Standards of CVs and Cover Letters

zoobizoo · 15-10-2015 01:51PM #1

I put a job ad up for customer service / admin role a week ago.

Was really surprised at the poor level of spelling & grammar of a fair few of the applicants.

Some CVs were six pages long, others were really badly designed or laid out.... others were not tailored for the job being advertised.

Some didn't bother with cover letters. Many who did just wrote rambling messages rather than an actual "To whom it may....... '

If you're not having success with job applications, then pass your CV and cover letter onto someone who you feel will give you an honest appraisal of it - that could be a teacher in your old school, the career service of your university.

It can be worth paying a professional service to get a decent template for both CV and cover letters.

glued · 15-10-2015 04:51PM

You'll always get a few CV's from people just going through the motions of applying without giving it any real thought.

From my own experience advertisements with no salary disclosure get poor candidates and deservedly so.

Does your ad disclose salary? If you're getting a poor range of candidates applying and you have disclosed the salary then perhaps it's below market value.

I wouldn't even bother looking at an job offer that doesn't disclose salary or is below market value.

daheff · 15-10-2015 05:14PM

to be honest with you, when I got to hire people I generally dont bother reading cover letters. I have a specific skillset for a role defined and look to get a person who is a reasonable fit. (For me)the defining part of the hiring is how the person behaves/comes across in the interview. I get an idea if this person will fit the role, and crucially, if they will fit in with the team.

I do agree that the standard of CVs is appallling in some cases and excellent in others. It really annoys me that we might (potentially) pay a recruitment agent good money to hire somebody and they havent even talked with candidates about keeping cvs to 2/3 pages and highlight relevant experience.

zoobizoo · 15-10-2015 05:21PM

Fair enough comment about salary - it wasn't included in the ad.

Canadel · 15-10-2015 06:55PM

zoobizoo wrote: »

Fair enough comment about salary - it wasn't included in the ad.

Why leave out the most important part of the job for most potential applicants? Perhaps by showing some respect for the job and those applying, they will return the favour and put more thought and time into their applications and cover letters.

extra gravy · 15-10-2015 07:05PM

Came across one recently where the applicant listed not having any addictions as one of her attributes :pac:

Danielle D · 15-10-2015 07:41PM

zoobizoo wrote:

I put a job ad up for customer service / admin role a week ago.

Can I ask where the job is based as I know two very experienced Administrators who were recently made redundant and are trying to find work.

Atlantic Dawn · 15-10-2015 08:22PM

I actually would not apply to any job looking for a cover letter.

Canadel · 15-10-2015 09:05PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I actually would not apply to any job looking for a cover letter.

Why would you choose to disqualify yourself from most jobs?

highlydebased · 15-10-2015 09:57PM

The ones that contain junior cert results, nationality, martial status and date of birth must be the worst!

Hollister11 · 15-10-2015 11:49PM

highlydebased wrote: »

The ones that contain junior cert results, nationality, martial status and date of birth must be the worst!

I have seen a foreign national lost his montesorry and primary school under eduction.

Sprog 4 · 16-10-2015 12:02AM

highlydebased wrote: »

The ones that contain junior cert results, nationality, martial status and date of birth must be the worst!

I'm a black belt in karate. No way am I leaving that off the CV.

Masala · 16-10-2015 12:09AM

Had a CV recently handed in by the lads mother... And him standing behind her like a bold child.

Went straight in bin when I read "leaving cert results: On Request". Further down..."references: On Request"

As if I was going to waste my time finding that out.....

FloatingVoter · 16-10-2015 12:34AM

Masala wrote: »

Had a CV recently handed in by the lads mother... And him standing behind her like a bold child.

Went straight in bin when I read "leaving cert results: On Request". Further down..."references: On Request"

As if I was going to waste my time finding that out.....

So the job as Governor of the Central Bank went to a better candidate. Proper order.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 16-10-2015 11:52AM

Masala wrote: »

Had a CV recently handed in by the lads mother... And him standing behind her like a bold child.

Went straight in bin when I read "leaving cert results: On Request". Further down..."references: On Request"

As if I was going to waste my time finding that out.....

References I could understand, I add "on request" to my CV for references too. I don't want them cluttering up the CV and wouldn't want over zealous recruiters etc. contacting them until I have a chance to touch base with them first, out of courtesy. Some recruiters could use the contact details as a point of contact into a company so I wouldn't want to p*ss off my referees with crappy calls. If a company is genuinely interested I offer the details by all means.

Leaving results out however seems a small bit ridiculous, even if it sounds like it just a summer/part-time job for him.

Masala · 16-10-2015 02:11PM

Maia Putrid Grater wrote: »

References I could understand, I add "on request" to my CV for references too. I don't want them cluttering up the CV and wouldn't want over zealous recruiters etc. contacting them until I have a chance to touch base with them first, out of courtesy. Some recruiters could use the contact details as a point of contact into a company so I wouldn't want to p*ss off my referees with crappy calls. If a company is genuinely interested I offer the details by all means.

Leaving results out however seems a small bit ridiculous, even if it sounds like it just a summer/part-time job for him.

This lad was looking for Summer work.. about 19yrs old. Hope this is not what they are being thought in their last year of 3rd level on creating your CV. And as for reference .... I can see where you are coming from with your own position (which I agree with)....but surely his Principal in School, or last years Summer Job is all that is needed.

For a while ... I though he must have worked for as a Secret Agent or something.

bucketybuck · 16-10-2015 02:22PM

I would always leave references off the CV as well.

The references get checked at the end of the process, when you have already assessed the candidate and are now considering whether or not to hire. The cv is the start of the process and should include information that gets you to interview, thats rarely the case with references.

The only exception is if the reference is somebody that you know the interviewer also knows, and so you want the interviewer to pick up the phone and ring your mutual friend. But thats the exception rather than the rule.

Even on this very thread you have people complaining about 4/5 page long CV's and yes that is a mistake. But to have a clear, uncluttered 2 page CV you need to prioritise information, and as part of that I don't think its a bad decision to cut references down to "on request". If you get interviewed and they like you it will be the easiest thing in the world to then ask for the references.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 16-10-2015 03:11PM

Masala wrote: »

This lad was looking for Summer work.. about 19yrs old. Hope this is not what they are being thought in their last year of 3rd level on creating your CV. And as for reference .... I can see where you are coming from with your own position (which I agree with)....but surely his Principal in School, or last years Summer Job is all that is needed.

For a while ... I though he must have worked for as a Secret Agent or something.

Yeah in that particular case I really don't see why he would leave them out, they would just be character references really and no recruiters involved of course.

phunks · 17-10-2015 09:12AM

As a recent graduate I have cut mine down to one page. Do you think this is a good idea or am I selling myself short? I'm basically leaving out any summer jobs bar my internship and BS skills like team work etc.

Right Turn Clyde · 17-10-2015 12:25PM

phunks wrote: »

As a recent graduate I have cut mine down to one page. Do you think this is a good idea or am I selling myself short? I'm basically leaving out any summer jobs bar my internship and BS skills like team work etc.

Two pages is standard for a CV. One page sounds more like a resumé, which isn't the norm in this part of the world. I think you're running the risk of selling yourself short.

Team-work and that type of 'BS' is very important whether you like it or not. However, a different strategy would be to avoid using buzz words like responsibility and team-work, while making sure to illustrate those ideas in your achievements and career history. Let your relevant experience do the talking.

phunks · 17-10-2015 02:39PM

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

Two pages is standard for a CV. One page sounds more like a resumé, which isn't the norm in this part of the world. I think you're running the risk of selling yourself short.

Team-work and that type of 'BS' is very important whether you like it or not. However, a different strategy would be to avoid using buzz words like responsibility and team-work, while making sure to illustrate those ideas in your achievements and career history. Let your relevant experience do the talking.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah BS was a bit strong. My degree is computer science so for skills have it narrowed down to bullet points of about 12 languages/frameworks I know rather than the things listed above.

I have more detailed desciptions of work I've done in my internship and two main projects I have completed in college.

My headings are:
Basic information
Education
Work experience
Skills
Projects and experience

Does this seem reasonable or should I include something else to bulk it up a little?

Right Turn Clyde · 17-10-2015 06:48PM

phunks wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Yeah BS was a bit strong. My degree is computer science so for skills have it narrowed down to bullet points of about 12 languages/frameworks I know rather than the things listed above.

I have more detailed desciptions of work I've done in my internship and two main projects I have completed in college.

My headings are:
Basic information
Education
Work experience
Skills
Projects and experience

Does this seem reasonable or should I include something else to bulk it up a little?

Those headings are absolutely fine. I'd just be worried that you're not making the most of each category. If you're still young and haven't that much 'real world' experience then that's fair enough. But try to make the most of what experience you do have.

You might not think your summer jobs are relevant. But you'd be surprised. Separate the actual work you did on those jobs (which may be irrelevant) from what you learned on those jobs (which will almost certainly be relevant to some extent).

Summer jobs are all about earning a quick buck, so recruiters won't mind that you worked at three different jobs over three different summers, especially if it was during your degree. What matters is that you were working and that you were a good worker. So don't miss an opportunity to provide that information.

Also, as a graduate you could really sell yourself on your projects, especially as yours is a technical degree. You obviously worked quite hard to graduate from computer science. I suspect you're selling those efforts short with just a one page CV.

Back yourself in life. That's my simple advice.

TG1 · 17-10-2015 09:10PM

I've had some awful attempts at CVs land on my desk... Spelling mistakes, grammar mistakes, dates of employment crossing each other etc. I even had one that explained why they left each position, including one firing and one "unsolvable dispute with management".
The one bit of advice I give is numbers... If you've worked in retail I assume you can sell a product, but if you increased sales in your department by 15% I'll be impressed... Include as many metrics and measurables as you can because these are what will make a CV stand out.

Nforce · 17-10-2015 09:29PM

TG1 wrote: »

I've had some awful attempts at CVs land on my desk... Spelling mistakes, grammar mistakes, dates of employment crossing each other etc. I even had one that explained why they left each position, including one firing and one "unsolvable dispute with management".
The one bit of advice I give is numbers... If you've worked in retail I assume you can sell a product, but if you increased sales in your department by 15% I'll be impressed... Include as many metrics and measurables as you can because these are what will make a CV stand out.

Had a guy call in to me last year with a CV, 2 crumpled up A4 pages, and asked if I wouldn't mind photocopying them for myself and giving him back the originals!

davo10 · 18-10-2015 08:20AM

I have two businesses, to work in one of those you need a third level degree, the other one you don't. Let me tell you, the cvs I get from the graduates are equally bad if not worse than the ones I receive from applicants with no third level education.

To be honest though, I am delighted with that as it is a good way of filtering the applicants. I think if an applicant cannot get a cv right considering how important it is and how much time in advance they had to do it, they do not deserve to be considered for the job, the cvs go in the bin.

A few years ago I would have wanted accompanying references but now I appreciate the merits of "available on request". I don't put a salary figure on the ad because I do not want good applicants to be put off by a particular figure, I want them to apply and if they are really good, I want to be able to offer them more to entice them to work for me.

Queenalocin · 18-10-2015 08:36AM

I think it is important to tailor the CV to the job you are applying for. So many people use the exact same CV for everything which is a pity because the a change of emphasis within contents can really change how they are perceived.

Mc Love · 19-10-2015 03:29PM

We should all start going the way of the Human workplace (google them) - they dont deal in CV's or Cover letters, but deal with pain letters and human voiced resumes. Unfortunately this part of the world doesnt think too highly of this method and would rather follow the dumb HR process that treats most people like sheep.

thegreatgonzo · 19-10-2015 05:24PM

I'm almost 3 minutes into that irritating video and she hasn't started explaining what a human voiced resume is so no I think I prefer the traditional CV thanks.

Mc Love · 19-10-2015 11:18PM

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

I'm almost 3 minutes into that irritating video and she hasn't started explaining what a human voiced resume is so no I think I prefer the traditional CV thanks.

It's definitely the way forward for HR. If only it got some motion here it would revolutionise the way we go job hunting.

bucketybuck · 20-10-2015 08:03AM

Mc Love wrote: »

(google them)

I really wish I hadn't bothered.

callaway92 · 20-10-2015 11:42AM

highlydebased wrote: »

The ones that contain junior cert results, nationality, martial status and date of birth must be the worst!

Standards of CVs and Cover Letters

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