Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 ( Mod Note linked in OP 29/12)

efb · 05-11-2015 04:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Saying that for determination we need to be Stoke, letting on that hoofball is the only alternative, that our "style of play" leads to hammerings, obfuscating as if you don't know when the 8-2 was and so on.

I said exactly when it was 4, years ago. Our style of play does lend itself to high defeats

05-11-2015 04:40PM

efb wrote: »

I said exactly when it was 4, years ago.

And asked if we'd lost 8-2 since. :rolleyes:

Our style of play does lend itself to high defeats

..and winning **** all. What's the point of it if it lends itself to high defeats and no more goals than George Graham's "hoofball", which is the only alternative.

efb · 05-11-2015 04:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And asked if we'd lost 8-2 since. :rolleyes:

..and winning **** all.

You said it keeps happening we haven't lost 8-2 since that was my point

05-11-2015 04:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What stats?

No idea, but it's a well known fact that one of the main factors contributing to Arsenal acquiring Gabriel was his stats.

Deleted User wrote: »

"All the Gabriel 'hate'" is mainly me but please, I'm happy to debate it. Someone earlier said about digging deeper into the stats so here's last season when we didn't lose with him on the pitch and those team's finishing positions:
Middlesbrough (cup)
Palace (10th)
Everton (11th)
QPR (20th)
Newcastle (15th)
Liverpool (6th)
Reading (cup)
West Brom (13th)

2 clean sheets, Middlesbrough and Everton.

And the matches they lost? Which other players were playing?

Personally, I don't think he is amazing, and is prone to mistakes. I don't think he's as bad as you think he is, though.

tayto lover · 05-11-2015 04:43PM

I don't see posters criticising Arsenal at all.
We are criticising the defending (at least i am) and the lack of desire and know how our defenders showed in many of our matches over the last few years. It happens mainly when we are missing some of our first team players but doesn't have to with proper training and coaching. Not having your usual partner beside you does not mean you can drop your head, stop defending and throw in the towel.

tayto lover · 05-11-2015 04:45PM

efb wrote: »

You said it keeps happening we haven't lost 8-2 since that was my point

We haven't won 12 -- 0 since 1900 either :rolleyes:

PS
I wasn't there.

efb · 05-11-2015 04:45PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

I am merely pointing out that our teams that won titles under Wenger were much much better than this lot we have now, mentally more so as than anything else. They were all winners, this team are weak mentally.

They have won and successfully defended the FA Cup

efb · 05-11-2015 04:46PM

tayto lover wrote: »

We haven't won 12 -- 0 since 1900 either :rolleyes:

PS
I wasn't there.

I wasn't the one saying it kept happening...

Were you busy?? Wedding day? Only excuse allowed

Ken Shamrock · 05-11-2015 04:48PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't see posters criticising Arsenal at all.
We are criticising the defending (at least i am) and the lack of desire and know how our defenders showed in many of our matches over the last few years. It happens mainly when we are missing some of our first team players but doesn't have to with proper training and coaching. Not having your usual partner beside you does not mean you can drop your head, stop defending and throw in the towel.

I don't bother criticising Arsenal anymore because It doesn't lead to discussion on here, only childish arguments. Only time people are willing to "discuss" on here Is when we've won and everything's great.

05-11-2015 04:49PM

efb wrote: »

You said it keeps happening we haven't lost 8-2 since that was my point

It's one of the hammerings you know that perfectly well. We haven't lost 6-3 since City but we have lost 5-1 twice. They're all a part of the same argument.

Basil3 wrote: »

No idea, but it's a well known fact that one of the main factors contributing to Arsenal acquiring Gabriel was his stats.

What stats?

And the matches they lost? Which other players were playing?

Don't be lazy.

Personally, I don't think he is amazing, and is prone to mistakes. I don't think he's as bad as you think he is, though.

He's not good enough for Arsenal. I showed earlier that when United won 3 titles in a row they had one season with an extremely settled back 4, the other 2 seasons were similar or worse than us last season. But they had players they could slot in and depend on. Gabriel isn't that player, hell he has as many yellow cards as clean sheets since he joined. :P

efb · 05-11-2015 04:50PM

I have more hope for Gab than Mert tbf

efb · 05-11-2015 04:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's one of the hammerings you know that perfectly well. We haven't lost 6-3 since City but we have lost 5-1 twice. They're all a part of the same argument.

What stats?

Don't be lazy.

He's not good enough for Arsenal. I showed earlier that when United won 3 titles in a row they had one season with an extremely settled back 4, the other 2 seasons were similar or worse than us last season. But they had players they could slot in and depend on. Gabriel isn't that player, hell he has as many yellow cards as clean sheets since he joined. :P

I thought people here were crying out for a more physical player???

tayto lover · 05-11-2015 04:52PM

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

I don't bother criticising Arsenal anymore because It doesn't lead to discussion on here, only childish arguments. Only time people are willing to "discuss" on here Is when we've won and everything's great.

I played as a CB and always watch the defending. It' s great to see lads throwing themselves at the ball sometimes head first to block a shot. Alas only KJos seems to do that for us. Mert turning his back away again last night is very disappointing. Gibbs ducking away a few weeks ago is similar.

efb · 05-11-2015 04:52PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Wenger was embarrassed in his interview that night.

More embarrassing that Mourinio at the weekend???

symbolic · 05-11-2015 04:53PM

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Only time people are willing to "discuss" on here Is when we've won and everything's great.

There's never many round here when that happens

Irish Aris · 05-11-2015 04:53PM

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

I don't bother criticising Arsenal anymore because It doesn't lead to discussion on here, only childish arguments. Only time people are willing to "discuss" on here Is when we've won and everything's great.

usually after a win, there isn't much of a discussion anyway, because everyone is happy.

And in any case some posters only come in after a defeat because they can back up their points.
And I don't mean you of course, or any other of the regular posters in here.

05-11-2015 04:54PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What stats?

I have no idea, because I don't work for Arsenal, and don't have anything to do with the purchasing of players. I can say that Wenger has said:

"We look at interceptions, defensive errors, winning tackles - what we call tackles is committing to win the ball. Set piece receptions. These kind of things. But the most important thing is through the eye."

Don't be lazy.

How am I being lazy? I'm just telling you that stats need context. Look at Ospina's winning stats - clearly he was the best keeper in the league last year, right?

tayto lover · 05-11-2015 04:54PM

efb wrote: »

More embarrassing that Mourinio at the weekend???

Chelsea thread

>

efb · 05-11-2015 04:59PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Chelsea thread
>

I was contextualising

Ken Shamrock · 05-11-2015 05:00PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I played as a CB and always watch the defending. It' s great to see lads throwing themselves at the ball sometimes head first to block a shot. Alas only KJos seems to do that for us. Mert turning his back away again last night is very disappointing. Gibbs ducking away a few weeks ago is similar.

Aye, I was a CB for 12 years myself, Kos Is world class and deserves better. Mert mocing out of the way wasn't the problem for me last night, It was not closing Muller down, he had enough time to get out to him but instead decided to stand there like a clown. Gibbs the other week however was embarrassing.

symbolic wrote: »

There's never many round here when that happens

Too busy celebrating I guess

Irish Aris wrote: »

usually after a win, there isn't much of a discussion anyway, because everyone is happy.

And in any case some posters only come in after a defeat because they can back up their points.
And I don't mean you of course, or any other of the regular posters in here.

No I agree, I barely post anymore win or loss TBH, I wasn't getting anywhere when I said what I wanted to so now I just sit back and read what everyone else has to say.

symbolic · 05-11-2015 05:04PM

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Too busy celebrating I guess

Possibly! haha

05-11-2015 05:09PM

efb wrote: »

I have more hope for Gab than Mert tbf

Well yeah, Mertesacker is 31 and has a season or 2 left.

efb wrote: »

I thought people here were crying out for a more physical player???

He was super "physical" against Costa. :rolleyes: Yellows cards doesn't mean "physical" and I think most people want players who play all the time, not just things going well. Though Gabriel ain't a stand-out with that issue.

Basil3 wrote: »

I have no idea, because I don't work for Arsenal, and don't have anything to do with the purchasing of players. I can say that Wenger has said:

"We look at interceptions, defensive errors, winning tackles - what we call tackles is committing to win the ball. Set piece receptions. These kind of things. But the most important thing is through the eye."

Yup, the eye is the most important. The same eye that got us Cygan, Senderos and Squillachi.

How am I being lazy? I'm just telling you that stats need context. Look at Ospina's winning stats - clearly he was the best keeper in the league last year, right?

I provided stats that I researched myself, I even checked some for other people (which didn't turn out how they'd hope).
By what metric? Ospina was fine last season, I was on record as saying that GK was one of the last places we needed a signing. Quick Google for last year's goalkeeping stats has an article with Chesney ranked highly before being dropped funnily enough.
Back to Paulista, he makes mistakes and I've yet to see any metric showing him to be good enough for a team of Arsenal's stature.

efb · 05-11-2015 05:25PM

Christ mr Roll eyes is popular

efb · 05-11-2015 05:26PM

Gab was failed by weak refereeing against Costa tbf

05-11-2015 05:27PM

efb wrote: »

Gab was failed by weak refereeing against Costa tbf

And his lack of a brain.

05-11-2015 05:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I provided stats that I researched myself, I even checked some for other people (which didn't turn out how they'd hope).
By what metric? Ospina was fine last season, I was on record as saying that GK was one of the last places we needed a signing. Quick Google for last year's goalkeeping stats has an article with Chesney ranked highly before being dropped funnily enough.
Back to Paulista, he makes mistakes and I've yet to see any metric showing him to be good enough for a team of Arsenal's stature.

Well according to Squawka, only one of Kos, Mert and Gab have made a defensive error in the league this season. Guess which one? Hint: Not Mert or Gab.

If you look into the stats, Gabriel is doing worse this year than last, for whatever reason. I can give you loads of examples where statistically he is better than Kos and Mert. Last season he was better than Kos at interceptions, blocks, clearances and less defensive errors.

Back to my initial point. You use stats such as number of clean sheets to illustrate how poor Gabriel is. There are other stats out there that show he isn't as bad as you think.

efb · 05-11-2015 05:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And his lack of a brain.

Their ain't too many brainy footballers tbf

farna_boy · 05-11-2015 05:49PM

Reflecting on the game a little more, I wonder was the main problem last night that our midfield were essentially absent?

Cazorla and Sanchez were poor, I'm not sure about Coquelin but I don't think I heard his name until the final 20 minutes and Campbell was only so-so (Ozil had a good game though).

I know the defenders ultimately made the mistakes that lead to the goals but if the midfield had put in a better shift, the defence wouldn't have been under so much constant pressure.

I wonder if this is a common theme? In most games we win, we tend to dominate midfield and so the defence isn't under so much pressure because the midfield is closing down players, keeping possession or simply not allowing crosses and passes to come in. This wasn't happening last night though and so the defence was under constant threat and pressure meaning that a goal was almost inevitable.

Example: 1st goal

How does Alacantara have so much time to put in a cross? What the hell is Cazorla doing?

2nd Example: 3rd goal

For a start, Monreal is marking two players and Cazorla is just brushed off the ball. If you watch the video (on Arsenalist) you would also see Campbell and Sanchez strolling around the place even after we lost the ball.

3rd Example: Alaba Shot

Look at our midfield. Seriously. Now it looks like the ball is just after coming out to Alaba, but no it was actually closer to the half way line before this screenshot. Why are the midfield so deep? They are all currently strolling out at this stage as well by the way. Why aren't they making any attempt yo push up the field? Alaba has all the time in the world to take the shot and there is only a half arsed attempt made to close him down.

Mr Blobby · 05-11-2015 06:19PM

farna_boy wrote: »

Reflecting on the game a little more, I wonder was the main problem last night that our midfield were essentially absent?

Cazorla and Sanchez were poor, I'm not sure about Coquelin but I don't think I heard his name until the final 20 minutes and Campbell was only so-so (Ozil had a good game though).

I know the defenders ultimately made the mistakes that lead to the goals but if the midfield had put in a better shift, the defence wouldn't have been under so much constant pressure.

I wonder if this is a common theme? In most games we win, we tend to dominate midfield and so the defence isn't under so much pressure because the midfield is closing down players, keeping possession or simply not allowing crosses and passes to come in. This wasn't happening last night though and so the defence was under constant threat and pressure meaning that a goal was almost inevitable.

Example: 1st goal

How does Alacantara have so much time to put in a cross? What the hell is Cazorla doing?

2nd Example: 3rd goal

For a start, Monreal is marking two players and Cazorla is just brushed off the ball. If you watch the video (on Arsenalist) you would also see Campbell and Sanchez strolling around the place even after we lost the ball.

3rd Example: Alaba Shot

Look at our midfield. Seriously. Now it looks like the ball is just after coming out to Alaba, but no it was actually closer to the half way line before this screenshot. Why are the midfield so deep? They are all currently strolling out at this stage as well by the way. Why aren't they making any attempt yo push up the field? Alaba has all the time in the world to take the shot and there is only a half arsed attempt made to close him down.

Good post!
I think it was a mix of both midfield and the forwards.
We had no outlet from defence. When we tried to counter we lacked pace and lost possession. Bayern pressed us the entire match and because we had no Theo they could play a very high line without worrying about being caught out. Our midfield struggled with the numbers Bayern were able to press us with.

gosplan · 05-11-2015 06:48PM

No, people, just no.

We conceded 5 last night because we were jogging around the pitch in an away game to one of the most dangerous teams on the planet.

Whining about it misses the point that it was exactly what we needed to do.

Gabriel's mistake for the first was the problem. Then it becomes a training session.

The instructions from the boss at that point should have been

No sprinting!

No dangerous challenges!

Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 ( Mod Note linked in OP 29/12)

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