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Athletics doping

  • 09-11-2015 05:42PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/34765444

    What do people make of this, Do we think it's just Russia alone or more widespread. Do we think that Russia will take this as another slight and a political move in relation to the actions in Ukraine.


«13

Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    I imagine the sport as a whole is pretty riddled, not just in Russia.

    Tennis is the exact same but unfortunately nothing will ever be done about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,706 ✭✭✭valoren


    It's about time Rob Heffernan got a bronze in the Racewalking from London 2012.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    As if Lance Armstrong could have been the first man to cycle to the Moon without something in his blood.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,226 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    I imagine the sport as a whole is pretty riddled, not just in Russia.

    Tennis is the exact same but unfortunately nothing will ever be done about it.

    There are a fair questions around soccer as well.
    AFAIK Italian soccer players from 70s have a higher chance of cancer than the general population.
    And then there was the likes of Juventus and their pharmacy.

    Only 30% of Dr Fuentes clients were cyclists.
    What were the other 70% in Spain ?

    At this stage it can be taken as a given most sports have some skeletons.
    Hell remember the old beta blockers in snooker.

    Sport is now riddled.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,839 ✭✭✭Schwiiing


    I have an unshakeable belief that Barcelona were on something while Pep was manager.

    They pumped growth hormones into Messi when he was a kid.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,129 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    They're all at it, not just Russia. They can't really do anything about it though because it so widespread that the entire sport would lose all credibility and collapse and that could never be allowed to happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,908 ✭✭✭blue note


    Sport is riddled without a doubt. And I don't think a lot of the sporting organisations have the appetite for the fight against doping so just turn a blind eye to it.

    I remember hearing that the Spanish doctor who treated Lance Armstrong gave his files to the Americans for examination, but then they destroyed the rest (files on other athletes he was treating) because they weren't connected to the investigation. I'm not pointing the finger at any high endurance, highly successful athletes and teams that Spain have produced though. Sure they're probably fine?

    But I actually think sport is just riddled with drugs. I often feel sorry for cycling that it's got the worst name in world sport for it when lots of sports are probably similarly bad.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    I'd also worry about Steroid use in rugby, you'd just hope that's not the next big sports scandal to blow up. There's already been rumblings in France.

    I look at certain people sometimes and I do wonder.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    blue note wrote: »
    Sport is riddled without a doubt. And I don't think a lot of the sporting organisations have the appetite for the fight against doping so just turn a blind eye to it.

    I remember hearing that the Spanish doctor who treated Lance Armstrong gave his files to the Americans for examination, but then they destroyed the rest (files on other athletes he was treating) because they weren't connected to the investigation. I'm not pointing the finger at any high endurance, highly successful athletes and teams that Spain have produced though. Sure they're probably fine?

    But I actually think sport is just riddled with drugs. I often feel sorry for cycling that it's got the worst name in world sport for it when lots of sports are probably similarly bad.

    You're talking about the Fuentes affair. It was an investigation by a judge in Spain of a doctor who helped athletes to dope. IIRC cycling was the target of the investigation but blood from other athletes was found named using codes. The judge ordered the blood destroyed and no attempt at identification to be made.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,908 ✭✭✭blue note


    Clearlier wrote: »
    You're talking about the Fuentes affair. It was an investigation by a judge in Spain of a doctor who helped athletes to dope. IIRC cycling was the target of the investigation but blood from other athletes was found named using codes. The judge ordered the blood destroyed and no attempt at identification to be made.

    Thanks, I'm sure you're right about what I'm talking about. An absolute disgrace clearly anyway!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Hopefully Seb Coe can sort out this mess but it will be very difficult. Sport in general is such huge business now that corruption is now sadly widespread. Cycling, football, athletics you name it.

    I have a lot of respect for Seb Coe as I watched him as a kid and always wanted him to win over the likes of Steve ovett.

    Maybe it's time to just let everyone drug themselves to the eyeballs and be done with it. ;-)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Premier League soccer players still going well in late 30s.
    Manager comment "he looks after himself very well". :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    What do people make of this, Do we think it's just Russia alone or more widespread..

    Much more widespread.

    Dick Pound (eh... phrasing), sounded out Kenya as having issues.

    The Salt Lake City Olympics are also under investigation I believe..... I imagine more will follow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭wexandproud


    Clearlier wrote: »
    You're talking about the Fuentes affair. It was an investigation by a judge in Spain of a doctor who helped athletes to dope. IIRC cycling was the target of the investigation but blood from other athletes was found named using codes. The judge ordered the blood destroyed and no attempt at identification to be made.

    cycling was the targeted sport and i recall something about some of the top tennis players and a few golfers names being implemented but then it was all brushed aside and a lot of samples destroyed but the investigation concentrated on cyclists.
    personally i think doping is rampant in a lot of sports


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 996 ✭✭✭1eg0a3xv7b82of


    I'd also worry about Steroid use in rugby, you'd just hope that's not the next big sports scandal to blow up. There's already been rumblings in France.

    I look at certain people sometimes and I do wonder.

    i have been suspicious of rugby for a long time, its the recovery rates.
    How is it possible for massive men to hit each other hard for 80 minutes and then do it all again the next week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,208 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Hopefully Seb Coe can sort out this mess but it will be very difficult. Sport in general is such huge business now that corruption is now sadly widespread. Cycling, football, athletics you name it.

    I have a lot of respect for Seb Coe as I watched him as a kid and always wanted him to win over the likes of Steve ovett.

    Maybe it's time to just let everyone drug themselves to the eyeballs and be done with it. ;-)
    Seb Coe wasn't interested in catching dopers, he wanted it brushed under the carpet. He has no choice now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭Littlehorny


    It is rife through the whole of sports, don't know why the Russians have been singled out. The Yanks have been at it for decades and has anyone else noticed how the Chinese have exploded in winning things in the last ten years in sports where they had absolutely no history in doing well in before?


  • Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    timthumbni wrote: »
    I have a lot of respect for Seb Coe as I watched him as a kid and always wanted him to win over the likes of Steve ovett.

    Oh noooooo

    I always thought of Coe as sort of the darling son of the establishment, whereas Ovett was the scrapper from the wrong side of the tracks. I mean, even the names gave it away, Sebastian or Steve...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    It is rife through the whole of sports, don't know why the Russians have been singled out. The Yanks have been at it for decades and has anyone else noticed how the Chinese have exploded in winning things in the last ten years in sports where they had absolutely no history in doing well in before?

    That is because they (China) had an obscene Olympic programme for 2008. Kids all over the country were being thrown into Olympic programmes.

    But yeah, It wouldnt surprise me either in terms of doping.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    I imagine the sport as a whole is pretty riddled, not just in Russia.

    Tennis is the exact same but unfortunately nothing will ever be done about it.

    Rafa Nadal is a beauty. Ever since the Operation Puerto trial started in 2013 he has won 3 Majors (2 of those in 2013). He won 11 before that.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭wexandproud


    Rafa Nadal is a beauty. Ever since the Operation Puerto trial started in 2013 he has won 3 Majors (2 of those in 2013). He won 11 before that.
    he was mentioned as was federer


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,151 ✭✭✭Lirange


    It is rife through the whole of sports, don't know why the Russians have been singled out.


    Evidence. Too much to ignore. There was a German documentary that blew the lid off. Not just on athletes and coaches. In Russia's case we're talking about systemic state sponsored doping. There are even documents with Putin's signature.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,706 ✭✭✭valoren


    diomed wrote: »
    Premier League soccer players still going well in late 30s.
    Manager comment "he looks after himself very well". :rolleyes:

    It's the daily yoga ;)


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Cut through sport like the letters in a stick of rock. Actually I'd go so far as to say that pretty much all of the very top elite are juicing to some degree or other. Cycling was the whipping boy in many ways. Well they were so cocksure and so bloody obvious about it. Plus it was known as a sport that had major issues with it. Now before drugs like EPA the drugs on offer didn't enhance performance that much(mostly it was stimulants to keep them awake, because before the really big money hit and grand tours were concentrated on, a pro cyclist was in the saddle day in day out for the season). A squeaky clean rider could win and it certainly didn't turn a carthorse into a racehorse. Even so a couple like Moser used blood doping openly in track record attempts before it was banned.

    Then EPO and blood doping really kicked in. Suddenly also rans were climbing the rankings. Easy way without tests to spot high likelihood dopers in the Rour De France? Look at their results the first time they raced in it. Before EPO and the like the Tour winners always showed very high in the rankings from the get go. EG Greg Lemond, barely out of his teens on his first bloody go came third. All the pre blood doping greats; Merckx, Hinault, Fignon, Anquetil and others all placed very high out of the gate and of course went on to win outright. Then we have the 90's… and the noughties and… and today. For fun check the results of the winners from say 1990 and match it to their first outings. Compare and contrast… Armstrong was a strong mid field rider, a solid cyclist that could hope to lead breakaways, get stage wins and a couple of Classics, but Grand Tours? Not a hope. Then as if by magic and "training" he racks up seven of the buggers? Indeed. The problem with EPO etc is that it isn't a rising tide that lifts all boats. It doesn't mean that guys who would have won or have been at the back all stay in the same placing and the races go faster. Different people respond differently and some are super responders as whistleblowers have pointed out. Armstrong was a good example.

    Now do I respect Armstrong's feats? Oh sure. He and others torture themselves for miles and miles year in year out, suffer injuries, may even risk death. Drugs or not it takes huge effort and dedication, but the plain fact is he and the others are cheats and a liars.

    Oh and the latest blood passports can be beaten and a helluva lot of the so called "clean" passports look bloody suspicious, but again blind eyes are turned, just like they were when it was farcically obvious and they had the blind faced gall to claim it was clean. Too much money involved.

    But as I say cycling was the whipping boy, but track and field etc are all dirty. There are clean athletes and my respect is huge for them, but…

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Now do I respect Armstrong's feats? Oh sure. He and others torture themselves for miles and miles year in year out, suffer injuries, may even risk death.
    No respect whatsoever. He wasn't just one of many. He took doping to a whole new level. And people died. And he has never repented. The only thing remorse was about getting caught.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Oh noooooo

    I always thought of Coe as sort of the darling son of the establishment, whereas Ovett was the scrapper from the wrong side of the tracks. I mean, even the names gave it away, Sebastian or Steve...
    Well that and being a Tory MP back in the 90's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Don't really care about doping in sport.

    There is nothing essentially noble about sport (despite sport trying to tell you it is).Sport is just another form of entertainment like TV,Cinema and as long as the participants understand what they are taking and the potential affects of it then I don't see the big deal over it.

    Sport is inherently unfair to begin with and athletics in particular is as the results are pre determined by genetics.How is it fair that Usain Bolt is clearly a freak of nature and competing against people who weren't lucky enough to have his good genes.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    They're all at it, not just Russia. They can't really do anything about it though because it so widespread that the entire sport would lose all credibility and collapse and that could never be allowed to happen.
    That's exactly what should happen, and sooner rather than later. Otherwise they will never regain the credibility.

    The International Weightlifting Federation restructured its weight classes in 1993 and 1998, nullifying earlier records. No prizes for guessing why.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭wexandproud


    No respect whatsoever. He wasn't just one of many. He took doping to a whole new level. And people died. And he has never repented. The only thing remorse was about getting caught.

    and he sucked in people from all around him and anyone who dared to question his results or doping he also destroyed .. fcuking w...er of the highest order


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Only one way to settle this lads: Drago v Rocky


This discussion has been closed.
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