Pitbull - Reality bites... RTE 2

kneemos · 22-10-2015 10:33PM

LaGlisse wrote: »

People should not have huskies in Ireland unless they live on a farm or something it's just pure cruelty. The amount of people you see with them who haven't a clue but just have them as they look cool is sad

They need monumental levels of exercise apparently.
They can run for fifty miles a day pulling sleds,a daily walk isn't really cutting it.

shakencat · 22-10-2015 10:33PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Tell that to a child, it is just the measure of those defending dangerous breeds and the restrictions in place to blame a child and say it was his own fault he got savaged and ended up with 40+ stitches

I didn't blame the child. i said id blame myself.

children are oblivious to good/dangerous dogs.
I agree the dog should have been destroyed.

MarkAnthony · 22-10-2015 10:36PM

All dogs are potentially dangerous. Not all dogs have the make up pit bulls and other breeds have.

Personally I've nothing against someone keeping a muzzled pit bull, dangerous breed or even a lion if they so wish but the average dog owner in Ireland is about as responsible and well informed as an 11 year old with fireworks.

MarkAnthony · 22-10-2015 10:36PM

shakencat wrote: »

I didn't blame the child. i said id blame myself.

children are oblivious to good/dangerous dogs.
I agree the dog should have been destroyed.

Lock the dogs up and put the owners down IMO.

Bonedigger · 22-10-2015 10:37PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Tell that to a child, it is just the measure of those defending dangerous breeds and the restrictions in place to blame a child and say it was his own fault he got savaged and ended up with 40+ stitches

Considering there are millions more Labradors than all the dangerous breeds yes it is only common sense that there are more reported biting incidents involving labradors but per head of population there are less incidents with labradors and certainly less deaths or serious injuries.

I think you need to replace "dangerous" with "restricted" to be fair.

Haznat · 22-10-2015 10:44PM

I thought the dogs came accross quite well in that.

To the poster banging on about there being more labs than bull terriers, these are the figures in Australia

"Pure-bred dogs according to the Australian National Kennel Council) were: Labrador Retriever (8.3%), German Shepherd (6.3%), Staffordshire Bull Terrier (5.9%) and Golden Retriever (4.8%) in eighth place is the Rottweilers (2.4%)."

Staffies are a real family dog over there and live completely free of any stigma. Same dogs though.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 22-10-2015 10:55PM

Haznat wrote: »

I thought the dogs came accross quite well in that.

To the poster banging on about there being more labs than bull terriers, these are the figures in Australia

"Pure-bred dogs according to the Australian National Kennel Council) were: Labrador Retriever (8.3%), German Shepherd (6.3%), Staffordshire Bull Terrier (5.9%) and Golden Retriever (4.8%) in eighth place is the Rottweilers (2.4%)."

Staffies are a real family dog over there and live completely free of any stigma. Same dogs though.

Worldwide figures are different though

FCI Worldwide Figures 2013
These statistics were created by combining the registration figures of 25 countries, namely Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Greece, United Kingdom, France, Finland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Norway, New Zealand, Portugal, Slovakia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Taiwan, The Netherlands, Ukraine and U.S.A.

Position Breed Registrations
1 Labrador Retriever 191,988
2 German Shepherd 129,186
3 Poodle (All sizes) 118,653
4 Chihuahua 107,114
5 Golden Retriever 92,994
6 Yorkshire Terrier 92,438
7 Dachshund 81,516
8 Beagle 53,938
9 Boxer 52,983
10 Miniature Schnauzer 45,263
11 Shih Tzu 44,564
12 Bulldog 44,325
13 German Spitz 40,530
14 English Cocker Spaniel 40,174
15 Cavalier King Charles Spaniel 39,670
16 French Bulldog 39,337
17 Pug 33,528
18 Rottweiler 31,447
19 English Setter 29,771
20 Maltese 28,909
21 English Springer Spaniel 28,050
22 German Shorthaired Pointer 23,855
23 Staffordshire Bull Terrier 23,562
24 Border Collie 23,262
25 Shetland Sheepdog 22,805
26 Dobermann 20,941
27 West Highland White Terrier 20,904
28 Bernese Mountain Dog 20,423
29 Great Dane 20,001
30 Brittany Spaniel 19,828

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_dog_breeds#FCI_Worldwide_Figures_2013

Haznat · 22-10-2015 11:01PM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Worldwide figures are different though

FCI Worldwide Figures 2013
These statistics were created by combining the registration figures of 25 countries, namely Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Greece, United Kingdom, France, Finland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Norway, New Zealand, Portugal, Slovakia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Taiwan, The Netherlands, Ukraine and U.S.A.

Position Breed Registrations
1 Labrador Retriever 191,988
2 German Shepherd 129,186
3 Poodle (All sizes) 118,653
4 Chihuahua 107,114
5 Golden Retriever 92,994
6 Yorkshire Terrier 92,438
7 Dachshund 81,516
8 Beagle 53,938
9 Boxer 52,983
10 Miniature Schnauzer 45,263
11 Shih Tzu 44,564
12 Bulldog 44,325
13 German Spitz 40,530
14 English Cocker Spaniel 40,174
15 Cavalier King Charles Spaniel 39,670
16 French Bulldog 39,337
17 Pug 33,528
18 Rottweiler 31,447
19 English Setter 29,771
20 Maltese 28,909
21 English Springer Spaniel 28,050
22 German Shorthaired Pointer 23,855
23 Staffordshire Bull Terrier 23,562
24 Border Collie 23,262
25 Shetland Sheepdog 22,805
26 Dobermann 20,941
27 West Highland White Terrier 20,904
28 Bernese Mountain Dog 20,423
29 Great Dane 20,001
30 Brittany Spaniel 19,828

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_dog_breeds#FCI_Worldwide_Figures_2013

The world is a big place. The point I'm making is that they aren't demonised in every country. It's Daily Mail/Journal hysteria that gives them a bad name over here. Obviously there is a bad element that are breeding them for fighting but they're in the very tiny minority.

DamagedTrax · 22-10-2015 11:13PM

Very proud of all the dogs in the show. Mine was the white stafford at the athletics meeting doing the long jump. She gained her 'Grand Champion' title that day.

I thought the programe showed bull breeds in an honest light and showed the loveable idiots they really are. It also showed the real responsible owners for once.

Also whoever picked the music deserves a pat on the back :cool:

degsie · 22-10-2015 11:15PM

Dogs were generally fine, but some of the owners......

DamagedTrax · 22-10-2015 11:17PM

degsie wrote: »

Dogs were generally fine, but some of the owners......

i know a lot of those owners personally. some of them may be a little rough around the edges but they are not the problem owners with these dogs. They are the most responsible owners you will ever meet. They understand and respect what their dogs can do and take the appropriate steps to not let it happen.

The white staffy 'Ruby' was Laura's first staff. she got out accidentally and acted like any other excitable breed would. I understand people got scared but there was no danger (with that particular dog). And you can be guaranteed they'll never let that mistake happen again.

Ive never seen [the blonde girl] Lilly's dogs out without a lead or muzzles.

Cupcake_Crisis · 23-10-2015 12:04AM

shakencat wrote: »

I didn't blame the child. i said id blame myself.

children are oblivious to good/dangerous dogs.
I agree the dog should have been destroyed.

Disagree completely.

I have 2 dogs, and a 3 year old niece that is completely besotted with dogs because shes grown up with them. We've all drummed it in to her that just because she plays with our dogs does NOT mean she can play with all dogs. We have educated her, and will continue to do so.

If a child goes into an unknown dogs territory in all likelihood the dog will defend it, as is it's instinct. The child is not to blame, the dog is not to blame, the parents are.

foggy_lad · 23-10-2015 12:10AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

Disagree completely.

I have 2 dogs, and a 3 year old niece that is completely besotted with dogs because shes grown up with them. We've all drummed it in to her that just because she plays with our dogs does NOT mean she can play with all dogs. We have educated her, and will continue to do so.

If a child goes into an unknown dogs territory in all likelihood the dog will defend it, as is it's instinct. The child is not to blame, the dog is not to blame, the parents are.

If any dog defends its garden as if it was territory it should never be left unattended in the garden! Dogs should never see a child as a threat under any circumstances and a family pet should not behave like a guard dog!

It is all about the owners of the dog and how they treat and train the dog.

Cupcake_Crisis · 23-10-2015 12:20AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

If any dog defends its garden as if it was territory it should never be left unattended in the garden! Dogs should never see a child as a threat under any circumstances and a family pet should not behave like a guard dog!

It is all about the owners of the dog and how they treat and train the dog.

Dogs are territorial, we all know that, and they also don't differentiate between adult or child. You can't seriously think it's feasible to tell an owner that they can't allow their dog in their gated garden in case a child takes it upon itself to go into the property without permission. I agree that if a dog attacks completely unprovoked that putting it down should be considered, but you can't blame dogs and owners for everything.

DamagedTrax · 23-10-2015 12:24AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

Dogs are territorial, we all know that, and they also don't differentiate between adult or child. You can't seriously think it's feasible to tell an owner that they can't allow their dog in their gated garden in case a child takes it upon itself to go into the property without permission. I agree that if a dog attacks completely unprovoked that putting it down should be considered, but you can't blame dogs and owners for everything.

a prey driven dog will most definitely react to a child before an adult because of movement and size. most of the time they will realise their mistake, the very odd time the drive takes over.

any dog with a prey drive should be kept more secure than a gated garden. an apbt will go over a 10 ft wall. my own stafford has gone over an 8 foot wall to go after a cat.

im not saying it is certain breeds but that owners should recognise certain behaviours within their own dog and take steps to keep their dog and the public safe.

Cupcake_Crisis · 23-10-2015 12:33AM

DamagedTrax wrote: »

a prey driven dog will most definitely react to a child before and adult. most of the time they will realise their mistake, sometimes the drive takes over.

any dog with a prey drive should be kept more secure than a gated garden. an apbt will go over a 10 ft wall. my own stafford has gone over an 8 foot wall to go after a cat.

im not saying certain breeds but owners should recognise certain behaviours within their own dog and take steps to keep their dog and the public safe.

I can honestly say that I've never seen a restricted breed left unsupervised in a garden. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never seen it. People are quick to condemn a dog when almost all of the time it's down to people just not educating themselves or their children

DamagedTrax · 23-10-2015 12:46AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

I can honestly say that I've never seen a restricted breed left unsupervised in a garden. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never seen it. People are quick to condemn a dog when almost all of the time it's down to people just not educating themselves or their children

Its not about just restricted breeds though. Huskies arent restricted and ive seen some with prey drives to match my bitch.

its dog specific and a dog that guards a garden intensely should be behind a large fence or wall, no matter if they are the best trained dog in the world. sometimes the nature comes out and there's little that can be done to stop that in the moment.

By the way, im in no way blaming the dog. The dog does what it does, if the owners recognised the behaviour a dog wouldnt need to be in the position where it is pts. And i agree that kids rarely have a clue how to approach dogs, why animal safety isnt thought in schools from a young age is beyond me? - those weekly religion classes could be put to much better use. But eventually the responsibility has to come back on the dog owner as the primary care giver. Thats just how it has to be.

steddyeddy · 23-10-2015 12:59AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

Disagree completely.

I have 2 dogs, and a 3 year old niece that is completely besotted with dogs because shes grown up with them. We've all drummed it in to her that just because she plays with our dogs does NOT mean she can play with all dogs. We have educated her, and will continue to do so.

If a child goes into an unknown dogs territory in all likelihood the dog will defend it, as is it's instinct. The child is not to blame, the dog is not to blame, the parents are.

There seems to be a trend towards blaming parents for a child's interaction with a dog. Not necessarily the case you describe but I was out with my niece in a park and a staffie came up to her and although playful it nearly knocked her down. She was terrified of the thing (they're quite unnecessarily muscular for a small dog) and hit out at its nose out of fright. It didn't look happy and growled at her until its owners (a nice couple) came back.

They said "the child shouldn't have got nervous" as Ted's lovely. The child couldn't help getting nervous ffs as she's still a child and reacts on instinct. Some people think the world should love dogs the way they do. Also I don't think anyone should have a dog that sees its garden as territory. I posted in the pets forum about two labs that ran out of a garden and bit a friend of mine recently.

dreamers75 · 23-10-2015 01:01AM

I dislike dogs (actually all pets) but we have 2 dogs we got from the pound, 1 is a complete asshole dog i mean seriously asshole dog. The other the old one I have grown to love because he is a god damn killing machine, he has a KDR of 17-0 which include 7 birds (no ****ing clue how ) and 10 cats. He will destroy any animal who enters his back garden. Gotta respect that, cant be let out the front sadly and is too strong for the kids to walk anywhere he attacks basically any animal that moves.

But asshole dog is a fcuking asshole, only new and really pisses off older dog by trying to claim the back garden.

Older dog is a some sort of terrier russell hybrid, younger asshole dog is off unknown origin.

To summarise some dogs are arseholes and all the training in the world wont stop them being assholes (have paid for dog training lol for both) up to the owners to control them.

DamagedTrax · 23-10-2015 01:05AM

dreamers75 wrote: »

I dislike dogs (actually all pets) but we have 2 dogs we got from the pound, 1 is a complete asshole dog i mean seriously asshole dog. The other the old one I have grown to love because he is a god damn killing machine, he has a KDR of 17-0 which include 7 birds (no ****ing clue how ) and 10 cats. He will destroy any animal who enters his back garden. Gotta respect that, cant be let out the front sadly and is too strong for the kids to walk anywhere he attacks basically any animal that moves.

But asshole dog is a fcuking asshole, only new and really pisses off older dog by trying to claim the back garden.

Older dog is a some sort of terrier russell hybrid, younger asshole dog is off unknown origin.

To summarise some dogs are arseholes and all the training in the world wont stop them being assholes (have paid for dog training lol for both) up to the owners to control them.

im guessing asshole dog aint the only asshole in that household.

steddyeddy · 23-10-2015 01:05AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

Dogs are territorial, we all know that, and they also don't differentiate between adult or child. You can't seriously think it's feasible to tell an owner that they can't allow their dog in their gated garden in case a child takes it upon itself to go into the property without permission. I agree that if a dog attacks completely unprovoked that putting it down should be considered, but you can't blame dogs and owners for everything.

There have been cases where dogs have ran out and attacked children. There is absolutely no reason to own a dog which attacks a kids by default when it enters a garden.

DamagedTrax · 23-10-2015 01:07AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

There seems to be a trend towards blaming parents for a child's interaction with a dog. Not necessarily the case you describe but I was out with my niece in a park and a staffie came up to her and although playful it nearly knocked her down. She was terrified of the thing (they're quite unnecessarily muscular for a small dog) and hit out at its nose out of fright. It didn't look happy and growled at her until its owners (a nice couple) came back.

They said "the child shouldn't have got nervous" as Ted's lovely. The child couldn't help getting nervous ffs as she's still a child and reacts on instinct. Some people think the world should love dogs the way they do. Also I don't think anyone should have a dog that sees its garden as territory. I posted in the pets forum about two labs that ran out of a garden and bit a friend of mine recently.

quite right the child got terrified. the owners should not let that happen, any stranger introductions should be on lead.

on the part i bolded. they are necessarily muscly for being worked (athletics, weight pulling). unfortunately not enough of them go beyond couch potato.

Cupcake_Crisis · 23-10-2015 01:14AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

There seems to be a trend towards blaming parents for a child's interaction with a dog. Not necessarily the case you describe but I was out with my niece in a park and a staffie came up to her and although playful it nearly knocked her down. She was terrified of the thing (they're quite unnecessarily muscular for a small dog) and hit out at its nose out of fright. It didn't look happy and growled at her until its owners (a nice couple) came back.

They said "the child shouldn't have got nervous" as Ted's lovely. The child couldn't help getting nervous ffs as she's still a child and reacts on instinct. Some people think the world should love dogs the way they do. Also I don't think anyone should have a dog that sees its garden as territory. I posted in the pets forum about two labs that ran out of a garden and bit a friend of mine recently.

That's a completely different situation though, the dog was unleashed in a public area and approached your niece, of course she'd have been wary! That was totally irresponsible of the owners imo, even though staffies are a gorgeous dog they can be intimidating looking. Ted may have been lovely, but your niece didn't know that.

wexford awake · 23-10-2015 01:24AM

I think the programme exposed the unfair laws surrounding restricted breeds, and overall it was exceptionally delivered. well done RTE. However one criticism I would have is that they should have gone out more out of Dublin to the rural counties to visit the owners of restricted breeds. Lets face it, people watching the programme tonight would look down on the people with strong Dublin accents and associate the bull breeds with certain types of people. Didn't like the way the German Shepherd was portrayed by the lad in Blessington, but I think the German Shepherd being captured in Clare showed a better picture of the breed. They are a fab breed and they would be the first breed I would have kids around. they make great Family pets. i have a scar down my face because when I was 8, i went over to the couch and petted my jack russell BITCH, she jumped up off the couch and bit my face. i know the saying is there for a reason (let sleeping dogs lie) but i was a kid. i know for a fact that if that jack russell was my beloved GSD , i could have jumped on to of him and pulled his ears tail etc, and he would never have done what that terrier did. i bet that goes for all the restricted breeds that were highlighted tonight. The fact that I am required to muzzle my GSD makes me sick, when Huskies can roam free with out no muzzles. They are a breed that I can't warm to, but hey I could be totally wrong.
The laws are pathetic surrounding Restricted breeds. the incident with the staffie running out on the road along with the other dog and nearly got put down. That dog did nothing any other dog wouldnt do when meeting and greeting other dogs. if that was ANY OTHER NON RESTRICTED BREED, then nothing would ever have happened. Shame on the Dog Warden involved in that case, he should be FIRED.

KungPao · 23-10-2015 01:30AM

I think the problem is people trying to 'humanise' their pets. I'm not a dog owner...I have tortoises. I am a member of a busy tortoise group on Facebook and the amount of people who think that Rex and Terry the tortoise are best friends is scary. Dogs and torts don't mix. Full stop. Not a slight on dogs - I love dogs, but they are animals - and tbh, humans do unexpected things too, all the time. Rex will see a tortoise and just chew the poor thing. Maybe not today, but it's highly likely he will at some stage. I don't blame doggie - I blame the human.

I don't get this "my dog/cat/whatever wouldn't do *that*" stuff. You don't know what they'll do or are capable of.

People that trust dogs (or many other animals) with kids (or other smaller pets) are asking for trouble.

wexford awake · 23-10-2015 01:32AM

KungPao wrote: »

I think the problem is people trying to 'humanise' their pets. I'm not a dog owner...I have tortoises. I am a member of a busy tortoise group on Facebook and the amount of people who think that Rex and Terry the tortoise are best friends is scary. Dogs and torts don't mix. Full stop. Not a slight on dogs - I love dogs, but they are animals - and tbh, humans do unexpected things too, all the time. Rex will see a tortoise and just chew the poor thing. Maybe not today, but it's highly likely he will at some stage. I don't blame doggie - I blame the human.

I don't get this "my dog/cat/whatever wouldn't do *that*" stuff. You don't know what they'll do or are capable of.

People that trust dogs (or many other animals) with kids (or other smaller pets) are asking for trouble.

Maybe you should get a muzzle for your torts:D

KungPao · 23-10-2015 01:38AM

wexford awake wrote: »

Maybe you should get a muzzle for your torts:D

My big fella is a destroyer. Bugger bites hard!

KungPao · 23-10-2015 01:50AM

This thread just reminded me of this RTE ad from the 80s:

Go to 20 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BTCY5xhrIY

Poor sheepies.

seamus · 23-10-2015 09:55AM

KungPao wrote: »

I don't get this "my dog/cat/whatever wouldn't do *that*" stuff. You don't know what they'll do or are capable of.

People that trust dogs (or many other animals) with kids (or other smaller pets) are asking for trouble.

Pretty much. It's even the same with children. Leave two kids alone in a room and eventually one of them will hurt the other one and cause it to cry. And sometimes blood will be drawn.

And we accept this as normal, it's what kids do.

But then we leave animals together or alone with children and are surprised when someone gets injured. Only difference is that animals don't know how to slap or push, they have teeth and claws.

More people are killed by cattle - bulls in particular - in Ireland than by all other animals combined, yet there's never any programmes or massive headline stories about it, or people saying that all farm animals should be banned.

arayess · 23-10-2015 10:51AM

degsie wrote: »

Dogs were generally fine, but some of the owners......

i hate this attitude , i see dog owners on facebook saying it's how you treat the dog and not the breed causes aggressive dogs.
While this is true , some breeds are naturally aggressive and have massive amount of strength and power.
Some dog owner need a kick in the b0llocks.

Pitbull - Reality bites... RTE 2

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