Athletics doping

darkpagandeath

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/34765444

What do people make of this, Do we think it's just Russia alone or more widespread. Do we think that Russia will take this as another slight and a political move in relation to the actions in Ukraine.

yerwanthere123

I imagine the sport as a whole is pretty riddled, not just in Russia.

Tennis is the exact same but unfortunately nothing will ever be done about it.

valoren

It's about time Rob Heffernan got a bronze in the Racewalking from London 2012.

Junkyard Tom

As if Lance Armstrong could have been the first man to cycle to the Moon without something in his blood.

jmayo

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

I imagine the sport as a whole is pretty riddled, not just in Russia.

Tennis is the exact same but unfortunately nothing will ever be done about it.

There are a fair questions around soccer as well.
AFAIK Italian soccer players from 70s have a higher chance of cancer than the general population.
And then there was the likes of Juventus and their pharmacy.

Only 30% of Dr Fuentes clients were cyclists.
What were the other 70% in Spain ?

At this stage it can be taken as a given most sports have some skeletons.
Hell remember the old beta blockers in snooker.

Sport is now riddled.

Schwiiing

I have an unshakeable belief that Barcelona were on something while Pep was manager.

They pumped growth hormones into Messi when he was a kid.

ceadaoin.

They're all at it, not just Russia. They can't really do anything about it though because it so widespread that the entire sport would lose all credibility and collapse and that could never be allowed to happen.

blue note

Sport is riddled without a doubt. And I don't think a lot of the sporting organisations have the appetite for the fight against doping so just turn a blind eye to it.

I remember hearing that the Spanish doctor who treated Lance Armstrong gave his files to the Americans for examination, but then they destroyed the rest (files on other athletes he was treating) because they weren't connected to the investigation. I'm not pointing the finger at any high endurance, highly successful athletes and teams that Spain have produced though. Sure they're probably fine?

But I actually think sport is just riddled with drugs. I often feel sorry for cycling that it's got the worst name in world sport for it when lots of sports are probably similarly bad.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I'd also worry about Steroid use in rugby, you'd just hope that's not the next big sports scandal to blow up. There's already been rumblings in France.

I look at certain people sometimes and I do wonder.

Clearlier

blue note wrote: »

Sport is riddled without a doubt. And I don't think a lot of the sporting organisations have the appetite for the fight against doping so just turn a blind eye to it.

I remember hearing that the Spanish doctor who treated Lance Armstrong gave his files to the Americans for examination, but then they destroyed the rest (files on other athletes he was treating) because they weren't connected to the investigation. I'm not pointing the finger at any high endurance, highly successful athletes and teams that Spain have produced though. Sure they're probably fine?

But I actually think sport is just riddled with drugs. I often feel sorry for cycling that it's got the worst name in world sport for it when lots of sports are probably similarly bad.

You're talking about the Fuentes affair. It was an investigation by a judge in Spain of a doctor who helped athletes to dope. IIRC cycling was the target of the investigation but blood from other athletes was found named using codes. The judge ordered the blood destroyed and no attempt at identification to be made.

blue note

Clearlier wrote: »

You're talking about the Fuentes affair. It was an investigation by a judge in Spain of a doctor who helped athletes to dope. IIRC cycling was the target of the investigation but blood from other athletes was found named using codes. The judge ordered the blood destroyed and no attempt at identification to be made.

Thanks, I'm sure you're right about what I'm talking about. An absolute disgrace clearly anyway!

timthumbni

Hopefully Seb Coe can sort out this mess but it will be very difficult. Sport in general is such huge business now that corruption is now sadly widespread. Cycling, football, athletics you name it.

I have a lot of respect for Seb Coe as I watched him as a kid and always wanted him to win over the likes of Steve ovett.

Maybe it's time to just let everyone drug themselves to the eyeballs and be done with it. ;-)

diomed

Premier League soccer players still going well in late 30s.
Manager comment "he looks after himself very well". :rolleyes:

BoJack Horseman

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What do people make of this, Do we think it's just Russia alone or more widespread..

Much more widespread.

Dick Pound (eh... phrasing), sounded out Kenya as having issues.

The Salt Lake City Olympics are also under investigation I believe..... I imagine more will follow.

wexandproud

Clearlier wrote: »

You're talking about the Fuentes affair. It was an investigation by a judge in Spain of a doctor who helped athletes to dope. IIRC cycling was the target of the investigation but blood from other athletes was found named using codes. The judge ordered the blood destroyed and no attempt at identification to be made.

cycling was the targeted sport and i recall something about some of the top tennis players and a few golfers names being implemented but then it was all brushed aside and a lot of samples destroyed but the investigation concentrated on cyclists.
personally i think doping is rampant in a lot of sports

1eg0a3xv7b82of

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'd also worry about Steroid use in rugby, you'd just hope that's not the next big sports scandal to blow up. There's already been rumblings in France.

I look at certain people sometimes and I do wonder.

i have been suspicious of rugby for a long time, its the recovery rates.
How is it possible for massive men to hit each other hard for 80 minutes and then do it all again the next week.

Cienciano

timthumbni wrote: »

Hopefully Seb Coe can sort out this mess but it will be very difficult. Sport in general is such huge business now that corruption is now sadly widespread. Cycling, football, athletics you name it.

I have a lot of respect for Seb Coe as I watched him as a kid and always wanted him to win over the likes of Steve ovett.

Maybe it's time to just let everyone drug themselves to the eyeballs and be done with it. ;-)

Seb Coe wasn't interested in catching dopers, he wanted it brushed under the carpet. He has no choice now.

Littlehorny

It is rife through the whole of sports, don't know why the Russians have been singled out. The Yanks have been at it for decades and has anyone else noticed how the Chinese have exploded in winning things in the last ten years in sports where they had absolutely no history in doing well in before?

timthumbni

timthumbni wrote: »

I have a lot of respect for Seb Coe as I watched him as a kid and always wanted him to win over the likes of Steve ovett.

Oh noooooo

I always thought of Coe as sort of the darling son of the establishment, whereas Ovett was the scrapper from the wrong side of the tracks. I mean, even the names gave it away, Sebastian or Steve...

Richard Hillman

Littlehorny wrote: »

It is rife through the whole of sports, don't know why the Russians have been singled out. The Yanks have been at it for decades and has anyone else noticed how the Chinese have exploded in winning things in the last ten years in sports where they had absolutely no history in doing well in before?

That is because they (China) had an obscene Olympic programme for 2008. Kids all over the country were being thrown into Olympic programmes.

But yeah, It wouldnt surprise me either in terms of doping.

Richard Hillman

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

I imagine the sport as a whole is pretty riddled, not just in Russia.

Tennis is the exact same but unfortunately nothing will ever be done about it.

Rafa Nadal is a beauty. Ever since the Operation Puerto trial started in 2013 he has won 3 Majors (2 of those in 2013). He won 11 before that.

wexandproud

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Rafa Nadal is a beauty. Ever since the Operation Puerto trial started in 2013 he has won 3 Majors (2 of those in 2013). He won 11 before that.

he was mentioned as was federer

Lirange

Littlehorny wrote: »

It is rife through the whole of sports, don't know why the Russians have been singled out.

Evidence. Too much to ignore. There was a German documentary that blew the lid off. Not just on athletes and coaches. In Russia's case we're talking about systemic state sponsored doping. There are even documents with Putin's signature.

valoren

diomed wrote: »

Premier League soccer players still going well in late 30s.
Manager comment "he looks after himself very well". :rolleyes:

It's the daily yoga

Wibbs

Cut through sport like the letters in a stick of rock. Actually I'd go so far as to say that pretty much all of the very top elite are juicing to some degree or other. Cycling was the whipping boy in many ways. Well they were so cocksure and so bloody obvious about it. Plus it was known as a sport that had major issues with it. Now before drugs like EPA the drugs on offer didn't enhance performance that much(mostly it was stimulants to keep them awake, because before the really big money hit and grand tours were concentrated on, a pro cyclist was in the saddle day in day out for the season). A squeaky clean rider could win and it certainly didn't turn a carthorse into a racehorse. Even so a couple like Moser used blood doping openly in track record attempts before it was banned.

Then EPO and blood doping really kicked in. Suddenly also rans were climbing the rankings. Easy way without tests to spot high likelihood dopers in the Rour De France? Look at their results the first time they raced in it. Before EPO and the like the Tour winners always showed very high in the rankings from the get go. EG Greg Lemond, barely out of his teens on his first bloody go came third. All the pre blood doping greats; Merckx, Hinault, Fignon, Anquetil and others all placed very high out of the gate and of course went on to win outright. Then we have the 90's… and the noughties and… and today. For fun check the results of the winners from say 1990 and match it to their first outings. Compare and contrast… Armstrong was a strong mid field rider, a solid cyclist that could hope to lead breakaways, get stage wins and a couple of Classics, but Grand Tours? Not a hope. Then as if by magic and "training" he racks up seven of the buggers? Indeed. The problem with EPO etc is that it isn't a rising tide that lifts all boats. It doesn't mean that guys who would have won or have been at the back all stay in the same placing and the races go faster. Different people respond differently and some are super responders as whistleblowers have pointed out. Armstrong was a good example.

Now do I respect Armstrong's feats? Oh sure. He and others torture themselves for miles and miles year in year out, suffer injuries, may even risk death. Drugs or not it takes huge effort and dedication, but the plain fact is he and the others are cheats and a liars.

Oh and the latest blood passports can be beaten and a helluva lot of the so called "clean" passports look bloody suspicious, but again blind eyes are turned, just like they were when it was farcically obvious and they had the blind faced gall to claim it was clean. Too much money involved.

But as I say cycling was the whipping boy, but track and field etc are all dirty. There are clean athletes and my respect is huge for them, but…

Capt'n Midnight

Wibbs wrote: »

Now do I respect Armstrong's feats? Oh sure. He and others torture themselves for miles and miles year in year out, suffer injuries, may even risk death.

No respect whatsoever. He wasn't just one of many. He took doping to a whole new level. And people died. And he has never repented. The only thing remorse was about getting caught.

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh noooooo

I always thought of Coe as sort of the darling son of the establishment, whereas Ovett was the scrapper from the wrong side of the tracks. I mean, even the names gave it away, Sebastian or Steve...

Well that and being a Tory MP back in the 90's.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Don't really care about doping in sport.

There is nothing essentially noble about sport (despite sport trying to tell you it is).Sport is just another form of entertainment like TV,Cinema and as long as the participants understand what they are taking and the potential affects of it then I don't see the big deal over it.

Sport is inherently unfair to begin with and athletics in particular is as the results are pre determined by genetics.How is it fair that Usain Bolt is clearly a freak of nature and competing against people who weren't lucky enough to have his good genes.

Capt'n Midnight

ceadaoin. wrote: »

They're all at it, not just Russia. They can't really do anything about it though because it so widespread that the entire sport would lose all credibility and collapse and that could never be allowed to happen.

That's exactly what should happen, and sooner rather than later. Otherwise they will never regain the credibility.

The International Weightlifting Federation restructured its weight classes in 1993 and 1998, nullifying earlier records. No prizes for guessing why.

wexandproud

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

No respect whatsoever. He wasn't just one of many. He took doping to a whole new level. And people died. And he has never repented. The only thing remorse was about getting caught.

and he sucked in people from all around him and anyone who dared to question his results or doping he also destroyed .. fcuking w...er of the highest order

efb

Only one way to settle this lads: Drago v Rocky

Son Of A Vidic

Littlehorny wrote: »

It is rife through the whole of sports, don't know why the Russians have been singled out. The Yanks have been at it for decades and has anyone else noticed how the Chinese have exploded in winning things in the last ten years in sports where they had absolutely no history in doing well in before?

Most of the stars of the US team at the 1984 (boycotted by USSR) Los Angeles Olympics were rumoured to have failed drugs tests, but it was conveniently brushed under the carpet..

Plryty

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Don't really care about doping in sport.

There is nothing essentially noble about sport (despite sport trying to tell you it is).Sport is just another form of entertainment like TV,Cinema and as long as the participants understand what they are taking and the potential affects of it then I don't see the big deal over it.

Sport is inherently unfair to begin with and athletics in particular is as the results are pre determined by genetics.How is it fair that Usain Bolt is clearly a freak of nature and competing against people who weren't lucky enough to have his good genes.

Genetics is only a single factor in the success of any world athletes talent. Are you actually trying to argue that genetics is the sole determinant of a gold medalist being world champion?

feargale

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Sport is inherently unfair to begin with and athletics in particular is as the results are pre determined by genetics.

Goodbye, Miss World.

P.S. I'll never play conkers again.

ThisRegard

Littlehorny wrote: »

It is rife through the whole of sports, don't know why the Russians have been singled out.

Two Russian whistle blowers stepped forward, they weren't just randomly singled out for investigation.

_Brian

The problem is there is no outlet for sportspeople who want to push themselves with the aid of drugs.

What we need are alternative Olympics where anything goes. Let the shoot up any auld crap and give the 100m a go.

It would leave the proper Olympics to be clean.

It'll never happen though as I'd suspect the Steroid Olympics would get much better viewing figures. I mean, who wouldn't want to see the 100m done in sub 5 seconds.

callaway92

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Don't really care about doping in sport.

There is nothing essentially noble about sport (despite sport trying to tell you it is).Sport is just another form of entertainment like TV,Cinema and as long as the participants understand what they are taking and the potential affects of it then I don't see the big deal over it.

What????

In Boxing/MMA the worst case scenario is that someone who is on PEDs KOs there opponent which somehow leads to a career ending concussion etc. Imagine if the fighter that caused the injury failed post-fight drug tests? Disaster the either sport.

Doping, as hard as it is to be rid of 100% needs to be grinded out of all sports - However, it is rife in all sports at ALL levels.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, Bigger, Stronger, Faster focuses on steroid use and how it is just breezed over/almost glamourised in some places. (The Arnold Classic in Weightlifting don't even test :rolleyes: )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O77cVVOFqbE

The Sidewards Man

They are all off their heads now, these iron men and women are on the yolks also.

acb121

Plryty wrote: »

Genetics is only a single factor in the success of any world athletes talent. Are you actually trying to argue that genetics is the sole determinant of a gold medalist being world champion?

When a person of genetic white European origin wins the 100 meters running at a future Olympics, I might take you a bit more seriously.

Plryty

acb121 wrote: »

When a person of genetic white European origin wins the 100 meters running at a future Olympics, I might take you a bit more seriously.

expand on your point.

XR3i

_Brian wrote: »

The problem is there is no outlet for sportspeople who want to push themselves with the aid of drugs.

What we need are alternative Olympics where anything goes. Let the shoot up any auld crap and give the 100m a go.

It would leave the proper Olympics to be clean.

It'll never happen though as I'd suspect the Steroid Olympics would get much better viewing figures. I mean, who wouldn't want to see the 100m done in sub 5 seconds.

i did the 100m in 7.1 seconds on ketamine

Plryty

callaway92 wrote: »

What????

In Boxing/MMA the worst case scenario is that someone who is on PEDs KOs there opponent which somehow leads to a career ending concussion etc. Imagine if the fighter that caused the injury failed post-fight drug tests? Disaster the either sport.

Doping, as hard as it is to be rid of 100% needs to be grinded out of all sports - However, it is rife in all sports at ALL levels.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, Bigger, Stronger, Faster focuses on steroid use and how it is just breezed over/almost glamourised in some places. (The Arnold Classic in Weightlifting don't even test :rolleyes: )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O77cVVOFqbE

The weight lifting community sport events are one of the only popular areas where steroid use is not outright frowned upon by the supporters. They are there to be the strongest and/or in incredible shape. It's under the table understood that this will involve using steroids.

They still put in s disgusting amount of work.

Dirty Dingus McGee

callaway92 wrote: »

What????

In Boxing/MMA the worst case scenario is that someone who is on PEDs KOs there opponent which somehow leads to a career ending concussion etc. Imagine if the fighter that caused the injury failed post-fight drug tests? Disaster the either sport.

Doping, as hard as it is to be rid of 100% needs to be grinded out of all sports - However, it is rife in all sports at ALL levels.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, Bigger, Stronger, Faster focuses on steroid use and how it is just breezed over/almost glamourised in some places. (The Arnold Classic in Weightlifting don't even test :rolleyes: )

Boxers at always at risk of a career ending concussion regardless of whether there are drugs involved.

acb121

Plryty wrote: »

expand on your point.

From Wikipedia

" Olympic 100 m medalists in the early editions of the Modern Olympic Games were principally white, Western sprinters of European descent, largely reflecting the make up of the nations that took part.

As the Olympic competition began to attract wider international participation, athletes with African heritage began to reach the 100 m Olympic podium, particularly African-Americans and Afro-Caribbeans.[85]

Eddie Tolan became the first non-white winner of the event in 1932 and this signified the start of a prolonged period of success by black male sprinters; since 1932 only five men's Olympic champions in the event have not had significant African heritage.

The women's event was dominated by runners of European descent until Wilma Rudolph won the title in 1960. Soviet and German women returned to the podium in the period from 1972 to 1980, but since then African-American and Jamaican women have won the great majority of 100 m medals.[85]

Dominance in the men's event has been particularly pronounced from 1984 to 2012, during which time all the men's Olympic 100 m finalists have been of African heritage.[86]

Most commentators attribute this statistical discrepancy to genetic rather than to cultural factors. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres_at_the_Olympics#Race

Dirty Dingus McGee

Plryty wrote: »

Genetics is only a single factor in the success of any world athletes talent. Are you actually trying to argue that genetics is the sole determinant of a gold medalist being world champion?

In some sports it plays a massive role.

From Wikipedia: As part of the build-up to the 2012 Summer Olympics, Michael Johnson made a documentary, Survival of the Fastest, for Channel 4 which investigated the dominance of Afro-American and Afro-Caribbean sprinters.The program made the controversial suggestion that a side effect of the slave trade may have been to accelerate natural selection as only the very fittest could survive the brutal process, resulting in a population predisposed to superior athletic performance.In 1988, Jimmy "the Greek" Snyder was fired from his job at CBS Sports for making similar claims.

I remember watching that Michael Johnson documentary and it pretty much confirmed what I would think most people had a fair idea of already.It took a lot longer for a white European to do do the 100m in 10 seconds compared to black athletes and in a sport where there isn't a huge skill factor genetics play a massive role.

acb121

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres

" Only male sprinters have beaten the 100 m 10-second barrier, nearly all of them being of West African descent.

Namibian (formerly South-West Africa) Frankie Fredericks became the first man of non-West African heritage to achieve the feat in 1991 and in 2003 Australia's Patrick Johnson (who has Irish and Indigenous Australian heritage) became the first sub-10-second runner without an African background.[11][12][13][14]

In the Prefontaine Classic 2015 Diamond League meet at Eugene, Su Bingtian ran a time of 9.99 seconds, becoming the first Asian athlete to officially break the 10-second barrier. In the 2015 Birmingham Grand Prix Diamond League meet, British athlete Adam Gemili, who is of mixed Iranian and Moroccan descent, ran a time of 9.97 seconds on home soil, becoming the first athlete with either North African or Middle Eastern heritage to break the ten-second barrier.[15]

Of the six men's continental record holders, currently three of them were born in Nigeria.

It is believed that biological factors may be largely responsible for the notable success in sprinting events enjoyed by athletes of West African descent. This includes:[16]

Relatively less subcutaneous fat on arms and legs and proportionately more lean body and muscle mass, broader shoulders, larger quadriceps, and bigger, more developed musculature in general;

Denser, shallower chests;

Higher center of gravity, generally shorter sitting height, narrower hips, and lighter calves;

Longer arm span and "distal elongation of segments" – the hand is relatively longer than the forearm, which in turn is relatively longer than the upper arm; the foot is relatively longer than the tibia (leg), which is relatively longer than the thigh;

Faster patellar tendon reflex;

Greater body density, which is likely due to higher bone mineral density and heavier bone mass at all stages in life, including infancy (despite evidence of lower calcium intake and a higher prevalence of lactose intolerance, which prevents consumption of dairy products);

Modestly, but significantly, higher levels of plasma testosterone (3-19 percent), which is anabolic, theoretically contributing to greater muscle mass, lower fat, and the ability to perform at a higher level of intensity with quicker recovery;

The ACTN3 protein, a "speed gene" most common among persons of West African descent that renders fast twitch muscle fibers fast. African American 200 m and 400 m world champion Michael Johnson has suggested that the presence of ACTN3 is at the root of the success of these athletes in sprinting events;[17][18]

And finally, a higher percentage of fast-twitch muscle fibers (Type II) and more anaerobic enzymes, which can translate into more explosive energy. The enzyme creatine kinase is abundantly expressed in these fibers. The enzyme rapidly regenerates the biological fuel molecule ATP needed for the sprint. The enzyme has been reported to be twice as high in subjects of sub-Saharan African descent.[19] Creatine kinase is the final common pathway of muscle activity. It is tightly bound to the muscle fibers and directly fuels fast muscle contraction. Therefore, the creatine kinase system is considered to be the major factor, downstream of other factors, that modulates the biological capacity to sprint.[20]

Top sprinters of differing ancestry, such as Christophe Lemaitre, are believed to be exceptions in that they too likely have the genes favourable for sprinting.[18]

Colin Jackson, an athlete with mixed ethnic background and former world record holder in the 110 metre hurdles,[21] noted that both his parents were talented athletes and suggested that biological inheritance was the greatest influence, rather than any perceived racial factor. Furthermore, successful black role models in track events may reinforce the racial disparity.[22] "

Plryty

And what about the African descendent runners who don't make it to the finals, or are beaten by non African descent. Do these show less genetically favourable features for running that can attribute to their loss?

Cause if so. That would seem to uncomfortably suggest a very rigid framework based on racial genetic inheritance that may not be limited to just sports.

acb121

You sound a little angry.

Nobody is suggesting all black people are fast runners. There are millions of people of such african ancestry. No doubt some of them love to stuff their face with chocolate and sit in front of the telly.

At the highest echelons of sport, be it the 100 metres sprint, or Formula 1, or mens tennis, the difference between winning and losing is wafer thin. A tennis player can score more points, win more games, but lose the match. A Formula 1 driver can do the fastest laps, but a few hundreths of a second on a pitstop could cost him the race if he comes out behind his rival. A runner can join the race on the A of the BANG! instead of the B.

Just as Formula 1 relies on attention to the tiniest of detail, some people involved in sports involving the human body do all sorts of things to gain the wafer thin edge. Their food is literally measured and weighed before each serving. They train at altitude. They manipulate their weight and body fat. Their injuries are treated at sub zero temperatures or underwater.

Anything to get that razor thin advantage.

Some people have that razor thin advantage through birth.

It would be ridiculous to deny otherwise.

Otherwise why are we even having a discussion about people taking drugs to try and gain that razor thin advantage over folk more talented or simly more naturally gifted than themselves ?

Christy42

Plryty wrote: »

And what about the African descendent runners who don't make it to the finals, or are beaten by non African descent. Do these show less genetically favourable features for running that can attribute to their loss?

Cause if so. That would seem to uncomfortably suggest a very rigid framework based on racial genetic inheritance that may not be limited to just sports.

It is a tendency that really only shows up because everything else involved is a given (diet, hard work, other genetic factors). If you took a random segment of the population it is doubtful you would see much of a difference between people of different races. The actual difference it causes seems to be small enough but races at an olympic level are decided by milliseconds so it seems massive. There are other factors that mean that not every African decendent runner can be Bolt. It is noticed only because we only look at the highest level of sport. How much would you notice if you 0.001 faster over a hundred meters?

In fact it is probably smaller than it seems from the numbers as there is probably some confidence effect and an encouragement effect. I don't think New Zealanders are genetically predisposed to being great at rugby but they always churn out incredible players due to the two above factors. Given most people won't achieve their limit in terms of sport (this includes living 100% as a professional athlete in terms of training and diet).

As for the topic. Sport is rife with drugs but most agencies learnt their lesson from cycling. What cost cycling so much wasn't the athletes doing drugs, it was getting caught. They are all too afraid to check in case they find something (and probably figure they would). Imagine the effect (not suggesting in the slightest especially given their character) if someone like Roy Keane or Brian O'Driscoll was caught? Their sports would take a nose dive in this country and that would go all over the world for players like Messi or McCaw. It is against their interests to check.

callaway92

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Boxers at always at risk of a career ending concussion regardless of whether there are drugs involved.

If found to be after their opponent was on PEDs it's a different story, especially if it's more than a career ending injury.

wexandproud

acb121 wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres

" Only male sprinters have beaten the 100 m 10-second barrier, nearly all of them being of West African descent.

Namibian (formerly South-West Africa) Frankie Fredericks became the first man of non-West African heritage to achieve the feat in 1991 and in 2003 Australia's Patrick Johnson (who has Irish and Indigenous Australian heritage) became the first sub-10-second runner without an African background.[11][12][13][14]

In the Prefontaine Classic 2015 Diamond League meet at Eugene, Su Bingtian ran a time of 9.99 seconds, becoming the first Asian athlete to officially break the 10-second barrier. In the 2015 Birmingham Grand Prix Diamond League meet, British athlete Adam Gemili, who is of mixed Iranian and Moroccan descent, ran a time of 9.97 seconds on home soil, becoming the first athlete with either North African or Middle Eastern heritage to break the ten-second barrier.[15]

Of the six men's continental record holders, currently three of them were born in Nigeria.

It is believed that biological factors may be largely responsible for the notable success in sprinting events enjoyed by athletes of West African descent. This includes:[16]

Relatively less subcutaneous fat on arms and legs and proportionately more lean body and muscle mass, broader shoulders, larger quadriceps, and bigger, more developed musculature in general;

Denser, shallower chests;

Higher center of gravity, generally shorter sitting height, narrower hips, and lighter calves;

Longer arm span and "distal elongation of segments" – the hand is relatively longer than the forearm, which in turn is relatively longer than the upper arm; the foot is relatively longer than the tibia (leg), which is relatively longer than the thigh;

Faster patellar tendon reflex;

Greater body density, which is likely due to higher bone mineral density and heavier bone mass at all stages in life, including infancy (despite evidence of lower calcium intake and a higher prevalence of lactose intolerance, which prevents consumption of dairy products);

Modestly, but significantly, higher levels of plasma testosterone (3-19 percent), which is anabolic, theoretically contributing to greater muscle mass, lower fat, and the ability to perform at a higher level of intensity with quicker recovery;

The ACTN3 protein, a "speed gene" most common among persons of West African descent that renders fast twitch muscle fibers fast. African American 200 m and 400 m world champion Michael Johnson has suggested that the presence of ACTN3 is at the root of the success of these athletes in sprinting events;[17][18]

And finally, a higher percentage of fast-twitch muscle fibers (Type II) and more anaerobic enzymes, which can translate into more explosive energy. The enzyme creatine kinase is abundantly expressed in these fibers. The enzyme rapidly regenerates the biological fuel molecule ATP needed for the sprint. The enzyme has been reported to be twice as high in subjects of sub-Saharan African descent.[19] Creatine kinase is the final common pathway of muscle activity. It is tightly bound to the muscle fibers and directly fuels fast muscle contraction. Therefore, the creatine kinase system is considered to be the major factor, downstream of other factors, that modulates the biological capacity to sprint.[20]

Top sprinters of differing ancestry, such as Christophe Lemaitre, are believed to be exceptions in that they too likely have the genes favourable for sprinting.[18]

Colin Jackson, an athlete with mixed ethnic background and former world record holder in the 110 metre hurdles,[21] noted that both his parents were talented athletes and suggested that biological inheritance was the greatest influence, rather than any perceived racial factor. Furthermore, successful black role models in track events may reinforce the racial disparity.[22] "

if athletes of african descent are such prime examples of athletic ability how come an awful lot of the top ones have tested positive or had questionable results . The very same line was trotted out about armstrong over the years , oh his lung capacity is this and his genetics are that and his recovery is due to something else .... turns out it was all from a test tube
i firmly believe doping is rampant in most sport and testing should start at national level , there was a story years ago that tester arrived at a soccer ground ,somebody ran in to the dressing rooms and said it , some lads are still running . Now an awful lot of people will say that's crap and maybe it is but an awful lot of the stories about cycling were denied for years .. and guess what