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Garda hits man with baton NAMA

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Comments

  • #182
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Phaedrus1 wrote: »
    That guard WX152 should be dismissed and prosecuted - he's a liability to the force.

    This is the type of lout who gets the Gardaí a bad name and makes good community relations impossible.

    Of course Kenny and his poodles in Labour don't help by using willing louts like WX152 to rough people up if they dare not comply with the joke that is Irish Water.

    Welcome to boards


  • #183
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    So what should the gardai have done, did you watch the full video?

    "Excuse me sir, would you mind stepping back a little"?
    "Under what legislation should I do that, you need to quote the full thing to me, otherwise it's an illegal request, rabble rabble nonsense nonsense".

    He should have said stand back, stand back. I have told you to stand back. Do not have me use force.

    Its pretty standard training.

    Also you do not extend an asp above your shoulder and strike with your full weight.


  • #184
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    STB. wrote: »
    He should have said stand back, stand back. I have told you to stand back. Do not have me use force.

    Its pretty standard training.

    Also you do not extend an asp above your shoulder and strike with your full weight.

    Yes you do. You strike as few times as possible with force.


  • #185
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 28,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Phaedrus1 wrote: »
    That guard WX152 should be dismissed and prosecuted - he's a liability to the force.

    This is the type of lout who gets the Gardaí a bad name and makes good community relations impossible.

    Of course Kenny and his poodles in Labour don't help by using willing louts like WX152 to rough people up if they dare not comply with the joke that is Irish Water.

    Or here's a crazy idea,

    The matter should be properly investigated and depending on the outcome of the investigation action should be taken.

    knee jerk reactions help nobody (except people that just hate the Gardai), you can't just fire somebody without first investigating what actually happened.


  • #186
    Míshásta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Míshásta


    That was not a peaceful protest.

    They were provoking the guards from the beginning.

    They were physically interfering with the guards carrying out their duty.

    I'm surprised the guards didn't draw batons earlier.

    I really believe some of the protesters are happy that their provocation had the desired effect of one of their numbers getting a clatter so they can bawl "Police violence"

    I wonder who was the lippy legal advocate at the beginning of the video? A future member of the Law Library no doubt, and a pillar of society.


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  • #187
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Here's a list of freemen successes that makes interesting reading

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land#Freeman_successes


  • #188
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Clandestine wrote: »
    Provoked or not, he swung wildly and hit a bloke in the head. Hard enough, it could have caused serious damage or even death.
    That's comedy. Find me one example of someone who has been killed by an expandable police baton. These batons hold all their weight in the handle and have a small steel tip. The end result is that you require quite a bit of force for the baton to have any impact and if you're very unlucky the steel tip may break the skin, but will often just cause a bruise, especially when hit through clothing.

    Doesn't look like he swung wildly to me either. Good practice is to swing vertically as much as possible. A swing sideways won't work in close quarters (you'll just hit five other people on the way) and a vertical swing gives you more directional control. In close quarters it's next to impossible to hit the legs, so you aim for the upper body instead.

    He didn't even hit the guy in the head, he clearly hit him across the upper arm.


  • #189
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,442 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Phaedrus1 wrote: »
    That guard WX152 should be dismissed and prosecuted - he's a liability to the force.

    This is the type of lout who gets the Gardaí a bad name and makes good community relations impossible.

    Of course Kenny and his poodles in Labour don't help by using willing louts like WX152 to rough people up if they dare not comply with the joke that is Irish Water.

    Hmmmmmm.....

    New account. Tell us? Do you spend much time protesting at auctions in Gorey?


  • #190
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Yes you do. You strike as few times as possible with force.

    Eh, no you don't. Even under circumstances where you fear for your life!

    The idea is that you don't put your colleagues in a situation whereby by a controllable incident doesn't descend into a full scale riot.

    The evidence of what I have seen is that of a large upholder of the law calmly extracting the asp and raising it above his head and lashing out like he was under attack from members of a death squad, without warning.

    There are also gardai in that room with no numbers shown whatsoever.

    I am no gardai hater or protest lover for that matter, but if my eyes don't deceive me, theres something going around here...... around here.


  • #191
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭gctest50


    STB. wrote: »
    He should have said stand back, stand back. I have told you to stand back. Do not have me use force.
    Its pretty standard training.....

    how many times is he supposed to say it ?

    he's a garda not an Expressway bus



    STB. wrote: »
    Also you do not extend an asp above your shoulder and strike with your full weight.


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  • #192
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,442 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    Here's a list of freemen successes that makes interesting reading

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land#Freeman_successes

    :D:D:D


  • #193
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    The Guard had time enough, and room enough, to compose himself, put his notebook away and then turn around and face the man and yet still people are suggesting that he was justified in taking out his baton and beating a man about the head and shoulders with it? A man who was not physically threatening him or anyone else? Are you people for real?

    I can't stand the arsehole crowd involved here by the way, have no time for them, but a lot of people on this thread seem to be unable to separate their understandable disdain for these people and their judgement on what is right and what is wrong and what happened here was unquestionably wrong. It was a violent assault and an unprovoked one at that. His reaction was disproportionate, to say the least. But, but, but.. he tried to take his copy book! Seriously? And since when did such an action warrant a violent baton charge?

    Hopefully he'll find himself before the courts.

    One can't help but wonder also, if he is willing to lose his cool so easily, in front of members of the public, many of whom are recording proceedings, what would it take for him to snap in the barracks.


  • #194
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    gctest50 wrote: »
    how many times is he supposed to say it ?

    he's a garda not an Expressway bus


    As many times as possible to deflate a situation.

    You must only use the baton when under threat.

    This guy completely lost it.

    Last time. You DO NOT raise an asp that far above your head.

    Like the comment above, I hate all the hippy socialist over reactionary type people myself, but no one could condone that behaviour. If you cannot control your temper in those situations, you are in the wrong job.

    Ultimately GSOC will call if unreasonable force was used and the penalties.

    Over and out.


  • #195
    corner of hells
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    The Guard had time enough, and room enough, to compose himself, put his notebook away and then turn around and face the man and yet still people are suggesting that he was justified in taking out his baton and beating a man about the head and shoulders with it? A man who was not physically threatening him or anyone else? Are you people for real?

    I can't stand the arsehole crowd involved here by the way, have no time for them, but a lot of people on this thread seem to be unable to separate their understandable disdain for these people and their judgement on what is right and what is wrong and what happened here was unquestionably wrong. It was a violent assault and an unprovoked one at that. His reaction was disproportionate, to say the least. But, but, but.. he tried to take his copy book! Seriously? And since when did such an action warrant a violent baton charge?

    Hopefully he'll find himself before the courts.

    One can't help but wonder also, if he is willing to lose his cool so easily, in front of members of the public, many of whom are recording proceedings, what would it take for him to snap in the barracks.

    All apart from the fact that he was impeded initially while trying to arrest an individual allegedly for assaulting someone.


  • #196
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    There was an arrested man on the ground when the Garda was pushed by the crowd behind him. They were trying to prevent the arrest. That's when he turned and struck the man. Looks to me like a shoulder strike but I'm sure we'll see pictures of the injury soon enough to confirm.

    Can you tell us what is the procedure/training in the use of a baton? As in should the Garda draw his baton and then issue a verbal warning? Or is using it without warning permitted in certain circumstances?


  • #197
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭gctest50


    STB. wrote: »
    As many times as possible to deflate a situation.

    You must only use the baton when under threat.

    This guy completely lost it.

    Last time. You DO NOT raise an asp that far above your head.

    Like the comment above, I hate all the hippy socialist over reactionary type people myself, but no one could condone that behaviour. If you cannot control your temper in those situations, you are in the wrong job.

    Ultimately GSOC will call if unreasonable force was used and the penalties.

    Over and out.

    forum for dat

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1008


  • #198
    Superhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Superhorse


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    The Guard had time enough, and room enough, to compose himself, put his notebook away and then turn around and face the man and yet still people are suggesting that he was justified in taking out his baton and beating a man about the head and shoulders with it? A man who was not physically threatening him or anyone else? Are you people for real?

    I can't stand the arsehole crowd involved here by the way, have no time for them, but a lot of people on this thread seem to be unable to separate their understandable disdain for these people and their judgement on what is right and what is wrong and what happened here was unquestionably wrong. It was a violent assault and an unprovoked one at that. His reaction was disproportionate, to say the least. But, but, but.. he tried to take his copy book! Seriously? And since when did such an action warrant a violent baton charge?

    Hopefully he'll find himself before the courts.

    One can't help but wonder also, if he is willing to lose his cool so easily, in front of members of the public, many of whom are recording proceedings, what would it take for him to snap in the barracks.

    The old man he hit had Parkinson's disease and seemed to be just picking himself off the ground after being knocked down. Shameful to hear anyone defend the action of that particular Garda as he is a terrible example of the fantastic work done by our police force nationwide. If the roles where reversed the old man would be in shackles right now facing court this evening I see no reason why this particular Garda should be above the law.


  • #199
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    Here's a list of freemen successes that makes interesting reading

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land#Freeman_successes
    Linking to rationalwiki is like linking to conservapedia


  • #200
    Darkglasses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,527 ✭✭✭✭Darkglasses


    If I physically interfered with a Garda in the middle of making an arrest, with >20 other people shouting in his face, I'd fully expect a few smacks.


  • #201
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Superhorse wrote: »
    The old man he hit had Parkinson's disease and seemed to be just picking himself off the ground after being knocked down. Shameful to hear anyone defend the action of that particular Garda as he is a terrible example of the fantastic work done by our police force nationwide. If the roles where reversed the old man would be in shackles right now facing court this evening I see no reason why this particular Garda should be above the law.
    If his Parkinson's is so bad why was he pushing against the garda? Was the garda to have assumed that the dick standing beside him pushing and shoving and seemingly trying to take his notebook had a long term illness and treated him differently to any other thug that pushes/shoves/steals?


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  • #202
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,377 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    I'm torn on this one. Whilst I sympathise with the Guard for losing his rag in the face of such verbal and physical provocation whilst trying to go about his job, he also looks to have stepped way over the limit with that lash with the baton. Whatever was going on before the situation had calmed until he ragged the old buck over the neck like that.


  • #203
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,377 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Darkglasses wrote: »
    If I physically interfered with a Garda in the middle of making an arrest, with >20 other people shouting in his face, I'd fully expect a few smacks.

    If this was in America there'd have been people killed.


  • #204
    Superhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Superhorse


    kbannon wrote: »
    If his Parkinson's is so bad why was he pushing against the garda? Was the garda to have assumed that the dick standing beside him pushing and shoving and seemingly trying to take his notebook had a long term illness and treated him differently to any other thug that pushes/shoves/steals?

    IF and it's a big if the old man was shoving and stealing the Garda's notebook he should have simply been arrested, end of. No civil society should except that a member of it's police force should hit someone over the head with a metal bar because they are unable to do their job. They are trained how to deal with those situations and get paid to do a job not act like thugs. Again if the roles where reversed the old man would rightfully be sitting in a cell right now facing court and possible jail time for assault. This Garda or no member of the Gardaí is above the law and we as a society should never except or expect them to be.


  • #205
    Gulliver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭Gulliver


    Jeebus. All I can say is that as a country, we have a lot to bother us if we're whining about a Garda knocking lumps out of a clearly belligerent crowd. People seem to think that opposition to the Gardai is the norm, from the simple flashing of lights for checkpoints (and then wondering why car thieves aren't caught or drunk drivers still mow people down - you just helped them evade the goddamn checkpoint) to thinking that acting like boisterous, disobedient schoolkids quoting bullsh1t legal advice and shouting "peaceful protest" whilst surrounding around an officer of the law is OK.

    I think there are some very stupid laws out there, however I obey them as they apply to everyone. As a nation, we seem to think it's OK to flout any law if we don't agree with it. If you don't like or agree with a law, contact law reform or petition your local TD. Don't act like a bloody spoiled child.


  • #206
    colly4211
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 ✭colly4211


    He got what he was looking for so sick of listening to peaceful protest


  • #207
    hots
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    Superhorse wrote: »
    IF and it's a big if the old man was shoving and stealing the Garda's notebook he should have simply been arrested, end of.

    The Garda was trying to do that with another member of the crowd when the rest of them started to interfere. If he could have easily arrested him he obviously would have.


  • #208
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Superhorse wrote: »
    The old man he hit had Parkinson's disease and seemed to be just picking himself off the ground after being knocked down.
    Where are you getting that nonsense from?


  • #209
    quarefarmers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 ✭quarefarmers


    The guards name and address is doing the rounds on social media.


  • #210
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    quarefarmers wrote: »
    The guards name and address is doing the rounds on social media.

    Bad form, that.

    I don't agree with the Garda's actions, but what possible good can come of that sort of thing?


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  • #211
    hots
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    quarefarmers wrote: »
    The guards name and address is doing the rounds on social media.

    Such a scummy thing to do (to anyone).


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