Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

eastwest

savagethegoat wrote: »

The West Clare is becoming a Greenway too? Hope someone told Jackie Whelan.

As I remember, it was voted on in the council recently and it's going ahead.
If there was a Dublin Galway and an enniskillen Clare cycleway, we could start to compete in a real way for this business. 'The great Irish bike ride', anyone?

elastico

savagethegoat wrote: »

The West Clare is becoming a Greenway too? Hope someone told Jackie Whelan.

The cycleway would be fine alongside his railway. Not sure if the west clare is anything more than a pipedream though.

A lot of it is built over but who knows?

eastwest

elastico wrote: »

The cycleway would be fine alongside his railway. Not sure if the west clare is anything more than a pipedream though.

A lot of it is built over but who knows?

I'll look it up later, but I'm pretty sure the council has a scheme.

Muckyboots

savagethegoat wrote: »

The West Clare is becoming a Greenway too? Hope someone told Jackie Whelan.

westclarerailway.ie
His websites's latest news was posted in Jan 2013. The best chance he/they have of anybody coming to view his collection of engines is to open up the disused line as a Greenway.
Same applies to the Ballyglunin restored station house ( as a community centre ) and the committee there have acknowledged this. Lots of potential for heritage projects on the line once the concept of Trail as a means of alignment protection is finally accepted.

schemingbohemia

galwaycyclist wrote: »

For balance we should point out that the Galway Cycling Campaign - who are fully behind the idea of cross country cycling routes - also called for the plug to be pulled on the project as unworkable in the format that was put forward.

http://www.galwaycycling.org/cycling-campaign-say-old-n6-not-suitable-location-for-international-greenway/

It was doomed to failure from the moment it was given to roads engineers to deliver.

They don't seem to have published their alternate suggestion yet, any idea of it's status?

galwaycyclist

schemingbohemia wrote: »

They don't seem to have published their alternate suggestion yet, any idea of it's status?

Thats a fair point - part of the problem is that a) they are all volunteers and b) some of the source material is not available in English.

So a week or two maybe.

Edit: I should also point out that in the meantime a lot of work was going into a prebudget submission.

http://www.galwaycycling.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/GCC_PreBudget2016_Submission_Discussion_Paper_Parking_Levy.pdf

This is relevant to Western Rail Corridor in that it discusses the problems created for cycling in Towns like Tuam by other policies. No point delivering cyclists to towns if those towns are then hostile and unwelcoming places for people with bicycles.

eastwest

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Thats a fair point - part of the problem is that a) they are all volunteers and b) some of the source material is not available in English.

So a week or two maybe.

Edit: I should also point out that in the meantime a lot of work was going into a prebudget submission.

http://www.galwaycycling.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/GCC_PreBudget2016_Submission_Discussion_Paper_Parking_Levy.pdf

This is relevant to Western Rail Corridor in that it discusses the problems created for cycling in Towns like Tuam by other policies. No point delivering cyclists to towns if those towns are then hostile and unwelcoming places for people with bicycles.

You have to start somewhere though, and the 'low-hanging fruit of the old rail alignment is the best use of public funds to provide decent cycling routes. The towns would fall in fairly quickly behind that.

westtip

elastico wrote: »

The cycleway would be fine alongside his railway. Not sure if the west clare is anything more than a pipedream though.

A lot of it is built over but who knows?

I can think of another pipedream - any offers of reading my mind.:D

Muckyboots

Big clean up of the disused WRC in around Tuam. JCB's, tractors and bush cutters involved. Welcomed for town aesthetic reasons. It makes walking on the old tracks much easier and more people seem to be taking to the trail, even in the rain. Does anyone know how much money, loss making, Irish Rail spend on maintaining old disused lines?

BoatMad

eastwest wrote: »

You have to start somewhere though, and the 'low-hanging fruit of the old rail alignment is the best use of public funds to provide decent cycling routes. The towns would fall in fairly quickly behind that.

ah yes , resistance is futile , you will be assimilated to the cycling hive mind

end of the road

Muckyboots wrote: »

Does anyone know how much money, loss making, Irish Rail spend on maintaining old disused lines?

for the most part, nothing as far as i know. rosslare waterford is a bit different as there is an agreement in place for maintenence until 2020. it would only get the bare basic i suspect, its effectively an engineers siding with a 15 mph limit (or is it 25) i forget. an inspection car and weedsprayer once a year until 2020, probably the odd replaced sleeper maybe. can't imagine it costs very much

BoatMad

end of the road wrote: »

for the most part, nothing as far as i know. rosslare waterford is a bit different as there is an agreement in place for maintenence until 2020. it would only get the bare basic i suspect, its effectively an engineers siding with a 15 mph limit (or is it 25) i forget. an inspection car and weedsprayer once a year until 2020, probably the odd replaced sleeper maybe. can't imagine it costs very much

downgraded to 15 mph, the recent empty RPSI train could hardly be pulled up the gradients .

eastwest

BoatMad wrote: »

ah yes , resistance is futile , you will be assimilated to the cycling hive mind

Not necessarily, there is a great alternative that has served politicians well on this route -- let it rot!

Carawaystick

A little bit of vision could see a direct link to Dungarvan from the ferry.
Some imagination to get to Youghal, and old rail line to Middleton, some imagination into Cork and out the old line to Bandon/kinsale and the WAW

savagethegoat

Carawaystick wrote: »

A little bit of vision could see a direct link to Dungarvan from the ferry.
Some imagination to get to Youghal, and old rail line to Middleton, some imagination into Cork and out the old line to Bandon/kinsale and the WAW

some imagination!

Muckyboots

end of the road wrote: »

for the most part, nothing as far as i know. rosslare waterford is a bit different as there is an agreement in place for maintenence until 2020. it would only get the bare basic i suspect, its effectively an engineers siding with a 15 mph limit (or is it 25) i forget. an inspection car and weedsprayer once a year until 2020, probably the odd replaced sleeper maybe. can't imagine it costs very much

Having walked the old WRC extensively, I would suggest that Irish Rail give the driver of the inspection car a head cam, upload the video onto Youtube under "Extreme Train Journeys"
(even at 15 mph) and watch the money flow in from from youtube subscribers.

eastwest

Muckyboots wrote: »

Having walked the old WRC extensively, I would suggest that Irish Rail give the driver of the inspection car a head cam, upload the video onto Youtube under "Extreme Train Journeys"
(even at 15 mph) and watch the money flow in from from youtube subscribers.

The chances of an inspection car running north of claremorris are slim, given the big break in the tracks near kiltimagh and the very solid fencing that crosses the route in several places. The earth bank in bellaghy alone would take a lot of moving.
The best way to inspect this effectively abandoned track now would be with a drone, I'm afraid.

BoatMad

Carawaystick wrote: »

A little bit of vision could see a direct link to Dungarvan from the ferry.
Some imagination to get to Youghal, and old rail line to Middleton, some imagination into Cork and out the old line to Bandon/kinsale and the WAW

Imagination , yes , reality no, rail connected passangers at Roselare have dwindled to minuscule amounts. In fact ferries themselves see no revenue in foot passangers.

There is no doubt that a direct link Waterford -cork should have originally been built, the one to mallow was built for various reasons.

But today , it would be impossible to justify such a proposal, even when n a subsidised basis.

galwaycyclist

BoatMad wrote: »

Imagination , yes , reality no, rail connected passangers at Roselare have dwindled to minuscule amounts. In fact ferries themselves see no revenue in foot passangers.

There is no doubt that a direct link Waterford -cork should have originally been built, the one to mallow was built for various reasons.

But today , it would be impossible to justify such a proposal, even when n a subsidised basis.

Hmm I read that as an imagined walking and cycling link not as an imagined rail link.

There might be a need for state intervention to preserve the foot passenger option for ferries. Some no longer permit it.

eastwest

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Hmm I read that as an imagined walking and cycling link not as an imagined rail link.

There might be a need for state intervention to preserve the foot passenger option for ferries. Some no longer permit it.

A walking and cycling link to rosslare is a distinct probability; some of it is already either done or being done. A good stretch of trail there would attract continental cyclists/foot passengers, a business that the ferries would find attractive.
It will all fall into place eventually, same as the rest of the world, as long as we don't see the emergence of 'a bunch of railway anoraks styling themselves as South on track'. Then we'll get briars.

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

as long as we don't see the emergence of 'a bunch of railway anoraks styling themselves as South on track'.(/quote)

oh i would absolutely support a southeast on track, to stand up for the rosslare dublin and waterford dublin lines. and to possibly restore the link between south wexford and waterford but from wexford instead of rosslare eventually. but they must stand up for the main lines, not simply focus on a restoration of the waterford link. of course i can't see any of that happening. but a group to act in the interests of the main lines to dublin is definitely needed, especially in the case of rosslare dublin. because irish rail certainly couldn't care a less. but thats really something for another thread.

the best bet would be to continue from the new-ross greenway if it gets built and head to rosslare from there, it would potentially take in more places and more people. wouldn't have a clue which would be the best route but certainly linking up would be a better option then 2 separate cycle ways to waterford.

BoatMad

eastwest wrote: »

A walking and cycling link to rosslare is a distinct probability; some of it is already either done or being done. A good stretch of trail there would attract continental cyclists/foot passengers, a business that the ferries would find attractive.
It will all fall into place eventually, same as the rest of the world, as long as we don't see the emergence of 'a bunch of railway anoraks styling themselves as South on track'. Then we'll get briars.

No that line is actually a strategic link, one of the last cross country lines left, linking the east coast with the west as far as ballina

The barrow bridge would never be justified for a cycle track and the idea that it would will result in its loss.

BoatMad

end of the road wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

as long as we don't see the emergence of 'a bunch of railway anoraks styling themselves as South on track'.(/quote)

oh i would absolutely support a southeast on track, to stand up for the rosslare dublin and waterford dublin lines. and to possibly restore the link between south wexford and waterford but from wexford instead of rosslare eventually. but they must stand up for the main lines, not simply focus on a restoration of the waterford link. of course i can't see any of that happening. but a group to act in the interests of the main lines to dublin is definitely needed, especially in the case of rosslare dublin. because irish rail certainly couldn't care a less. but thats really something for another thread.

the best bet would be to continue from the new-ross greenway if it gets built and head to rosslare from there, it would potentially take in more places and more people. wouldn't have a clue which would be the best route but certainly linking up would be a better option then 2 separate cycle ways to waterford.

I agree, The waterford to south wexford is actually a strategic cross country link, allowing rail access from the east coast via the south midlands all the way to the west ( especially since Ennis-Athenry opened )

There is a good justification to keep it operable on strategic grounds, as there is to restore Athenry to claremorris , but not further north i.e. The burma road .

we cannot watch IR dismantle the whole network , piece by piece, Waterford Limerick has been destroyed by deliberate mis-timetabling, incredible high fares and lack of Sunday services,

If you dont run any trains with times that travellers want, them no ones uses it and it gets closed , a self fulling prophecy

The alternative that is the WRC shows that if you lower fares , and increase timetabling, people will use the service, even if its at a subsidy to the public purse

we cannot allow the railway network in ireland to be seen as a potential cycleway, that would be a travesty. Cycleways should be justified on their own merits and routes and not simply as a rail land grab

Muckyboots

BoatMad wrote: »

end of the road wrote: »

Cycleways should be justified on their own merits and routes

And rail too.

BoatMad

Muckyboots wrote: »

BoatMad wrote: »

And rail too.

I agree, but the criteria are entirely different.

loyatemu

BoatMad wrote: »

No that line is actually a strategic link, one of the last cross country lines left, linking the east coast with the west as far as ballina

Athlone-Mullingar was a strategic link as well. I can't see the South Wexford line ever reopening, it connects a small city with a medium sized town through very sparsely populated countryside. It only stayed open as long as it did because of sugar beet traffic.

end of the road

loyatemu wrote: »

Athlone-Mullingar was a strategic link as well. I can't see the South Wexford line ever reopening, it connects a small city with a medium sized town through very sparsely populated countryside. It only stayed open as long as it did because of sugar beet traffic.

the line stayed open 4 years after the beat traffic ended. the reason the line stayed open is simply IE couldn't get away with closing it until 2010. there is actually a good amount of traffic going between wexford and waterford. not enough to spend billions on motor ways, but certainly for a decent small scale commuter service. your right though, its unlikely to reopen, and public transport has been killed around the area anyway. the line still must be kept from the cycling lobby either way.

schemingbohemia

end of the road wrote: »

the line stayed open 4 years after the beat traffic ended. the reason the line stayed open is simply IE couldn't get away with closing it until 2010. there is actually a good amount of traffic going between wexford and waterford. not enough to spend billions on motor ways, but certainly for a decent small scale commuter service. your right though, its unlikely to reopen, and public transport has been killed around the area anyway. the line still must be kept from the cycling lobby either way.

By cycling lobby - you mean people who might actually use the route, bringing money and jobs to the area like they have in Westport/Newport/Mulranny and Achill?

loyatemu

end of the road wrote: »

your right though, its unlikely to reopen, and public transport has been killed around the area anyway. the line still must be kept from the cycling lobby either way.

why?

if it's unlikely to reopen why not make some use of it.

westtip

loyatemu wrote: »

why?

if it's unlikely to reopen why not make some use of it.

Spite, probably sums it up in one word, but calling those who argue for greenways to protect old railway routes as the cycling lobby is not strictly true.

They are the tourist industry lobby. This is why major hotels in the west of Ireland, including the Chairmen of the Irish Hotel Federations county branches in Mayo, Sligo, Galway, Leitrim, endorsed the pre-budget submission on the Western Rail Trail Campaign.

They are the anti-emigration lobby, creating jobs for people who then don't have to leave the country.

Could the railway at all costs lobbyist please tell us how many jobs have been created as a result of the Ennis-Athenry line?