When is racism actually racism??

ShowMeTheCash

Was listening to the radio yesterday and granted I really only caught a small fragment of the broadcast but it got me thinking on the subject.

Long story short they had a black female model from Ireland who had been told on different occasions when applying for a job she would not be considered because they where not looking for a black model for the shoot. (Or something to that effect)...

Would you consider this racist?

LDN_Irish

No. When working in jobs like modelling the people hiring are looking for people to fit certain parameters and skin colour will be part of that.

Whether there is an lack of demand for black models that stems from a societal undertone of racism is another question (one I wouldn't know the answer to) but the people refusing to hire wouldn't necessarily be racist in your scenario.

sonny.knowles

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Was listening to the radio yesterday and granted I really only caught a small fragment of the broadcast but it got me thinking on the subject.

Long story short they had a black female model from Ireland who had been told on different occasions when applying for a job she would not be considered because they where not looking for a black model for the shoot. (Or something to that effect)...

Would you consider this racist?

Any pics going?

MilesMorales1

I wouldn't. Racism is racism when its offensive or seriously discrimination. E.g - not renting a room out to someone based on the colour of the skin, not allowing them access to a pub, etc.

_Brian

I would consider that shallow marketing rather than racist.

Company I worked in hired a number of engineering staff from South Africa. Guys with the same skills doing the same jobs and the level of blatant racism shown towards the black workers was shocking. Some learned and stopped showing it but some were terminated based on this.

jamesbere

It's not racism, they didn't want a black model for probably a good reason.

ComfortKid

If a girl of 20stone weight went I'm sure they could say "Sorry, we are not looking for +size models"
Black people seem to use the race card when anything at all goes against them.

Ghost Buster

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Was listening to the radio yesterday and granted I really only caught a small fragment of the broadcast but it got me thinking on the subject.

Long story short they had a black female model from Ireland who had been told on different occasions when applying for a job she would not be considered because they where not looking for a black model for the shoot. (Or something to that effect)...

Would you consider this racist?

No.
Black people, white people, asian people look differently. The modeling industry is all about looks.. Theyre not gonna pick a 5 " black haired latino to model the latest range inspired by The Vikings are they?

kneemos

It is a bit racist in fairness. We're not supposed to see the colour band in theory.
Wouldn't blame the people hiring though,more of a marketing thing and reflecting general perceptions.

Ghost Buster

Anyone remember the idiotic case years ago where parents of a black kid got in a tizzy cos their son wasnt chosen to be the Milky bar Kid?

Micky Dolenz

For a photo shoot where they are looking for a certain type, I wouldn't say it's racist.


Anyone watching Master of none. The Indian guy in Short Circuit is Fisher Stevens ( a white guy) they browned up his face and he put on an accent. That's not cool. The good ould '80's.

ShowMeTheCash

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Anyone remember the idiotic case years ago where parents of a black kid got in a tizzy cos their son wasnt chosen to be the Milky bar Kid?

There was a Burger King add that ended up getting banned when Burger King launched a new fried chicken wrap. They got Mary J Bleigh to sing for the commercial.

Turns out a black women singing about fried chicken was not a good idea!

ShowMeTheCash

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

For a photo shoot where they are looking for a certain type, I wouldn't say it's racist.


Anyone watching Master of none. The Indian guy in Short Circuit is Fisher Stevens ( a white guy) they browned up his face and he put on an accent. That's not cool. The good ould '80's.

I remember this same guy that was the bad guy in hackers!

smash

Didn't Will Smith try to play the racism card when his daughter was turned down for the part of Annie in the movie remake?

Ghost Buster

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

For a photo shoot where they are looking for a certain type, I wouldn't say it's racist.


Anyone watching Master of none. The Indian guy in Short Circuit is Fisher Stevens ( a white guy) they browned up his face and he put on an accent. That's not cool. The good ould '80's.

I heard a guy on radio a few weeks back. He runs a group/campaign. I can remember the actual name but its something about Stop White Washing Hollywood. basically looking for Hollywood to cast actors of the actual ethnicity they require rather than just giving white actors slanty eyes or silly accents.
But the point he made which really stopped me in my tracks was that this only happens one way. Its virtually unheard of for a non white person to get 'white faced' for a role.

Bio Mech

kneemos wrote: »

It is a bit racist in fairness. We're not supposed to see the colour band in theory.
Wouldn't blame the people hiring though,more of a marketing thing and reflecting general perceptions.

Its sexist too. All those adds for tampons etc only ever have women in them.

Bio Mech

Ghost Buster wrote: »

I heard a guy on radio a few weeks back. He runs a group/campaign. I can remember the actual name but its something about Stop White Washing Hollywood. basically looking for Hollywood to cast actors of the actual ethnicity they require rather than just giving white actors slanty eyes or silly accents.
But the point he made which really stopped me in my tracks was that this only happens one way. Its virtually unheard of for a non white person to get 'white faced' for a role.

How do you give a white actor "slanty eyes" exactly?

Ghost Buster

Bio Mech wrote: »

How do you give a white actor "slanty eyes" exactly?

Easily!
Latex, steri strips, shading. Any make up artist can do it

Liam O

If it's purely for modelling clothes I don't see what skin colour has to do with it tbh.

If it's an acting role based on something that specifies that the character is of a certain race then yeah, you go with that, but modelling? Not too sure what the comeback for that is other than a feeling that people won't perceive the black person as well as the lighter skinned person. Which is racism imo.

Bio Mech

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Easily!
Latex, steri strips, shading. Any make up artist can do it

Phew. I thought you meant surgically. Thought that was taking things a bit far.

As you might guess I am not a make up artiste.

NachoBusiness

smash wrote: »

Didn't Will Smith try to play the racism card when his daughter was turned down for the part of Annie in the movie remake?

They sought a black girl for the role sure.

Grayditch

Why not just hire people that the clothes fit on? What a stupid industry anyway.

Bio Mech

Liam O wrote: »

If it's purely for modelling clothes I don't see what skin colour has to do with it tbh.

If it's an acting role based on something that specifies that the character is of a certain race then yeah, you go with that, but modelling? Not too sure what the comeback for that is other than a feeling that people won't perceive the black person as well as the lighter skinned person. Which is racism imo.

What if you want to sell a style of clothes that is popular for, lets say, Nigerians. If you put a skinny blonde white Swedish woman would you not be likely fail in reaching your target demographic? Of if you had an ad for fake tan?

Ghost Buster

Liam O wrote: »

If it's purely for modelling clothes I don't see what skin colour has to do with it tbh.

If it's an acting role based on something that specifies that the character is of a certain race then yeah, you go with that, but modelling? Not too sure what the comeback for that is other than a feeling that people won't perceive the black person as well as the lighter skinned person. Which is racism imo.

But most times the clothes have a theme or inspiration or a specific look. How many time are willowy, freckly red heads used for rustic autumnal/country attire.
Its a vacuous industry and looks are pivotal

the groutch

smash wrote: »

Didn't Will Smith try to play the racism card when his daughter was turned down for the part of Annie in the movie remake?

That's just Will being Will, trying to shove his kids in people's faces to try convince people they're talented.

They're not

kneemos

Grayditch wrote: »

Why not just hire people that the clothes fit on? What a stupid industry anyway.

Always get the impression they live inside a box they can't see out of.The models look seriously ill and the clothes look rediculous.
The designers are a bit like popular artists,not necessarily any better than Mr Nobody living in a basement,but popular by virtue of circumstance.

Liam O

Bio Mech wrote: »

What if you want to sell a style of clothes that is popular for, lets say, Nigerians. If you put a skinny blonde white Swedish woman would you not be likely fail in reaching your target demographic? Of if you had an ad for fake tan?

Ghost Buster wrote: »

But most times the clothes have a theme or inspiration or a specific look. How many time are willowy, freckly red heads used for rustic autumnal/country attire.
Its a vacuous industry and looks are pivotal

These are good points I guess but telling someone they wont be considered because of their skin colour is crossing the line imo. Would they say that to a brunette when they're looking for a blonde or if there was a tanned latina? It's obviously a horrible industry with regards judging people on looks but to preclude someone based on their skin colour from modelling just doesn't quite sit right with me.

My detectors would lead me to believe that this particular person was just trying to stir up the issue in an attempt to get more work.

OneOfThem

Liam O wrote: »

If it's purely for modelling clothes I don't see what skin colour has to do with it tbh.

If it's an acting role based on something that specifies that the character is of a certain race then yeah, you go with that, but modelling? Not too sure what the comeback for that is other than a feeling that people won't perceive the black person as well as the lighter skinned person. Which is racism imo.

Certain colour clothes suit different skin shades better than others, generally. A certain piece of clothing will look better or worse on a pale white girl with blonde hair and green eyes, than a dark skinned black girl with brown eyes and black hair. It's all to do with contrasts and colour wheels and sh1t. So that's one reason that doesn't mean racism.

Also, it will depend on the market. When you're choosing a model you are basically looking for a better looking but reminiscent version of your main customer base. This also isn't racism.

There's a black model today that will land a job because her colouring and look suit the clothes and she will be a realistic aspiration looks wise for the people that will by them. Her age, skin colour, hair colour, over all look, photogenic attitude etc will all play a role in her getting the job over any white girls that show up. That's not racism either.

Modelling is about looks, skin colour is part of someone's look. If they can't handle that go learn accounting or something.

It's no more racism than male models being turned down for female gigs is sexism.

Eugene Norman

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

For a photo shoot where they are looking for a certain type, I wouldn't say it's racist.


Anyone watching Master of none. The Indian guy in Short Circuit is Fisher Stevens ( a white guy) they browned up his face and he put on an accent. That's not cool. The good ould '80's.

Yes but American television and movies also make fun of non American whites or fake their accents. Or stereotype them.

kneemos

NachoBusiness wrote: »

They sought a black girl for the role sure.

Makes sense for an American audience.

silverharp

Some people take it to extremes , ive heard its racist to point out that certain population groups in east Africa for example have a genetic advantage when it comes to long distance running. Objectively its measurable and there is no malice in pointing it out. At one stage absurd comments were made that it was because they didn't get the bus to school , which sounds more insulting to everybody

RDM_83 again

Ghost Buster wrote: »

I heard a guy on radio a few weeks back. He runs a group/campaign. I can remember the actual name but its something about Stop White Washing Hollywood. basically looking for Hollywood to cast actors of the actual ethnicity they require rather than just giving white actors slanty eyes or silly accents.
But the point he made which really stopped me in my tracks was that this only happens one way. Its virtually unheard of for a non white person to get 'white faced' for a role.

True but on the flipside you get ethnic minorities inserted into historic shows and films to add diversity to time periods that were overwhelmingly mono cultural ( 17th century and after i can excuse but when your watching something set in mediaeval england and there is a random black dude :-\ )

RDM_83 again

.

NachoBusiness

A lot of the black actors being cast in traditional white roles is patronizing I think, as also is the casting of women in male roles . It's motivated by, 'Ah let the black people / women have a go' just so that a smug 'Look how progressive we all are' stance can be adopted. Annie is good example of that I suppose. Even the new Ghostbusters film will see an all female cast. Trivial stuff, granted, but annoying nonetheless.

Should we have a white guy play Shaft next? Or there be a male version of Thelma & Louise? That would be stupid right, and so why is not equally as preposterous when it's women being shoehorn'd into a traditionally male part or a black actor into white one.

Recently a white actor was unbelievably cast as MLK. The playwright objected.

Grayditch

kneemos wrote: »

Always get the impression they live inside a box they can't see out of.The models look seriously ill and the clothes look rediculous.
The designers are a bit like popular artists,not necessarily any better than Mr Nobody living in a basement,but popular by virtue of circumstance.

I've had the misfortune of having to watch a lot of shows about fashion designer, well maybe not lot, but it felt like it. Impertinent sociopathic, spoiled brats. Just once you'd like to see a model lose it and puck the head off one of them.

NoCrackHaving

NachoBusiness wrote: »

A lot of the black actors being cast in traditional white roles is patronizing I think, as also is the casting of women in male roles . It's motivated by, 'Ah let the black people / women have a go' just so that a smug 'Look how progressive we all are' stance can be adopted. Annie is good example of that I suppose. Even the new Ghostbusters film will see an all female cast. Trivial stuff, granted, but annoying nonetheless.

Should we have a white guy play Shaft next? Or there be a male version of Thelma & Louise? That would be stupid right, and so why is not equally as preposterous when it's women being shoehorn'd into a traditionally male part or a black actor into white one.

Recently a white actor was unbelievably cast as MLK. The playwright objected.

I'm just not a fan of remakes of films full stop, just laziness from film studios rather than creating an original movie.

Ghost Buster

RDM_83 again wrote: »

True but on the flipside you get ethnic minorities inserted into historic shows and films to add diversity to time periods that were overwhelmingly mono cultural ( 17th century and after i can excuse but when your watching something set in mediaeval england and there is a random black dude :-\ )

Suspension of disbelief is a wonderful thing!

eviltimeban

Its a tricky one, if they state they aren't looking for a black model, you'd have to ask them "why?" If they are hiring a group of people for a shoot, they should perhaps think about reflecting ethnic variety. It just depends on the product they are selling, but you'd have to ask why a black skinned model wouldn't be able to fulfill the requirments. Are they only hiring white? What about latino or asian?

It's funny, as two of the most famous models there ever were are black (Naomi Campbell and Tyra Banks).

ShowMeTheCash

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Would you consider this racist?

No. I would say the difference between being racist (or sexist or anything like that) is when someone is a fit for the job or requirement - but you do not hire them because of their sex or race.

If however the sex or race or whatever attribute is genuinely one of the requirements in the role - then clearly you should not be expected to hire someone with the wrong fit. If I was making a movie about Barack Obama - would it be racist of me to tell white people they need not apply for the role - or sexist to inform women I will not be needing them either - or ageist to say under 12s should probably also stay out of the auditions?

I would be more concerned with the latent racism in a line like "Black people seem to use the race card when anything at all goes against them." which we have seen on the thread.

_Brian wrote: »

I would consider that shallow marketing rather than racist.

If only it were the marketing world that was shallow. Unfortunately it is more likely that it is the PUBLIC who are shallow and the marketing world has to pander to that to make their money.

It is not that - when marketing a product to a predominantly white society - that it is the marketing company that want to model the product with predominantly white actors or models. It is that the public want to see those products marketed in that way.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

If only it were the marketing world that was shallow. Unfortunately it is more likely that it is the PUBLIC who are shallow and the marketing world has to pander to that to make their money.

Exactly. The marketing sector merely characterizes the public and creates promotional material accordingly. If people have a problem with a specific product or service, don't purchase it.

sonny.knowles

Ghost Buster wrote: »

I heard a guy on radio a few weeks back. He runs a group/campaign. I can remember the actual name but its something about Stop White Washing Hollywood. basically looking for Hollywood to cast actors of the actual ethnicity they require rather than just giving white actors slanty eyes or silly accents.
But the point he made which really stopped me in my tracks was that this only happens one way. Its virtually unheard of for a non white person to get 'white faced' for a role.

White Chicks?

Herb Powell

I've seen far more outraged white people playing the "black people always play the race card" card than I have ever seen black people "playing the race card".

From this, I draw my own conclusion.

Ghost Buster

sonny.knowles wrote: »

White Chicks?

Doesnt count. The entire premise of that movie was black guys attempting to pass as white females. We werent required to accept them as actually being so,

RWCNT

ComfortKid wrote: »

Black people seem to use the race card when anything at all goes against them.

Nice bit of generalisation there. The black people do need to get over themselves.:rolleyes:

Kev W

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Should we have a white guy play Shaft next? Or there be a male version of Thelma & Louise?

Movies about white Private Detectives and male fugitives? Come on, that's just madness.

Turtyturd

Kev W wrote: »

Movies about white Private Detectives and male fugitives? Come on, that's just madness.

But he didn't say that.

RustyNut

Bio Mech wrote: »

Its sexist too. All those adds for tampons etc only ever have women in them.

Kev W

Turtyturd wrote: »

But he didn't say that.

Then I apologise for the factual inaccuracy of my joke.

Duggy747

Few years ago I was called a racist by a hippy when he came into my shop, and struck up a conversation about the stuff on the shelves (IT-related / Headphones). I explained how most of the stock was manufactured in the likes of China or Taiwan.............I didn't say anything remotely racist or derogatory towards Asians or use any phrases, but he took it upon himself to be offended and said: "Jesus, that's very racist of you!!"

Nodin

RDM_83 again wrote: »

True but on the flipside you get ethnic minorities inserted into historic shows and films to add diversity to time periods that were overwhelmingly mono cultural ( 17th century and after i can excuse but when your watching something set in mediaeval england and there is a random black dude :-\ )

"When we think of Tudor England, we don’t immediately imagine black Africans being part of that society. Yet there were Africans here at that time, and they were considered numerous enough in Tudor towns and cities to inspire the phrases “to manie” and “great numbers” in two letters signed by Elizabeth I in July 1596."
http://www.historyextra.com/feature/missing-tudors-black-people-16th-century-England

We may yet uncover letters complaining that "theye dide take of our jobeth" and "have the Skye in all rooms, though they persist on almes"

Nerdlingr

Sure Matt Damon got lambasted for suggesting the winners of a reality show be judged on merit and not skin colour.