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Where are cops trained to do this?

  • 10-11-2015 08:10AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭




    Cops at University of Alabama respond to noise complaint. A simple civil upset that many people on this forum would be familiar with (often begrudging the fact that Gardai can't/won't do much).

    So obviously, this being the USA in 2015, coming over to ask a bunch of college students to turn down the noise, progressed into staged assault, forced entry, tazing, and baton-beating. Three officers are now on administrative leave.

    When the first phone starts recording, the cop has already entered through the threshold of this apartment, the occupants are protesting the right of the officer to enter (who cannot, afaik, enter without permission for a simple noise complaint) who is holding someone's arm.

    This goes on for the next 2 minutes. Basically, this cop knows he is in the wrong. If he was validated and justified, he would wait outside for backup who would re-start the interaction from there and cooler heads prevail. Instead, the cop loses his head and falsely accuses an occupant of grabbing *his* arm, grabs the occupant's shirt, and enters a 'stalemate', even acts the child with the ol' foot in the door gag. What's wrong here too, is that he places the guy under a false arrest for 'touching his arm' which is 1) empirically false and 2) the weakest reason to arrest someone I've ever heard of. Even in a close quarters situation like this: if you brush up against someone, that does not qualify as an assault to commit a battery. Someone please tell me if they can find news reports of someone in jail for "touching a cop on the arm/shoulder etc" (keep it clean AH). You'll more than likely come up with some greater offense. But bottom line, he wants to try and arrest the teen not because he feels threatened.

    At 2 minutes into the video, the officer makes eye contact with something (someone, the backup officers) outside. He then immediately gives up the stalemate, and jumps into the house as if he has been dragged in by the occupant. This triggers the raid.

    From additional angles provided by other apartments, we can see that some of them have been drug outside, thrown against the wall, tazed, and instead of being handcuffed at any point leading up to THAT, are ****ing beaten in the ribs with a nightstick.

    When another woman who is still in the apartment asks why there are so many officers, one cop shouts, "Shut your ****ing mouth." When he walks away, someone in the apartment says, "I'm glad this is all on video." The officer responds, "I don't give a ****." Another officer tells the students still inside the apartment to go upstairs or they will be arrested too.

    The first officer, without question, is completely wrong. That's not even the most troubling part - it's the fact that the reaction of the cops who just arrived on the scene is to do the tazing and the beating. These are cops, they are college students. The closest thing they have to a deadly weapon is a beer pong ball. I just can't put myself in the shoes of the 2nd/3rd officer who thought it made any sense to use the nightstick. Is it like a ****ing dog chasing a ****ing squirrel? A pitbull chasing a tennis ball? I don't get it. I just don't.

    Apparently the students have decided to give this #FratLivesMatter.. which when you think about it, makes the same point #BlackLivesMatter does, but for college students (and therefore more of "my parents' money" vibe).


«1345678

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭Nichard Dixon


    Did the noise stop?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭stoneill


    Why didn't they just do as the police officer asked?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    When the first phone starts recording, the cop has already entered through the threshold of this apartment, the occupants are protesting the right of the officer to enter (who cannot, afaik, enter without permission for a simple noise complaint) who is holding someone's arm.

    so a significant part of it is missing then?


  • Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The students didn't help themselves, the refusal to go with the policeman, the hysterical woman repeatedly screaming "why are you acting like this" (no wonder there was a noise complaint!), shouting "get out", trying to forcibly close the door on him (which seems to be the main trigger). But perhaps right that they be suspended while it is all investigated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Police forces everywhere are becoming more militaristic in there behaviour and actions,also with people now knowing more about there rights, it's becoming like a new war on who is actuall breaking the law here, gone are the days when a quite word would do the trick.

    Suppose having war on drugs and war on terrorism does not help the police mindset either.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭joe swanson


    Context is everything


  • Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    realies wrote: »
    Police forces everywhere are becoming more militaristic in there behaviour and actions,also with people now knowing more about there rights, it's becoming like a new war on who is actuall breaking the law here, gone are the days when a quite word would do the trick.

    Huh?

    That's a bit of revisionism. If anything, gone are the days when every issue was dealt with by a beating. I'm not saying that was good, merely I don't remember the quiet word era. And, perhaps connected with the reduction in the use of force, every interaction seems to be greeted with hysteria, mobile phones and challenges to their authority. Which is fine too...but it's hard for a policeman to deal with a situation and face a cross examination from hysterical people and not reach a "yerra fek this" point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Context is everything

    If you've been following the Overheal show you know I love context, but this is a noise complaint, there is plenty of context, and you can't 'context' the fact that the cop jumped into the apartment, or that they tazed and beat someone; you have all that context right there. I can't imagine any pre-recording interaction that could justify what happened in the video, but invite others to indulge me.
    so a significant part of it is missing then?

    For sure. But what could be missing that allows the behavior seen in the video? The officer knows he's being recorded at this point, common sense to me is that he would verbally redress the events leading up to that point if he felt he was in the right (eg. "There are drugs here! etc") but, that is not the case, and no mention is made at any time of any illegal activity except for touching the officer's arm, and according to Tuscaloosa police officials, a noise complaint.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Huh?

    That's a bit of revisionism. If anything, gone are the days when every issue was dealt with by a beating. I'm not saying that was good, merely I don't remember the quiet word era. And, perhaps connected with the reduction in the use of force, every interaction seems to be greeted with hysteria, mobile phones and challenges to their authority. Which is fine too...but it's hard for a policeman to deal with a situation and face a cross examination from hysterical people and not reach a "yerra fek this" point.

    It's hard for people to remain calm as bystanders when they see injustice - perceived injustice - right before their eyes and they know they live in a legal system that will protect that officer more than it will protect them. If officers were treated with the direct accountability we would all calmly let them do their job and go on their way. But, cops can literally get away with murder, and I live right up the road from one such spot. Hell I ate there today, actually. Bet your ass I'll be a lot less trusting of my local police.


  • Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Overheal wrote: »
    It's hard for people to remain calm as bystanders when they see injustice - perceived injustice - right before their eyes and they know they live in a legal system that will protect that officer more than it will protect them.

    The injustice of being asked to step outside an apartment?

    It's not exactly Birmingham 6 territory.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The injustice of being asked to step outside an apartment?

    It's not exactly Birmingham 6 territory.

    OK so they are asked to step outside and do not wish to, they are not being detained or arrested, they have the universal human right to security of person, and the constitutional "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" ("no Warrants shall [be issued], but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized".

    As already stated, a noise ordnance is a civil offense that does not carry with it the power of arrest. The cop may, at best, write the gentleman a citation and assign a fine. No probable cause for any higher crime was declared in the video that I saw (drug use, underage drinking, etc) but you can now look forward to multiple sworn testimonies of the students inside, compared to the one cop's.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,700 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    I wonder what the neighbours thought of it all, probably cheered as the arsehole frat were finally made to shut the **** up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    The injustice of being asked to step outside an apartment?

    It's not exactly Birmingham 6 territory.

    The second he was beyond the apartment door threshold he was tasered and beaten severely with a baton.

    That surely invalidates your entire point. He was absolute right to not want to step outside.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I wonder what the neighbours thought of it all, probably cheered as the arsehole frat were finally made to shut the **** up.

    :confused: ... they videotaped it.... bet you even the person calling the complaint in didn't expect his neighbor to be beaten and tazed for playing music too loudly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,700 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Overheal wrote: »
    :confused: ... they videotaped it....

    They? Somebody videotaped it. I doubt that person speaks for all the neighbours.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    They? Somebody videotaped it. I doubt that person speaks for all the neighbours.

    Do you hear cheering? Your attempt to gain thanks on your first reply fall a little flat given the baseless nature of your comment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,700 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Overheal wrote: »
    Do you hear cheering? Your attempt to gain thanks on your first reply fall a little flat given the baseless nature of your comment.

    Attempt to gain thanks? I think you are projecting there, some people over the age of five don't care about "thanks".

    Face it, nobody cares about a bunch of tossers annoying the whole neighbourhood with loud parties, if the guards would take the same approach over here I would certainly give them thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 535 ✭✭✭NoCrackHaving


    You have to remember that in swathes of the USA police forces are incredibly poorly trained. This is even more of an issue with rural and small town departments. They genuinely don't know how to deal with a situation without using force, it doesn't even occur to them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Face it, nobody cares about a bunch of tossers annoying the whole neighbourhood with loud parties, if the guards would take the same approach over here I would certainly give them thanks.

    Come to America then if you like the risk of getting spontaneously tazed for listening to Dream Weaver too loudly in your own apartment. We have less taxes and more flavors of pop-tart.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 241 ✭✭Stranger Danger


    the hysterical woman repeatedly screaming "why are you acting like this"

    I wonder is it the same woman who travels to all these type of incidents.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,700 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Overheal wrote: »
    Come to America then if you like the risk of getting spontaneously tazed for listening to Dream Weaver too loudly in your own apartment. We have less taxes and more flavors of pop-tart.

    I have respect for other people so I wouldn't be listening to music too loud in my apartment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 512 ✭✭✭inc21


    Moral of the story: don't be a cnut and you won't get arrested.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I have respect for other people so I wouldn't be listening to music too loud in my apartment.

    Maybe you'd prefer to be the one kicking in doors and nightsticking people then?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    stoneill wrote: »
    Why didn't they just do as the police officer asked?

    The seed of tyranny. 'Just do as you're told'. Don't ask questions. Don't try to exercise your rights.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,700 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Overheal wrote: »
    Maybe you'd prefer to be the one kicking in doors and nightsticking people then?

    Where did I say that? More projecting on your part I suspect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Be as obtuse as you want. I sincerely hope it never happens to you or someone you know; leaving it at that.
    stoneill wrote: »
    Why didn't they just do as the police officer asked?

    Because an arrest for a noise complaint is an overreach. The cop was the first to the scene. He made calls/actions. He was fairly challenged on them. He should have waited for backup to arrive to corroborate his position, by another officer looking at the situation with fresh eyes. He needs a 2nd officer to make the arrest anyway! Happens a lot at border stops for instance, the front-line guys check the vehicles, as soon as someone "asserts their rights, asks if they're being detained etc" the answer is not "beat the window in" it's "call the supervisor" who then arrives on the scene to address the escalation calmly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    Face it, nobody cares about a bunch of tossers annoying the whole neighbourhood with loud parties, if the guards would take the same approach over here I would certainly give them thanks.

    Thankfully the Gardaí don't go around battering people just to give holier than thou internet warriors something to fap to.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,247 ✭✭✭Maguined


    The seed of tyranny. 'Just do as you're told'. Don't ask questions. Don't try to exercise your rights.

    Indeed there is nothing more tyrannical in this world than asking to turn down your music.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Power will always be abused by some people. Seen the Guards do much worse when I was growing up. Much worse. Stuff that should have seen them do time and a lot of it. Other Guards were more than aware and stood by as that is the nature of cop stations. Most have their focus on their careers and even when they don't approve of what their colleagues do, they will keep schtum so as not to cause waves which could effect their progressing.

    The reason that cop wanted to pull the guy outside was because outside he had more control over him and was less restricted in what he could and could not ask him to do. Piece of crap with a badge and I don't believe that anything significant occurred before the footage began that remotely warranted what occurred. If the student assaulted him, then he would have said so and being very specific about it but he wasn't at all and everything the cop did suggested that he hadn't been assaulted. He clearly wished he had been though, as that would have justified what he went on to do.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Who do (should, maybe!) you expect more common sense and ability to deal with people in a sane and reasonable manner from - the police or a bunch of college kids? College kids can be brats, yes, but it's absolutely ridiculous to escalate a "have you no homes to go to" situation to a "call an ambulance" scenario.


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