Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

loyatemu wrote: »

can't find any pictures of that, but as a tourist amenity cycling alongside a main road (even if it is a bypassed section) is not as attractive as through quieter countryside (alongside a busy railway isn't a great option either TBH).

Agree. Not attractive at all. One of the few regional roads in the Country that is 100kmph road. It's busy as well; all the Artic trucks use it to avoid the toll in Cappataggle.

savagethegoat wrote: »

I'm not so sure the old N6 argument can be dismissed so lightly...have a look at the cycleway alongside the Clonmel bypass as an example of how to do it. (never seen a bike on it though)

The same arguments over and over again, I think aside from your point of never having seen a bike on the clonmel bypass you will begin to see why the old N6 argument falls down time and again:

http://www.failteireland.ie/FailteIreland/media/WebsiteStructure/Documents/3_Research_Insights/1_Sectoral_SurveysReports/CyclingStrategy2007.pdf?ext=.pdf
Once again we have to refer to old ground in terms of this debate, and go back to a report by Failte Ireland in 2007. Go to the link above and read the first page bullet points:

Cycling on Irish roads is not perceived to be safe – cyclists face dangerous bends, fast cars, intimidating HGVs, more traffic and higher speeds;

There are very few, if any, traffic-free routes to cater for touring cyclists wanting to leave the cities to discover the countryside or for families who wish to participate in cycling;

Go to page 26

There is a strong need to create some world-class traffic-free routes to cater particularly for those touring cyclists leaving the cities to discover the countryside. Currently, they are required to use busy R and Nroads for, perhaps 5-10km, where vehicular speeds are high and conditions for cycling are very poor.

And ....

Cyclists, particularly less experienced and young cyclists, like to be away from traffic whenever possible as this enables them to enjoy the sounds and sights of the countryside without the noise and other distraction of cycling in traffic. Greenways are always shared with pedestrians and sometimes with horses. Disused railway lines are plentiful in Ireland and these can provide excellent greenways. Also riverside paths and canal towpaths can provide excellent recreational facility. Strategic greenways will become tourist attractions in their own rights, as is the case throughout Europe.

Go to page 28:

Generally due to high traffic levels and high speeds we wish to avoid cycling on N or R-roads. On unavoidable sections, it may be desirable to provide wide, well-surfaced, hard shoulders – these can provide a safe, wide, corridor for cyclists out of the path of faster moving vehicles. However, noise levels and the nearby presence of heavy goods vehicles can be such that the route will not feel safe and peaceful.

The same arguments over and over again, at what point will some people grasp it.

eastwest wrote: »

I believe that the councillors in Roscommon and Galway who have blathered on about the N6 option genuinely have no idea of the kind of infrastructure that attracts visitors and locals alike, or if they do, they are just being mischievous in promoting the N6 option.

They certainly have not read what visitors told them in the report I referred to a couple of posts back again some quotes from the first page of that report

Cycle tourism is in decline in Ireland. In 2000 the number of overseas participants in cycling stood at 130,000. By 2004 this number had dropped to 85,000 and by 2005 it had fallen by a further 25,000.

Satisfaction with the quality of the product is also being eroded with the percentage of very satisfied holiday makers falling from 76% in 2000 to 50% in 2005 and unsatisfied customers rising from 2% to 9% over the same period.

Two pages later the results of the Mori survey which:

This two-stage project involved 13 in-depth interviews with cycling tour operators and 6 in-depth interviews with journalists in key markets. A second stage of research involved a quantitative survey of some 764 Irish and overseas holidaymakers. Fieldwork took place between the 14th of July and the 11th of September 2005. Key recommendations included;

Two key bullet points from the survey as things that need to be done:

Develop a designated cycling network around the country.
o Design the routes around particular themes, like the Wine Tour in France.

Oh and by the way....... Have look at how much the declining number of tourists are spending:

Despite the decline, overseas visitors who cycled while in Ireland contributed an estimated 34.5 million Euro to the economy in 2005.

How many times does the bleeding obvious have to be spelt out?

As Fritz might be saying "yes my dear we are going to cycle along the jolly old historic N6 hard shoulder now a fully designated cycle lane due to some fine paintwork by Roscommon and Galway County councils, we will witness many fine jugernauts at close quarters in fact so close we will travel in fear of our lives, we will witness many young irish mothers in their family cars that resemble ze military vehicles driving their overweight irish children to ze GAA cul camp each morning, this will be a true experience of the irish craic as they call it, we will need to pack the bright yellow vests so they know we are there enjoying ourselves and so they can see us in our very own irish greenway." "It will be so much fun my fraulein".....

savagethegoat wrote: »

Once again, you need to look at the Clonmel path I am referring to before rubbishing my view. It is totally separate from the road by some metres and were this the case parallel to the N6 , it could be that it was quite acceptable. The point being that it is not "beside" the road, it is merely parallel to it.

I am amazed you cyclists don't know about it....or maybe you do and it doesn't suit your agenda to acknowledge it may be possible to run a cycleway in this fashion.

Streetview is very out of date but you can see the works to the right of this pic before the actual tarmac was laid.

STG in truth we know exactly the kind of path you are talking about, and actually they are a very good idea, but they are not a destination tourist attraction, The Dublin- Galway Greenway is being built and marketed from day one as a destination tourist attraction. The cycle from Dublin to Mullingar along the grand (or is it union I can't remember) canal banks will be a pleasant traffic free experience, from Mullingar to Athlone along the closed railway route the same, then the peace and tranquility will stop. The kind of greenway/cycleway you are talking about is the kind of infrastructure that should be standard along ring roads, roads near large towns and in urban areas. It is in Germany, Netherlands etc. It is not a tourist destination. Admittedly at times some of our national cycle network will have to be on this kind of parallel to busy roads type situation, but it should be for very limited stretches, not a proposal for the whole of Galway.

On this thread, which in case anyone has forgotten in the past few days is called Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections) it is the Tourist Destination Greenway many of us are proposing, because of all the long standing arguments about the railway not going to be built. The greenway you refer to on the Clonmel bypass is a very good, for the people of clonmel, but it is not ever going to be a touris destination, the idea of putting a greenway parallel with the old N6 and trying to sell it as a tourist destination greenway will be a disappointing fudge, not only for national tourism but also for the West of Ireland, parallel to the existing railway from say Ballinasloe would be a hugely more attractive option. People want to pootle along these cycleways in peace and quiet, one train an hour is not going to be a problem, traffic on the old N6 even if you are well segregated from it will not be a great tourist experience. Having said that - it would be great for the locals living along the road as a local amenity. Do you understand the point we are trying to get across to you? Your view is not being rubbished, so on my part please accept my apology if that is what you think, I just believe we are taking it from different angles.

Think about what is trying to be achieved with the Dublin-Galway Greenway as a tourist proposal and as myself and others have pointed out do you really think cycling beside a busy N road for 20 or 30 miles past ribbon development is going to be a pleasant and attractive experience, do you think the clonmel by-pass can attract tourists. No is the answer, however this kind of safe cycling route could be of enormous benefit to local people, but the long distance routes need to be far from the madding crowd.

savagethegoat wrote: »

I understand it fully,but you ruin your point when you tilt the truth, surely you can see that? You and others are deliberately giving the impression that the cycleroute will be ON the N6, one poster even went as far as to call it a Motorway. Stick to facts. A cycleway parallel to the old N6 in parts would not necessarily be as bad as you and others like to claim. It is possible and should not be dismissed in such a hysterical way.

Look STG we can agree to differ on this idea, but did you not read what I said

Admittedly at times some of our national cycle network will have to be on this kind of parallel to busy roads type situation, but it should be for very limited stretches, not a proposal for the whole of Galway.

Peace and Tranquility is what people want on these long distance paths - they will accept the odd stretch that is on a segregated safe cycle path on a main road I am sure, but don't want it to be whole days cycling, and from what I can see from the proponents of the next to the old N6 argument it will amount to what 20 miles or so, that would not be a tourist attraction.

savagethegoat wrote: »

I understand it fully,but you ruin your point when you tilt the truth, surely you can see that? You and others are deliberately giving the impression that the cycleroute will be ON the N6, one poster even went as far as to call it a Motorway. Stick to facts. A cycleway parallel to the old N6 in parts would not necessarily be as bad as you and others like to claim. It is possible and should not be dismissed in such a hysterical way.

There's nothing hysterical about stating the obvious; the attraction of all the great trails worldwide is not just that they are traffic free, but that they are away from the noise and fumes of traffic.
As somebody else pointed out, this kind of infrastructure is great for commuting and general day to day getting around in safety, but it can only ever form a very limited part of a trail that will attract big leisure-cycling and walking numbers and keep them coming back.
In any case, there's no need to consider the N6; Senator Higgins' proposal to route the main greenway route along the rail line from Athlone to Athenry is a sound idea, and some of it can possibly be diverted through state-owned bogs and Coillte woodlands on the way -- the reference in the media was to 'state-owned lands', not specifically to railways. However the important precedent can be set for Ireland of using waste land along rail corridors for the common good -- something that works very well elsewhere and that has only been dome in very limited instances in Ireland. It's progress.

I don't think in general live railway lines are suitable for cycle paths. You have in many cases , restricted clearances , pitch points and obstructions. The use of abandoned lines is a different story. ( truely abandoned lines though , ie where track has been lifted )

There are also issues in Athlone where the proposed cycle way bridge may interfere with existing boat traffic on the Shannon by restricting headroom. I know the local boating groups are lodging objections

BoatMad wrote: »

I don't think in general live railway lines are suitable for cycle paths. You have in many cases , restricted clearances , pitch points and obstructions. The use of abandoned lines is a different story. ( truely abandoned lines though , ie where track has been lifted )

There are also issues in Athlone where the proposed cycle way bridge may interfere with existing boat traffic on the Shannon by restricting headroom. I know the local boating groups are lodging objections

None of the issues you raise are insurmountable to overcome. I am surprised they haven't considered a canter-levered pedestrian/cycling bridge on the existing and iconic railway bridge over the shannon, I am sure it could be done, I would completely agree that any bridge over the shannon must not interfere with the very lucrative and socially important boating trade.

Re cycle paths/greenways whatever we call them parallel to live railways I refer to previous photos posted.