Rogue cyclists set to face on-the-spot fines MOD WARNING in first post

Qualitymark · 23-10-2015 10:09am

I think I'll change my username to @wakeupsheeple

Tony EH · 23-10-2015 10:54am

Qualitymark wrote: »

Now this is the kind of clownist hate-speech that is becoming far too common.

One day you'll see the truth! But it'll be too late! They'll flood into our beautiful country in their tiny cars, with their stupid makeup and noisy horns and unfunny "comedy".

Is this the way you want our country to look in a few generations!

We should start building the camps now!

Kav0777 · 23-10-2015 11:54am

This thread has turned into a bit of a circus.....

Macy0161 · 23-10-2015 11:57am

traprunner wrote: »

Why are clowns the new target? It used to be cyclists.

Clowns wear funny looking shoes that are hard to walk in, whereas cyclists...

RainyDay · 23-10-2015 7:48pm

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

a clown on foot or a bike is quite likely to kill themselves.

Except that they're not, if you take a look at road death statistics. Even if you make a false assumption that all cyclists killed on the road are killed because of their own mistakes, there are still very few cyclist deaths on the road.

Deedsie · 06-11-2015 8:48am

http://irishcycle.com/2015/11/06/td-says-large-number-of-cyclists-with-headphones-putting-themselves-and-fellow-road-users-at-risk/

Could be an on the spot fine if you are caught wearing headphones while cycling.

Qualitymark · 06-11-2015 8:51am

Deedsie wrote: »

http://irishcycle.com/2015/11/06/td-says-large-number-of-cyclists-with-headphones-putting-themselves-and-fellow-road-users-at-risk/

Could be an on the spot fine if you are caught wearing headphones while cycling.

The dangerous precedent set by this law is that it allows an individual garda's personal, uninformed opinion to be used to fine citizens. A very bad precedent that should be resisted.

Macy0161 · 06-11-2015 8:56am

Qualitymark wrote: »

The dangerous precedent set by this law is that it allows an individual garda's personal, uninformed opinion to be used to fine citizens. A very bad precedent that should be resisted.

Yes, it's too open ended. These comments give the cops the go ahead to pull cyclists for headphones without any real evidence of it being a danger, or being done inconsiderately.

Even a specific law about headphones would be ridiculous anyway, given there are specific designs that allow you to hear traffic and whatever is around you, and what if you've only one head phone in (which I quite often do if I am on a spin on my own - single earphone in my left ear).

Chips Lovell · 06-11-2015 9:08am

It isn't a new law. And the offence exists for motorists as well.

Qualitymark · 06-11-2015 9:20am

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

It isn't a new law. And the offence exists for motorists as well.

Where's this law in the statue book, please, Jep?

Chips Lovell · 06-11-2015 9:36am

Qualitymark wrote: »

Where's this law in the statue book, please, Jep?

The original offence was outlined in the Road Traffic Act of 1961:

Careless driving.

52.—(1) A person shall not drive a vehicle in a public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the place.

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

The current wording of the offence is from the Road Traffic (No. 2) Act 2011:

“Driving without reasonable consideration.

51A.— (1) A person shall not drive a vehicle in a public place without reasonable consideration for other persons using the place.

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) commits an offence.

Fixed Penalty Notices were introduced under the 1961 act and its subsequent amendments.

Qualitymark · 06-11-2015 9:51am

Sorry, where's the word 'earphones' in that law? I can't seem to see it.

Chips Lovell · 06-11-2015 9:52am

There's no law prohibiting earphones.

Qualitymark · 06-11-2015 10:03am

Sorry, Jep, we're at cross-purposes; thought you were saying an earphones ban was an old law, whereas you were saying that leaving the decision on what was against the law to a random garda was an old law.

Chips Lovell · 06-11-2015 10:06am

Ah. I understand.

CramCycle · 06-11-2015 10:19am

A garda calls you or sets off the siren. If you don't turn or react in some way, its fair play that you clearly had your hearing inhibited.

I realise there are some headphones that allow you to hear outside noises, I have nothing against them to be honest, perfectly fine in my opinion. I still think its rich that some drivers give out about it when so much effort goes into reducing outside noises in a modern motor vehicle but the muppets with their Beatz / DJ style headphones on with noise cancelling features, there is no argument there.

Hearing is a large part of your situational awareness on a bike, it is not the be all and all but to remove it voluntarily is ludicrous. It certainly can be done without, eg in the case of the hearing impaired but to remove it, on purpose, is ridiculous.

On a personal note, and purely observational, the people wearing the large Beatz headphones tend to be the ones not looking around, and having even less awareness, have seen motorist slam on their brakes at junctions and beep the horn only to get no response from the Headset wearing muppets. I have let a roar (of fear) and went up on my front wheel because a guy at UCD pulled out wearing Beatz and texting. No response. They don't get injured because the rest of us make up for this deficiency of common sense.

RANT over

Deedsie · 06-11-2015 10:35am

CramCycle wrote: »

A garda calls you or sets off the siren. If you don't turn or react in some way, its fair play that you clearly had your hearing inhibited.

I realise there are some headphones that allow you to hear outside noises, I have nothing against them to be honest, perfectly fine in my opinion. I still think its rich that some drivers give out about it when so much effort goes into reducing outside noises in a modern motor vehicle but the muppets with their Beatz / DJ style headphones on with noise cancelling features, there is no argument there.

Hearing is a large part of your situational awareness on a bike, it is not the be all and all but to remove it voluntarily is ludicrous. It certainly can be done without, eg in the case of the hearing impaired but to remove it, on purpose, is ridiculous.

On a personal note, and purely observational, the people wearing the large Beatz headphones tend to be the ones not looking around, and having even less awareness, have seen motorist slam on their brakes at junctions and beep the horn only to get no response from the Headset wearing muppets. I have let a roar (of fear) and went up on my front wheel because a guy at UCD pulled out wearing Beatz and texting. No response. They don't get injured because the rest of us make up for this deficiency of common sense.

RANT over

I agree 100%, cycling in every morning if there is a goon weaving in and out on the lane not looking around him or her he or she will be wearing earphones. It's dangerous enough cycling in Dublin why would someone voluntarily make it more dangerous by reducing their awareness of what is going on around them. Senseless

tomasrojo · 06-11-2015 10:51am

Whatever about Beats, imagine the outrage if these had caught on:

Carawaystick · 06-11-2015 2:28pm

CramCycle wrote: »

A garda calls you or sets off the siren. If you don't turn or react in some way, its fair play that you clearly had your hearing inhibited.

...

Hearing is a large part of your situational awareness on a bike, it is not the be all and all but to remove it voluntarily is ludicrous. It certainly can be done without, eg in the case of the hearing impaired but to remove it, on purpose, is ridiculous.

RANT over

How is a person using headphones guilty of driving without due care and attention, when a deaf person dong the same actions isnt?

sconhome · 06-11-2015 2:35pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

How is a person using headphones guilty of driving without due care and attention, when a deaf person dong the same actions isnt?

A deaf person will generally use other senses and be aware of what's going on around them.

Gobsh1tes with their iphone on their lap and headsets are tuned out of this world completely.

PhilEllis · 06-11-2015 2:41pm

AKW wrote: »

A deaf person will generally use other senses and be aware of what's going on around them.

Gobsh1tes with their iphone on their lap and headsets are tuned out of this world completely.

Bit of a sweeping statement there. I cycle with headphones in. I start a podcast as I leave my house, it goes inside a pocket using earphones I can still hear the road with and doesn't come out until I reach my destination. I am not a danger on the road nor am I unaware of my surroundings.

CramCycle · 06-11-2015 2:47pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

How is a person using headphones guilty of driving without due care and attention, when a deaf person dong the same actions isnt?

Hearing is important for situational awareness. Unfortunately for the deaf person, this has been removed and nothing can be done in this regard. They can alter their tactics, behaviour etc. to alleviate this deficit as much as possible.

My belief is that people with noise cancelling headphones do not adjust their behaviour to account for this loss in situational awareness, but this is based purely on observation, so maybe I just have the idiots around UCD annoying me.

PhilEllis wrote: »

Bit of a sweeping statement there. I cycle with headphones in. I start a podcast as I leave my house, it goes inside a pocket using earphones I can still hear the road with and doesn't come out until I reach my destination. I am not a danger on the road nor am I unaware of my surroundings.

Not really, several headphones allow you to hear whats going on around you, my issue was specifically with the ones that drown out surrounding noise. Beatz, over ear and certain buds. A garda can't tell which ones are fine but they should certainly be able to recognise which ones are definitely eg beatz.

If a Garda gives it the old blues and twos or calls you over, you will hear them. Some people won't, these are the people who have lost situational awareness.

Tony EH · 06-11-2015 3:09pm

PhilEllis wrote: »

Bit of a sweeping statement there. I cycle with headphones in. I start a podcast as I leave my house, it goes inside a pocket using earphones I can still hear the road with and doesn't come out until I reach my destination. I am not a danger on the road nor am I unaware of my surroundings.

I listen to music or newsyap.

If I can't hear the road around me over the music, it means it's too high, then I lower it.

It's a very simple procedure.

Someone should tell Paschal and then ask him to actually do something useful while he's in office.

I wonder how he feels about radios in cars?

buffalo · 06-11-2015 3:46pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Someone should tell Paschal and then ask him to actually do something useful while he's in office.

I wonder how he feels about radios in cars?

If you read the story, it was Ruairi Quinn who raised the matter - Pascal responded that it was up to the Gardaí, but it wasn't an offence

tomasrojo · 06-11-2015 3:50pm

buffalo wrote: »

If you read the story, it was Ruairi Quinn who raised the matter - Pascal responded that it was up to the Gardaí, but it wasn't an offence

I saw RQ on a Dublin Bike some years ago. He wasn't wearing earphones or headphones. No "safety" paraphernalia either.

Tony EH · 06-11-2015 4:12pm

buffalo wrote: »

If you read the story, it was Ruairi Quinn who raised the matter - Pascal responded that it was up to the Gardaí, but it wasn't an offence

Ruairi Quinn's no better.

But if these things are being mooted around, it's usually to a view to be seen doing "something".

I doubt that anything concrete will come of it, as cyclists will quite right kick up a stink about the same provisions in cars etc.

cdaly_ · 06-11-2015 4:50pm

I find my earbuds cut wind noise so I can, possibly, hear better.

sconhome · 06-11-2015 5:01pm

PhilEllis wrote: »

Bit of a sweeping statement there. I cycle with headphones in. I start a podcast as I leave my house, it goes inside a pocket using earphones I can still hear the road with and doesn't come out until I reach my destination. I am not a danger on the road nor am I unaware of my surroundings.

So do I.

My statement was in relation to car drivers which were mentioned in the quoted post I replied to. I have no issue with people using headphones as long as they themselves are clued in.

I see so many pedestrians, cyclists and drivers that are on a different planet altogether. Its like their heads are on fixed rods they can't even manage a life saver look.

tomasrojo · 16-11-2015 9:16am

https://twitter.com/Flaminghobo1/status/666182051557715968

I will be using the term "Big Cycling" in future. I've always wanted a term for that powerful cabal.

ThisRegard · 16-11-2015 9:56am

Messr Pachal(Pascal?) was on Newstalk this morning talking about the roads, not quite sure if he fixed them, but at the end the troll Ivan got excited when he started to question him over cyclists breaking the laws, again, and how dangerous those cyclists are when they have headphones on.

tomasrojo · 16-11-2015 10:26am

Good for you, Ivan. Don't let Big Cycling silence you.

tomasrojo · 16-11-2015 11:24pm

This is pretty clever:

Guerrilla style: Pitt grad student uses cell phone to track speeds on Forbes Ave in Oakland
Approximately half of motorists caught traveling above speed limit

http://bikepgh.org/2015/11/13/guerrilla-style-pitt-student-uses-cell-phone-to-track-traffic-speeds-on-forbes-ave-in-oakland/

Might be an interesting college project to see the percentage of motorists speeding around Ireland using similar cheap technology.

CramCycle · 17-11-2015 10:27am

tomasrojo wrote: »

This is pretty clever:

http://bikepgh.org/2015/11/13/guerrilla-style-pitt-student-uses-cell-phone-to-track-traffic-speeds-on-forbes-ave-in-oakland/

Might be an interesting college project to see the percentage of motorists speeding around Ireland using similar cheap technology.

A similar thing, not as accurate, was done for a national school project. They had a large number of drivers well in excess of the limit (even if you included the obvious errors, the speeds were far enough above to say they were possibly wrong in my opinion).

A quick google shows a few similar projects for NS's around the country, my favourite quote from one of the students

Then Garda Scully showed us the speed gun that is used to stop people from speeding on the roads. He let us test it and then the Green Schools Committee watched him use it outside the school. The speed limit outside our school is 80 kilometres per hour. However the five cars that were scanned were travelling at 100 kilometres per hour. When they saw Garda Scully they slowed down.
SLOW DOWN OUTSIDE CLONTUSKERT SCHOOL!!

The project I had read, the school were asking the Gardai to provide a camera, they (the students and a teacher) then done the leg work themselves to show it was warranted, and they were refused for some technical reason.

tomasrojo · 17-11-2015 10:45am

I think the approach used in the post above using phone footage and some software might work for schools, if someone can just set it up for the teachers. The professional equipment might prove difficult to borrow for any length of time.

The speed limit outside our school is 80 kilometres per hour

Give. Me. Strength.

Jawgap · 17-11-2015 10:51am

CramCycle wrote: »

A similar thing, not as accurate, was done for a national school project. They had a large number of drivers well in excess of the limit (even if you included the obvious errors, the speeds were far enough above to say they were possibly wrong in my opinion).

A quick google shows a few similar projects for NS's around the country, my favourite quote from one of the students

The project I had read, the school were asking the Gardai to provide a camera, they (the students and a teacher) then done the leg work themselves to show it was warranted, and they were refused for some technical reason.

i think I may have posted about that. Some TY kids at my sons' school did a project a few years ago looking at road safety in vicinity of the school and found, among other things, that a lot of cars passing the school were speeding.

The figures were presented at the parents' council and a meeting was arranged with the local Garda Sergeant, who was sympathetic to calls for a speed van to be placed on the road but he said it wouldn't happen because there wasn't enough traffic (implication: not enough revenue) and because there hadn't been a serious collision on the stretch of road! Obviously prevention is not better than cure!

RainyDay · 17-11-2015 10:53am

tomasrojo wrote: »

This is pretty clever:

http://bikepgh.org/2015/11/13/guerrilla-style-pitt-student-uses-cell-phone-to-track-traffic-speeds-on-forbes-ave-in-oakland/

Might be an interesting college project to see the percentage of motorists speeding around Ireland using similar cheap technology.

This cycling campaigner in Galway has his own speed gun, apparently;

https://twitter.com/cosaingalway/status/657702934906470400

tomasrojo · 17-11-2015 10:55am

Yes, I've seen his Tweets. They do make a good visual point about speeding.

He's really a "pedestrian campaginer". Actually, I probably shouldn't say this, but he may be a member of the "Walking Industrial Complex", a shadowy organisation similar to "Big Cycling".

https://twitter.com/Flaminghobo1/status/666566866937233408

galwaycyclist · 17-11-2015 11:18am

Jawgap wrote: »

The figures were presented at the parents' council and a meeting was arranged with the local Garda Sergeant, who was sympathetic to calls for a speed van to be placed on the road but he said it wouldn't happen because there wasn't enough traffic (implication: not enough revenue) and because there hadn't been a serious collision on the stretch of road! Obviously prevention is not better than cure!

Yes this has come up before with regard to the Guards apparently their official position on speeding is that it is only a problem if someone actually dies.

tomasrojo · 17-11-2015 11:24am

And if motorists speed and lead to parents not allowing their children to walk the road, or to the elderly avoiding walking there, the speed limit is effectively unpoliced and will only become of interest to the Gardaí when car occupants start being killed.

Which is part of the reason the UK has a "good safety record": a very substantial withdrawal of the vulnerable from their streets. Presume it also applies to Ireland, especially rural Ireland, to a great extent.

CramCycle · 17-11-2015 2:08pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

Which is part of the reason the UK has a "good safety record": a very substantial withdrawal of the vulnerable from their streets. Presume it also applies to Ireland, especially rural Ireland, to a great extent.

I think I mentioned it before about being home in rural Ireland and getting criticized for driving too slowly. The speed limit was 80kmph, I was varying between 50 and 80kmph. There have been several road deaths on the road over the years (none of which come up on that map the RSA used to have) and were directly attributable to speed.
The passenger informed it was perfectly safe to open her up to over 100kmph, a few seconds later we were going round a blind bend, followed by one of those dips that can hide oncoming traffic, I dispaired as he referred to me as a granny driver.

Its rural Ireland as well, there is always a chance of loose livestock etc. The attitude of some drivers is shocking.

I really think for many drivers in the country, the speed limit is an implied target that you can oscillate around depending on road conditions. There is no concept of it being a limit and you really should only drive at the speed that road conditions and safe driving permit.

I used to walk to school in the country but my mam tells me kids don't do that, even the ones who are only 5 minutes away, because of this fear of other drivers. Its a great big circle jerk, the less people who use the roads, the worse the driving becomes, leading to less people using the roads.

Jawgap · 17-11-2015 2:33pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

Yes, I've seen his Tweets. They do make a good visual point about speeding.

He's really a "pedestrian campaginer". Actually, I probably shouldn't say this, but he may be a member of the "Walking Industrial Complex", a shadowy organisation similar to "Big Cycling".

https://twitter.com/Flaminghobo1/status/666566866937233408

One things for sure, there needs to be more Illuminati brought into Big Cycling.

RainyDay · 17-11-2015 2:48pm

Jawgap wrote: »

One things for sure, there needs to be more Illuminati brought into Big Cycling.

I have the perfect candidate;

https://twitter.com/therealjimcorr/status/277121205780226048

tomasrojo · 17-11-2015 2:56pm

FCNs and @GardaTraffic have made it big!

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.ie/2015/11/a-walk-down-hyperbole-lane.html

Tony EH · 17-11-2015 3:00pm

Jawgap wrote: »

One things for sure, there needs to be more Illuminati brought into Big Cycling.

I heard there's a large pelaton on the way to the Bilderberg meeting next year.

Jawgap · 17-11-2015 3:16pm

Tony EH wrote: »

I heard there's a large pelaton on the way to the Bilderberg meeting next year.

Got excited there.......

.......thought you said Battenberg

(Gratuitous photo of cake)

Tony EH · 17-11-2015 3:36pm

Battenberg gets served at Bilderberg when the tea and coffee comes out.

My Illuminati friends love it.

CramCycle · 17-11-2015 5:19pm

Its like the old saying goes, if you know people in the group, you wouldn't need/want/have to say you know people in the group.

Qualitymark · 18-11-2015 12:53pm

My impression of country roads is that cycling will only become the norm for rural kids when separate cycle paths are built parallel to the road, using strips of the bordering fields.

tomasrojo · 01-12-2015 11:12am

"My pet peeve is a very serious issue that requires a walk of shame."
http://irishcycle.com/2015/12/01/td-wants-gardai-to-escort-bicycle-users-to-atms-to-pay-fines/

Jawgap · 01-12-2015 11:15am

tomasrojo wrote: »

"My pet peeve is a very serious issue that requires a walk of shame."
http://irishcycle.com/2015/12/01/td-wants-gardai-to-escort-bicycle-users-to-atms-to-pay-fines/

An excellent idea - then while they're there maybe the Guards could do something about the number of ATMs being skimmed!

Rogue cyclists set to face on-the-spot fines MOD WARNING in first post

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