Standards of CVs and Cover Letters

zoobizoo

I put a job ad up for customer service / admin role a week ago.

Was really surprised at the poor level of spelling & grammar of a fair few of the applicants.

Some CVs were six pages long, others were really badly designed or laid out.... others were not tailored for the job being advertised.

Some didn't bother with cover letters. Many who did just wrote rambling messages rather than an actual "To whom it may....... '

If you're not having success with job applications, then pass your CV and cover letter onto someone who you feel will give you an honest appraisal of it - that could be a teacher in your old school, the career service of your university.

It can be worth paying a professional service to get a decent template for both CV and cover letters.

glued

You'll always get a few CV's from people just going through the motions of applying without giving it any real thought.

From my own experience advertisements with no salary disclosure get poor candidates and deservedly so.

Does your ad disclose salary? If you're getting a poor range of candidates applying and you have disclosed the salary then perhaps it's below market value.

I wouldn't even bother looking at an job offer that doesn't disclose salary or is below market value.

daheff

to be honest with you, when I got to hire people I generally dont bother reading cover letters. I have a specific skillset for a role defined and look to get a person who is a reasonable fit. (For me)the defining part of the hiring is how the person behaves/comes across in the interview. I get an idea if this person will fit the role, and crucially, if they will fit in with the team.


I do agree that the standard of CVs is appallling in some cases and excellent in others. It really annoys me that we might (potentially) pay a recruitment agent good money to hire somebody and they havent even talked with candidates about keeping cvs to 2/3 pages and highlight relevant experience.

zoobizoo

Fair enough comment about salary - it wasn't included in the ad.

Canadel

zoobizoo wrote: »

Fair enough comment about salary - it wasn't included in the ad.

Why leave out the most important part of the job for most potential applicants? Perhaps by showing some respect for the job and those applying, they will return the favour and put more thought and time into their applications and cover letters.

extra gravy

Came across one recently where the applicant listed not having any addictions as one of her attributes :pac:

Danielle D

zoobizoo wrote:

I put a job ad up for customer service / admin role a week ago.

Can I ask where the job is based as I know two very experienced Administrators who were recently made redundant and are trying to find work.

Atlantic Dawn

I actually would not apply to any job looking for a cover letter.

Canadel

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I actually would not apply to any job looking for a cover letter.

Why would you choose to disqualify yourself from most jobs?

highlydebased

The ones that contain junior cert results, nationality, martial status and date of birth must be the worst!

Hollister11

highlydebased wrote: »

The ones that contain junior cert results, nationality, martial status and date of birth must be the worst!

I have seen a foreign national lost his montesorry and primary school under eduction.

Sprog 4

highlydebased wrote: »

The ones that contain junior cert results, nationality, martial status and date of birth must be the worst!

I'm a black belt in karate. No way am I leaving that off the CV.

Masala

Had a CV recently handed in by the lads mother... And him standing behind her like a bold child.

Went straight in bin when I read "leaving cert results: On Request". Further down..."references: On Request"

As if I was going to waste my time finding that out.....

FloatingVoter

Masala wrote: »

Had a CV recently handed in by the lads mother... And him standing behind her like a bold child.

Went straight in bin when I read "leaving cert results: On Request". Further down..."references: On Request"

As if I was going to waste my time finding that out.....

So the job as Governor of the Central Bank went to a better candidate. Proper order.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Masala wrote: »

Had a CV recently handed in by the lads mother... And him standing behind her like a bold child.

Went straight in bin when I read "leaving cert results: On Request". Further down..."references: On Request"

As if I was going to waste my time finding that out.....

References I could understand, I add "on request" to my CV for references too. I don't want them cluttering up the CV and wouldn't want over zealous recruiters etc. contacting them until I have a chance to touch base with them first, out of courtesy. Some recruiters could use the contact details as a point of contact into a company so I wouldn't want to p*ss off my referees with crappy calls. If a company is genuinely interested I offer the details by all means.

Leaving results out however seems a small bit ridiculous, even if it sounds like it just a summer/part-time job for him.

Masala

Maia Putrid Grater wrote: »

References I could understand, I add "on request" to my CV for references too. I don't want them cluttering up the CV and wouldn't want over zealous recruiters etc. contacting them until I have a chance to touch base with them first, out of courtesy. Some recruiters could use the contact details as a point of contact into a company so I wouldn't want to p*ss off my referees with crappy calls. If a company is genuinely interested I offer the details by all means.

Leaving results out however seems a small bit ridiculous, even if it sounds like it just a summer/part-time job for him.

This lad was looking for Summer work.. about 19yrs old. Hope this is not what they are being thought in their last year of 3rd level on creating your CV. And as for reference .... I can see where you are coming from with your own position (which I agree with)....but surely his Principal in School, or last years Summer Job is all that is needed.

For a while ... I though he must have worked for as a Secret Agent or something.

bucketybuck

I would always leave references off the CV as well.

The references get checked at the end of the process, when you have already assessed the candidate and are now considering whether or not to hire. The cv is the start of the process and should include information that gets you to interview, thats rarely the case with references.

The only exception is if the reference is somebody that you know the interviewer also knows, and so you want the interviewer to pick up the phone and ring your mutual friend. But thats the exception rather than the rule.

Even on this very thread you have people complaining about 4/5 page long CV's and yes that is a mistake. But to have a clear, uncluttered 2 page CV you need to prioritise information, and as part of that I don't think its a bad decision to cut references down to "on request". If you get interviewed and they like you it will be the easiest thing in the world to then ask for the references.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Masala wrote: »

This lad was looking for Summer work.. about 19yrs old. Hope this is not what they are being thought in their last year of 3rd level on creating your CV. And as for reference .... I can see where you are coming from with your own position (which I agree with)....but surely his Principal in School, or last years Summer Job is all that is needed.

For a while ... I though he must have worked for as a Secret Agent or something.

Yeah in that particular case I really don't see why he would leave them out, they would just be character references really and no recruiters involved of course.

phunks

As a recent graduate I have cut mine down to one page. Do you think this is a good idea or am I selling myself short? I'm basically leaving out any summer jobs bar my internship and BS skills like team work etc.

Right Turn Clyde

phunks wrote: »

As a recent graduate I have cut mine down to one page. Do you think this is a good idea or am I selling myself short? I'm basically leaving out any summer jobs bar my internship and BS skills like team work etc.

Two pages is standard for a CV. One page sounds more like a resumé, which isn't the norm in this part of the world. I think you're running the risk of selling yourself short.

Team-work and that type of 'BS' is very important whether you like it or not. However, a different strategy would be to avoid using buzz words like responsibility and team-work, while making sure to illustrate those ideas in your achievements and career history. Let your relevant experience do the talking.

phunks

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

Two pages is standard for a CV. One page sounds more like a resumé, which isn't the norm in this part of the world. I think you're running the risk of selling yourself short.

Team-work and that type of 'BS' is very important whether you like it or not. However, a different strategy would be to avoid using buzz words like responsibility and team-work, while making sure to illustrate those ideas in your achievements and career history. Let your relevant experience do the talking.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah BS was a bit strong. My degree is computer science so for skills have it narrowed down to bullet points of about 12 languages/frameworks I know rather than the things listed above.

I have more detailed desciptions of work I've done in my internship and two main projects I have completed in college.

My headings are:
Basic information
Education
Work experience
Skills
Projects and experience

Does this seem reasonable or should I include something else to bulk it up a little?

Right Turn Clyde

phunks wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Yeah BS was a bit strong. My degree is computer science so for skills have it narrowed down to bullet points of about 12 languages/frameworks I know rather than the things listed above.

I have more detailed desciptions of work I've done in my internship and two main projects I have completed in college.

My headings are:
Basic information
Education
Work experience
Skills
Projects and experience

Does this seem reasonable or should I include something else to bulk it up a little?

Those headings are absolutely fine. I'd just be worried that you're not making the most of each category. If you're still young and haven't that much 'real world' experience then that's fair enough. But try to make the most of what experience you do have.

You might not think your summer jobs are relevant. But you'd be surprised. Separate the actual work you did on those jobs (which may be irrelevant) from what you learned on those jobs (which will almost certainly be relevant to some extent).

Summer jobs are all about earning a quick buck, so recruiters won't mind that you worked at three different jobs over three different summers, especially if it was during your degree. What matters is that you were working and that you were a good worker. So don't miss an opportunity to provide that information.

Also, as a graduate you could really sell yourself on your projects, especially as yours is a technical degree. You obviously worked quite hard to graduate from computer science. I suspect you're selling those efforts short with just a one page CV.

Back yourself in life. That's my simple advice.

TG1

I've had some awful attempts at CVs land on my desk... Spelling mistakes, grammar mistakes, dates of employment crossing each other etc. I even had one that explained why they left each position, including one firing and one "unsolvable dispute with management".
The one bit of advice I give is numbers... If you've worked in retail I assume you can sell a product, but if you increased sales in your department by 15% I'll be impressed... Include as many metrics and measurables as you can because these are what will make a CV stand out.

Nforce

TG1 wrote: »

I've had some awful attempts at CVs land on my desk... Spelling mistakes, grammar mistakes, dates of employment crossing each other etc. I even had one that explained why they left each position, including one firing and one "unsolvable dispute with management".
The one bit of advice I give is numbers... If you've worked in retail I assume you can sell a product, but if you increased sales in your department by 15% I'll be impressed... Include as many metrics and measurables as you can because these are what will make a CV stand out.

Had a guy call in to me last year with a CV, 2 crumpled up A4 pages, and asked if I wouldn't mind photocopying them for myself and giving him back the originals!

davo10

I have two businesses, to work in one of those you need a third level degree, the other one you don't. Let me tell you, the cvs I get from the graduates are equally bad if not worse than the ones I receive from applicants with no third level education.

To be honest though, I am delighted with that as it is a good way of filtering the applicants. I think if an applicant cannot get a cv right considering how important it is and how much time in advance they had to do it, they do not deserve to be considered for the job, the cvs go in the bin.

A few years ago I would have wanted accompanying references but now I appreciate the merits of "available on request". I don't put a salary figure on the ad because I do not want good applicants to be put off by a particular figure, I want them to apply and if they are really good, I want to be able to offer them more to entice them to work for me.

Queenalocin

I think it is important to tailor the CV to the job you are applying for. So many people use the exact same CV for everything which is a pity because the a change of emphasis within contents can really change how they are perceived.

Mc Love

We should all start going the way of the Human workplace (google them) - they dont deal in CV's or Cover letters, but deal with pain letters and human voiced resumes. Unfortunately this part of the world doesnt think too highly of this method and would rather follow the dumb HR process that treats most people like sheep.

thegreatgonzo

I'm almost 3 minutes into that irritating video and she hasn't started explaining what a human voiced resume is so no I think I prefer the traditional CV thanks.

Mc Love

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

I'm almost 3 minutes into that irritating video and she hasn't started explaining what a human voiced resume is so no I think I prefer the traditional CV thanks.

It's definitely the way forward for HR. If only it got some motion here it would revolutionise the way we go job hunting.

bucketybuck

Mc Love wrote: »

(google them)

I really wish I hadn't bothered.

callaway92

highlydebased wrote: »

The ones that contain junior cert results, nationality, martial status and date of birth must be the worst!

connundrum

I was about to start a new thread, but may just tag onto this one and see what feedback comes.

Does anyone have an opinion on a 'stand out' CV format, akin to either having your CV front page in an infograph type layout:



Or taking the the Linkedin layout and going with it?

I ask as I'm looking to jazz up my CV to get across my creative (:o) side, but don't want to come across as cheezy.

I read about 30 - 40 CV's a month myself, and they all are very samey so I wonder if it's worth taking a chance regardless?

D.

callaway92

connundrum wrote: »

I was about to start a new thread, but may just tag onto this one and see what feedback comes.

Does anyone have an opinion on a 'stand out' CV format, akin to either having your CV front page in an infograph type layout:



Or taking the the Linkedin layout and going with it?

I ask as I'm looking to jazz up my CV to get across my creative (:o) side, but don't want to come across as cheezy.

I read about 30 - 40 CV's a month myself, and they all are very samey so I wonder if it's worth taking a chance regardless?

D.

Holy shít that is ridic tacky (the example pic)

Tiddlypeeps

Mc Love wrote: »

It's definitely the way forward for HR. If only it got some motion here it would revolutionise the way we go job hunting.

You can't skim an audio file of a person talking about themselves. One of the great things about CV's is you can more often than not just jump straight to the skills section and see if they have listed what you need. If yes then it's worth reading on, if not then it's wasted no more than 20 seconds of your time. Particularly in a world where recruiters seem to want to throw CV's at employers that are woefully unsuitable. If an employer needs C++ experience and the candidate has every other language under the sun listed under skills then it doesn't take more than a few seconds to skill and see no C++ and move on. With an audio file only you would literally need to listen to them rattle off the entire list before you could be satisfied what you are looking for isn't there.

I could probably see a place for them maybe replacing cover letters, but not CV's.

TG1

connundrum wrote: »

I was about to start a new thread, but may just tag onto this one and see what feedback comes.

Does anyone have an opinion on a 'stand out' CV format, akin to either having your CV front page in an infograph type layout:

Or taking the the Linkedin layout and going with it?

I ask as I'm looking to jazz up my CV to get across my creative (:o) side, but don't want to come across as cheezy.

I read about 30 - 40 CV's a month myself, and they all are very samey so I wonder if it's worth taking a chance regardless?

D.

For me, and I can only say what I like, it's less about stand out layouts, and more about stand out content. If someone includes measures of success in their previous role (eg. Recruited 40 New employees, increased sales by 15%, implemented a new stock system which decreased time spent stocktaking by 3 hours per week etc.) They will stick in my head.
The layout for me is just about making it easy to read, so having to go search through an infographic to find what I need to know would drive me mad!

Diziet

I have reviewed a lot of CVs and many are very poor. A CV with spelling or grammar errors does not enhance the writer's chances of getting to interview. And that includes common but annoying errors such as using the grocer's apostrophe for plurals (as in CV's instead of CVs).

Unless interviewing for a grocery position of course, and even then only if trying to be ironic.

TallGlass

Do people put LC results on there CV? I just put down that I have sat it and the year, location etc..

Also often wondering about this personal profile/introduction or aims piece at the top of the CV is that important?

Is there a point in applying for jobs wanting 5/6 items when you have only got say 3 of the requirements?

Third level qualifications are they important if asked for or should you apply if you've experience anyway and are certified?

Also, what about format for the files, whats the best format to use. I think I have missed out a few jobs because maybe the guys receiving the files cannot open it and do not care to find out how !

nikkibikki

TallGlass wrote:

Also, what about format for the files, whats the best format to use. I think I have missed out a few jobs because maybe the guys receiving the files cannot open it and do not care to find out how !

Was advised to send CV and cover letters in pdf. You can download a pdf creator and that allows you then to convert say a Word doc to pdf by "printing" to the pdf creator instead of the printer.

HTH

TallGlass

nikkibikki wrote: »

Was advised to send CV and cover letters in pdf. You can download a pdf creator and that allows you then to convert say a Word doc to pdf by "printing" to the pdf creator instead of the printer.

HTH

Good idea, thanks !

bikermartin

nikkibikki wrote: »

Was advised to send CV and cover letters in pdf. You can download a pdf creator and that allows you then to convert say a Word doc to pdf by "printing" to the pdf creator instead of the printer.

HTH

Always use PDF CV and letter. It's the most universal format so that's what I've used for a few years now.

Creamy Goodness

connundrum wrote: »

I was about to start a new thread, but may just tag onto this one and see what feedback comes.

Does anyone have an opinion on a 'stand out' CV format, akin to either having your CV front page in an infograph type layout:



Or taking the the Linkedin layout and going with it?

I ask as I'm looking to jazz up my CV to get across my creative (:o) side, but don't want to come across as cheezy.

I read about 30 - 40 CV's a month myself, and they all are very samey so I wonder if it's worth taking a chance regardless?

D.

Terrible,

1. "Digital Craftsman" — I think I just got a bit sick in my mouth. Using gender specific language (what if a woman picked this up? It doesn't real well at all).
2. Speech bubble "I design beautiful things"? — this "infographic", beautiful it is not (bad semantics off here for a reason see point 5).
3. "I've gotten paid... from time to time" — doesn't sit well with me and I think states the obvious, shows a weakness that you don't value your work from time to time to do it for free. No one should work for free (even if it's a great portfolio piece).
4. "Yes...I went to school for this" — screams I'm an arrogant fecker.
5. "Tools do not the craftsman make" — shows basic lack of the knowledge of grammar and semantics also using gender specific language.

What's wrong with a simple 2 page well designed, well typed out pdf. A CV isn't rocket science. Only three lines of space for your previous employment as well? That better be Shakespeare if you're thinking of doing that.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

Also, all this 'lorem ipsum...' stuff. Who's he trying to impress with his Latin?

TallGlass

How dare John Smith even think about "sleeping".

syklops

Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »

Also, all this 'lorem ipsum...' stuff. Who's he trying to impress with his Latin?

In publishing, lorem ipsum is known as filler text. You often see it on mock ups of websites, and sample wordpress themes.

To Connundrum, stand out CVs work well if you are going for a job in Publishing/Marketing etc, as they "get" it when they see it. A friend of mine studied marketing and one of the guys in her class put his CV on a 6 pack of craft beer. He walked into a job after he got his degree.

Neon_Lights

To be fair if you advertise a plebish job with no challenge you will attract the same sort of respondents. I'm not surprised.

loyatemu

syklops wrote: »

In publishing, lorem ipsum is known as filler text. You often see it on mock ups of websites, and sample wordpress themes.

I assumed he was joking.

Mc Love

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

You can't skim an audio file of a person talking about themselves. One of the great things about CV's is you can more often than not just jump straight to the skills section and see if they have listed what you need. If yes then it's worth reading on, if not then it's wasted no more than 20 seconds of your time. Particularly in a world where recruiters seem to want to throw CV's at employers that are woefully unsuitable. If an employer needs C++ experience and the candidate has every other language under the sun listed under skills then it doesn't take more than a few seconds to skill and see no C++ and move on. With an audio file only you would literally need to listen to them rattle off the entire list before you could be satisfied what you are looking for isn't there.

I could probably see a place for them maybe replacing cover letters, but not CV's.

Who said anything about having an audio file. I suspect you didnt actually read what a human voiced resume actually is.

RIALTO1

Would appreciate an opinion on the following.

My gf has an interview tomorrow, and it was arranged via an agency. She has just noticed on the final draft of her CV (I.e. the version the agency sent to the company), that there are spelling mistakes. It is just the same word, twice, and is a well known acronym in the industry.

So question is at what point does she mention it and blame the agency? Straight off the bat? When she is asked to talk through her CV? At the end? For me this is not her mistake and she needs to make that clear.

Thanks

nikkibikki

RIALTO1 wrote:

So question is at what point does she mention it and blame the agency? Straight off the bat? When she is asked to talk through her CV? At the end? For me this is not her mistake and she needs to make that clear.

But I'm guessing she submitted the CV to the agency? Yes they probably should have picked up the error but they didn't. Blaming the agency will win her no prizes in an interview. She needs to own it. Even just to say they sent an old draft with a spelling mistake. Say it at the start. Her honesty will be admired I am sure.

RIALTO1

nikkibikki wrote: »

But I'm guessing she submitted the CV to the agency? Yes they probably should have picked up the error but they didn't. Blaming the agency will win her no prizes in an interview. She needs to own it. Even just to say they sent an old draft with a spelling mistake. Say it at the start. Her honesty will be admired I am sure.

Thanks for the feedback. However it is 100% the agency's error. They restructured the cv and added bullet points at the top which is where the errors are. It is spelt correctly where it was in the original cv she sent them.

FloatingVoter

RIALTO1 wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. However it is 100% the agency's error. They restructured the cv and added bullet points at the top which is where the errors are. It is spelt correctly where it was in the original cv she sent them.

It matters whether they'll believe that or not. Candidates coming in blaming other people does not a good impression make. Candidates able to assume responsibility and "accidentally" show that they read what they write can be a vital icebreaker.
Sometimes the dog actually did eat the child's homework. It makes no difference to how the explanation is perceived.