When is racism actually racism??

ShowMeTheCash · 12-11-2015 10:34AM #1

Was listening to the radio yesterday and granted I really only caught a small fragment of the broadcast but it got me thinking on the subject.

Long story short they had a black female model from Ireland who had been told on different occasions when applying for a job she would not be considered because they where not looking for a black model for the shoot. (Or something to that effect)...

Would you consider this racist?

LDN_Irish · 12-11-2015 10:41AM

No. When working in jobs like modelling the people hiring are looking for people to fit certain parameters and skin colour will be part of that.

Whether there is an lack of demand for black models that stems from a societal undertone of racism is another question (one I wouldn't know the answer to) but the people refusing to hire wouldn't necessarily be racist in your scenario.

sonny.knowles · 12-11-2015 10:44AM

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Was listening to the radio yesterday and granted I really only caught a small fragment of the broadcast but it got me thinking on the subject.

Long story short they had a black female model from Ireland who had been told on different occasions when applying for a job she would not be considered because they where not looking for a black model for the shoot. (Or something to that effect)...

Would you consider this racist?

Any pics going?

MilesMorales1 · 12-11-2015 10:45AM

I wouldn't. Racism is racism when its offensive or seriously discrimination. E.g - not renting a room out to someone based on the colour of the skin, not allowing them access to a pub, etc.

_Brian · 12-11-2015 10:46AM

I would consider that shallow marketing rather than racist.

Company I worked in hired a number of engineering staff from South Africa. Guys with the same skills doing the same jobs and the level of blatant racism shown towards the black workers was shocking. Some learned and stopped showing it but some were terminated based on this.

jamesbere · 12-11-2015 10:47AM

It's not racism, they didn't want a black model for probably a good reason.

ComfortKid · 12-11-2015 10:48AM

If a girl of 20stone weight went I'm sure they could say "Sorry, we are not looking for +size models"
Black people seem to use the race card when anything at all goes against them.

Ghost Buster · 12-11-2015 10:52AM

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Was listening to the radio yesterday and granted I really only caught a small fragment of the broadcast but it got me thinking on the subject.

Long story short they had a black female model from Ireland who had been told on different occasions when applying for a job she would not be considered because they where not looking for a black model for the shoot. (Or something to that effect)...

Would you consider this racist?

No.
Black people, white people, asian people look differently. The modeling industry is all about looks.. Theyre not gonna pick a 5 " black haired latino to model the latest range inspired by The Vikings are they?

kneemos · 12-11-2015 10:53AM

It is a bit racist in fairness. We're not supposed to see the colour band in theory.
Wouldn't blame the people hiring though,more of a marketing thing and reflecting general perceptions.

Ghost Buster · 12-11-2015 10:53AM

Anyone remember the idiotic case years ago where parents of a black kid got in a tizzy cos their son wasnt chosen to be the Milky bar Kid?

Micky Dolenz · 12-11-2015 10:56AM

For a photo shoot where they are looking for a certain type, I wouldn't say it's racist.

Anyone watching Master of none. The Indian guy in Short Circuit is Fisher Stevens ( a white guy) they browned up his face and he put on an accent. That's not cool. The good ould '80's.

ShowMeTheCash · 12-11-2015 10:57AM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Anyone remember the idiotic case years ago where parents of a black kid got in a tizzy cos their son wasnt chosen to be the Milky bar Kid?

There was a Burger King add that ended up getting banned when Burger King launched a new fried chicken wrap. They got Mary J Bleigh to sing for the commercial.

Turns out a black women singing about fried chicken was not a good idea!

ShowMeTheCash · 12-11-2015 10:58AM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

For a photo shoot where they are looking for a certain type, I wouldn't say it's racist.

Anyone watching Master of none. The Indian guy in Short Circuit is Fisher Stevens ( a white guy) they browned up his face and he put on an accent. That's not cool. The good ould '80's.

I remember this same guy that was the bad guy in hackers!

smash · 12-11-2015 11:00AM

Didn't Will Smith try to play the racism card when his daughter was turned down for the part of Annie in the movie remake?

Ghost Buster · 12-11-2015 11:01AM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

For a photo shoot where they are looking for a certain type, I wouldn't say it's racist.

Anyone watching Master of none. The Indian guy in Short Circuit is Fisher Stevens ( a white guy) they browned up his face and he put on an accent. That's not cool. The good ould '80's.

I heard a guy on radio a few weeks back. He runs a group/campaign. I can remember the actual name but its something about Stop White Washing Hollywood. basically looking for Hollywood to cast actors of the actual ethnicity they require rather than just giving white actors slanty eyes or silly accents.
But the point he made which really stopped me in my tracks was that this only happens one way. Its virtually unheard of for a non white person to get 'white faced' for a role.

Bio Mech · 12-11-2015 11:11AM

kneemos wrote: »

It is a bit racist in fairness. We're not supposed to see the colour band in theory.
Wouldn't blame the people hiring though,more of a marketing thing and reflecting general perceptions.

Its sexist too. All those adds for tampons etc only ever have women in them.

Bio Mech · 12-11-2015 11:13AM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

I heard a guy on radio a few weeks back. He runs a group/campaign. I can remember the actual name but its something about Stop White Washing Hollywood. basically looking for Hollywood to cast actors of the actual ethnicity they require rather than just giving white actors slanty eyes or silly accents.
But the point he made which really stopped me in my tracks was that this only happens one way. Its virtually unheard of for a non white person to get 'white faced' for a role.

How do you give a white actor "slanty eyes" exactly?

Ghost Buster · 12-11-2015 11:15AM

Bio Mech wrote: »

How do you give a white actor "slanty eyes" exactly?

Easily!
Latex, steri strips, shading. Any make up artist can do it

12-11-2015 11:15AM

If it's purely for modelling clothes I don't see what skin colour has to do with it tbh.

If it's an acting role based on something that specifies that the character is of a certain race then yeah, you go with that, but modelling? Not too sure what the comeback for that is other than a feeling that people won't perceive the black person as well as the lighter skinned person. Which is racism imo.

Bio Mech · 12-11-2015 11:17AM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Easily!
Latex, steri strips, shading. Any make up artist can do it

Phew. I thought you meant surgically. Thought that was taking things a bit far.

As you might guess I am not a make up artiste.

NachoBusiness · 12-11-2015 11:19AM

smash wrote: »

Didn't Will Smith try to play the racism card when his daughter was turned down for the part of Annie in the movie remake?

They sought a black girl for the role sure.

Grayditch · 12-11-2015 11:19AM

Why not just hire people that the clothes fit on? What a stupid industry anyway.

Bio Mech · 12-11-2015 11:20AM

Liam O wrote: »

If it's purely for modelling clothes I don't see what skin colour has to do with it tbh.

If it's an acting role based on something that specifies that the character is of a certain race then yeah, you go with that, but modelling? Not too sure what the comeback for that is other than a feeling that people won't perceive the black person as well as the lighter skinned person. Which is racism imo.

What if you want to sell a style of clothes that is popular for, lets say, Nigerians. If you put a skinny blonde white Swedish woman would you not be likely fail in reaching your target demographic? Of if you had an ad for fake tan?

Ghost Buster · 12-11-2015 11:23AM

Liam O wrote: »

If it's purely for modelling clothes I don't see what skin colour has to do with it tbh.

If it's an acting role based on something that specifies that the character is of a certain race then yeah, you go with that, but modelling? Not too sure what the comeback for that is other than a feeling that people won't perceive the black person as well as the lighter skinned person. Which is racism imo.

But most times the clothes have a theme or inspiration or a specific look. How many time are willowy, freckly red heads used for rustic autumnal/country attire.
Its a vacuous industry and looks are pivotal

the groutch · 12-11-2015 11:28AM

smash wrote: »

Didn't Will Smith try to play the racism card when his daughter was turned down for the part of Annie in the movie remake?

That's just Will being Will, trying to shove his kids in people's faces to try convince people they're talented.

They're not

kneemos · 12-11-2015 11:28AM

Grayditch wrote: »

Why not just hire people that the clothes fit on? What a stupid industry anyway.

Always get the impression they live inside a box they can't see out of.The models look seriously ill and the clothes look rediculous.
The designers are a bit like popular artists,not necessarily any better than Mr Nobody living in a basement,but popular by virtue of circumstance.

12-11-2015 11:28AM

Bio Mech wrote: »

What if you want to sell a style of clothes that is popular for, lets say, Nigerians. If you put a skinny blonde white Swedish woman would you not be likely fail in reaching your target demographic? Of if you had an ad for fake tan?

Ghost Buster wrote: »

But most times the clothes have a theme or inspiration or a specific look. How many time are willowy, freckly red heads used for rustic autumnal/country attire.
Its a vacuous industry and looks are pivotal

These are good points I guess but telling someone they wont be considered because of their skin colour is crossing the line imo. Would they say that to a brunette when they're looking for a blonde or if there was a tanned latina? It's obviously a horrible industry with regards judging people on looks but to preclude someone based on their skin colour from modelling just doesn't quite sit right with me.

My detectors would lead me to believe that this particular person was just trying to stir up the issue in an attempt to get more work.

OneOfThem · 12-11-2015 11:29AM

Liam O wrote: »

If it's purely for modelling clothes I don't see what skin colour has to do with it tbh.

If it's an acting role based on something that specifies that the character is of a certain race then yeah, you go with that, but modelling? Not too sure what the comeback for that is other than a feeling that people won't perceive the black person as well as the lighter skinned person. Which is racism imo.

Certain colour clothes suit different skin shades better than others, generally. A certain piece of clothing will look better or worse on a pale white girl with blonde hair and green eyes, than a dark skinned black girl with brown eyes and black hair. It's all to do with contrasts and colour wheels and sh1t. So that's one reason that doesn't mean racism.

Also, it will depend on the market. When you're choosing a model you are basically looking for a better looking but reminiscent version of your main customer base. This also isn't racism.

There's a black model today that will land a job because her colouring and look suit the clothes and she will be a realistic aspiration looks wise for the people that will by them. Her age, skin colour, hair colour, over all look, photogenic attitude etc will all play a role in her getting the job over any white girls that show up. That's not racism either.

Modelling is about looks, skin colour is part of someone's look. If they can't handle that go learn accounting or something.

It's no more racism than male models being turned down for female gigs is sexism.

Eugene Norman · 12-11-2015 11:30AM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

For a photo shoot where they are looking for a certain type, I wouldn't say it's racist.

Anyone watching Master of none. The Indian guy in Short Circuit is Fisher Stevens ( a white guy) they browned up his face and he put on an accent. That's not cool. The good ould '80's.

Yes but American television and movies also make fun of non American whites or fake their accents. Or stereotype them.

kneemos · 12-11-2015 11:31AM

NachoBusiness wrote: »

They sought a black girl for the role sure.

Makes sense for an American audience.

silverharp · 12-11-2015 11:31AM

Some people take it to extremes , ive heard its racist to point out that certain population groups in east Africa for example have a genetic advantage when it comes to long distance running. Objectively its measurable and there is no malice in pointing it out. At one stage absurd comments were made that it was because they didn't get the bus to school , which sounds more insulting to everybody

When is racism actually racism??

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