What's more Irish - accent or birthplace?

whatismyname · 26-10-2015 05:42PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

Thing is there's no such thing as an 'Irish' accent? Is it a Cavan accent? Ulster? Cork? South Dublin? North Dublin? Kerry?

Whichever. It's not all that relevant to the point I was making.

Go outside Ireland having an accent from any of those areas, people will likely recognise that you're Irish, even if they don't know what part.

And there's a fairly decent chance that you might also be asked to say 33 and a third at some point.

Living abroad, people could ask me where I'm from,but I learned fairly quickly that there was little point in replying with 'Ireland' as I always got the response 'I know that, which part?'

Seven years living abroad now and my accent's as strong as ever, so unlikely to ever be any disguising where I'm from or being mistaken for being from anywhere but The Emerald Isle.

The Corinthian · 26-10-2015 05:48PM

whatismyname wrote: »

Go outside Ireland having an accent from any of those areas, people will likely recognise that you're Irish, even if they don't know what part.

Nope. Presuming they even know what an Irish accent is and their English is good enough to pick up on one, many will confuse Irish accents with Scottish or even English ones.

And there's a fairly decent chance that you might also be asked to say 33 and a third at some point.

Not all Irishmen can't pronounce th's.

Living abroad, people could ask me where I'm from,but I learned fairly quickly that there was little point in replying with 'Ireland' as I always got the response 'I know that, which part?'

Again, depends where you live. There are plenty of countries out there that are not as familiar with Ireland.

whatismyname · 26-10-2015 05:54PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

Nope. Presuming they even know what an Irish accent is and their English is good enough to pick up on one, many will confuse Irish accents with Scottish or even English ones.

Exactly. Hence why I said 'people will likely' I didn't say they will always recognise the person is from Ireland.

Not all Irishmen can't pronounce th's.

I didn't say that all Irish people can't pronoune their th's. I said there's a fairly decent chance that you might be asked to say 33 and a third. Made no comment at all on whether the person would then be able to pronounce the th afterwards or not.

Again, depends where you live. There are plenty of countries out there that are not as familiar with Ireland.

Yes. Notice how I shared a piece of my own personal experience, and did not say that that would be the case in every country in the world?

So, em... yay.

Martial9 · 26-10-2015 06:06PM

feargale wrote: »

I see. Then you should talk to your American and Australian cousins about who the real Americans and Australians are.

The native tribes and Inuits. He is kind of right about people with Irish surnames probably having ancestry stretching back further than the rest of us.

DNA testing through the male Y chromosome has shown that Irish males have the highest incidence of the haplogroup 1 gene in Europe. While other parts of Europe have integrated contiuous waves of new settlers from Asia, Ireland's remote geographical position has meant that the Irish gene-pool has been less susceptible to change. The same genes have been passed down from parents to children for thousands of years.

This is mirrored in genetic studies which have compared DNA analysis with Irish surnames. Many surnames in Irish are Gaelic surnames, suggesting that the holder of the surname is a descendant of people who lived in Ireland long before the English conquests of the Middle Ages. Men with Gaelic surnames, showed the highest incidences of Haplogroup 1 (or Rb1) gene. This means that those Irish whose ancestors pre-date English conquest of the island are direct descendants of early stone age settlers who migrated from Spain.

http://www.sott.net/article/263587-DNA-shows-Irish-people-have-more-complex-origins-than-previously-thought

It is not really that important and doesn't make them more Irish. Similarly, playing GAA, participating in traditional music, dance or speaking Irish doesn't really make you more Irish than someone who doesn't.

Kev_2012 · 26-10-2015 07:29PM

I was born in England to Irish parents and moved to Ireland at 3 and grew up there. Strong Limerick City accent and only ever had an Irish passport.

Checked my lineage as far back as possible (about 200 years) every single one of them was born in Ireland. I also have a norman surname.

I of course consider myself Irish and always will. You wanna be Irish and have a connection? Then you are AFAIAC!

Fred Swanson · 26-10-2015 09:04PM

This post has been deleted.

Tony EH · 27-10-2015 12:30AM

I suppose it's where you grow up that determines, to a large degree, if you're Irish, or what have you.

You can be born in Scotland to a long line of Scottish ancestry and live in Finland for the rest of your life. Are you Scottish or Finnish? It's difficult to say. I suppose in that case, it's what one feels themselves to be.

I suppose a lot depends on your racial makeup too on how people perceive you. If you're Indian looking, but grew up in Rings End, to most people you're Indian. I don't think that's a slight on anyone, it just is.

As I said, it probably just comes down to what the person feels themselves.

27-10-2015 12:37AM

I have an Irish name, Irish passport, Irish accent and have lived in Ireland for most of my life. So therefore would consider myself Irish! Was born in England to an Irish Mother and English Father. Would not consider myself English at all.

The Backwards Man · 27-10-2015 12:42AM

Lia_lia wrote: »

I have an Irish name, Irish passport, Irish accent and have lived in Ireland for most of my life. So therefore would consider myself Irish! Was born in England to an Irish Mother and English Father. Would not consider myself English at all.

Unless you know where your great great great great great Granny drew water for the spuds that's no good for some folk here! :P Ya big Beano!

Ave Sodalis · 27-10-2015 12:54AM

The Corinthian wrote:

Thing is there's no such thing as an 'Irish' accent? Is it a Cavan accent? Ulster? Cork? South Dublin? North Dublin? Kerry?

No such thing as an Ulster accent either

Seriously though, anyone who holds Irish citizenship and identifies as Irish is enough for me in my books. This crap about surnames is exactly that... crap. I've an Irish surname. My family have lived in the same area for at least the last 100 years, if you follow that surname. If you look up the history of our name, it goes very far back. But that doesn't mean that at some stage, there wasn't some foreign blood mixed in through marriage some time between when the history of the general surname ended and the start of the more personal lineage began recording. I don't for one second believe that every single person in your direct lineage had come from a family with ancient Irish roots. You surname, maybe but that doesn't account for marriages and their family.

MakeEmLaugh · 27-10-2015 01:21AM

Ruairí Ó Brádaigh was the most uncompromising Irish republican of the 20th century (not saying whether this is a bad or good thing).

His grandmother was a French-speaking Swiss woman.

LordSutch · 27-10-2015 01:39AM

Lia_lia wrote: »

I have an Irish name, Irish passport, Irish accent and have lived in Ireland for most of my life. So therefore would consider myself Irish! Was born in England to an Irish Mother and English Father. Would not consider myself English at all.

Born in England with an English Dad, surely that makes you half English?

PS: What do you mean when you say you have an Irish name?

Teafor two12345 · 27-10-2015 01:43AM

I've decided my name is Polina and I am Russian.And damn it to hell if anyone says otherwise.

27-10-2015 01:45AM

If I was abroad and someone asked me what country I was from I wouldn't say "half English half Irish". :rolleyes:

I have an Irish firstname and surname.

Didn't realise some people felt so strongly about this!

LordSutch · 27-10-2015 01:52AM

Lia_lia wrote: »

If I was abroad and someone asked me what country I was from I wouldn't say "half English half Irish". :rolleyes:

I have an Irish firstname and surname.

Didn't realise some people felt so strongly about this!

People are always saying I'm half this, or half that, nothing special there.

During the Rugby world cup one of my cousins had dual allegiances, as his mum was Welsh with his Dad being Irish, he's proud of his dual heritage, which is cool, specially if you have two teams to follow

youreadthat · 27-10-2015 06:26AM

josephryan1989 wrote: »

The Iron Age isn't far enough back for you?

I can trace my ancestors back to the early 18th century on both sides. Gaelic Irish all the way.

If there's one thing the Iron Age is known for it's the family history documentation they left behind.

Teafor two12345 · 27-10-2015 06:58AM

This thread has become ridiculous :-/???

Mother Brain · 27-10-2015 02:42PM

I was born in Scotland to Scottish parents, have a British passport but have lived here since 1992. I have an Irish accent and mindset but curiously never would call myself Irish. I have no real admiration for Irish traditions or culture.

I chalk it up to being bullied for being a "Brit" and a "prod" when I came over here to a semi rural area. I was made to feel very much an outsider for a long time. All during primary school in fact. (Despite quickly becoming top of the class in irish!)

At this stage I feel no allegiance to any nation and view any sort of nationalism as a ridiculous hang over of the 20th century.

Funny the way things turn out!

oceanid · 27-10-2015 04:14PM

Mother Brain wrote: »

At this stage I feel no allegiance to any nation and view any sort of nationalism as a ridiculous hang over of the 20th century.

Would living in a place for over 20 years not indicate some allegiance? Assuming it's by choice.

The Corinthian · 27-10-2015 04:20PM

oceanid wrote: »

Would living in a place for over 20 years not indicate some allegiance? Assuming it's by choice.

I'd imagine when you grow up somewhere, it's usually by your parents' choice.

Mother Brain · 27-10-2015 04:48PM

oceanid wrote: »

Would living in a place for over 20 years not indicate some allegiance? Assuming it's by choice.

Not really as far as I'm concerned. It's just where I ended up. I'm sure people all over the world end up places they hold no 'allegiance' to but have to be there for one reason or another.

I have wanted to emigrate for years but haven't really had the funds thanks to the recession, and anywhere I have looked into emigrating seems fairly difficult to get into on a British passport in any case.

Martial9 · 27-10-2015 05:02PM

Mother Brain wrote: »

I have wanted to emigrate for years but haven't really had the funds thanks to the recession, and anywhere I have looked into emigrating seems fairly difficult to get into on a British passport in any case.

You have the rest of the EU/EEA(for now) and relatively handy working holiday visas for Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc available to you.

Experience_day · 27-10-2015 05:15PM

With the amount of abuse I took growing up here because I had an English accent (inspite of parents, grandparents etc etc), I'd rather not identify as Irish anymore. A person without a country...

And frankly there's so many of us "foreigners", but y'all be a minority soon enough anyway. Dublin is already well on its way to becoming like London. God help ya!

MakeEmLaugh · 27-10-2015 05:21PM

Experience_day wrote: »

Frankly there's so many of us "foreigners", but y'all be a minority soon enough anyway. Dublin is already well on its way to becoming like London. God help ya!

87.4 per cent of the Irish state is White Irish.

People of colour make up 5.7 per cent.

It would take a long time for that 5.7 per cent to become the dominant group in the country.

Mother Brain · 27-10-2015 05:27PM

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

87.4 per cent of the Irish state is White Irish.

People of colour make up 5.7 per cent.

It would take a long time for that 5.7 per cent to become the dominant group in the country.

Probably a much higher proportion of the population of Dublin is non white Irish though compared to the rest of the country. He was talking about Dublin after all.

I'd say it's greater than 90% white in the rest of the country.

Experience_day · 27-10-2015 05:37PM

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

87.4 per cent of the Irish state is White Irish.

People of colour make up 5.7 per cent.

It would take a long time for that 5.7 per cent to become the dominant group in the country.

First google article from 2014.

http://www.thejournal.ie/poverty-children-ireland-immigrant-non-irish-1599272-Aug2014/

One in four children in Ireland are born to a non-Irish mother

Doesn't take long. Quite right as well. Bring down the borders and the pettiness will go.

MakeEmLaugh · 27-10-2015 05:42PM

Experience_day wrote: »

First google article from 2014.

http://www.thejournal.ie/poverty-children-ireland-immigrant-non-irish-1599272-Aug2014/

One in four children in Ireland are born to a non-Irish mother

Doesn't take long. Quite right as well. Bring down the borders and the pettiness will go.

So you're saying about 75 per cent of children are born to an Irish mother and father?

And the other 25 per cent may have one Irish parent?

It will take a long time for those born of a non-Irish parent (which doesn't preclude a person's Irishness, by the way - Patrick Pearse and Charles Stewart Parnell had parents from England and America respectively) to 'outnumber' the rest of the country.

The Corinthian · 27-10-2015 05:51PM

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Patrick Pearse and Charles Stewart Parnell had parents from England and America respectively) to 'outnumber' the rest of the country.

Don't forget Éamon "please don't execute me, I'm American" de Valera.

oceanid · 27-10-2015 06:11PM

Experience_day wrote: »

With the amount of abuse I took growing up here because I had an English accent (inspite of parents, grandparents etc etc), I'd rather not identify as Irish anymore.

Obviously that's just wrong. Someone's accent is not what being Irish is about(unless there's no hint of Irishness at all in it). There are dozens of different accents in Ireland itself. As well as this some people pick up accents more easily than others. The idea that you have to have the same accent as ancestors to qualify as Irish makes no sense as most people do not stay in the same locality as they grew up. So people can end up with mixed urban/rural accents or what could be said isn't a 'pure' accent easily traceable to one particular place.

Most British accents are fairly easily understandable I would say. The only time I would be bothered a bit by an accent is when it gets in the way of actual communication. Some Irish accents even are like this. Maybe not so much nowadays, but it's happened when talking to someone with a strong regional accent.

Sir Osis of Liver. · 27-10-2015 06:37PM

Teafor two12345 wrote: »

This thread has become ridiculous :-/???

It was doing grand until yer man came on saying you weren't Irish unless your lineage could be traced back on both sides to Neanderthal Ireland.

What's more Irish - accent or birthplace?

Comments