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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #1982
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Tosh.

    Truman was facing a long war in the Pacific and a brutal costly invasion of mainland Japan , that's why he agreed.

    Not really.

    The Russians were already streaming into Japanese occupied territory, basically annihilating all resistance (they had just decimated Japan's Kwantung Army, the largest and supposedly best army Japan still had).

    It was most likely a combination of testing out the bomb and scaring the Russians into backing off.


  • #1983
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    Isaiah wrote: »
    Syria was modern and liberal by Muslim standards, as was Libya. As is Iran.

    Yet the west sides with the head hacking Saudis.

    Syria, Iran and Libya along with Saddam's Iraq were never the real enemies. The entities the West supported most were the real enemies and Saudi Arabia is the elephant in the room when it comes to the real biggest state sponsor of terrorism. Whether intentionally or not, the West made very poor decisions when choosing its so-called allies during the cold war. Most rebel groups they supported against Soviet interests were common criminals and the worst being Taliban/al Qaeda which is the father of ISIS. I just wish the media calls these what they are: common drug dealers, thieves, scammers, pimps, murderers and, of course, terrorists. They are not Muslim, nationalist or genuine to any cause.


  • #1984
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    EireGun wrote: »
    1. Austria August 29, 1981 – 1981 Vienna synagogue attack. 2 dead 30 injured.
    2. Italy October 2, 1982 – 1982 Great Synagogue of Rome attack. 1 dead 37 injured.
    3. Italy December 27, 1985 – Rome and Vienna airport attacks. 23 dead 139 injured.
    4. Greece June 14, 1985 – TWA Flight 847 hijacking. 1 dead.
    5. Greece April 2, 1986 – TWA Flight 840 bombing (1986). 4 dead. 7 injured.
    6. Turkey September 6, 1986 – Neve Shalom Synagogue Attack. 22 dead.
    7. United Kingdom December 21, 1988 - 1988 Lockerbie bombing 270 dead, also includes 11 on the ground
    8. United States January 25, 1993 - 1993 shootings at CIA Headquarters in Langley, Virginia. 2 killed, 3 injured.
    9. United States February 26, 1993 – World Trade Center bombing, in New York City. 6 killed, 1,042 injured
    10. Turkey July 2, 1993 – Sivas Massacre, Arson attack at a gathering in Sivas killing 35 intellectuals from Turkey, most of whom were Alevis.
    11. United Kingdom July 26, 1994 – The 1994 London Israeli Embassy attack. 20 injured.
    12. France July 25-October 17, 1995 – The 1995 Paris Métro and RER bombings were a series of attacks by the Armed Islamic Group of Algeria in
    13. France. 8 killed 100+ wounded.
    14. Croatia October 20, 1995 – In the 1995 Rijeka bombing a suicide bomber attempted to destroy a police station by driving a car with a bomb into the wall of the building. killing 1 (assailant) injured 29.
    15. Bosnia and Herzegovina September 18, 1997 – The 1997 Mostar car bombings. 29 people injured.
    16. United States September 11, 2001 – 4 planes hijacked by 19 al-Qaeda members: two planes crashed into the World Trade Center in New York City, New York; one into The Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia; and one into a field near Shanksville, Pennsylvania. 2,977 victims killed.

    It was about time we took them on in their own turf, like they had been doing for decades to us.
    Again, I really would encourage you to look into the history of the middle east, especially but not only, during the Cold War. It's pretty fascinating stuff and you might even learn some things from it.


  • #1985
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    BoatMad wrote: »
    Tosh.

    Truman was facing a long war in the Pacific and a brutal costly invasion of mainland Japan , that's why he agreed. The military would have deposed the emperor had he attempted surrender before the bomb

    Look, you can believe the movies you've watched and the pop-history you've read but it just doesn't reflect recorded history.

    The US knew the Empire was about to surrender to the allies so that they wouldn't have to deal with a Russian invasion on mainland Japan, but the US decided "we have the bomb, lets drop it anyway".


  • #1986
    XR3i
    Site Banned Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭XR3i


    just seen videos on liveleak of the cafe massacre, the screaming and wailing of people shot up badly dying on the pavement


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  • #1987
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    EireGun wrote: »
    1. Austria August 29, 1981 – 1981 Vienna synagogue attack. 2 dead 30 injured.
    2. Italy October 2, 1982 – 1982 Great Synagogue of Rome attack. 1 dead 37 injured.
    3. Italy December 27, 1985 – Rome and Vienna airport attacks. 23 dead 139 injured.
    4. Greece June 14, 1985 – TWA Flight 847 hijacking. 1 dead.
    5. Greece April 2, 1986 – TWA Flight 840 bombing (1986). 4 dead. 7 injured.
    6. Turkey September 6, 1986 – Neve Shalom Synagogue Attack. 22 dead.
    7. United Kingdom December 21, 1988 - 1988 Lockerbie bombing 270 dead, also includes 11 on the ground
    8. United States January 25, 1993 - 1993 shootings at CIA Headquarters in Langley, Virginia. 2 killed, 3 injured.
    9. United States February 26, 1993 – World Trade Center bombing, in New York City. 6 killed, 1,042 injured
    10. Turkey July 2, 1993 – Sivas Massacre, Arson attack at a gathering in Sivas killing 35 intellectuals from Turkey, most of whom were Alevis.
    11. United Kingdom July 26, 1994 – The 1994 London Israeli Embassy attack. 20 injured.
    12. France July 25-October 17, 1995 – The 1995 Paris Métro and RER bombings were a series of attacks by the Armed Islamic Group of Algeria in
    13. France. 8 killed 100+ wounded.
    14. Croatia October 20, 1995 – In the 1995 Rijeka bombing a suicide bomber attempted to destroy a police station by driving a car with a bomb into the wall of the building. killing 1 (assailant) injured 29.
    15. Bosnia and Herzegovina September 18, 1997 – The 1997 Mostar car bombings. 29 people injured.
    16. United States September 11, 2001 – 4 planes hijacked by 19 al-Qaeda members: two planes crashed into the World Trade Center in New York City, New York; one into The Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia; and one into a field near Shanksville, Pennsylvania. 2,977 victims killed.

    It was about time we took them on in their own turf, like they had been doing for decades to us.

    The West has and continues to tolerate extremist acts coming from organisations that are hostile but who are also a thorn in the side of the West's so-called enemies (they don't realise those they support are the real enemy of course). All of the above were tolerated as long as the Soviets were bogged down in Afghanistan. Saudi Arabian aggression once again goes unpunished. Of course, a few harsh words against Libya, Iran or Iraq or whatever other makey uppy innocent 'enemy' that suits can be given to divert attention, and then all is forgotten and things continue. This policy has lead to why we have a major major problem problem of organised crime dominating the world today.


  • #1988
    castletownman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,568 ✭✭✭✭castletownman


    BoatMad wrote: »
    The U.S. Nuked Japan, because it realised it faced a fanatical enemy , that even when defeat was obvious was prepared to fight to the last kamikaze.

    Two cities in rubble foscused their minds however.

    Just saying

    And Japan have stayed quiet since. Times the nuclear capability of a few more countries to the threat of ISIS, and there will be less stories like this


  • #1989
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Isaiah wrote: »
    Syria was modern and liberal by Muslim standards, as was Libya. As is Iran.

    Yet the west sides with the head hacking Saudis.
    And yet many those who most vocally hate the Saudi's tend to equate all, or the vast majority, of Muslims with them while considering the USA 'the good guys'. It's all pretty interesting, amusing and depressing at the one time - but it goes to show how easy it is to get people to think what you want them to think with some good old fashioned propaganda.


  • #1990
    magma69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭magma69


    Whilst the West poking its head in the Middle East didn't help things at all and America's hypocrisy re: Saudi Arabia, those who say this is nothing to do with Islam are just pussies at this point. There's many factors at play here but Islam is at the heart of this behaviour. It's not just a symptom of politics and frankly, anyone who won't admit that is a coward in my opinion.


  • #1991
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,249 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Letree wrote: »
    Why, nobody has to respect any religion.

    Well thats a very pig headed attitude of you.
    Because by saying why should anyone respect religion is saying why should anyone respect anyone or anything.

    See religion wasn't the cause of tonight or any other terrorist attack. It's just pure evil scum. People who twist the morality of life to suit their own causes.

    To quote the late comedian George Carlin, lets all worship the sun. It's all powerful, it promotes life and you can actually see it. But hold on... these evil industrial companies are poluting our ozone layer!? So perahps one day the sun might cook us all!? lets blow them up and their families too!!!! - it's no different.

    My point is evil people will do evil things. After all there was a guy named Adolf who wanted to kill some jews...


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  • #1992
    Facekicking 2 The Future
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭Facekicking 2 The Future


    It's pretty stunning how an attack on the scale of 9/11 hasn't happened again in the last 14 years.

    Think of all the nuclear material that went missing post USSR collapse.
    I always see attacks and think this could be the least of all.

    Imagine an ISIS rogue bomb going off in a major city and for days we may not know who it is, the finger pointing that would ensure or even if we would get around to finger pointing before we'd start getting nervous on the triggers.


  • #1993
    meepins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭meepins


    B.A._Baracus wrote: »
    My point is evil people will do evil things. After all there was a guy named Adolf who wanted to kill some jews...
    Was there really? Never heard about it, please tell us more.


  • #1994
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Isaiah wrote: »
    Half of Spain/portugal under Islamic control 1000 years ago. The crusades were in repsonse to Muslim attacks against the orthodox and pilgrims. The Muslims attacked first.

    Islamist hatred and attacks on Europeans go back at least a millennia.

    Sigh - the Crusades...Did you know the Crusader were give absolute absolution by the Church before they set out so any 'naughtiness' of the rape, murder, pillage kind would be instantly forgiven and they wouldn't go to Hell?
    That's something to boast about when we are having a which lot produced the biggest shower of murdering b*stards contest eh! Not Europe obviously as we had pre-forgiveness in place.

    And of course pilgrims were absolutely safe to travel the highways and byways of Europe and it was vital we went off an policed someone else's country - bringing Feudalism to the world or some such nonsense.

    Christian expansionism slapped up against Muslim expansionism. Apparently the former is acceptable but the latter isn't... after all, when Saladin stopped the Europeans in their tracks we picked ourselves up (eventually), got around to reading some of those books the Muslims had left lying around in Cordoba after Their Catholic Majesties kicked them out after 700 years living there and Christendom decided to take over the rest of the world gradually working our way to India with it's large Muslim population and took over that. Some slaughter was unavoidable.

    It really is ridiculous to bang on about Islam hates Europe (by which I imagine you mean Christendom) when Christendom hated Islam just as much and committed a fair few atrocities while invading Muslim lands.


    We also didn't exactly act honorably in the years preceding WWI - or after it. Or shall we ignore the French (for example) colonies in North Africa?

    The point being that it's two gangs who have been head butting for centuries and neither side can claim the moral high ground.

    What we are faced with now is a Muslim version of our Inquisition fueled Conquistadors and all this talk of bombing them is adding to the problem.

    As for advocating allowing the very people who are fleeing from them be left to their mercy - that is frankly pants on head stupid. If we want ordinary every day just want to live their lives Muslims to reject extremism then allowing children to drown is not the way to demonstrate that our way of life is the one they want to embrace.

    Want to stop the Jihadists? Stop feeding their propaganda.

    They say Jihad - we say Sacrum Bellum - let's call the whole thing off.


  • #1995
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,249 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    meepins wrote: »
    Was there really? Never heard about it, please tell us more.


    Or you can be very sarcastic ... which you are.
    I mean, there is trying to counter what I said then just being very EXTREMELY sarcastic.


  • #1996
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    efb wrote: »
    Should all Irish people be blamed for the IRA attacks???


    Not in my name

    What a ****ing shout mate take a bow.


  • #1997
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    magma69 wrote: »
    Whilst the West poking its head in the Middle East didn't help things at all and America's hypocrisy re: Saudi Arabia, those who say this is nothing to do with Islam are just pussies at this point. There's many factors at play here but Islam is at the heart of this behaviour. It's not just a symptom of politics and frankly, anyone who won't admit that is a coward in my opinion.

    Remember that quote in the Western Shane about the gun being just a tool but the man behind it being the deciding factor of how it would be used. It is the same with Islam. Islam when in the control of ISIS, Taliban, al Qaeda, etc. is a tool used for evil purposes. What goes on today is very much to do with organised crime 100% who use and abuse Islam 100%. Of course, they focus on the jihad verses and embellish them and of course they can justify any actions they do based on non-Islamic events like Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Terrorism in war has been used by West too many times and this has only given the criminals of today their backing argument. 2 wrongs don't make a right though: 9/11 and Hiroshima to name just 2 are 2 satanic events and are hardly an example of the better actions of mankind. I know Truman and others suffered depression later on because of their decisions but the guys who forced Truman, a rookie president at the time remember, into it probably not. I know Churchill suffered depression too but what about his advisors? What about bin Laden and Zawahiri? Never heard what their feelings were (although Zawahiri has distanced himself from ISIS and may feel guilty but it is too late when the evil deed is done, Dr.). But to me all were thinking they were playing Duke Nukem and only realised later they did wrong when it was too late. Others did not even realise perhaps.


  • #1998
    Paramite Pie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    XR3i wrote: »
    just seen videos on liveleak of the cafe massacre, the screaming and wailing of people shot up badly dying on the pavement

    I honestly couldn't watch that. I already can't sleep as it is.


  • #1999
    meepins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭meepins


    B.A._Baracus wrote: »
    Or you can be very sarcastic ... which you are.
    I mean, there is trying to counter what I said then just being very EXTREMELY sarcastic.
    I didn't pay attention really to your post.
    That whole Hitler killed Jews guys!1 just bloody annoyed me. Enough already about Hitler.


  • #2000
    B17G
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭B17G


    efb wrote: »
    Should all Irish people be blamed for the IRA attacks???


    Not in my name

    Nope. Never felt guilt about resisting attacks by expansionist imperial powers. Thanks.


  • #2001
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,249 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    meepins wrote: »
    I didn't pay attention really to your post.
    That whole Hitler killed Jews guys!1 just bloody annoyed me. Enough already about Hitler.

    Well you could have paid attention my post rather than just reading one line.
    It just comes off as wanting to moan about something. As I wrote several lines.


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  • #2002
    Eimee90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 301 ✭✭Eimee90


    Having read the forums tonight across many websites and the odd comment here, It's so ignorant to turn around and say Islam is the problem. What happened tonight was horrific and awful to witness, but people need to get their facts straight, Islam is a religion and there are many honest Islamic people who are not terrorists or who support the murders that occured tonight. There is a huge difference between Islamic terrorists/Extremists and a person who follows the Islamic faith.

    Once again like when 9/11 happened, emotions and fear are going to run high tonight and the coming days and we need to ground ourselves and not tar a particular group for another groups evil doings. It is easy to resent and target people when we are angry, and that's how hatred spreads. Isis are evil, terrorists and Islamic extremists are evil, but there are so many good Muslim people out there as well who tonight all over the world and particularly in France are fearing the retribution and treatment they are going to face from people from tomorrow onwards. We should be standing together and condemning the terrorists, not the faith.


  • #2003
    LincolnsBeard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭LincolnsBeard


    HardenendMan wrote: »
    FFS...oppressed?! So go on a mad shooting spree???

    That's what the IRA did but with bombs


  • #2004
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    leavingirl wrote: »
    His tweet is one of the few comments that show any knowledge of what is really going on here.

    Says the poster who thinks the U.S. has invaded Syria...:rolleyes:


  • #2005
    the untitled user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭the untitled user


    LincolnsBeard wrote: »
    That's what the IRA did but with bombs

    How the **** can you even draw such a comparison?
    Tell-tale skin and teeth
    Flecking the sleepers
    Of four young brothers, trailed
    For miles along the lines.


  • #2006
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Have you ever read about the Crusades? Spanish Inquisition? The things the Catholic Church did in Ireland and that its leadership covered up?

    Evil is not unique to one religion and it never has been.

    Bingo! It only took 1600 posts but we finally managed to get in a dig at paedophile priests...:rolleyes:


  • #2007
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    There is only a contradiction if you're so dead set in believing the West is responsible for the actions of everyone else.

    Which it isn't.

    As I said: Self-pity, more interested in blaming the West than those actually responsible.

    Can you explain why they attacked France, a country that was dead set against invading Iraq for example ?

    You might rise above and simply ask why did this happen. And please...no cliches from the cheap seats in the gallery.

    Why would someone do this?


  • #2008
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    the untitled user wrote: »
    How the **** can you even draw such a comparison?

    Because the IRA used bombs, and because the IRA did so over what they felt was oppression. Pretty straight forward, I would have thought?


  • #2009
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Because the IRA used bombs, and because the IRA did so over what they felt was oppression. Pretty straight forward, I would have thought?

    How are the muslim people in France oppressed? Are those dastardly white french people gerrymandering?


  • #2010
    Facekicking 2 The Future
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭Facekicking 2 The Future


    magma69 wrote: »
    Whilst the West poking its head in the Middle East didn't help things at all and America's hypocrisy re: Saudi Arabia, those who say this is nothing to do with Islam are just pussies at this point. There's many factors at play here but Islam is at the heart of this behaviour. It's not just a symptom of politics and frankly, anyone who won't admit that is a coward in my opinion.

    They are trying to exterminate anyone who isn't fundamentalist Islam. It's an attack by a "Islamic Warrior" not a "terrorist". Maybe I'm getting carried away with semantics, but I think "terrorist" is somewhat a PC word to avoid singling out Islam.


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  • #2011
    LincolnsBeard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭LincolnsBeard


    Deleted User wrote: »
    How are the muslim people in France oppressed? Are those dastardly white french people gerrymandering?

    They think that their countries are being occupied/oppressed by Western military powers.


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