Begrudgery

07-11-2015 03:51PM

blinding wrote: »

And whats wrong with the Racing Post. If people want to squander their money Gambling then thats up to them you….snob….(actually I don't care);)

It's not that there's anything wrong with reading the Racing Post, it's that there's something wrong with NOT reading the Racing Post when thats what everybody else does.

Peoples first thought is that you regard yourself as above it, not that you simply have no interest in it.

steddyeddy · 07-11-2015 03:52PM

PowerToWait wrote: »

Let's be honest. This thread is a vehicle to highlight your 'success'.

We all know how you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps etc. Well done.

Is that begrudging enough?

Yea that's typical alright

Mister Vain · 07-11-2015 03:53PM

PowerToWait wrote: »

We all know how you pulled yourself

:P

ancapailldorcha · 07-11-2015 03:54PM

Candie wrote: »

It's not that there's anything wrong with reading the Racing Post, it's that there's something wrong with NOT reading the Racing Post when thats what everybody else does.

Peoples first thought is that you regard yourself as above it, not that you simply have no interest in it.

Thank you for communicating my point in a much cleaner and more efficient manner than I did.

steddyeddy · 07-11-2015 03:54PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Who exactly is shutting down these discussions?

The same idiots that make the same comment every thread. It's not shutting down the threads but it is indicative of an unwillingness to deal with the subject matter. Also class doesn't come into this thread unless you really want it to.

ancapailldorcha · 07-11-2015 03:56PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The same idiots that make the same comment every thread. It's not shutting down the threads but it is indicative of an unwillingness to deal with the subject matter. Also class doesn't come into this thread unless you really want it to.

Not true. If a man from a poor council house in Ballymun scrimped and saved to go to University and ended up becoming a millionaire during the IT boom then can you honestly say that he's part of the same class as the average social welfare recipient?

07-11-2015 03:58PM

This is really about insecurities I think. People project theirs onto you if they feel you're moving ahead of them in some way they feel they're lacking.

If you're a highly educated person, the first thing a person who's insecure about their own level of education will do is downgrade the significance or worth of further education. You hear it often, she/he might have a PhD, but they have no real life smarts! etc. I think, like snobbery, that begrudgery is sometimes insecurity misinterpreted.

KomradeBishop · 07-11-2015 04:03PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You can apply this logic to a lot of what gets posted on the internet. Take the new James Bond film. It would surprise me if there were plenty of comments from people saying that it didn't interest them or Craig is terrible in the role, etc... Why post then?

You're not challenging my claim here, that people post like that, to dissuade discussion of class-based topics - you're only claiming that people do that for other types of topic too.

So - implicitly (though I suspect you'll roll back and deny it), you're acknowledging that people are trying to dissuade discussion of this kind of topic, as you're trying to shift attention to people doing it to other types of topic too.

So your original question "Who exactly is shutting down these discussions?" is answered, and you've acknowledged that answer, by implicitly accepting people are trying to dissuade discussion of the topic.

Tarzana2 · 07-11-2015 04:14PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The same idiots that make the same comment every thread. It's not shutting down the threads but it is indicative of an unwillingness to deal with the subject matter. Also class doesn't come into this thread unless you really want it to.

How many times do you need this thrashed out though? You say you've never started a thread on the subject of begrudgery but to be honest, it's in the same vein as a lot of your threads. I don't think it's healthy to be so preoccupied with class and snobbery and social standing. It indicates a real chip on one's shoulder and an inferiority complex about one's background. And a lot of your own posts are quite snobbish and elitist in their own way; running down people's academic achievements, considering other degree subjects inferior to the sciences, thinking that PhDs are the smartest of the smart etc. etc.

sonny.knowles · 07-11-2015 04:17PM

Candie wrote: »

This is really about insecurities I think. People project theirs onto you if they feel you're moving ahead of them in some way they feel they're lacking.

If you're a highly educated person, the first thing a person who's insecure about their own level of education will do is downgrade the significance or worth of further education. You hear it often, she/he might have a PhD, but they have no real life smarts! etc. I think, like snobbery, that begrudgery is sometimes insecurity misinterpreted.

My opinions on education are based on my experience in software development for more than 15 years.

I honestly can't see a benefit or a point in most people doing an IT related PhD.

It's not going to make someone a better software developer, it just inflates the persons salary expectations.

We also need to differentiate between those who do a PhD before gaining experience versus those who go back to college.

Isaiah · 07-11-2015 04:19PM

There is loads of it about in Dublin. I remember when I left my job to go to into a dream job(for my line of work), when I told my colleagues I was leaving they reacted normally, but when they asked why and I told them that I got X job the jealousy coming out of some of them was palpable. A few of them just stopped talking to me from that moment. These are people I would talk to regularly before hand, not as friends but always as friendly work colleagues.

As soon as they saw me progressing with my career they changed their tune.

KomradeBishop · 07-11-2015 04:23PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

How many times do you need this thrashed out though? You say you've never started a thread on the subject of begrudgery but to be honest, it's in the same vein as a lot of your threads. I don't think it's healthy to be so preoccupied with class and snobbery and social standing. It indicates a real chip on one's shoulder and an inferiority complex about one's background. And a lot of your own posts are quite snobbish and elitist in their own way; running down people's academic achievements, considering other degree subjects inferior to the sciences, thinking that PhDs are the smartest of the smart etc. etc.

It's none of your business what people are 'preoccupied' with tbh (not that I'm agreeing, with any accusations of being preoccupied) - people can start a thread on whatever they like.

The above indicates more, that you have a problem with this kind of topic - especially with how you try to cast personal aspersions for bringing it up.

steddyeddy · 07-11-2015 04:29PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Not true. If a man from a poor council house in Ballymun scrimped and saved to go to University and ended up becoming a millionaire during the IT boom then can you honestly say that he's part of the same class as the average social welfare recipient?

Right please forget class. Let's say two professionals of the same class live adjacent to each other on a street. One dies slightly better through hard work and buys a new car. The other might begrudge him/her that.

I'm not talking exclusively about low income to high income.

Tarzana2 · 07-11-2015 04:30PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

It's none of your business what people are 'preoccupied' with tbh

It's my business if I wish it to be, as this is a discussion board. Just likes it's anyone's business to comment upon my own posting history if they so wish.

I don't have a problem with the subject matter of the thread, I just don't see the point in the OP starting multiple threads on the same kinds of things, especially as he seems so obdurate in his views. What is the point?

Isaiah · 07-11-2015 04:45PM

Where are the Mods in this arguement about who can start threads on what? Why does nearly every thread have to have a few people trying to shut it down or undermine it's validity?

Surely this should be a moderators job. It really disrupts the discussion of the topic and the thread ends up looking like the Journal.ie comments section where everyone is bickering about everything BUT the topic raised in the OP.

ThinkProgress · 07-11-2015 05:05PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

"resentment of any person who has achieved success or wealth"- Irish

This was brought up a few times in my last thread. My mother always told me progress in Ireland and England and they'll resent it but rise up in America and they'll pat you on the back. I only experienced this once or twice so I think it's exaggerated. Is this something you've experienced?

Yep, it's very true. And sadly our country is worse than most others I've lived in. Shower of jealous begrudging wa**ers on this island.

Also a heavy under current of schadenfreude permeates this society too!

kneemos wrote: »

You can be as successful as you like,just be humble.

Bullsh!t...

Most who begrudge will do so regardless of how humble you are! You even get resentment for being too nice or clean-cut in this country... you gotta have dirt on you or be damaged/suffering in some way for people to respect you.

That's why the art of self-deprecation is essential if you want to survive among the hordes in this land.

Hulk Hands · 07-11-2015 05:10PM

Banjo String wrote: »

To think this is unique to ireland is a bit of an exaggeration op, I can think of loads of successful business people that get constant ridicule in their own country also.

Simon Cowell.
Donald Trump.

Both successful in their own rights, and both constantly on the receiving end of criticism in their own respective homelands.

The fact that they both are a pair of bellends is purely coincidental, but you get my sentiments .

Cowell I agree with. Don't think he's a bellend at all either.

But Trump? The current favorite going around twitter is that if he simply invested his inheritance from his father in an index fund when he received it, he'd have more money today. Someone with the money, contacts, name and situation left to him would have to have been an utter idiot not to be very wealthy today.

KERSPLAT! · 07-11-2015 05:26PM

Mod

The thread is about Begrudgery. If you have issues with what threads are allowed or not allowed in AH PM a mod or Cmod or take it to Helpdesk or Feedback. If you have issues with particular posts or threads that posters start then report the post, don't drag the thread off topic.

Back on topic please.

Thelomen Toblackai · 07-11-2015 05:39PM

The whole Irish begrudgery thing is just completely overblown. The main Irish past-time is actually whinging. Here we are whinging about begrudgery.

jd1983 · 07-11-2015 07:56PM

It's completely exaggerated in an Irish context. In some situations I think there should be more begrudgery, I certainly begrudge the likes of seanie fitzpatrick or certain nama developers continuing with their lifestyle despite reeking havoc on a lot of people's lives. Often people in Ireland admire successful people (cute hoor crap) who have amassed their gains by fuking over other people rather than begrudge them

ThinkProgress · 07-11-2015 08:39PM

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

The whole Irish begrudgery thing is just completely overblown. The main Irish past-time is actually whinging. Here we are whinging about begrudgery.

Begrudgery and whinging are almost the same thing in this part of the world...

People feel more comfortable when they have something/someone to b!tch about. It's easier than dealing with their reality!

I think it has a lot to do with our religious/spiritual history. Belief in the supernatural opens the door to many other superstitious behaviors... which then naturally leads to things like "luck", "good/bad fortune" etc.

When you believe your destiny is out of your control, it's quite natural that you will begrudge those that appear to be benefiting from better luck/fortune/circumstances than YOU.

This is a self-perpetuating cycle, and most successful people understand that their success is 99% about what they do. (or don't do)... And their mental approach frames this.

I've seen people use their begrudery/jealousy to fuel their success. But imo that always leads to a hollow victory in the end, because once you've got the spoils of victory... you're still left with that major flaw in your personality. (and as life will show you, no amount of "things" can fix that particular problem)

People who are prone to begrugdery and jealousy usually end up becoming a prisoner to those "things" they acquire. They don't own those things, those things own them! :pac:

It's primitive behavior. And a stark reminder that we are still only one pair of chromosomes away from our chimp ancestors. (some possibly closer than others) :P

the evasion_kid · 07-11-2015 08:47PM

The Irish abroad are worse for it than here,I didn't want anything to do with them in new york,there's only one other demographic I've seen with the crabs in a pot mentality,African Americans.

philstar · 07-11-2015 08:51PM

it was widespread in ireland pre-celtic tiger

"look at him with his big fancy new car who the hell does he think he is ....thinks he's better than us i bet ya" :mad: *spits on ground

steddyeddy · 07-11-2015 09:02PM

philstar wrote: »

it was widespread in ireland pre-celtic tiger

"look at him with his big fancy new car who the hell does he think he is ....thinks he's better than us i bet ya" :mad: *spits on ground

Yea actually I remember this. People were literally complaining that someone they knew drove a fancy car.

07-11-2015 09:04PM

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Belief in the supernatural opens the door to many other superstitious behaviors... which then naturally leads to things like "luck", "good/bad fortune" etc.

When you believe your destiny is out of your control, it's quite natural that you will begrudge those that appear to be benefiting from better luck/fortune/circumstances than YOU.

Variously attributed to Thomas Jefferson/Henry Ford/Samuel Goldwyn:

I'm a great believer in luck. The harder I work, the luckier I get.

I'm lucky I get the chance to work hard.

dandyelevan · 07-11-2015 09:33PM

My old Mother used to say 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear,' and advised us 1950s children to 'never forget your station.'
What she meant was, that Irish people will endeavor to keep you in that 'box' or 'station' you were born into, and the poor woman believed strongly in this practice.

If your Dad was a manual laborer (as mine was) then...by heck, who are you to rise above that station in life?
In the old days, it was the way of the world in this fair isle. One could be what you wished in England or America, but by heck, when you ventured home to Ireland for a visit, your hard earned degree in Economics with the Bank of America or Degree in Education from The Queen counted for nowt, and by Gawd, you better keep your beak shut about your achievements in the parish pub, or after Mass on the Sunday 'if you knew what's good for you!'
Never do or say anything 'the neighbors wouldn't like.' 'We have to live here when you're gone back' etc, etc. (to quote my mother)

My mother was terrified that one of us siblings (that stayed in Ireland) 'would come to public notice in the Papers' by excelling at something. (Being convicted of an offence in Court didn't count 'with the neighbors' unless it was really, really, bad)

So, imo, I don't think it's begrudgery we Irish excel at.
It's jealousy, pure and simple.

Fox_In_Socks · 07-11-2015 10:25PM

I see some of these begrudgers around here locally...who do they think they are, begrudging people, like???:mad: The cheek of them, and I know for a fact, that at least three of them, has been begrudged by another in past. Hypocrites of the highest order.

eternal · 08-11-2015 04:33AM

Everyone begrudges those who are hotter and more intelligent than them.
Cry me a river biatches.

Seriously though, it's an Irish thing to drag down the neighbour with the new car or the hot wife while their pour their acrid jealousy into the tenth pint of stout the local wench serves up to them in the hovel of a hole they call 'home'.

Galwayguy35 · 08-11-2015 07:55AM

Begrudgery is alive and well in Ireland all right, if someone did well for themselves and made money you even have TDs wanting to take it off them.

Idiots on the left don't seem to realise that the people earning the most also pay nearly half the tax as well and want them to give back more.

Permabear · 08-11-2015 11:16AM

This post has been deleted.

Begrudgery

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