What's more Irish - accent or birthplace?

MakeEmLaugh

This isn't a wholly serious question, but I wonder how much emphasis those of us born and raised in Ireland place on accents. It seems accents are a hugely defining characteristic in how others designate someone's Irishness.

Taking someone like Michael Fassbender. Born in Germany, has a very German-sounding last name, but speaks with an Irish accent. The Irish press seems to have no problem claiming him as Irish.

But then look at an actor like Michael Gambon. Born in Dublin, raised Catholic but has a very English-accent. The Irish press, too, has claimed him as Irish.

Personally, which of these make you think of a person as Irish (or any nationality)?

Birthplace, or accent?

dd972

Shane MacGowan has neither but he's still Irish through and through, then you have the likes of Francis Bacon or the Duke of Wellington thoroughly English in background and accent despite being born and raised here, these things are elastic and nuanced.

dodderangler

Neither. Must smell of Guinness and ham cabbage and badatoes
And finish every sentence with be gosh or be gara or sweet mother Devine Jaysus. Also walks around whistling lonesome boatman and discussing the Shiite weather

I reckon I'm as irish as you'd get

The Backwards Man

Neither.

There's a big black Yank beside me that makes his own bread, churns his own butter, and stews his own jam. And he's handy at the turf too. Makes him more Irish than any poncy actor!

steamengine

Accent is really a superficial thing, definitely birthplace but even more so the specific part of Ireland where one's ancestors, particularly the male line, lived for generations.

riclad

I Lived near athlone, i had a country accent,
moved to dublin age 18 , now i have a dublin accent.
i did not try to change my accent .
Some djs have a bland mid atlantic accent ,
could be irish or english .
I think when you have an accent when you are 25 ,it,ll never change .
IT,S funny who many big american actors, comedians are born in canada,
and just make usa tv films,
Many people probably just assume they are american.
they have an american accent .
IF you are born in ireland , you,ll always be irish .even if you have an english accent .

Richard Hillman

Mannerisms.

Ruu

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Mannerisms.

*monocle falls out*

bee06

Why does it have to be one or the other? Michael Fassbender was born in Germany but grew up in Kerry so had an Irish childhood. Someone might be born in Ireland, grow up in England with an English accent but still feel Irish because they grew up with Irish parents in an Irish ex-pat community. They can all identify as Irish as far as I'm concerned.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

To be fair to Mr. Fassbender there's no need to 'claim' him. He was raised in Kerry and has an Irish passport so he's as Irish as anybody. Saying he has a German sounding name doesn't really make him German, it's not like we can say sure Shaquille O Neal must be Irish because he has an O in his surname. So to partly answer your question does accent or birthplace make someone Irish or not, it's certainly not surnames.

I googled Michael Gambon and it says he moved away from Dublin aged 5 and grew up in England. He has dual citizenship so he can be considered an 'Anglo-Irish' person I guess, and a lot of people would fit the 'Anglo-Irish' description to be fair, I guess you could consider it almost its own identity in a way?

I think accents can tell a lot more about a person than their birthplace anyway as your accent reflects more of who you are/where you came from. Like a white South African could 'blend' into a European country without really standing out as 'different', but once they open their mouths you can tell very quickly that they are African. In a somewhat awkward way I'm trying to say accents can tell you more about a person than their race, which I find somewhat odd as skin colour is made out to be such a big deal.

Canadel

Very strong accents are rather annoying after the novelty wears off. A neutral accent is by far the most pleasant in my experience, and I don't refer to D4 when I say neutral, rather simply well spoken and refined without desperately attempting to inform others of where you are from through an exaggerated twang. Basically people choose to have strong accents once they reach a certain age if they have received any decent sort of speech and therapy training in school.

catbear

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

But then look at an actor like Michael Gambon. Born in Dublin, raised Catholic but has a very English-accent. The Irish press, too, has claimed him as Irish.

So only catholics can have an Irish accent?

Boring username

Funny, most Irish actors and celebrities dump the accent the first chance they get don'tchaknowohMyGawd

ygolometsipe

I wonder would Mr Fassbender be able to talk to the Germans
about getting out Taytos back since he knows them and all.

LeeLooLee

Accent because that means you most likely grew up in Ireland and know the country well.

4zn76tysfajdxp

dd972 wrote: »

Shane MacGowan has neither but he's still Irish through and through

He's not, really.

Precious flower

I was born in England but spent most of my life here so I would consider myself Irish. Depends on what the person feels them self really.

LordSutch

dd972 wrote: »

Shane MacGowan has neither but he's still Irish through and through, then you have the likes of Francis Bacon or the Duke of Wellington thoroughly English in background and accent despite being born and raised here, these things are elastic and nuanced.

Good answer to a tricky & debatable question.

Its a personal thing.

DanielODonnell

Irish accents are only a modern thing as they only formed when English started to be spoken, for example if you hear an Ulsterman speak irish or a Scot speaking Gaelic the distinct accents aren't that noticeable.

In my eyes the term "Irish" is simply a modern tag in this modern world of political divisions.

Anyone can be Irish if they move to Hibernia but to be a Gael you need to have it in your blood. Irishmen and Gaels are not equal.
Dublin is viewed as the stronghold of everything Irish but it was never the stronghold of the Gaelic world.

Another way of explaining it is that it is possible to move to Australia and gain citizenship but it doesn't mean you are aboriginal, even if you go and live in an aboriginal community.

MakeEmLaugh

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

But then look at an actor like Michael Gambon. Born in Dublin, raised Catholic but has a very English accent. The Irish press, too, has claimed him as Irish.

catbear wrote: »

So only catholics can have an Irish accent?

I'm sorry, I don't follow you.

feargale

You have a few open soup packets in the dresser, all with just a little left, but enough altogether to make a bowl of soup. You pour them all into the pot, tomato, oxtail, leek and chicken. You stir it continuously, bringing it to the boil. Then you pour it out and slobber up a spoonful. What did you slobber up, tomato, oxtail, leek or chicken?

TheLastMohican

State of mind. That's it!

Calibos

I've got Scandinavian ancestors who emigrated to northern France and eventually settled in Bray after a short stay in Britain. Dropped the 'le' part of the name sometime in the last 800 years since. Am I Irish or a Gael?

Wompa1

Born in the US. Parents moved me to Ireland when I was 1. Grew up and lived in Ireland for 26 years. I'd consider myself to be Irish, though, plenty of times growing up and even in recent years I have been told by others that I'm not.

Galwayguy35

It's not accent anyway listing to the way people who are teenagers and in their early 20s talk, they grew up in the same area as my generation and speak with an accent that's something between Dublin 4 and Beverly hills 90210.

Wompa1

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It's not accent anyway listing to the way people who are teenagers and in their early 20s talk, they grew up in the same area as my generation and speak with an accent that's something between Dublin 4 and Beverly hills 90210.

In Galway, like?

Galwayguy35

Wompa1 wrote: »

In Galway, like?

Ha yeah hard to believe!

Lucky you though, being born in the US, it's great to have the choice of living in either country.

I'd be out of here in a shot if I had American citizenship.

OhDearyMe

Going to go with neither. I know plenty of people who weren't born in Ireland but were raised there - 2 of my siblings, for example. Accents are not fixed either - I know people who've moved away and they're accent has adapted to their adopted country but they're obviously Irish as Irish can be.

dd972

Henry Muscular Spike wrote: »

He's not, really.

So he's a Brit then?, you'd end up with less teeth than him if you called him that at a Pogues gig :pac: He's got two Irish parents, Irish citizenship and lived here on and off over the years, I'd guess that'd make him pretty much...er.....Irish?

sligojoek

He was born prematurely, in Kent, when his parents were over visiting relatives for xmas. After xmas he was brought home again and lived in Tipperary till he was 6 or 7. After that his parents emmigrated to London. He would have picked up his accent after that. He's spent most of the last 30 years between Tipp and Dublin and only goes to London for work. He holds an Irish passport. I've seen it.

Teafor two12345

Accent?