Rangers FC On Field Gossip & Rumour Thread 2017 Mod Note in OP(Updated 14/08)

bobbysands81 · 04-11-2015 03:13PM

In other news...

Rangers need a cash injection of £2.5m to see out the season. Yet again they're trading whilst insolvent.

weldoninhio · 04-11-2015 03:17PM

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

It's what you want, but do you expect it to happen?

I fully expect it to happen. The judgement is explicit. Without the EBTs the players would not have moved there. It's in black and white.

Jelle1880 · 04-11-2015 03:18PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

They were paid far more than you were able to afford.

Are you seriously trying to argue against this point???

So what you're saying is that they actually got more money than is possible ? How does that work ? Did they get Monopoly bills ?

I'm still not convinced any of you have a basic understanding of economics and how paying wages works.

Dozen Wicked Words · 04-11-2015 03:20PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

I fully expect it to happen. The judgement is explicit. Without the EBTs the players would not have moved there. It's in black and white.

I'd be amazed if they took titles away for financial irregularities, as you know yourself they are a pretty conservative league. Outside of the Old Firm is there a clamour for this to happen?

Jelle1880 · 04-11-2015 03:20PM

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

I'd be amazed if they took titles away for financial irregularities, as you know yourself they are a pretty conservative league. Outside of the Old Firm is there a clamour for this to happen?

You have no idea.

It's already a done deal according to everyone else (just like last time, when it didn't happen).
Comments like in this thread are normal on message boards of all clubs.

What will probably happen is that HMRC will go after Murray Group and/or the players/staff to recoup any tax they deem owed to them.

weldoninhio · 04-11-2015 03:22PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

So what you're saying is that they actually got more money than is possible ? How does that work ? Did they get Monopoly bills ?

I'm still not convinced any of you have a basic understanding of economics and how paying wages works.

If you earn €1m a year, you have to pay tax on that. So you get say €600,000, €400,000 goes to the taxman.

If you don't pay the tax man, and just pay the player €1m, then you owe the tax man about €650,000. If you don't pay that it's cheating because every other club works within the laws of the land.

Edit: it's not even economics, it's common sense

Jelle1880 · 04-11-2015 03:24PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

If you earn €1m a year, you have to pay tax on that. So you get say €600,000, €400,000 goes to the taxman.

If you don't pay the tax man, and just pay the player €1m, then you owe the tax man about €650,000. If you don't pay that it's cheating because every other club works within the laws of the land.

But Rangers did pay tax on the players' normal wages (until Whyte stepped in of course).

Is that really that hard to understand ?

It's the extra payments that the players received which are the issue here, and which have now been deemed taxeable. Quite unbelievable that after all these years you still haven't grasped the situation.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 04-11-2015 03:29PM

People are also missing this
Celtic insisted the results of the last commission they set up were binding for all parties as they didn't want us to sue if they lost.

No titles will be taken

weldoninhio · 04-11-2015 03:29PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

But Rangers did pay tax on the players' normal wages (until Whyte stepped in of course).

Is that really that hard to understand ?

It's the extra payments that the players received which are the issue here, and which have now been deemed taxeable. Quite unbelievable that after all these years you still haven't grasped the situation.

They were also wages, just under a different name. No tax was paid on these extra wages. It's not rocket science. Here's an idea, ring up the revenue office, tell them you have

weldoninhio · 04-11-2015 03:30PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

But Rangers did pay tax on the players' normal wages (until Whyte stepped in of course).

Is that really that hard to understand ?

It's the extra payments that the players received which are the issue here, and which have now been deemed taxeable. Quite unbelievable that after all these years you still haven't grasped the situation.

They were also wages, just under a different name. No tax was paid on these extra wages. It's not rocket science. Here's an idea, ring up the revenue office, tell them you have young lad working for you, your only paying him minimum wage, so he'll pay the tax on that. But your gonna give him an extra 500 a week as a bonus tax free. See what they say.

Dozen Wicked Words · 04-11-2015 03:33PM

Well I still think Rangers getting titles taken off them for financial reasons is unlikely, time will tell.

A Dub in Glasgo · 04-11-2015 03:35PM

A big victory for the taxpayer and common sense. Rangers caught cheating tax on an industrial scale under the directorship of Murray and Whyte. Alex Thomson from Channel 4 today

[url=http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-winning-titles-cheating-taxman/10032[/url]Rangers: winning titles but cheating the taxman[/url]

Mod Edit: As per boards rules, please don't quote/show whole article.

weldoninhio · 04-11-2015 03:35PM

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Well I still think Rangers getting titles taken off them for financial reasons is unlikely, time will tell.

Every season a club is thrown out of a cup for playing an illegible player. Every season. This judgement confirms that Rangers had numerous players they could not afford. It will happen.

Jelle1880 · 04-11-2015 03:38PM

Lol, Thomson crawling back out from under his rock was all we needed to finish off the collective **** over this

I can't ****ing wait for the outrage when no titles are stripped. No doubt the accusations of Rangers holding sway over the football bodies will be rife

Dozen Wicked Words · 04-11-2015 03:38PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Every season a club is thrown out of a cup for playing an illegible player. Every season. This judgement confirms that Rangers had numerous players they could not afford. It will happen.

Not after the competition has ended they aren't.

As I say lots of fans can will it to be so, doesn't mean I think its any more likely. You can post how wrong I was if it happens, I'll do the same if it doesn't !!:pac::pac:

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 04-11-2015 03:43PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Every season a club is thrown out of a cup for playing an illegible player. Every season. This judgement confirms that Rangers had numerous players they could not afford. It will happen.

No it won't. You can keep on going but there will be no new commission set up and things will stay as they are as far as titles and trophys go

Jelle1880 · 04-11-2015 03:45PM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

No it won't. You can keep on going but there will be no new commission set up and things will stay as they are as far as titles and trophys go

As long as they don't take the 2004/2005 one

A Dub in Glasgo · 04-11-2015 03:46PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Lol, Thomson crawling back out from under his rock was all we needed to finish off the collective **** over this

I can't ****ing wait for the outrage when no titles are stripped. No doubt the accusations of Rangers holding sway over the football bodies will be rife

Thomson has been bang on about this all the time as were loads here if you care to look back. The response was fingers in the ears saying 'la la la - I am not listening'

bobbysands81 · 04-11-2015 03:46PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Lol, Thomson crawling back out from under his rock was all we needed to finish off the collective **** over this

I can't ****ing wait for the outrage when no titles are stripped. No doubt the accusations of Rangers holding sway over the football bodies will be rife

No titles will be stripped.

Best of luck though in winning your first title next season... if you get promoted... if you're still in existence after the other bits of news today.

A Dub in Glasgo · 04-11-2015 03:48PM

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Not after the competition has ended they aren't.

As I say lots of fans can will it to be so, doesn't mean I think its any more likely. You can post how wrong I was if it happens, I'll do the same if it doesn't !!:pac::pac:

Irrespective of whether the SFA do anything about it, do you think cheating the taxman to fund better players over your nearest rival taints the winning of trophies?

Dozen Wicked Words · 04-11-2015 03:58PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Irrespective of whether the SFA do anything about it, do you think cheating the taxman to fund better players over your nearest rival taints the winning of trophies?

I don't think they'd be anywhere near the moral high ground

, but football clubs living beyond their means isn't a new phenomenon, lower leagues in England are littered with clubs paying more than they can afford,(Northampton look like they could be next to go

) Portsmouth did it more than once, owing the tax man approaching a couple of million, their FA Cup win doesn't have any indication they were racking up debt after debt, and dozens of local businesses were to go unpaid.

Saying that I don't suppose their fans care, there won't be an asterisk next to their title, same as Rangers won't have an asterisk next to theirs.

Jelle1880 · 04-11-2015 04:12PM

@STVGrant 1 minutes ago
There will be no attempt to reopen the LNS commission. It focused on non-disclosure of side letters. Not on the legality of the scheme.

@STVGrant 2m2 minutes ago
The scheme wasn't illegal. It was tax avoidance. Not evasion. Nowhere in today's verdict does it question the lawfulness.

Silly Grant, he should have checked with the resident Celtic fans here first.

"The SPL presented no argument to challenge the decision of the majority of the Tax Tribunal and Mr McKenzie stated expressly that for all purposes of this Commission’s Inquiry and Determination the SPL accepted that decision as it stood, without regard to any possible appeal by HMRC. Accordingly we proceed on the basis that the EBT arrangements were lawful. What we are concerned with is the fact that the side-letters issued to the Specified Players, in the course of the operation of the EBT scheme, were not disclosed to the SPL and the SFA as required by their respective Rules."

From the LNS ruling.

Poor Sean.

Poor Celtic fans in this thread.

A Dub in Glasgo · 04-11-2015 04:17PM

Only the most blinkered will state 'there was no competitive advantage'. It is obvious as night follows day that if can afford to buy better players over your rivals by cheating the taxpayer, there is competitive advantage otherwise what is the point of doing it!! Common sense

Zebra3 · 04-11-2015 04:26PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Only the most blinkered will state 'there was no competitive advantage'. It is obvious as night follows day that if can afford to buy better players over your rivals by cheating the taxpayer, there is competitive advantage otherwise what is the point of doing it!! Common sense

It would seem there was. Competitive advantage to the old Rangers club at the time, but was there anything in the rules of the league at the time forbidding it?

bobbysands81 · 04-11-2015 07:02PM

Here is a sample of *some* of the EBTs.

How folk can say there was no advantage is unreal.

Would love to know what Souness's EBT was for considering he received it years after he was with the club.

o1dMfGF.jpg?1

bobbysands81 · 04-11-2015 07:59PM

In case you guys missed it today your accounts were published.

Turnover of a meagre £16.5m

Loss of £7.5m

£2.5m in new funds have to be found to see out season.

These are official club figures... and to think you guys are happy with Dave King's stewardship of the club?!

What do you think Jelle?

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Still going I see

I really would love a new timeline by when we can expect an insolvency event or bankruptcy. It seems you know more than we do, so that should be easy information to find, right ? I'm sure we'd all appreciate it tremendously.

I mean, obviously (that is, if we would believe the load of nonsense spouted here by the usual suspects) we are in deep, deep trouble.

I also see a lot of posts constantly asking about financial information. Is this a one way street kinda thing then ? Because if you're claiming all this crap then surely you can back it up ?

Unless you're just regurgitating stuff from twitter Which would of course be preposterous. Right ?

weldoninhio · 04-11-2015 08:29PM

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Not after the competition has ended they aren't.

As I say lots of fans can will it to be so, doesn't mean I think its any more likely. You can post how wrong I was if it happens, I'll do the same if it doesn't !!:pac::pac:

Celtic Vs Legia had ended, Legia broke the rules and were punished.

Juve had titles stripped in recent years.

Dozen Wicked Words · 04-11-2015 08:34PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Celtic Vs Legia had ended, Legia broke the rules and were punished.

Juve had titles stripped in recent years.

Legia was a game, they broke playing conditions by fielding ineligible player,nothing financial and also not a league or trophy, just a game.

Juve had their title stripped for match fixing.

As I said before you and others can will it to happen, I don't think the league will strip them of titles. We will see. And yar boo sucks to the person who's wrong.

Dempsey · 04-11-2015 08:44PM

Its no surprise that the ostrich club would insulate them from the idea that no competitive advantage could be gotten from gotten from breaking tax rules.

Lord Nimmo did rule that Rangers did not disclose payment to the SFA/SPFL but decided that a £250k fine was a suitable punishment. It was as much of a farce as the amount that Green bought Rangers Assets from Duff & Phelps, all who are in the process of criminal prosecution.

The SFA & SPL will not allow themselves to be put into a position where their role in this whole debacle can be investigated properly and placed on the record. They are teflon, much like alot of their type in FIFA & UEFA. They twisted & revised so many rules to get a newco into into Division 3 at the expense of existing clubs because of money. You are all deluded if you think the sporting integrity of Scottish Football will be the highest priority in all this.

What a mess Scottish Football finds itself in because of greed and corruption in almost every shape and form.

Dozen Wicked Words · 04-11-2015 09:05PM

Dempsey wrote: »

What a mess Scottish Football finds itself in because of greed and corruption in almost every shape and form.

Football governance worldwide is in sh#t state.