Pitbull - Reality bites... RTE 2

Bonedigger · 23-10-2015 10:57AM

arayess wrote: »

i hate this attitude , i see dog owners on facebook saying it's how you treat the dog and not the breed causes aggressive dogs.
While this is true , some breeds are naturally aggressive and have massive amount of strength and power.
Some dog owner need a kick in the b0llocks.

Which breeds are naturally aggressive?

kylith · 23-10-2015 11:01AM

Overall I thought it was a good programme, though I was saddened to see so many dogs with cropped ears. I too would have liked to see more pit bull owners from outside Dublin. I know those guys looked after their dogs well but unfortunately a strong Dublin accent has a certain stereotyped image outside Dublin and the programme didn't do much to dispel the idea that pits are the preserve of inner city hardchaws.

DamagedTrax · 23-10-2015 11:07AM

kylith wrote: »

Overall I thought it was a good programme, though I was saddened to see so many dogs with cropped ears. I too would have liked to see more pit bull owners from outside Dublin. I know those guys looked after their dogs well but unfortunately a strong Dublin accent has a certain stereotyped image outside Dublin and the programme didn't do much to dispel the idea that pits are the preserve of inner city hardchaws.

All the bull breed owner interviews were sourced at shows where they came to film us initially.

A lot more people were asked to be involved but refused because of how the media usually puts a slant on these things (which was even mentioned by J Tucker in the show).

kylith · 23-10-2015 11:10AM

DamagedTrax wrote: »

All the bull breed owner interviews were sourced at shows where they came to film us initially.

A lot more people were asked to be involved but refused because of how the media usually puts a slant on these things (which was even mentioned by J Tucker in the show).

Thanks for the info. I'd love a pit myself. It's a shame that media bias is so bad that people are wary of even talking about their dogs.

borderlinemeath · 23-10-2015 11:13AM

Damaged Trax, do you know any of the dogs that are cropped? Are they all rescues, or have some owners imported cropped dogs? It really upsets me to see it on any breed.

Oh and another question for you. Why do so many of the owners on the organised walks not use harnesses? They seem to be getting dragged by their dogs and even though the dogs have a very muscular neck I would imagine it would do damage to the muscles/trachea at some stage.

Stranger Danger · 23-10-2015 11:16AM

seamus wrote: »

More people are killed by cattle - bulls in particular - in Ireland than by all other animals combined, yet there's never any programmes or massive headline stories about it, or people saying that all farm animals should be banned.

Probably because you don't see bulls in residential housing estates or running around the local park on a Sunday.

seamus · 23-10-2015 11:17AM

Stranger Danger wrote: »

Probably because you don't see bulls in residential housing estates or running around the local park on a Sunday.

And yet somehow they still manage to cause more carnage than loose dogs.

OldNotWIse · 23-10-2015 11:21AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

There seems to be a trend towards blaming parents for a child's interaction with a dog. Not necessarily the case you describe but I was out with my niece in a park and a staffie came up to her and although playful it nearly knocked her down. She was terrified of the thing (they're quite unnecessarily muscular for a small dog) and hit out at its nose out of fright. It didn't look happy and growled at her until its owners (a nice couple) came back.

They said "the child shouldn't have got nervous" as Ted's lovely. The child couldn't help getting nervous ffs as she's still a child and reacts on instinct. Some people think the world should love dogs the way they do. Also I don't think anyone should have a dog that sees its garden as territory. I posted in the pets forum about two labs that ran out of a garden and bit a friend of mine recently.

I agree with you, and my experience is the other side of the same coin - parents letting their children maul my dog without my permission. I stopped taking her to the park because of the amount of parents encouraging their child to "run over and pet (thump) the bow wow". She's a dog, not a toy and just because she is small doesn't mean your kid can come running over all arms and legs and shrieking and scare the bejaysus out of her. I do remember making a point of holding her in the air one day and politely asking an idiot parent to "call his child off".

DamagedTrax · 23-10-2015 11:28AM

Damaged Trax, do you know any of the dogs that are cropped? Are they all rescues, or have some owners imported cropped dogs? It really upsets me to see it on any breed.

Its not something i agree with either. Some off the cropped amstaffs in the programme were imported, others i have no idea.

i was also glad to see the guy breeding the rotties was keeping the tails.

Oh and another question for you. Why do so many of the owners on the organised walks not use harnesses? They seem to be getting dragged by their dogs and even though the dogs have a very muscular neck I would imagine it would do damage to the muscles/trachea at some stage.

Safety reasons, i wont use one myself either.

to understand you have to know that apbt and staffs are generally terrier type or bulldog type - which i know you do! i'll just explain it for others

If you have a lively terrier type dog that pulls from the head, a harness connected midway down the spine gives the dog far too much leverage in a situation. a neck collar allows you to keep their head closer to you and control their turns. also the collars we use are 1.5" to 2" in width so the load is spread out. it pains me to see a dog pulling hard on a little petstore bought collar when there are collars made for the purpose.

im personally not a fan of the studded collar either. i prefer a simple & extra sturdy webbing type myself.

This is my bitch in hers.

10365776_10152038417176050_2328279612168236856_n1_zps551a1248.jpg

on the other hand if you have a real bulldog type apbt/staff, their pure body strength means a harness gives you a better weight distribution and being the type of dog they are, there's less chance of a fast turn if another dog zooms past.

borderlinemeath · 23-10-2015 11:31AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I agree with you, and my experience is the other side of the same coin - parents letting their children maul my dog without my permission. I stopped taking her to the park because of the amount of parents encouraging their child to "run over and pet (thump) the bow wow". She's a dog, not a toy and just because she is small doesn't mean your kid can come running over all arms and legs and shrieking and scare the bejaysus out of her. I do remember making a point of holding her in the air one day and politely asking an idiot parent to "call his child off".

I think each situation needs to apportion blame on merit. In the poster above situation the dog owner was most definitely in the wrong. But...every time I see that kid that trespassed into their neighbours garden and got mauled by the husky it really upsets me. I've read newspaper reports and last nights programme was the third time I've seen the mother and son on TV and not once has she said that her child shouldn't have trespassed. She said on last nights programme that he shouldn't go into a garden to pet a strange dog, but he entered somebodys property uninvited and the dog lost his life for it. Yes, the child got badly mauled, and will be scarred as a result but he should have been taught not to go into other peoples gardens. It was something that was taught to me as a child, and we had pets on either side, I was always mad to get in to the neighbours cats (we had dogs and cats were a novelty to me) but I wasn't allowed and if I was caught hanging over the wall trying to entice the cat to come to me I usually got given out to or probably got a slap on the @rse as well. There is a pervasive lack of responsibility with a lot of parents, they tend to look for something else to blame for their own shortcomings.

kylith · 23-10-2015 11:40AM

DamagedTrax wrote: »

to understand you have to know that apbt and staffs are generally terrier type or bulldog type - which i know you do! i'll just explain it for others

If you have a lively terrier type dog that pulls from the head, a harness connected midway down the spine gives the dog far too much leverage in a situation. a neck collar allows you to keep their head closer to you and control their turns. also the collars we use are 1.5" to 2" in width so the load is spread out. it pains me to see a dog pulling hard on a little petstore bought collar when there are collars made for the purpose.

im personally not a fan of the studded collar either. i prefer a simple & extra sturdy webbing type.

on the other hand if you have a real bulldog type apbt/staff, their pure body strength means a harness gives you a better weight distribution and being the type of dog they are, there's less chance of a fast turn if another dog zooms past.

Something like a harness with a front connection will help stop pulling. I know from experience that terriers can be headstrong but not one of them seemed to have been trained to walk to heel.

borderlinemeath · 23-10-2015 11:40AM

DamagedTrax wrote: »

Its not something i agree with either. Some off the cropped amstaffs in the programme were imported, others i have no idea.

i was also glad to see the guy breeding the rotties was keeping the tails.

I loved the rotties, I have a soft spot for rotts and dobies, they're just fantastic dogs, and any rottie I've met has been the typical cuddle monster

Safety reasons, i wont use one myself either.

to understand you have to know that apbt and staffs are generally terrier type or bulldog type - which i know you do! i'll just explain it for others

If you have a lively terrier type dog that pulls from the head, a harness connected midway down the spine gives the dog far too much leverage in a situation. a neck collar allows you to keep their head closer to you and control their turns. also the collars we use are 1.5" to 2" in width so the load is spread out. it pains me to see a dog pulling hard on a little petstore bought collar when there are collars made for the purpose.

im personally not a fan of the studded collar either. i prefer a simple & extra sturdy webbing type myself.

This is my bitch in hers.

on the other hand if you have a real bulldog type apbt/staff, their pure body strength means a harness gives you a better weight distribution and being the type of dog they are, there's less chance of a fast turn if another dog zooms past.

Understandable, but there's loads of harness options, I'm not a fan of the back attaching harness myself, but I use lots of front harnesses and also ones that double attach to the collar so head control is also a possibility. Something like the easywalk or the freedom harness would be my preferences.

I think those studded collars are hideous myself.

DamagedTrax · 23-10-2015 11:46AM

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Understandable, but there's loads of harness options, I'm not a fan of the back attaching harness myself, but I use lots of front harnesses and also ones that double attach to the collar so head control is also a possibility. Something like the easywalk or the freedom harness would be my preferences.

but thats assuming you want the dog to heel. if you're out hard walking for 2 hours its like a work out. i keep dolly to heel on the streets but once we're off the roads i let her pull her heart out if she wants.

some people like casual strolls with their dogs, others like hard walking workouts.

I think those studded collars are hideous myself.

yup, i dont get it at all. bit silly trying to make a hard looking dog look harder, its not as if enough people arent afraid of them already.

DamagedTrax · 23-10-2015 11:57AM

kylith wrote: »

Something like a harness with a front connection will help stop pulling. I know from experience that terriers can be headstrong but not one of them seemed to have been trained to walk to heel.

most are trained to heel and besides the reasons i mentioned above, when they're walking in a pack situation its a walk for the dogs. they want to be out in front with their heads up, they're just that type of dog.

i find it also very good to help bring on confidence especially with new rescues that are a little fragile, they suddenly feel part of something important when they're walking alongside confident dogs. as we know, the safest bull breed is the confident bull breed... and btw, we certainly dont let them dictate where we go. they still know who the boss is.

just as a lot of herding dogs will herd, a lot of strong dogs will pull. its what they enjoy doing.

degsie · 23-10-2015 12:13PM

I'd swear that some owners would tattoo their dogs if the could, instead they go with the studded/spiked collars.

borderlinemeath · 23-10-2015 12:24PM

degsie wrote: »

I'd swear that some owners would tattoo their dogs if the could, instead they go with the studded collars.

Oh it's been done alright! Not here but in states for sure.

steddyeddy · 23-10-2015 12:37PM

Bonedigger wrote: »

Which breeds are naturally aggressive?

I agree with you Bone but I would guess that some breeds are less social than others and could turn aggressively more readily than others.

DamagedTrax · 23-10-2015 12:48PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I agree with you Bone but I would guess that some breeds are less social than others and could turn aggressively more readily than others.

just to be PC (which i normally hate!), lets say that some types within breeds can be less social than others.

a ring full of staffords at a KC show is a very different thing to a ring full of working type staffords at a county fair.

it goes back to what i said earlier about the importance of understanding your dog himself, before looking at specific breed attributes.

wexford awake · 23-10-2015 05:10PM

I think everybody has breeds they don't like, but I think the Irish times a few months back had a good article and hit the nail in the head, when they said that dog bites have risen 50% since restricted breed legislation has been introduced, and that the legislation was misleading. Any dog can bite and some people assume that the only dogs that would do harm are the ones on the list. only during the week a collie mauled and seriously injured a young boy in I think Waterford (I stand to be corrected if it occurred in another county). Basically I think that some restricted breeds aren't getting the socialisation they need because of these laws. Dogs hate muzzles and may blatantly refuse to wear one, also there is evidence to suggest that it can drive on aggression in a dog. Owners don't want the agro of having authorities on their backs so they walk the dog in a very secluded area where they won't meet anyone that will complain them for not wearing a muzzle. The restricted breed list should be scrapped and the law should be that every dog must be on a lead at all times in public. i personally have no problem with a dog being off the lead if they walk past me and my dog without causing a stir, but some will follow and attack my dog who is always on the lead. The law has to act both ways. if my dog caused injury to a loose attacking dog, is he liable to get in to trouble with the warden.
Also one issue I had with one family on the programme, was the little girl Being WALKED by the big brown Mastiff. This isnt a breed specific complaint because all dogs love to pull on leads, especially young untrained ones but that is that how walkies go every evening, well that father needs a good kick to wake him up, because that dog will pull her to the ground and even worse to oncoming traffic.

steddyeddy · 23-10-2015 05:16PM

Dog fatalities would be a better indication of danger. My friend's Pekinese always bites me but I'd rather that bit me than his Alsatian.

wexford awake · 23-10-2015 05:20PM

well that peckinese should be muzzled then:eek:

steddyeddy · 23-10-2015 05:22PM

wexford awake wrote: »

well that peckinese should be muzzled then:eek:

Well all dogs can bite. Some are more likely to kill than others (because of their power).

wexford awake · 23-10-2015 05:27PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well all dogs can bite. Some are more likely to kill than others (because of their power).

Im afraid while that may be true, terriers have killed children, one killed a baby a few months back in the UK.

Youngblood.III · 23-10-2015 05:30PM

When I actually see a responsible owner of a RB with a muzzle and proper harness/ lead in public....will unfortunately be the first time.

I live in a city...most people with RB are knackers...sorry to responsible owners but it's true.

borderlinemeath · 23-10-2015 05:31PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well all dogs can bite. Some are more likely to kill than others (because of their power).

Tell that to the family of the new baby that was killed by a Jack Russell in the UK.

Bad breeding has a lot to do with temperament and aggression. The most people aggressive dog I know is a bichon, followed closely by a cocker spaniel. Both breeds would be favourites of puppy farms and back yard breeders who don't give a damn about the temperament of the pup they sell.

scamalert · 23-10-2015 05:39PM

Dog breeds arent an issue,its idiot owners that deserve every slack.
Getting high energy pets,leaving them outside all day long to bark their heads off,stupid cat owners leaving cats outside-to annoy every other animal around,and then come back home to pet your toy and toss it out again into the garden.

DamagedTrax · 23-10-2015 05:42PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Dog fatalities would be a better indication of danger. My friend's Pekinese always bites me but I'd rather that bit me than his Alsatian.

we have no deaths attributed to apbt or staffords in this country thankfully.

23-10-2015 05:42PM

You're a lot less likely to survive a savaging from a pit bull or husky intact than you are a jack russell. All dogs can bite, some breeds are more likely to bite and can do more damage on average than others.

The amount of Huskies and Malamutes I've seen in city suburbs is ridiculous, these are working dogs and not pets, they need a particular kind of lifestyle and can't be shoehorned into suburban pet mode just because someone likes the look of them.

I love dogs, most of the problems they cause are because they're forced into an existence they simply aren't able for.

DamagedTrax · 23-10-2015 05:44PM

Candie wrote: »

You're a lot less likely to survive a savaging from a pit bull

And as we have no pitbull related deaths in ireland, you are also a lot less likely to need to actually survive a savaging by a pitbull, than ANY other breed that has a human death attributed to it in ireland.

Statistics can be used unwittingly in the wrong way. Dont stoop to how the media try to play people.

wexford awake · 23-10-2015 05:45PM

Youngblood.III wrote: »

When I actually see a responsible owner of a RB with a muzzle and proper harness/ lead in public....will unfortunately be the first time.

I live in a city...most people with RB are knackers...sorry to responsible owners but it's true.

No they're not, get out of your comfort zone knacker city and travel the rest of the country. I never see restricted breeds on muzzles (once only I think), and they're not knackers they are working class people, if thats good enough for you.
They are responsible, they fence in their dog and dont allow them to roam like other small dogs and big dogs going in and out of oncoming traffic. The muzzling law has nothing got to do with responsibility, just another stupid law. Better make sure all those responsible owners of so called harmless breeds of dogs pick up their dog **** after them, don't a child go blind. I had a non restricted breed of medium sized terrier dog come in to my property while I was walking my German Shepherd and kill my GrandMothers 19 year old cat, who has been her companion since my GrandFather died, and I swear it will be the death of her, she is still mourning her loss, dog still roaming free to do more damage. If my german shepherd ran in to a house and killed a cat, the dangerous dog ****e is all we'd hear

Pitbull - Reality bites... RTE 2

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