dkinn wrote: »

By status yes. By recognition most definitely not. No country in the world is bat**** crazy enough to recognise them as an actual state and entity.

Yeah, let's just keep thinking of them as crazy people. Bury our heads nice and deep.

wakka12 · 14-11-2015 02:10PM

Tusky wrote: »

Does anyone know of any Irish people who were caught up in the attacks last night?

One female Irish national reported dead

Sunflower 27 · 14-11-2015 02:10PM

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Most Muslims I've seen on social networks seem to go into defense mode, not even acknowledging the attacks. Now it's obviously not their fault that these scum of the earth share their religion, but by failing to actually admit and in many cases denying that there's a problem of radicalisation in the religion. Time for Muslims to speak out against these. If they don't they're condoning it.

Maybe because most Muslims considers these guys as monsters and would never consider doing what they do. The only ones responsible for these attacks are the perpetrators.

My Muslim friends are fearful Irish people will turn against them and tar them with the same brush. I don't blame them reading some of the tripe on here.

Christy42 · 14-11-2015 02:11PM

CptMackey wrote: »

This is why we are in the situation we are in. The looney left can't be allowed to control who we let in anymore. Multiculturalism has failed and failed dramatically. Want to live in the west then conform to our ways or leave. Take the rags off your heads so we can see yer faces. Don't like it then get deported. Islam is a dangerous ideology wrapped in a messes up "religion "

You are aware that they can get in even if you close the borders. We don't have the man power to patrol every stretch 24/7. Also if you ban burkas then ISIS will stop wearing them when they attack.

I am for stopping them but hurting innocent people just so you can feel like you are doing something is stupid. Even worse is that you will give them the opportunity to attract more members. We need to track the members precisely and target them. Nothing else will work.

donaghs · 14-11-2015 02:11PM

_oveless_ wrote: »

Can mods please ban people and delete posts criticizing islam? islam is the biggest victim in all this as people will question and make accusations against muslims as well as criticizing multiculturalism, europe is for everyone this will only be solved by MORE diversity not less.

Unfortunately "everyone" includes people who want to murder you. Be they inspired by the Koran or secular ideology. Surely you would "discriminate" against people like that?

trashcan · 14-11-2015 02:12PM

walshyn93 wrote: »

Yeah but what about when Angelas migrants get settled in for a few years just like the lads who carried out these attacks? No serious person is suggesting that migrants carried this out. Serious people are concerned that increasing the population of disaffected Muslim youth will only increase the odds of this happening again.

It's kind of ironic (I almost said funny, but there's nothing funny about it) These muslim youth are so disaffected and alienated within Western europe that it leads to this sort of massacre, yet where are the hoards of muslim fleeing Syria and elsewhere so desperate to get to ? Why Western Europe of course.

wakka12 · 14-11-2015 02:13PM

Also people keep saying we need to do something about this, what is supposed to be done? Clearly many ISIS members believe the cause of their efforts to be more important than their own lives so theres really nothing to do except kill them before they do harm.

_oveless_ · 14-11-2015 02:13PM

ugh so many racists in this thread at least normal people wont blame everything on islam only a few geeky nerds online

Drakares · 14-11-2015 02:13PM

_oveless_ wrote: »

some racist scumbag posted this on my facebook, this is the kind of warped mentalities who want to stir up racial tension #standwithislam

You are the most despicable person I have seen in my 10+ years on Boards.

Dkinn · 14-11-2015 02:13PM

Saipanne wrote: »

Yeah, let's just keep thinking of them as crazy people. Bury our heads nice and deep.

I agree, but they're an army and society of crazy people that seem to have an influence in the moderate Muslim population regardless of how much it is denied by the defenders of moderate Muslims.

Where are the thousands of Imams denouncing these attacks today?, where are the millions to billion of moderate Muslims showing support with the French people?, their heads are buried even further.

IrishTrajan · 14-11-2015 02:14PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I am advocating not playing the bogieman role ISIS want us to play and showing moderate Muslims that Europe stands with them against extremism.

Offer refugees Sanctuary and when the Crazy Boys have all blown each other up for not being 'Muslimist' enough we aid people to return home and rebuild a la the Marshall Plan in the 1940s.

And herein lies the problem. You seem to think a huge portion of Muslims coming here want to be Westernized. However, we've seen in Sweden, second-generation immigrants from non-EU/Arab backgrounds form ghettoes and tend not to work. They come radicalized in their own neighbourhoods. We've seen it in Copenhagen, Paris, London, Amsterdam, Brussels, Berlin... This idealistic notion of "everyone who comes here wants to be Western" just doesn't work.

These people are coming to Europe in the hopes of prosperity. But they have no skills, no money, and poor English. They are set for a life of dole payments and social housing. You think that's going to work to integrate them? No, they will fall back on their cultural roots. They'll think of their homeland with fondness and many will turn to Islam's teachings. They'll wonder why the grass in Europe wasn't as green as they thought it would be, and they'll call for changes to make things more "Islamic" for them.

Europe simply can't be responsible for the rest of the world's problems, especially when the times it does take people in, tragedies like last night occur. The right-wing will continue to grow in importance as the left screams down any moves to restrict this mass migration, and that will only backfire on refugees in the long-run.

So stop this failed experiment before the moderate majority is pushed into choosing one of two extremes. Stop this idealistic, unworkable philanthropic mission.

Stop it before things spiral out of control and we have bloodbaths.

not yet · 14-11-2015 02:14PM

_oveless_ wrote: »

ugh so many racists in this thread at least normal people wont blame everything on islam only a few geeky nerds online

Ahh heeor leave it out.

RobertKK · 14-11-2015 02:14PM

These terrorists were professionally trained, highly organised and carried out their plan to perfection. The problem now is who are the people who planned this, where are these people, how many more of these attacks are planned.
Islamic State when taking responsibility for the massacres said this was only the beginning of the storm and Paris is the heart of it. They said the concert venue was a place of perversion. There is nothing one can do for people who lack any basic form of reason and who are deaf to reason and blind to the evil they are doing.

There is a possibility that last night could be the new normal, that is two terrorist attacks in Paris this year. Paris was ready for a terrorist attack as they knew they were a target, yet when you get the type of attack that happened last night, there is not much one can do if the attack is the 1 in 100 that happens unnoticed by intelligence services in the lead upto the event.

Dkinn · 14-11-2015 02:14PM

_oveless_ wrote: »

ugh so many racists in this thread at least normal people wont blame everything on islam only a few geeky nerds online

Until moderate Muslims firmly reject terrorism they'll continue to be a target.

IrishTrajan · 14-11-2015 02:14PM

wakka12 wrote: »

One female Irish national reported dead

Injured, not dead.

hatrickpatrick · 14-11-2015 02:17PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Most of them applaud ISIS.

[citation needed]

stefanovich · 14-11-2015 02:18PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

[citation needed]

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/05/25/shock-poll-81-of-al-jazeera-arabic-poll-respondents-support-isis/

RedemptionZ · 14-11-2015 02:18PM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Maybe because most Muslims considers these guys as monsters and would never consider doing what they do. The only ones responsible for these attacks are the perpetrators.

My Muslim friends are fearful Irish people will turn against them and tar them with the same brush. I don't blame them reading some of the tripe on here.

Did you even read my post? Don't try to imply I think they have some responsibility in these killings. I said they need to come out and condemn these killings and speak out about radicalisation. Why would Irish people turn on them for that? Read the post before you assume I'm some anti Islam militant. Nearly 25% of all Muslims are radicalised, but that means that 75% aren't. These 75% need to unite and stand up to the radicals.

hatrickpatrick · 14-11-2015 02:18PM

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Most Muslims I've seen on social networks seem to go into defense mode, not even acknowledging the attacks. Now it's obviously not their fault that these scum of the earth share their religion, but by failing to actually admit and in many cases denying that there's a problem of radicalisation in the religion. Time for Muslims to speak out against these. If they don't they're condoning it.

This is the same bullsh!t which leads to men being shamed as a gender because of rapists. And all it ever does is piss off the demographic being attacked with that broad brush.

Dkinn · 14-11-2015 02:19PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Most of them applaud ISIS.

I wouldn't go that far but they're certainly not denouncing them.

And how nobody can denounce the actions that happened last night reflects very VERY badly on their moral code.

hatrickpatrick · 14-11-2015 02:19PM

stefanovich wrote: »

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/05/25/shock-poll-81-of-al-jazeera-arabic-poll-respondents-support-isis/

Care to cite a publication which isn't run by right wing nutcases?

Peregrine · 14-11-2015 02:20PM

_oveless_ wrote: »

millions of people die every day just because theses are white and european they should not get special treatment, if people werent left in camps to rot on the borders of europe then maybe things like this wouldnt have happened #refugeeswelcome

Special treatment? People died.

You clearly have no sympathy for the dozens of victims so don't post here again. If you post in this thread again, you'll be banned.

stefanovich wrote: »

Most of them applaud ISIS.

Comments such as this won't be tolerated either.

Mod

Bannasidhe · 14-11-2015 02:20PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Just to educate you a bit more dear shouting is using CAPS , emphasis is using bold fonts

I've already outlined what I would support. I've yet to see you outline a response better than appeasement and talking to them over a cup of tea

Please show me where I advocated appeasement or tea.
I hate tea.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 14-11-2015 02:21PM

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Did you even read my post? Don't try to imply I think they have some responsibility in these killings. I said they need to come out and condemn these killings and speak out about radicalisation. Why would Irish people turn on them for that? Read the post before you assume I'm some anti Islam militant. Nearly 25% of all Muslims are radicalised, but that means that 75% aren't. These 75% need to unite and stand up to the radicals.

If that 25% allegation is true, that's very worrying

Custardpi · 14-11-2015 02:21PM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Maybe because most Muslims considers these guys as monsters and would never consider doing what they do. The only ones responsible for these attacks are the perpetrators.

My Muslim friends are fearful Irish people will turn against them and tar them with the same brush. I don't blame them reading some of the tripe on here.

While I certainly sympathise with innocent Muslims the reality is that ISIS/Al Qaeda are not creating their ideology out of nothing. They are Salafists, which means they follow a strictly literal reading of religious texts such as the Koran & Hadith.

This is an uncomfortable truth that other Muslims, however innocent, peaceful, tolerant etc they may be have to face up to. The way to victory against the likes of ISIS will involve at least in part (the folly of Western interventionist adventures cannot be ignored) moderate Muslims standing up winning the battle of ideas against the Salafists. I posted this video of one such brave person a while back but here it is again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWNv97yq4Fc

Negative_G · 14-11-2015 02:22PM

Below is some new footage that was screened recently on Sky News.

WARNING: it does show people gravely injured and could be distressing for some.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=86c_1447486084