Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

jon1981 · 14-11-2015 11:28AM

bluewolf wrote: »

Read this on reddit this morning
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3sqh0u/serious_actively_practicing_muslims_what_goes/cwzo0cm

It's awful what happened in paris.

Don't really know what the next steps are

Really interesting comments and highly worrying if they are honest view points. Thanks for the link

screamer · 14-11-2015 11:30AM

bilston wrote: »

Boots on the ground are needed.

Why should any of our boots be put on the ground? Time was you fought for your country you fought for the future you wanted for your country. 1916 anyone? Syria is a civil war But the Syrians are running away to look for green pastures in Europe. If they aren't willing to stay and fight for their country why the hell should anyone else?

BoJack Horseman · 14-11-2015 11:30AM

Niemoj wrote: »

Actually the full verse is this:

"Whoever kills an innocent human being, it shall be as if he has killed all mankind, and whosoever saves the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind" -Qur'an 5:32.

Terrorism has no place in Islam whatsoever.

Actually you are not giving the verse in full!

There are several interpretations on exact wording but they all follow a simple narrative:

Verse 32:

For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

So, they are not happy with the Israelites for their seemingly ungodly actions.... and thusly it follows.

verse 33

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

Remarkable that one line appearing peaceful is actually part of a larger section calling for slaughter!!

People should check it out, it a riveting read.

Niemoj · 14-11-2015 11:31AM

Cabaal wrote: »

You've never read the bible have you?

It says it in plenty of places in the bible,
Killing others and hatred is the norm in many religions including in christian based faiths.

Here is the bible...the apparent book of peace and love telling followers to kill those that do not believe in the one true good,

I'm not even Christian and even I know that Deuteronomy doesn't apply to Christians. Christ is said to have fulfilled the law of Moses on the Cross.

But the Bible, like the Qur'an or any holy text really cannot be taken so literally.

leavingirl · 14-11-2015 11:31AM

bilston wrote: »

I think it's time l for the West to reassess its stance on Syria. There have been signs that they are starting to anyway, but now they need to make it official.

Assad is not a threat to Western Europe or the USA, Daenesh clearly is. This year alone they have attacked a Jewish supermarket in Paris, they have massacred dozens of British tourists on a Tunisian beach, they have tried to shoot up a train on the French/Belgium border, they MAY have blown over 200 Russian tourists out of the sky and now they appear to have carried out the worst terror attack in Europe in 11 years in terms of casualties and probably the largest scale terror attack in Europe (in terms of method) in modern history. They are a clear and present threat to all of us.

It's time the West just accepted Assad, at least in the interim. He is clearly a brute, but the only way to defeat Daenesh is to set aside our opposition to the Syrian government, join with the Russians and take the fight to this death cult once and for all. It can only be done with Russia onside though, otherwise things could get a lot more dangerous than they are even now.

Boots on the ground are needed. That's easy to say as it won't be my boots and there may not be much appetite for that amongst the general western populace, but the French public might row in behind it and Putin can get away with it in Russia. Between French and Russian forces on the ground, plus the Kurds and Syrian and Iraqi armies surely Daenesh can be broken.

Wiping out this scourge at source won't solve the problem completely but it will at least deny them training camps and it might discourage young Muslims going out there in large numbers to fight a lost cause.

Maybe I'm being naive and there are too many vested interest at work here for the West and Russia to come together, but if we could join with Stalin to fight a common enemy we can surely join with Putin.

As for immigration there could be an understandable backlash from Europe now, but it is important to remember that 99% of these refugees are trying to flee this violence, not export it.

22 servicemen kill themselves everyday in America. So it is very easy to fire out the cliches like 'boots on the ground'; recent polls in America show the people do not support boots on the ground in Syria. But Obama is just a puppet.

They should really stay out of it and mind their own fcuking business for once. The only fcukers invading are the US. How many countries did Assad invade or threaten??

The world is crazy and people need to study what is actually happening here

Stealthfins · 14-11-2015 11:32AM

How often do you hear of Sufism and Shia western attacks ?

How often do too hear of Sunni western attacks ?

I Am The Law · 14-11-2015 11:32AM

Orangebrigade wrote: »

My big fear would be the ROI and NI getting a large influx of refugees in the coming years and the potential of such an attack happening rising.

Probably already here, but I'm not sure what an attack in Ireland would prove internationaly.
Would be more concerned for London. Certainly border controls are a mess but that won't protect against radicalised first generations. So many questions.........

Nidgeweasel · 14-11-2015 11:33AM

Ah, so this is where the experts on the quran and the bible hang out.

Good to know.

kleefarr · 14-11-2015 11:33AM

Niemoj wrote: »

"If you kill one human unjustly then you have killed all mankind"
- Qur'an 5:32

The people doing these awful attacks are not a reflection of the muslin religion by any means. They are just murderers, cold hearted and evil. People really need to stop confusing them.

Stay strong Paris.

But I have a feeling they (Jihadists) think it is 'just' in their eyes.
Aren't many of them saying if you are not Muslim, you die?

Harry Palmr · 14-11-2015 11:34AM

Gatwick Airport security alert.

CelticRambler · 14-11-2015 11:37AM

Cabaal wrote: »

You've never read the bible have you?

It says it in plenty of places in the bible,

Quoting pre-Christian scriptures is hardly a good argument that Christ said violence was reasonable behaviour. :rolleyes:

But it's increasingly common to see so many anti-religion protestors quote Jewish texts to illustrate why the Christian church is supposedly no better than Islam. Probably a good reason to double the time devoted to catechism in schools!

Autonomous Cowherd · 14-11-2015 11:39AM

jon1981 wrote: »

Really interesting comments and highly worrying if they are honest view points. Thanks for the link

They are interesting comments.

I would remark that in my life I have heard some very uneducated, spiteful, offensive remarks among people with strong nationalist sentiments here on the border. Also growing up in a family with a strong Republican leaning (in the usual country Irish way of the 70s/80s) the remarks passed behind closed doors would not be considered edifying. Even as a child I recoiled at levels of conditioned loathing and ignorance. It does boil down to ignorance. People with brains and consciences and education and opportunity etc do not imagine hate will counteract hate.

Wurzelbert · 14-11-2015 11:39AM

leavingirl wrote: »

There were no WMDs.

Any weapons that Saddam used were given to him by the US

i take it that’s meant as a joking provocation…seriously though, do read up on history and some other stuff when you grow up…

AudreyHepburn · 14-11-2015 11:41AM

My god.....128 people have been massacred and all people on this thread can do is spew vile anti Islamic hate whilst seemingly trying to mitigate what the attackers did because they are disadvantaged and ghettoised, apparently extol the virtues of the IRA/INLA/insert your Irish terrorist organisation here by saying they are fighting for our freedom, bash the Catholic Church because of a minority of Paedophile priests (which along with the IRA bit has ZERO relevance to what happened in Paris) and demand that all refugees be sent home to die because of the actions of a minority of extremists.

I know this is AfterHours but I think certain posters need to take a step back and have a good hard look at themselves.

Grow up and cop on to yourselves.

Rightwing · 14-11-2015 11:42AM

I hope for Merkel is on the phone apologising to the Hungarian PM and other right wing governments.

Once again, the left wing parties are humiliated.

bilston · 14-11-2015 11:42AM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Gatwick Airport security alert.

Reading that in twitter.

I expect a lot of this type of thing over the next few days. Hopefully just precautionary.

dasdog · 14-11-2015 11:43AM

The goal of these attacks is to try and divide integration using angry young men with imaginary friends in the sky as foot soldiers. Don't fall in to the trap and immediately hate because that's what their generals are trying to invoke. Let the lunatic fringe collect in the Syraq. Easy target through disease or warfare at some point.

Bannasidhe · 14-11-2015 11:44AM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

You're not giving the full story though are you? For a few hundred years circa 800-1200 AD some of the islamic territories of the middle east were areas that encouraged scientific thought and made breakthroughs in mathematics and astronomy but with the rised of the Ash’ari school of thought in the 13th century they pissed all that away and stagnated in terms of intellectual advancement, regressed even, and by the 16th century had been thoroughly outpaced by Europe. The Ash’arites rejected the influence of greek, byzantine and jewish scholars and turned to a much more fundamentalist type of islam and that has continued on for the last 700 years or so.

Seriously? You expect the 'kill 'em all and let God sort it out Brigade' advocating everything from Nukin large portions of the Middle East to forcible deportation of all Muslims from 'our' Europe are interested in nuance and the fact that Not All Muslims are the same?

Their whole argument is built on 'All Muslims are the same and they are evil and they want to kill us so we should kill them before they kill us'.

Ironically change the word 'Muslim' to 'Infidel' and you have the 'reasoning' behind the terror and atrocities we saw last night.

In my post all I did was counteracting a blanket statement re: Muslims did blah blah bad blah to us with an equally blanket we did blah blah bad blah to them so people should get off their moral high horses when looking to use history for their propaganda as we Europeans have a lot of historical blood on our collective hands.

Sonics2k · 14-11-2015 11:44AM

sunyag wrote: »

And there we have it, lads. This has nothing to do with Muslam. *rolleyes*

It doesn't matter what's in some book written centuries ago, the point is that Muslam, as practised today, leads to terrorism.

Muslam definitely is the problem.

Did you know there are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world.

Think about it, if it was an entire religion of of war and murder, it would be a lot more than sneaky attacks but would be a full out war.

The incredible mass majority of Muslims do not agree with IS and are in just as much danger as anyone else for doing so.

Much like Christianity, there is no single belief but a few variants instead.

Orangebrigade · 14-11-2015 11:45AM

The Hungarian leader was spot on and needs an apology.

Richard Hillman · 14-11-2015 11:45AM

A psychologist is on Sky News saying we need to stop apologizing for the terrorists, as it is endulging young Muslims to feel agrieved.

I have to agree with him. The apologists are helping to radicalise these disaffected youth looking for a cause.

freddiek · 14-11-2015 11:45AM

I saw some dreadful stuff on this thread which even spread elsewhere on Boards.

the Mods. really need to get it together - people are being pulled up for petty little things and not being allowed post again. Blatant racism which revealed itself last night is the real problem that should be getting their attention.

Cabaal · 14-11-2015 11:48AM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Provide something from the New Testament.

As has been explained already on this thread... the Old Testament is used by Judaism & isn't used in the Catholic mass.

If you want to sh*t on the followers of Christ... you should use his hate preaching as proof.... which I ask you to provide... if you can.

The question I was asked was:

Where in the bible does it instruct to kill in the name of christianity

I answered and provided proof that it does instruct people to murder others,

Now you want to pick a choose what you believe in the bible, yet the catholic faith does use parts of the Old Testament..after all they believe in Adam and Eve and teach it in schools.
:rolleyes:

Extremists in any religion pick what suits them, if the content of the bible isn;t relevant anymore then remove it. Until then its the word of god and believers in its content can use it to justify the murder of people....after all their god said its ok.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 14-11-2015 11:48AM

CelticRambler wrote: »

Quoting pre-Christian scriptures is hardly a good argument that Christ said violence was reasonable behaviour. :rolleyes:

But it's increasingly common to see so many anti-religion protestors quote Jewish texts to illustrate why the Christian church is supposedly no better than Islam. Probably a good reason to double the time devoted to catechism in schools!

The poster was responding to a post that proclaimed there were no messages to murder in the bible.

Last time I checked, the old testament was the first section of the Christian bible.

The LRA and similar have no problem interpreting it.

Wurzelbert · 14-11-2015 11:49AM

Rightwing wrote: »

I hope for Merkel is on the phone apologising to the Hungarian PM and other right wing governments.
[...]

yeah, though she is probably busy calling leading imams and muslim organisations, apologising and assuring them that all this has nothing to do with islam whatsoever and that they need to bring more muslims into europe as quickly as possible…

Depp · 14-11-2015 11:50AM

freddiek wrote: »

I saw some dreadful stuff on this thread which even spread elsewhere on Boards.

the Mods. really need to get it together - people are being pulled up for petty little things and not being allowed post again. Blatant racism which revealed itself last night is the real problem that should be getting their attention.

It has nothing to do with racism, my problem is with the terrorists that do horrible attacks like this and the islam religion which fuels and encourages it, theres a difference between criticizing a persons race and whether or not they follow a sick evil text

leavingirl · 14-11-2015 11:51AM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

i take it that’s meant as a joking provocation…seriously though, do read up on history and some other stuff when you grow up…

There were no WMDs in Iraq. Fact. War crimes were commited by the Allied Forces. Fact. Even Blair admitted he made a mistake.

Saddam was armed by the US. Fact. I'll direct you to wiki and you can continue from there :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war

They turned on him when it didn't suit the US anymore.
Remember the allegations about the babies being thrown out of the incubators? It was all fabricated - the girl who gave testimony was the Kuwaiti ambassador's daughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_(testimony)

I could go on and on. I hope the people start joining the dots...

leavingirl · 14-11-2015 11:52AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

A psychologist is on Sky News saying we need to stop apologizing for the terrorists, as it is endulging young Muslims to feel agrieved.

I have to agree with him. The apologists are helping to radicalise these disaffected youth looking for a cause.

It must be true if it's on Sky News. Thanks.

whatever_ · 14-11-2015 11:52AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

My god.....128 people have been massacred and all people on this thread can do is spew vile anti Islamic hate whilst seemingly trying to mitigate what the attackers did because they are disadvantaged and ghettoised, apparently extol the virtues of the IRA/INLA/insert your Irish terrorist organisation here by saying they are fighting for our freedom, bash the Catholic Church because of a minority of Paedophile priests (which along with the IRA bit has ZERO relevance to what happened in Paris) and demand that all refugees be sent home to die because of the actions of a minority of extremists.

I know this is AfterHours but I think certain posters need to take a step back and have a good hard look at themselves.

Grow up and cop on to yourselves.

This is a complete misrepresentation of what I have read on this thread ... I suggest you take your own advice.

BoJack Horseman · 14-11-2015 11:55AM

Cabaal wrote: »

Now you want to pick a choose what you believe in the bible,
:rolleyes:.

unlikely though being an atheist & all.

I'm just reminding you if you want to sh*t on christianity, at least do so from scriptures of Christ.

Chapter & verse... whenever you can find it.

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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