Bank of Ireland announce disgusting attack on the elderly

jam_mac_jam · 04-11-2015 02:56PM

Orange Pants wrote: »

I am not ageist but it is a fact that a lot of older people don't have a clue about online banking or even how to use an ATM

I am sure there are very few people who don't know how to use an ATM. How patronising.

Crooked Jack · 04-11-2015 02:57PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I don't know a single person over 75 that doesn't know how to use an ATM. And I know quite a few of them.

I know plenty who wouldnt know how to use an ATM. In rural areas ATMs are still fairly recent so there are some older people who have simply never used them. It's a different way of life in the countryside. People need cash for things. Terrible, terrible move from the already loathsome BOI

tricky D · 04-11-2015 02:58PM

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Why? Are elderly people or rural people incapable of using a computer?

seamus wrote: »

Because elderly people are incapable of using ATMs or online banking?

Nice casual ageism there OP.

Actually, the answer is yes for the majority of people over 60 who have never been online according to AgeAction. Nothing ageist about it, quite the contrary if it becomes more difficult for them to do their banking.

And then there's other less-abled people not just the elderly.

My elderly mother likes the social contact of counter transactions and has never been on the internet. And some ATM functions beyond basic withdrawals confuse her so I have do most of that and now that'll ~treble. Coupled with statement frequency now going to 3 months, slyly removing seats from beside the queue and the inability for branch to make many autonomous decisions, the banks have become much less friendly places, especially for the elderly.

Crooked Jack · 04-11-2015 02:58PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

I do, my mother, who is suffering from alzheimer's & is very intimidated by ATM's & wouldn't know how to turn on a PC

My Da got fucked off with an ATM yesterday and he's only in his 50s. this move, typically, hasnt taken rural customers into account at all.

Firstime · 04-11-2015 03:00PM

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Why? Are elderly people or rural people incapable of using a computer?

Alot of rural areas dont even have broadband!

jam_mac_jam · 04-11-2015 03:02PM

Firstime wrote: »

Alot of rural areas dont even have broadband!

Do you need broadband for online banking? I am not disagreeing I genuinely don't know,

TommyRiordan · 04-11-2015 03:02PM

When I worked for the RBS group we deliberately made cheque books take far longer than needed for them to go out (7 working days). Had many an old women complain to me.

Also I had a dispute with Bank of Ireland about a month ago. I was complaining about my debit card still not arriving the girl hung up cus she didn't wanna listen to the complaint then I called back, got put through to her again and she failed to ID me on my second callback. Complained and they offered me a £150 cheque as long as I didn't take it further. Feels good man.

jam_mac_jam · 04-11-2015 03:04PM

tricky D wrote: »

Actually, the answer is yes for the majority of people over 60 who have never been online according to AgeAction. Nothing ageist about it, quite the contrary if it becomes more difficult for them to do their banking.

And then there's other less-abled people not just the elderly.

My elderly mother likes the social contact of counter transactions and has never been on the internet. And some ATM functions beyond basic withdrawals confuse her so I have do most of that and now that'll ~treble. Coupled with statement frequency now going to 3 months, slyly removing seats from beside the queue and the inability for branch to make many autonomous decisions, the banks have become much less friendly places, especially for the elderly.

Well both my parents, in their sixties use atms and online banking all the time so anecdotes don't really prove anything.

I really find it very patronising to suggest older people can't use online banking or atms. If they can't maybe they should move bank.

seamus · 04-11-2015 03:07PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

It's a banks duty to give you access to your funds accordingly.

And to adequately secure access to those funds to prevent unauthorised persons from getting at it.
In fact, I'd be concerned if a bank was allowing people to just present ID at the counter and withdraw cash. I'd want a few more barriers in place to prevent fraud.

Leaving your debit card in another jacket from the evening before & forgetting it the next morning is human error, it could happen to anyone...Seamus

Agreed. If it happened to me I'd probably borrow some cash from someone for my lunch and pay it back the next day.

Mesrine65 wrote: »

I do, my mother, who is suffering from alzheimer's & is very intimidated by ATM's & wouldn't know how to turn on a PC

You have my sympathies, but with all due respect it doesn't sound like your mother should be expected to go to the bank and withdraw cash in her condition anyway. I find trying to do business in-branch to be far more confusing than using an ATM.

tricky D wrote: »

Actually, the answer is yes for the majority of people over 60 who have never been online according to AgeAction. Nothing ageist about it, quite the contrary if it becomes more difficult for them to do their banking..

The world moves on. Claiming that it's not fair on the elderly is basically saying that the elderly are incapable of adapting to the modern world. Which is bull****. It's ageism.

It's not far removed from the argument that changing the drink-driving laws is unfair on the elderly and rural people. "Shure what are they to do now?". Adapt, move on with the rest of us.

If my mother in law can use a computer to check her Gmail and book tee times, then nobody else has any excuse.

kazamo · 04-11-2015 03:07PM

play it again wrote: »

Does being elderly give someone a special entitlement to be treated differently than other people

Well, it kind of does already.
No Dirt on savings for the elderly regardless of the amount held.
I think there should be a threshold and over that DIRT should be paid.
But that's another debate for another thread

whatdoicare · 04-11-2015 03:08PM

My mam and dad are only in their 60s and dont even own a computer, they dont like the internet, they have trouble making the atm do anything more than withdraw cash.
My mam goes in once a week to do all her business with the bank, shes going to be very upset by all this. She doesn't know how to check her account on the atm despite me showing her multiple times. She can barely work her mobile phone (that domu phone thing with huge buttons that doesn't do anything other than make and receive calls)
Stupid move by them really, shell go elsewhere rather than learn.

QuelleSuprise · 04-11-2015 03:12PM

whatdoicare wrote: »

My mam and dad are only in their 60s and dont even own a computer, they dont like the internet, they have trouble making the atm do anything more than withdraw cash.
My mam goes in once a week to do all her business with the bank, shes going to be very upset by all this. She doesn't know how to check her account on the atm despite me showing her multiple times. She can barely work her mobile phone (that domu phone thing with huge buttons that doesn't do anything other than make and receive calls)
Stupid move by them really, shell go elsewhere rather than learn.

Can't these people learn?

04-11-2015 03:19PM

kazamo wrote: »

Well, it kind of does already.
No Dirt on savings for the elderly regardless of the amount held.
I think there should be a threshold and over that DIRT should be paid.
But that's another debate for another thread

They're only exempt from DIRT if they don't pay income tax.

seamus wrote: »

If my mother in law can use a computer to check her Gmail and book tee times, then nobody else has any excuse.

Fair play to her. My father is in the early stages of Parkinsons and struggles to use his laptop, which he was once quite adept at.

Medusa22 · 04-11-2015 03:19PM

My parents are in their late fifties and judging by this thread they seem to be technological geniuses so I won't give out about my mother taking a while to grasp viber any more :pac:

My grandparents are in their eighties and my father is always giving out that banks are reducing the number of tellers and that most customer services are automated and that banks don't want to see you and it's the same with airlines and other companies and what are my grandparents supposed to do. I think he's just annoyed that my grandparents have to come over to my parent's house to ask them to book their flights if they're going on holiday or if they need something renewed that can be done online.

To be fair to my grandparents, one has a laptop and can send emails, and he also has a mobile phone. The other grandfather has a mobile phone too but he wouldn't have a clue how to use a laptop or the internet.

I understand that technology is more challenging for elderly people and I'm sure I'll find it more challenging when I'm older but it is really about your attitude and some people are unwilling to adapt or change, or they become stuck in their ways, and they really are capable of learning.

I am delighted that so many services are online and I avoid going into a bank at all costs if I can avoid it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 04-11-2015 03:23PM

As a pensioner living in rural Ireland, I have no problem with these proposals. I haven't stood in a bank in years.

ghostdancer · 04-11-2015 03:24PM

why are people talking about online banking/the internet?

you have to use an ATM/lodgement machine to withdraw/lodge less than €700, nothing to do with the internet/PCs?

rubberdungeon · 04-11-2015 03:25PM

For those who have children with junior accounts ( second level accounts can have an atm card but those younger than that can't), do you know how they will be treated with the new rules?

As they don't have an an entitlement to an atm card they can't withdraw via one, will they be facilitated at the counter if they wish to lodge or withdraw smaller amounts?

tricky D · 04-11-2015 03:25PM

seamus wrote: »

The world moves on. Claiming that it's not fair on the elderly is basically saying that the elderly are incapable of adapting to the modern world. Which is bull****. It's ageism.

Well, that is what happens in old age, you become less capable and require more caring, hence walking sticks, giving up seats, large buttoned phones, simplified remote and other controls and the plethora of other 'concessions' we make or are they to be dismissed as ageist? And yes if half of them have never been online, they are by definition/situation incapable of using online banking. If the bank care less about and cater less for them, then that would be where the ageism really is.

Dodge · 04-11-2015 03:25PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

this move, typically, hasnt taken rural customers into account at all.

How has it effected rural people more? Are they more likely to travel a distance to make a withdrawal in their bank branch? On what basis are they more likely to do so than urban customers with a bank branch nearby?

jimgoose · 04-11-2015 03:26PM

rubberdungeon wrote: »

For those who have children with junior accounts ( second level accounts can have an atm card but those younger than that can't), do you know how they will be treated with the new rules?

As they don't have an an entitlement to an arm card they can't withdraw via one, will they be facilitated at the counter if they wish to lodge or withdraw smaller amounts?

Load of ballacks. Children under 18 have no business of bank accounts.

darkpagandeath · 04-11-2015 03:28PM

Terrible bank, the system is constantly falling over and failing to deposit money in peoples accounts. This bank should be fined massively due to repeated occurrences of this.

kazamo · 04-11-2015 03:28PM

Valentina wrote: »

They're only exempt from DIRT if they don't pay income tax.

The threshold is 36k for a retired married couple.
How many old age pensioners are above that threshold ?

Anyone under 65 pays DIRT regardless of any income threshold.
So if DIRT kicked in, based on income for all citizens, then we would have parity.

bazza1 · 04-11-2015 03:29PM

Vote with your feet......change bank. Use the Post office or credit union. Tell the BOI why you are moving your account! Make it a business decision rather than a "human interest" decision.

Larbre34 · 04-11-2015 03:29PM

Maximilian Cool Plantation wrote: »

As a pensioner living in rural Ireland, I have no problem with these proposals. I haven't stood in a bank in years.

Good for you, carry on.

Many people will have these problems, they are the kind of cautious savers in their youth that the pillar banks were built on, they should not now be discommoded or made feel insecure about their daily business in their later years.

Folks, if you have any older relatives in this situation, offer your assistance to help them move bank.

jimgoose · 04-11-2015 03:30PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Good for you, carry on.

Many people will have these problems, they are the kind of cautious savers in their youth that the pillar banks were built on, they should not now be discommoded or made feel insecure about their daily business in their later years.

Folks, if you have any older relatives in this situation, offer your assistance to help them move bank.

That'll be, at best, a temporary solution. BoI aren't doing this because they're evil trolls from Hell. They are, but that's beside the point. They're doing it because they see it as a way of maximising profit, and they're not alone. They're all at it, BoI are just at the forefront of it at the moment.

Crooked Jack · 04-11-2015 03:31PM

Dodge wrote: »

How has it effected rural people more? Are they more likely to travel a distance to make a withdrawal in their bank branch? On what basis are they more likely to do so than urban customers with a bank branch nearby?

ATMs are a more recent addition to rural communities and as such many elderly people have never used them. Living in the countryside often requires cash anyway when dealing with small businesses or with neighbours (buying selling livestock/machinery etc...
Many rural cattlemarts still operate on a cash basis and traditions like luck pennies are still important in those transactions and not possible with cards.
Basically, it's just a very, very different way of life.

I'm all for moving to a cashless society by the way, but this is an ass backwards way of doing it.

Crooked Jack · 04-11-2015 03:33PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Good for you, carry on.

Many people will have these problems, they are the kind of cautious savers in their youth that the pillar banks were built on, they should not now be discommoded or made feel insecure about their daily business in their later years.

Folks, if you have any older relatives in this situation, offer your assistance to help them move bank.

Exactly! The amount of people here who think "I can do this, therefor everyone can/should" is shocking.

SEPT 23 1989 · 04-11-2015 03:34PM

The House Burglars Association of Ireland broadly welcomed this move

jimgoose · 04-11-2015 03:35PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

ATMs are a more recent addition to rural communities and as such many elderly people have never used them. Living in the countryside often requires cash anyway when dealing with small businesses or with neighbours (buying selling livestock/machinery etc...
Many rural cattlemarts still operate on a cash basis and traditions like luck pennies are still important in those transactions and not possible with cards.
Basically, it's just a very, very different way of life.

I'm all for moving to a cashless society by the way, but this is an ass backwards way of doing it.

This is it. I know a few people half my age (43) who can't make head nor arse of ATMs. Many older folk can't either, and have a fear of technology, especially as it involves entrusting their money to it. "Let 'em learn, pity about 'em!" is typical of the fcuk-you-Jack mentality you get around here the last number of years. It would be rather more pleasant and productive all round if people were gently cajoled into going cashless while running the old way of doing things alongside for a couple of years. Personally, I rarely go into a bank premises and it wouldn't bother me if I never encountered a slack-jawed Ultan or Aoife again. :pac:

conorhal · 04-11-2015 03:38PM

I don't know how supportive people will be of this nonsense when the next 'Ulsterbank IT outage' removes their access to cash, there's no branch within an hundred miles (but you can skype your customer representitive in Mumbai) and they are not sure when you'll have access to your money.

I suspect that the end of cash, which banks would dearly love to see, will also be the end of privacy and will facilitate the rise of totalitarianism. Digital money has never made it easier for both governments and criminals to steal from your bank account on a much grander scale then was previously possible.

All that and the fact that I prefer the pace and interpersonal experience of face to face interaction, on line customer care is impersonal and infuriating. This isn't progress, it's the opposite.

Bank of Ireland announce disgusting attack on the elderly

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