Do you think criminals should be tagged?

freshpopcorn · 17-10-2015 03:22AM #1

I saw the end of The Late Late tonight and they were talking about rural crime. The subject of tagging criminals came up whilst they were out on bail/for a period after their scentence.

I'd have no issue with this system being in place be it.

Would you?

Note: I'm referring to serial/dangerous offenders!

Mountainsandh · 17-10-2015 03:29AM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I saw the end of The Late Late tonight and they were talking about rural crime. The subject of tagging criminals came up whilst they were out on bail/for a period after their scentence.

I'd have no issue with this system being in place be it.

Would you?

I would 100% support the idea. Commit a crime, lose freedom of anonymity. And a great way to prevent reoffending.

hatrickpatrick · 17-10-2015 03:49AM

For repeat, violent offenders? 100%. I wouldn't like to see it for once-off incidents of drunken disorder, not paying a parking fine, smoking weed etc. But for the type of scrotes who frequently make headlines with "has 47 previous convictions and is well known to the Gardai" and for reasons which are unintelligible also shares an article with the phrase "received a suspended sentence"? Absolutely. And everyone should be able to look at a Google Maps engine to see if any of these people are nearby.

MistyCheese · 17-10-2015 04:06AM

What good would someone spray painting their name on them do??

paleoperson · 17-10-2015 04:23AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

For repeat, violent offenders? 100%. I wouldn't like to see it for once-off incidents of drunken disorder, not paying a parking fine, smoking weed etc. But for the type of scrotes who frequently make headlines with "has 47 previous convictions and is well known to the Gardai" and for reasons which are unintelligible also shares an article with the phrase "received a suspended sentence"? Absolutely. And everyone should be able to look at a Google Maps engine to see if any of these people are nearby.

Those guys are the gardai and courts' best customers. If it weren't for those sort of guys being allowed out they'd have to do real work. Difficult detective stuff and ****, or else downsizing.

gobsh!te · 17-10-2015 08:49AM

Would love to tag bankers and politicians too....the real criminals

For Forks Sake · 17-10-2015 08:54AM

gobsh!te wrote: »

Would love to tag bankers and politicians too....the real criminals

Only took five posts. That's some fresh material you've got there man.

gobsh!te · 17-10-2015 08:57AM

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Only took five posts. That's some fresh material you've got there man.

Oh sorry, I'll take that back. Let's tag people yes, but if they commit a large crime let's not. Happy?

17-10-2015 09:17AM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I saw the end of The Late Late tonight and they were talking about rural crime. The subject of tagging criminals came up whilst they were out on bail/for a period after their scentence.

A person out on bail may not be a criminal.

I don't think that I'd have a huge objection to tagging those with numerous convictions, but not sure I'd lump bail into the mix...unless of course someone on bail for a fresh charge had lots of previous...in which case he'd be covered by the tagging of those with numerous convictions.

kirving · 17-10-2015 09:31AM

The more news stories I read where the criminal has 20, 50, 100 previous convictions, the more I think we should introduce three-strikes laws like the US.

mr_edge_to_you · 17-10-2015 09:33AM

On Facebook?

Badly Drunk Boy · 17-10-2015 09:37AM

gobsh!te wrote: »

Oh sorry, I'll take that back. Let's tag people yes, but if they commit a large crime let's not. Happy?

Tagging people is usually to know where they are in the event of new crimes happening. Apart from the fact that most of the bankers/politicians you're talking about haven't been charged with anything (unfortunately), what good would come from knowing if they're in their office or a fancy restaurant or their opulent mansion?

arayess · 17-10-2015 09:44AM

no.

It would an breach of their freedom.

I'm ok with it for early release but not while on bail until such time their sentence is done, they have the presumption of innocence and if they are deemed a threat the garda can ask the judge to deny bail. And the judge do accept the gardai's evidence.
Bail itself has it's own conditions which i think as responsible. Many people are confined to their house after dark, all it takes is a garda to call each night to check this. Any garda on their round could do this in 5 mins.

The fact the judge does not in some occasions is a good thing as it shows the independence of the judiciary which is good for us all.

For those who want this , it's a slippery slope and innocent people will suffer eventually.

Wibbs · 17-10-2015 10:04AM

arayess wrote: »

innocent people will suffer eventually.

Innocent people and society are already suffering from career criminals with no fear of the law and what passes for justice in this country. The judiciary needs a serious shakeup. Barely a week goes by without some judge or other handing down mind bogglingly lenient sentences, often suspended for serious crimes from repeat offenders.

wil · 17-10-2015 10:28AM

arayess wrote: »

no.

It would an breach of their freedom.

I'm ok with it for early release but not while on bail until such time their sentence is done, they have the presumption of innocence and if they are deemed a threat the garda can ask the judge to deny bail. And the judge do accept the gardai's evidence.
Bail itself has it's own conditions which i think as responsible. Many people are confined to their house after dark, all it takes is a garda to call each night to check this. Any garda on their round could do this in 5 mins.

The fact the judge does not in some occasions is a good thing as it shows the independence of the judiciary which is good for us all.

So again you put the unnecessary onus back on utterly stretched and frustrated Gardai to administer a system which serves no one well but the career criminal.

For those who want this , it's a slippery slope and innocent people will suffer eventually.

Or career criminals might be curtailed and innocent people will breathe easier immediately.

Anyway it's a relatively simple system, minimal if any effect on civil liberties as it's purely as an aid to enforcement of bail laws without the unnecessary manpower. It would make sense that Gardai should have easy access to information on the whereabouts of career criminals out on bail.
And also provide alerts so if a number congregate and head out during the middle of the night, priority would be given to investigate immediately etc.

suicide_circus · 17-10-2015 10:31AM

For career criminals who amasse tens or hundreds of convictions, show utter contempt for the law and represent a continued danger to society? Tag the fook out of them. The freedoms of one man who shows repeated and continued disregard for the law do not supersede the right of the public not to live in fear.

wil · 17-10-2015 10:34AM

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

Tagging people is usually to know where they are in the event of new crimes happening. Apart from the fact that most of the bankers/politicians you're talking about haven't been charged with anything (unfortunately), what good would come from knowing if they're in their office or a fancy restaurant or their opulent mansion?

Agreed
Exception might be if they were a significant flight risk on bail. Invariably they are likely to have flown long before charges are even considered so for the most part tagging seems fairly ineffective in regards to white collar crime.

kneemos · 17-10-2015 10:36AM

"What's the use learning to do right when it's troublesome to do right and it ain't no trouble to do wrong,and the wages are just the same?

Mark Twain.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 17-10-2015 10:39AM

arayess wrote: »

no.

It would an breach of their freedom.

I'm ok with it for early release but not while on bail until such time their sentence is done, they have the presumption of innocence and if they are deemed a threat the garda can ask the judge to deny bail. And the judge do accept the gardai's evidence.
Bail itself has it's own conditions which i think as responsible. Many people are confined to their house after dark, all it takes is a garda to call each night to check this. Any garda on their round could do this in 5 mins.

The fact the judge does not in some occasions is a good thing as it shows the independence of the judiciary which is good for us all.

For those who want this , it's a slippery slope and innocent people will suffer eventually.

We have something like 13,000 Gardai with at most 8-9,000 on duty at any one time and you expect them to be calling around to various addresses in their district to check if various on-bail individuals are complying with their bail conditions every night?

Seriously?

If they are granted bail, it should only be on the condition that they are tagged and if the tag is removed or they do not comply with their conditions, a mandatory jail sentence should be enforced.

You talk about their freedoms, what about the freedoms of the elderly in both rural and urban areas to live their lives in relative peace without having to worry 24/7 about these individuals breaking into their houses and beating them close to death and stealing what little of value they have to provide some comfort in their twilight years?

jon1981 · 17-10-2015 11:01AM

Yes, definitely and Running Man style tagging also!

damn... is embedding images no longer allowed?

osarusan · 17-10-2015 11:12AM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

And a great way to prevent reoffending.

Would it actually be a deterrent though?

I get the idea of tagging people with multiple convictions, but then again - they already have multiple convictions - it's not a case of not being able to arrest, charge and prosecute, it's a case of woefully lenient sentencing.

Kop On · 17-10-2015 11:23AM

100% for tagging and it should be inserted using an anal probe so it can't be removed or tampered with.

Rabo Karabekian · 17-10-2015 11:31AM

If you're on bail, you haven't actually been convicted of a crime, so you're technically tagging people who may not have committed anything. I would find that difficult to live with if I was being charged with a crime I didn't commit.

Then, if it's for a period after having served time, what's the point in doing time in prison?

You'd need a complete overhaul of how the criminal system operates, starting with the presumption of innocent until being proven guilty (does that apply in Ireland?) as well as whether prison is supposed to be a means to reform someone's character or just a punishment.

haveringchick · 17-10-2015 11:37AM

gobsh!te wrote: »

Would love to tag bankers and politicians too....the real criminals

So the scrote breaking into your house to **** on your bed and rob your kids Xbox isn't a criminal ?

wil · 17-10-2015 11:38AM

osarusan wrote: »

Would it actually be a deterrent though?

I get the idea of tagging people with multiple convictions, but then again - they already have multiple convictions - it's not a case of not being able to arrest, charge and prosecute, it's a case of woefully lenient sentencing.

Broke bail restrictions - go straight to jail

Or

"Ta said ag teacht"
to the tune of a dozen shotguns being cocked.

homerjay2005 · 17-10-2015 11:38AM

3 strike rule, automAtic and consistent sentences, removal of suspended sentences and outsourcing to eastern Europe of our serious criminals sentences is the way to go.

Little CuChulainn · 17-10-2015 11:43AM

People on bail with a history of bench warrants, people on temporary release or early release, people subject to the requirement of the sex offenders act. All should have ankle tags.

nullzero · 17-10-2015 11:44AM

I'm all for it although I'd prefer to see more prisons being built to dealing with over crowding which should hopefully lead to less suspended sentences being handed out to dangerous thugs who will never reform in any way. Ireland has a serious problem with criminality at the moment, particularly violent crimes such as aggrevated burglaries and muggings. It is too easy to get away with these offences and build a reputation for yourself as a little gangster these days,and that's before we get on to the huge elephant in the room that is traveller gangs who are terrorizing the country but we can't say it because we might be seen to be "racist". Criminals need to face actual punishment for their crimes, rehabilitation is one thing, but repeat offenders rarely change their ways so harsher custodial sentences are required.
I think that in years to come we will look back at this period in Irish history in a similar way New York city looks back at the 70's and 80's, which is to say "how the hell were things ever that bad?".

DEFTLEFTHAND · 17-10-2015 12:13PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

3 strike rule, automAtic and consistent sentences, removal of suspended sentences and outsourcing to eastern Europe of our serious criminals sentences is the way to go.

When you say 3 strike rule do you mean like the system in California where they end up going away for life? I think that would put massive pressure on an already buckling system, every two bit scrote the width and breadth of the country would be holed up for decades at the expense of the state.

Herb Powell · 17-10-2015 12:18PM

No.

Stupid creepy scaremongering bullshiit.

We should not be looking to the US for anything to do with the justice system. Fuccked as ours may be, theirs is an absolute shambles and does nothing to help their rate of crime.

conorhal · 17-10-2015 12:22PM

arayess wrote: »

no.

It would an breach of their freedom.

I'm ok with it for early release but not while on bail until such time their sentence is done, they have the presumption of innocence and if they are deemed a threat the garda can ask the judge to deny bail. And the judge do accept the gardai's evidence.
Bail itself has it's own conditions which i think as responsible. Many people are confined to their house after dark, all it takes is a garda to call each night to check this. Any garda on their round could do this in 5 mins.

The fact the judge does not in some occasions is a good thing as it shows the independence of the judiciary which is good for us all.

For those who want this , it's a slippery slope and innocent people will suffer eventually.

The problem is that a) they have a constitutional right to bail that makes it difficult to refuse even repeat offenders that are up in court charged with a crime even while out on bail and b) there's simply no places in prison to put offenders even if they could or should be refused bail so judges only tend to refuse it in extremis.

The obvious and sensible approach would be to tag and track criminals charged with a serious offence when granted bail. It would put a serious dent in a serial burglars career if he could be tagged at the location of a burglary when it happened.

TBH I'm heartsick of listening to endless reasons as to why we can't do something when mostly they are excuses as to why we won't do something.

Is there any chance that just for once the defenders of the indefensible might propose a suggestion as to what we CAN or SHOULD do?

Do you think criminals should be tagged?

Do you think criminals should be tagged? 84 votes

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