Where are cops trained to do this?

Junkyard Tom · 10-11-2015 10:37AM

Maguined wrote: »

Indeed there is nothing more tyrannical in this world than asking to turn down your music.

Read the OP properly.

When the first phone starts recording, the cop has already entered through the threshold of this apartment, the occupants are protesting the right of the officer to enter

Do you know if they refused to turn down the music or not?

No. Jog on.

kneemos · 10-11-2015 10:39AM

Were they hooping and a hollerin.Can't be having that.

If there was high fives I'd go in all guns blazing.

steddyeddy · 10-11-2015 10:42AM

inc21 wrote: »

Moral of the story: don't be a cnut and you won't get arrested.

A similar moral applies to some parts of Dublin. Don't bring attention on yourself and you won't get mugged. I.e victim blaming.

Maguined · 10-11-2015 10:47AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Read the OP properly.

Do you know if they refused to turn down the music or not?

No. Jog on.

This is not a court of law where only proven facts are allowed be discuseed. I think it is a very reasonable thing to assume if the frat had turned down the music the cop would of left and that would of been the end of it.

conorhal · 10-11-2015 10:47AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I wonder what the neighbours thought of it all, probably cheered as the arsehole frat were finally made to shut the **** up.

Yeah, I used thave a bunch of student neighbours that went out 'Thursday student night drinking' every week and then threw an after-party once the clubs closed in their appartment, which typically went on from about 1am till 6am. My sporadic pleas that they at least keep the party indoors and off the balcony where they would roar and hollar half the night were typically ignored with a look of 'shut up you working square;.
If the Guards had ever shown up and pumped 10,000 volts into a couple of those bastards it would have made my year!

Samaris · 10-11-2015 10:48AM

Maguined wrote: »

This is not a court of law where only proven facts are allowed be discuseed. I think it is a very reasonable thing to assume if the frat had turned down the music the cop would of left and that would of been the end of it.

There are also ways and means to go about the situation even if they refuse without raising hell.

Maguined · 10-11-2015 10:50AM

Samaris wrote: »

There are also ways and means to go about the situation even if they refuse without raising hell.

I fully believe the cops could of handled the situation better but so could the frat, if the cop told them there was a noise complaint and they turned down the music I believe the situation would of been resolved.

Junkyard Tom · 10-11-2015 10:54AM

Maguined wrote: »

This is not a court of law where only proven facts are allowed be discuseed. I think it is a very reasonable thing to assume if the frat had turned down the music the cop would of left and that would of been the end of it.

Or maybe the cop is a shape-shifting ogre who rode up there on a Unicorn and had a team of elves infiltrate the apartment to cause trouble?

We're working with what we can see recorded. Even if they had refused to turn down the music would it justify what appears to be home invasion and police brutality? There are surely procedures in place that inhabit the middle ground between doing nothing and the police forcing their way into your home and essentially kidnapping you.

conorhal · 10-11-2015 10:54AM

Samaris wrote: »

There are also ways and means to go about the situation even if they refuse without raising hell.

None quite so satisfying to the sleep deprived though! :pac:

bucketybuck · 10-11-2015 10:56AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

if they had refused to turn down the music would it justify what appears to be home invasion and police brutality?

Yes it would Kent.

NachoBusiness · 10-11-2015 10:57AM

Maguined wrote: »

I fully believe the cops could of handled the situation better but so could the frat, if the cop told them there was a noise complaint and they turned down the music I believe the situation would of been resolved.

And if Rodney King had just pulled over..

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 10-11-2015 11:02AM

stoneill wrote: »

Why didn't they just do as the police officer asked?

This mentality is just rediculous.

Old Mc Donald had a farm,
E-I-E-I-O
And on that farm he had a sheep,
E-I-E-I-O
With a baa baa here
And a baa baa there
Here a baa, there a baa
Everywhere a baa baa
Old MacDonald had a farm
E-I-E-I-O

Junkyard Tom · 10-11-2015 11:06AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yes it would Kent.

Okay let's pretend this fascist fantasy-fap-land exists. If the student said 'My home was being invaded and I felt my life was at risk and that's why I opened fire with my legally held M60 '.

Now, see how that works? What next? The police radio for an air-strike?

Maguined · 10-11-2015 11:09AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Or maybe the cop is a shape-shifting ogre who rode up there on a Unicorn and had a team of elves infiltrate the apartment to cause trouble?

We're working with what we can see recorded. Even if they had refused to turn down the music would it justify what appears to be home invasion and police brutality? There are surely procedures in place that inhabit the middle ground between doing nothing and the police forcing their way into your home and essentially kidnapping you.

I think you missed the key word of my point in that being "reasonable". If you feel ogres and unicorns are as reasonable as suggesting if you obey a cop they tend to leave you alone I think there is very little we can agree on.

The video does not show the start of the incident so we are missing context. I am sure there are such procedures and they are to try and reason with the individuals and convince them to obey the law and the police instructions. This does not seem to have been achieved.

What do you suggest a cop does when responding to a valid noise complaint and the offendor refuses to turn the music down? Walk away and do nothing?

NachoBusiness wrote: »

And if Rodney King had just pulled over..

In the words of Chris Rock "if the cops have to chase you down they are going to bring a can of whoop ass". Some cops will go over the line just as there are bad apples in every job in the world. Once you accept that fact surely the smartest thing to do is never give them a reason to do so?

asherbassad · 10-11-2015 11:10AM

stoneill wrote: »

Why didn't they just do as the police officer asked?

You'll never in your life question the abuse of power will you?
You'll always search for an excuse to acquiesce.

Samaris · 10-11-2015 11:11AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Okay let's pretend this fascist fantasy-fap-land exists. If the student said 'My home was being invaded and I felt my life was at risk and that's why I opened fire with my legally held M60 '.

Now, see how that works? What next? The police radio for an air-strike?

To be fair, if that happened, the student wouldn't get a chance to say anything afterwards, because the half the party that didn't run out screaming would have been shot by the police.

What WOULD happen in that case is that the cop would dive for cover and then radio for all the backup in the area, who would come and would shoot the kid and everyone would say "phew, avoided a mass shooting".

bucketybuck · 10-11-2015 11:11AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Okay let's pretend this fascist fantasy-fap-land exists. If the student said 'My home was being invaded and I felt my life was at risk and that's why I opened fire with my legally held M60 '.

Now, see how that works? What next? The police radio for an air-strike?

What are you even talking about at this stage? You seem angry, did somebody have a party and keep you awake last night?

Maguined · 10-11-2015 11:14AM

asherbassad wrote: »

You'll never in your life question the abuse of power will you?
You'll always search for an excuse to acquiesce.

As it was being recorded what prevented the frat from obeying the cops orders then submitting the video evidence as proof of the abuse of power?

You can acquiesce to the police at the time and lodge your abuse of power complaint after which sounds perfectly reasonable does it not?

10-11-2015 11:14AM

conorhal wrote: »

Yeah, I used thave a bunch of student neighbours that went out 'Thursday student night drinking' every week and then threw an after-party once the clubs closed in their appartment, which typically went on from about 1am till 6am. My sporadic pleas that they at least keep the party indoors and off the balcony where they would roar and hollar half the night were typically ignored with a look of 'shut up you working square;.
If the Guards had ever shown up and pumped 10,000 volts into a couple of those bastards it would have made my year!

Anyone silly enough to live beside a frat house and not know it would be loud deserves 10,000 volts themselves. The lads were not going to cause any violent problems to anyone outside the house and were dragged out and beaten up. Can you tell me how that is fair? Other than ignoring these points because you had a few bad experiences with OFF CAMPUS Irish students.

10-11-2015 11:16AM

Maguined wrote: »

I think you missed the key word of my point in that being "reasonable". If you feel ogres and unicorns are as reasonable as suggesting if you obey a cop they tend to leave you alone I think there is very little we can agree on.

The video does not show the start of the incident so we are missing context. I am sure there are such procedures and they are to try and reason with the individuals and convince them to obey the law and the police instructions. This does not seem to have been achieved.

What do you suggest a cop does when responding to a valid noise complaint and the offendor refuses to turn the music down? Walk away and do nothing?

In the words of Chris Rock "if the cops have to chase you down they are going to bring a can of whoop ass". Some cops will go over the line just as there are bad apples in every job in the world. Once you accept that fact surely the smartest thing to do is never give them a reason to do so?

What was the reasoning here then? Music played too loudly in a college frat house? Give me a break.

Junkyard Tom · 10-11-2015 11:17AM

Maguined wrote: »

Walk away and do nothing?

Maybe issue a written warning that might see the 'offender' sanctioned by the college? A fine? An ASBO? A summons for being a noise nuisance? Expelled from the property by the landlord?

Short of the guy having a warrant for his arrest and the cops having a warrant to enter and seize him they'd no business forcing their way into the house and capturing the noise fugitive.

conorhal · 10-11-2015 11:20AM

Liam O wrote: »

Anyone silly enough to live beside a frat house and not know it would be loud deserves 10,000 volts themselves. The lads were not going to cause any violent problems to anyone outside the house and were dragged out and beaten up. Can you tell me how that is fair? Other than ignoring these points because you had a few bad experiences with OFF CAMPUS Irish students.

Victim blaming? Nice.

Tell anybody that's spent time living next to anti social behaviour that the sleep deprivation isn't destructive to their health and mental wellbeing. You don't nead violent neighbours for your life to descend into a living hell and you know what, nobody is 'entitled' to inflict that on a neighbour.

Plus, since you have no idea what proceded their beatdown you can't really say how well deserved or not it was, from the neighbours perspective however I'd imagine they consider it well earned.

Samaris · 10-11-2015 11:23AM

conorhal wrote: »

Victim blaming? Nice.

....

Plus, since you have no idea what proceded their beatdown you can't really say how well deserved or not it was, from the neighbours perspective however I'd imagine they consider it well earned.

Which is also what you're doing here. -Maybe- the neighbours will think it's well earned (although you can't really say that either), maybe they won't, but it actually doesn't matter. There are rules and laws for how these things are dealt with, and beating the crap out of everyone nearby is not one of them. That isn't a matter of opinion, that is going by the laws of the land.

Maguined · 10-11-2015 11:24AM

Liam O wrote: »

What was the reasoning here then? Music played too loudly in a college frat house? Give me a break.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Maybe issue a written warning that might see the 'offender' sanctioned by the college? A fine? An ASBO? A summons for being a noise nuisance? Expelled from the property by the landlord?

Short of the guy having a warrant for his arrest and the cops having a warrant to enter and seize him they'd no business forcing their way into the house and capturing the noise fugitive.

Yes if a noise complaint was raised that means other people are being bothered by the noise. Whether that is other students trying to study/sleep or other private residents the effect is the same. They made a complaint and they expect the police to stop it. Your answer is for the police to issue a written warning aka walk away and do nothing while the neighbhours that made the complaint just have to suck it up and accept the fact that the frat is allowed break the law by playing music too loudly and you want the police to not be able to deal with it apart from a written complaint?

Mickeroo · 10-11-2015 11:28AM

Are people still not allowed become police officers in the states if they have a high IQ? Or was that rule ever actually enforced in the end?

Junkyard Tom · 10-11-2015 11:31AM

Maguined wrote: »

Your answer is for the police to issue a written warning aka walk away and do nothing

Issuing a written warning is not 'doing nothing'. Issuing a summons is not 'doing nothing'. Threatening the student/occupier with college expulsion is not 'doing nothing'.

Ease off on the Steven Segal movies lads.

10-11-2015 11:32AM

conorhal wrote: »

Victim blaming? Nice.

Tell anybody that's spent time living next to anti social behaviour that the sleep deprivation isn't destructive to their health and mental wellbeing. You don't nead violent neighbours for your life to descend into a living hell and you know what, nobody is 'entitled' to inflict that on a neighbour.

Plus, since you have no idea what proceded their beatdown you can't really say how well deserved or not it was, from the neighbours perspective however I'd imagine they consider it well earned.

Hahahaha! Who's the victim? I think the correct word for faux outrage is to use "shaming" these days. I have had loud housemates and people being loud at night outside my house. It's not fun but I was living with people in their early 20s and it was in a city location. I wasn't a victim of anything because I should know what I'm getting into in that situation. Same as people who live on fraternity row in a college should know there will be noise, just like the police.

asherbassad · 10-11-2015 11:34AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The injustice of being asked to step outside an apartment?

It's not exactly Birmingham 6 territory.

Give me all the money in your wallet, please.
You are perfectly within your rights to refuse my polite request but you'll be an asshole upstart if you exercise this right and refuse.

Qualitymark · 10-11-2015 11:37AM

Why do American (and some French) cops do this kind of thing?

It's our culture, boss.

Whereas in Ireland a lot of gardaí still, to their honour, work by the terms set up by O'Duffy and Staines:

"The Garda Síochána will succeed not by force of arms or numbers, but on their moral authority as servants of the people."

asherbassad · 10-11-2015 11:42AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Attempt to gain thanks? I think you are projecting there, some people over the age of five don't care about "thanks".

Face it, nobody cares about a bunch of tossers annoying the whole neighbourhood with loud parties, if the guards would take the same approach over here I would certainly give them thanks.

And if it was your daughter in her first year in college and got her teeth smashed in by some narcissistic thug cop coming the heavy at a house party you'd tell your swollen and toothless little girl to always respect cops no matter what they say or do, right? She should NEVER question authority, act like a young person or stand up for herself.

Where are cops trained to do this?

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