Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Residents object to temporary halting site

1…1213151718…45

Comments

  • #422
    keano_afc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,713 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Am I to take from that statement that the travellers were to blame for the fire themselves?

    That was the impression I got.


  • #423
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Am I to take from that statement that the travellers were to blame for the fire themselves?
    Why would that be so shocking? I wager a majority of home fires are caused through occupant action or inaction - falling asleep while smoking, overloading a power point, etc. - regardless of whether they're Travellers or not.


  • #424
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,701 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    If your house burned down all you would get from the state would be a bill for the fire brigade call out


    Dublin co co dose 't charge for house fires


  • #425
    HIB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭HIB


    kstand wrote: »
    No one has mastered the art of sanctimony quite like Una Mullalley.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/una-mullally-nimbyism-is-the-national-sport-of-south-dublin-1.2396172

    I'm sure she'll be offering to let them set up camp in her backyard so.


  • #426
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Why would that be so shocking? I wager a majority of home fires are caused through occupant action or inaction - falling asleep while smoking, overloading a power point, etc. - regardless of whether they're Travellers or not.

    I'm not shocked. I would be shocked if they didn't contribute to the fire considering the lifestyles that most of them have.


  • Advertisement
  • #427
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Tigger wrote: »
    Dublin co co dose 't charge for house fires

    Dublin County Council ceased to exist in 1994.


  • #428
    irishpancake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭irishpancake


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    Except house value has nothing to do with proximity to bankers. Literally the most fallacious argument on the thread and this is saying something.

    And why not both? If it goes down in value against the market there's obviously something wrong with it, meaning it's not as suitable to raising a family in as it was when you bought it. A valid concern.

    House values went down without anything being wrong with them at all, except the inurptial inflated bubble valuations.

    The fact remains, these people who are lauded by Irish Society, especially the Petit Bourgeoise like those residents, would happily live side by side with those who ensured their property values fell by 50%+ over the past few years, yet they can wail about valuation drops due to an Emergency Accommodation facility for a recently bereaved family of Travellers.

    That's total hypocrisy.


  • #429
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    irishpancake wrote: »
    House values went down without anything being wrong with them at all, except the inurptial inflated bubble valuations.

    The fact remains, these people who are lauded by Irish Society, especially the Petit Bourgeoise like those residents, would happily live side by side with those who ensured their property values fell by 50%+ over the past few years, yet they can wail about valuation drops due to an Emergency Accommodation facility for a recently bereaved family of Travellers.

    That's total hypocrisy.

    Ah but it's not just about property value, that is a consideration.

    If this situation was foisted on me and my family my first concern would be on the quality of our lives, the security of our home and environment given the anti-social behaviour that the residents have been witness to from the abandoned halting site of this tragedy in the past.


  • #430
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Threw in the usual Dub bashing with it. Then again she's a nuclear powered numpty from way back. I love this "liberal" double-talk; Perhaps, if there is a perception that crime and dubious social behaviours are disproportionate within the Travelling community, we should ask why that is, and see what can be done, if that is indeed the case and not just the perception.

    Yea, I hate to break it to in your ivory tower of childish liberalism love, but it is indeed the case statistically and not just the perception.
    Those residents and the rest of us just want to cop ourselves on and get out to Carrickmines and help the Council build some new houses and a few paddocks for the dogs and ponies for this unfortunate family, Otherwise we are just bigots racists etc etc

    Has this woman offered to put a traveller family up in her own house to ease their suffering?
    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Would the council go to such measures if my house burned down? Do they do that for other non-traveller tenants?
    They would tell you to sling your hook and laugh you out the door with a leaflet about homeless services!
    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    If your house burned down all you would get from the state would be a bill for the fire brigade call out
    And a summons/order to tidy up the site or face compulsory purchase and further bills from the council for doing the clean-up.
    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Honest question:

    Why don't they just removed the destroyed/damaged units and replace them with new on the existing site? Why does the entire lot need to be moved?
    Traveller tradition is when a person dies they move on because they feel the place is somehow cursed?

    If your house was burnt out you would be expected to rebuild with the insurance and either move back even if your whole family had died in the fire.


  • #431
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    irishpancake wrote: »
    House values went down without anything being wrong with them at all, except the inurptial inflated bubble valuations.

    The fact remains, these people who are lauded by Irish Society, especially the Petit Bourgeoise like those residents, would happily live side by side with those who ensured their property values fell by 50%+ over the past few years, yet they can wail about valuation drops due to an Emergency Accommodation facility for a recently bereaved family of Travellers.

    That's total hypocrisy.

    Do you live near a halting site? I'm guessing not.

    I've plenty of experience of halting sites near my area and all of them are something that you wouldn't want near you.

    Antisocial would be an understatement.


  • Advertisement
  • #432
    street_marker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3 ✭street_marker


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Thing is, and it's already been mooted here, were it a settled family nothing would be provided, even if family members had died in the fire. So it's good enough for a settled family, but Travellers get special treatment... how come?

    travelers are part of the " offically vulnerable " community according to the progressive liberals who classify demographics with the regard the social hierarchy

    the tax payer is seen as a priveleged demographic by these same people , hence the opposition amongst irish times articles and vincent browne to the recent budget which favoured middle ireland


    on another note , one thing i cant get my head around , if we as a population as so inherently racist , how come a political party with a racist agenda ( like the BNP or national front ) has not been successfully set up already , ireland must be fertile hunting ground for a racist party if these accusations by various liberals have any credibility

    ?


  • #433
    street_marker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3 ✭street_marker


    keano_afc wrote: »
    I dont think we'll ever have that information released into the public domain. I was talking to someone who lives just off the Glenamuck road and and lets just say it wouldnt help the outpouring of sympathy towards the Traveller families.

    illegally hooked up to an electricity source


  • #434
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    street_marker wrote: »
    illegally hooked up to an electricity source


    Surely travellers wouldn't break the law by stealing electricity. :eek:



    I'm shocked.


  • #435
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    Glenamuck residents explain objections to halting site

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/glenamuck-residents-explain-objections-to-halting-site-1.2396691

    Their opposition to the council’s move is not motivated by anti-Traveller prejudice, they insist, but by a belief that Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council is making a decision in haste which might have long-term consequences.

    “I’m not anti-Traveller,” says resident Hugh O’Sullivan. “Many of us were emotionally touched by the fire and left flowers at the scene. We were in the process of commencing a fundraiser on the Sunday in response to the tragedy.
    The events have railroaded all of those plans.”

    The way Mr O’Sullivan and most of the residents see it, the council acted in haste and selected the Rockville Drive site because it is council-owned, zoned for social housing and, most importantly, is within 10 minutes’ walking distance of the now gutted halting site where the fire took place.

    “We’re not confident that they properly considered the sites available to them,” he says. “Since then the media focus has been so intense they have not been in a position to look at the options and consider what is available.

    “This is, to all intents and purposes, a housing estate. The decision by the council to locate a halting site in the midst of a housing estate is an unprecedented decision nationwide.”

    But is this not an unprecedented situation? “Exactly, all the more reason to make the decision in the cool light of day.”

    Another resident, Brian Farrelly, said they did not object to Travellers living locally, but specifically to them living on the site selected.

    “The process for establishing a halting site locally is contained within the local area plan. We contributed to that process and supported the proposed location of a halting site on the Glenamuck Road (a different site from the one now being considered). We have no issue in working through a proper process for the future.”

    The road is relatively narrow. Cars are parked half on the pavement. Locals say that if Rockville Drive was a new estate, it would be declared illegal because there is not enough space for emergency vehicles such as fire engines or ambulances to pass safely.

    “I find it hard to see on a balanced criteria basis how this site makes a lot of sense,” Mr Farrelly says. “The only sense it would appear to make is that it is in the area.”


  • #436
    brooke 2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    I have half a mind to go through this thread and multi-quote every single post which is generalising all travellers based on the actions of some, but I'm pretty sure I'd break the character limit for a single post.

    I knew anti-traveller bullsh!t was deeply ingrained in Irish society but's it's quite alarming to have an actual example of just how bad it really is. F*ckin' hell, lads.

    While you're at it, count how many people like me have contributed - I had pretty neutral feelings about Travellers until I had dealings with them in a professional capacity. I still have a lot of
    sympathy for some of the women in their community who suffer in so many ways at the hands of their men, who frequently are thugs and bullies. There are lovely gentle people among them but they are in the minority and suffer greatly at the hands of the thuggish majority. That is the unfortunate truth, as I have seen with my own eyes.


  • #437
    irishpancake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭irishpancake


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Isn't it great that a group of residents have come together to protect their community from a group of people who who have no respect for the law and their fellow man. I applaud the residents of Rockville for taking a stand and most of the country stands with them.

    You do know the group you say the residents are "taking a stand against" are the survivors of an appalling inferno/tragedy, just over 1 week ago, wgere they lost 10 of their family members, which is 40% of their entire group.

    These people will bury their dead tomorrow, and I'm sure they are in shock and distraught, not to mention their own physical injuries.

    Some of them are children.

    Even the residents say they have no issue with these people, in their statement.

    They objected to the LA's sleight of hand with no local consultations.

    You are the one who has no respect for your fellow man, abd the residents are actually breaking the law.

    At some point in the future these residents will look back in shame at their role in this appalling display of bigotry towards people who could not be more vulnerable.

    Their children and grandchildren will ask what their part was in thus debacle, abd they will be ashamed to admit to it.....

    it has happened in South Africa and Southern States of the US.

    People are ashamed of their roles in the Racism of the past, particularly young people, who cannot understand the naked hatred of their parents generation.

    So no, it's not great, and it marks a watershed, which the Government will use to radically change the laws surrounding hate speech, and the casual racism which persists in Irish Society, any Government, because all parties agree something must be done.

    These residents have accelerated that process.


  • #438
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    Bebopclown wrote: »
    2 posts, can we believe him?

    IMO it doesn't matter that much whether we can or not.

    The thread that was closed http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057506161 stated 'Keep any speculation you have about the cause of the fire to yourself' and I hope that the same is true here.


  • #439
    Bebopclown
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 137 ✭✭Bebopclown


    brooke 2 wrote: »
    While you're at it, count how many people like me have contributed - I had pretty neutral feelings about Travellers until I had dealings with them in a professional capacity. I still have a lot of
    sympathy for some of the women in their community who suffer in so many ways at the hands of their men, who frequently are thugs and bullies. There are lovely gentle people among them but they are in the minority and suffer greatly at the hands of the thuggish majority. That is the unfortunate truth, as I have seen with my own eyes.

    This is me exactly. I remember when the Padrick Nelly thing happened I felt bad for the victim and thought he'd gone too far. Then after working in a store for years where I was constantly harassed and threatened by this family (mainly this family, also other traveller family's) I changed my tune very quickly. There is only so much someone can take of this ****. I can fully understand why he did it. It's constant abuse and no one will do anything about it. If you try to talk about it you get labelled a racist. Even online it happened, I tried to reach out on message forums for any kind of advice or help but just got labelled a racist and threads got locked or deleted. I. Surprised this thread has lasted this long.


  • #440
    brooke 2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I can see both sides to this to be honest, I think you'd have to have a very narrow minded blinkered view of the world not to.

    Of course what happened in the Carrickmines halting site was awful but let's be honest here.... can anyone honestly say they'd want a halting site set up in their area if there was history of trouble with the local traveler community?

    I don't know...it's a tough one to call.

    Not that tough, really!


  • #441
    irishpancake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭irishpancake


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Am I to take from that statement that the travellers were to blame for the fire themselves?

    Am I to take it from your statement that these people set out to burn 10 of their number to death?

    Why apportion blame here, before the investigations have even got to report stage?

    There were lots of contradicting, victim blaming statements at the time of the Stardust tragedy....

    also bthe Hillsborough Stadium disaster, even politicians got in on the game of blame the victims.

    Why do you need to know?

    Of course, by listening to, believing and disseminating gossip, some would like to have this blame game here, even before the bereaved are buried.


  • Advertisement
  • #442
    Thinkingaboutit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    The residents certainly know the site won't be there for six months. Six years will be likely if they are stupid enough to agree. Between their bedraggled pre-maturely aged women who beg from door to door to the threatening traveller man with no insurance on his van (had that experience recently), I really only want them far away. All those protestor types supporting them should ask their parents if they would accommodate them.


  • #443
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    irishpancake wrote: »
    Am I to take it from your statement that these people set out to burn 10 of their numdpber to death?

    No, I don't think that they set out to burn 10 of their number to death. I don't know the cause of the fire but if the cause of fire was through some illegal activity such as stealing electricity, I don't see why we should be bending over backwards to accommodate them. I certainly don't see why a community should be forced to accept having a halting site forced on them.

    The same effort isn't made when members of the settled community have housefires.
    Why apportion blame here, before the investigations have even got to report stage?

    I'm not apportioning blame, I'm asking questions. And to be honest, it's my belief that due to political correctness, if the travellers caused the fire through illegal activities, then the report wouldn't be made public.


  • #444
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    Thinkingaboutit wrote: »
    The residents certainly know the site won't be there for six months. Six years will be likely if they are stupid enough to agree.


    Out of interest, what do you think will happen to the new permanent homes that work has already begun on?


  • #445
    Arytonblue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 108 ✭✭Arytonblue


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Just imagine living beside an Irish family:
    1: They seem to be able to make noise anywhere they go. "Story bud", "What's the craic with ya" "Dafuq are you looking at". Shouting roaring.
    2:They sleep all day and they drink all night, yet they claim that they are not wasting their time.
    3: They spill out of houses at all hours of the morning coked off their heads and vomiting / pissing in the street.
    4: They inject themselves with heroin and then wander around all day like zombie, accosting passers-by and threatening them with syringe-stabbage if they don't hand over cash.
    5: Their relations and friends are probably worse than they are and might as well shoot up on the street outside and piss against your car while they visit.
    6: They see everything. <-- not sure what to do with this one, dafuq are you even getting at here...?
    7:If you had cattle in your house they would be easier to manage.

    See what I've done there? I've taken a bunch of different Irish stereotypes and thrown them all together in a list of reasons to be racist against Irish people. Doesn't look so good, does it? Want me to do the same with black stereotypes next? Or how about a bit of anti-semitism? I know, I'll do a list of reasons why living next to a woman would be appalling, that'll go down well :rolleyes:

    I've said this several times already but I'll say it again: I'm honestly shocked at how normalised this f*cking abhorrent bigotry is as soon as travellers are involved. Replace travellers with any other demographic and you'd be ashamed of yourself for posting it. You are all following the same very basic assumption which lies at the heart of all of this broken logic, and that is "I've heard of travellers who are criminal scum, therefore every single traveller family and every single halting site is full of criminal scum". It's absolutely ridiculous and the fact that people here don't see how stupid they're being coming out with this utter sh!te is frightening.

    First they came for.....
    Have to say you seem to be trying to push a really bizarre narrative of the actions by these residents into a racism/xenophobia thing which is just not true. Travellers in Ireland have an incredibly negative reputation among many people, most of which have had first hand experience with this particular group. And we're not talking about a race or ethnicity of millions of people, we're talking about a very select group who have chosen to live a so called 'nomadic' life, constantly undermining planning laws, health and safety regulations, environmental and traffic laws, with a recognized connection to organised crime. Education, healthcare and living standards within this group, particularly children, are dangerously low. If any type of small group of this nature attempted to move into a peaceful estate/village the reaction of most ordinary people would be the same as the residents, and it would have fúck all to do with them being travellers/black/Irish/English/Arab/French/Klingon/Jedi, it would be about the generally scummy and anti social behavior of said group.

    Are there mostly ordinary traveller folk just trying to get by with no intention of being an affront to others? Of course, at least I would certainly like to believe that. But it also has to be said that people can hardly be blamed for having such negative connotations of a group who continue to set up shop illegally anywhere they please, terrorize communities, essentially taking over entire plots of lands, again illegally, often leaving sites in ruin, intimidating locals, undermining authorities and breaking dozens of laws. All of this while their well funded lobby groups continue to plea for ethnic minority status and equal treatment, demanding the government fund and provide sites and services, with the majority of them not employed to boot. I'd consider myself a left of centre person and I greatly sympathized with those that lost loved ones in that fire, but christ the nauseating stuff coming out of the likes of the Irish Times etc. is really pissing me off at this stage.

    I hope the residents know that most people are behind them and I hope the Council actually does their fúcking job and settles this for both parties in the fairest manner.


  • #446
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Is there anybody on this thread who wouldn't mind a halting site right next door to their house?


  • #447
    RollieFingers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭RollieFingers


    An article in the Irish Times today mentioning the "casual and acute racism perpetrated against travellers...."

    Is it not impossible to be racist against a traveller? Sure you can be discriminatory towards them, but when did travellers become a race of people?

    Also fully support the residents, wouldn't want them living anywhere near me either, and all the wailing hearts on here giving out, would you be happy for them to set up camp next door to you? I doubt it somehow!


  • #448
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,349 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Is there anybody on this thread who wouldn't mind a halting site right next door to their house?

    Several apparently :rolleyes::rolleyes: not to mention mullaly and other bleeding heart woe is everyone types in the media, yet havent seen any offers to actually do anything about it except the bad mouthing of the residents by them


  • #449
    kstand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭kstand


    RollieFingers wrote: »
    An article in the Irish Times today mentioning the "casual and acute racism perpetrated against travellers...."

    Is it not impossible to be racist against a traveller? Sure you can be discriminatory towards them, but when did travellers become a race of people?

    Also fully support the residents, wouldn't want them living anywhere near me either, and all the wailing hearts on here giving out, would you be happy for them to set up camp next door to you? I doubt it somehow!

    "The appalling bigotry" etc etc. The fact is that the settled society through taxes etc has given a huge amount to the travelling community. How many houses were built for them only for those houses to be gutted and in many cases deliberately burned down? How many housing estates have they been given houses in where there has been a huge rise in anti-social behavior afterwards? People can and will only give so much - so many people up and down the country have had so many bad experiences, yet our liberal left-wing sanctimonious mouthpieces are only too quick to jump in and berate anyone who doesnt fall in with their blinkered, simplistic and downright childish line of thinking.


  • #450
    kstand
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭kstand


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Several apparently :rolleyes::rolleyes: not to mention mullaly and other bleeding heart woe is everyone types in the media, yet havent seen any offers to actually do anything about it except the bad mouthing of the residents by them

    Which is absolutely typical of the bleeding heart liberal brigade - they love shouting "bigot" and "racist" etc when they perceive any slight at all, or ranting about human rights etc - yet they NEVER have any solution to the problems and in fact their presence in the debates actually makes things a lot worse, because all it does is to create a sense of victim-hood.


  • Advertisement
  • #451
    irishpancake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭irishpancake


    gandalf wrote: »
    Ah but it's not just about property value, that is a consideration.

    If this situation was foisted on me and my family my first concern would be on the quality of our lives, the security of our home and environment given the anti-social behaviour that the residents have been witness to from the abandoned halting site of this tragedy in the past.

    Abandoned halting site?

    Surely you mean the site destroyed by an inferno just over a week ago?

    Anti social behaviour is alleged by some residents, who are protesters, so they would allege such stuff to bolster their case.

    I'm not saying there was none, I'm saying they produced no evidence, apart from their own statements. No prosecution records against named person's living, or indeed now dead, were produced.

    The Council undoubtedly miscalculated the level of sympathy, which was expressed by these residents, and acted as if there would be a welcome from those sympathisers for the Temporasry solution proposed, with a definite finish date, to which they committed.

    Of course, the LA are within their legal rights to invoke the Emergency powers they have, as this was and is an Emerrgency.

    The residents, on the other hand, are the ones breaking the law.

    Let's hope there is a resolution soon, with funerals being held tomorrow.

    No one wins from this.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement