Do you think criminals should be tagged?

freshpopcorn

I saw the end of The Late Late tonight and they were talking about rural crime. The subject of tagging criminals came up whilst they were out on bail/for a period after their scentence.

I'd have no issue with this system being in place be it.

Would you?

Note: I'm referring to serial/dangerous offenders!

Mountainsandh

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I saw the end of The Late Late tonight and they were talking about rural crime. The subject of tagging criminals came up whilst they were out on bail/for a period after their scentence.

I'd have no issue with this system being in place be it.

Would you?

I would 100% support the idea. Commit a crime, lose freedom of anonymity. And a great way to prevent reoffending.

hatrickpatrick

For repeat, violent offenders? 100%. I wouldn't like to see it for once-off incidents of drunken disorder, not paying a parking fine, smoking weed etc. But for the type of scrotes who frequently make headlines with "has 47 previous convictions and is well known to the Gardai" and for reasons which are unintelligible also shares an article with the phrase "received a suspended sentence"? Absolutely. And everyone should be able to look at a Google Maps engine to see if any of these people are nearby.

MistyCheese

What good would someone spray painting their name on them do??

paleoperson

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

For repeat, violent offenders? 100%. I wouldn't like to see it for once-off incidents of drunken disorder, not paying a parking fine, smoking weed etc. But for the type of scrotes who frequently make headlines with "has 47 previous convictions and is well known to the Gardai" and for reasons which are unintelligible also shares an article with the phrase "received a suspended sentence"? Absolutely. And everyone should be able to look at a Google Maps engine to see if any of these people are nearby.

Those guys are the gardai and courts' best customers. If it weren't for those sort of guys being allowed out they'd have to do real work. Difficult detective stuff and ****, or else downsizing.

gobsh!te

Would love to tag bankers and politicians too....the real criminals

For Forks Sake

gobsh!te wrote: »

Would love to tag bankers and politicians too....the real criminals

Only took five posts. That's some fresh material you've got there man.

gobsh!te

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Only took five posts. That's some fresh material you've got there man.

Oh sorry, I'll take that back. Let's tag people yes, but if they commit a large crime let's not. Happy?

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I saw the end of The Late Late tonight and they were talking about rural crime. The subject of tagging criminals came up whilst they were out on bail/for a period after their scentence.

A person out on bail may not be a criminal.

I don't think that I'd have a huge objection to tagging those with numerous convictions, but not sure I'd lump bail into the mix...unless of course someone on bail for a fresh charge had lots of previous...in which case he'd be covered by the tagging of those with numerous convictions.

kirving

The more news stories I read where the criminal has 20, 50, 100 previous convictions, the more I think we should introduce three-strikes laws like the US.

mr_edge_to_you

On Facebook?

Badly Drunk Boy

gobsh!te wrote: »

Oh sorry, I'll take that back. Let's tag people yes, but if they commit a large crime let's not. Happy?

Tagging people is usually to know where they are in the event of new crimes happening. Apart from the fact that most of the bankers/politicians you're talking about haven't been charged with anything (unfortunately), what good would come from knowing if they're in their office or a fancy restaurant or their opulent mansion?

arayess

no.

It would an breach of their freedom.

I'm ok with it for early release but not while on bail until such time their sentence is done, they have the presumption of innocence and if they are deemed a threat the garda can ask the judge to deny bail. And the judge do accept the gardai's evidence.
Bail itself has it's own conditions which i think as responsible. Many people are confined to their house after dark, all it takes is a garda to call each night to check this. Any garda on their round could do this in 5 mins.

The fact the judge does not in some occasions is a good thing as it shows the independence of the judiciary which is good for us all.

For those who want this , it's a slippery slope and innocent people will suffer eventually.

Wibbs

arayess wrote: »

innocent people will suffer eventually.

Innocent people and society are already suffering from career criminals with no fear of the law and what passes for justice in this country. The judiciary needs a serious shakeup. Barely a week goes by without some judge or other handing down mind bogglingly lenient sentences, often suspended for serious crimes from repeat offenders.

wil

arayess wrote: »

no.

It would an breach of their freedom.

I'm ok with it for early release but not while on bail until such time their sentence is done, they have the presumption of innocence and if they are deemed a threat the garda can ask the judge to deny bail. And the judge do accept the gardai's evidence.
Bail itself has it's own conditions which i think as responsible. Many people are confined to their house after dark, all it takes is a garda to call each night to check this. Any garda on their round could do this in 5 mins.

The fact the judge does not in some occasions is a good thing as it shows the independence of the judiciary which is good for us all.

So again you put the unnecessary onus back on utterly stretched and frustrated Gardai to administer a system which serves no one well but the career criminal.

For those who want this , it's a slippery slope and innocent people will suffer eventually.

Or career criminals might be curtailed and innocent people will breathe easier immediately.

Anyway it's a relatively simple system, minimal if any effect on civil liberties as it's purely as an aid to enforcement of bail laws without the unnecessary manpower. It would make sense that Gardai should have easy access to information on the whereabouts of career criminals out on bail.
And also provide alerts so if a number congregate and head out during the middle of the night, priority would be given to investigate immediately etc.

suicide_circus

For career criminals who amasse tens or hundreds of convictions, show utter contempt for the law and represent a continued danger to society? Tag the fook out of them. The freedoms of one man who shows repeated and continued disregard for the law do not supersede the right of the public not to live in fear.

wil

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

Tagging people is usually to know where they are in the event of new crimes happening. Apart from the fact that most of the bankers/politicians you're talking about haven't been charged with anything (unfortunately), what good would come from knowing if they're in their office or a fancy restaurant or their opulent mansion?

Agreed
Exception might be if they were a significant flight risk on bail. Invariably they are likely to have flown long before charges are even considered so for the most part tagging seems fairly ineffective in regards to white collar crime.

kneemos

"What's the use learning to do right when it's troublesome to do right and it ain't no trouble to do wrong,and the wages are just the same?

Mark Twain.

Buford T. Justice XIX

arayess wrote: »

no.

It would an breach of their freedom.

I'm ok with it for early release but not while on bail until such time their sentence is done, they have the presumption of innocence and if they are deemed a threat the garda can ask the judge to deny bail. And the judge do accept the gardai's evidence.
Bail itself has it's own conditions which i think as responsible. Many people are confined to their house after dark, all it takes is a garda to call each night to check this. Any garda on their round could do this in 5 mins.

The fact the judge does not in some occasions is a good thing as it shows the independence of the judiciary which is good for us all.

For those who want this , it's a slippery slope and innocent people will suffer eventually.

We have something like 13,000 Gardai with at most 8-9,000 on duty at any one time and you expect them to be calling around to various addresses in their district to check if various on-bail individuals are complying with their bail conditions every night?

Seriously?

If they are granted bail, it should only be on the condition that they are tagged and if the tag is removed or they do not comply with their conditions, a mandatory jail sentence should be enforced.

You talk about their freedoms, what about the freedoms of the elderly in both rural and urban areas to live their lives in relative peace without having to worry 24/7 about these individuals breaking into their houses and beating them close to death and stealing what little of value they have to provide some comfort in their twilight years?

jon1981

Yes, definitely and Running Man style tagging also!




damn... is embedding images no longer allowed?

osarusan

Mountainsandh wrote: »

And a great way to prevent reoffending.

Would it actually be a deterrent though?

I get the idea of tagging people with multiple convictions, but then again - they already have multiple convictions - it's not a case of not being able to arrest, charge and prosecute, it's a case of woefully lenient sentencing.

Kop On

100% for tagging and it should be inserted using an anal probe so it can't be removed or tampered with.

Rabo Karabekian

If you're on bail, you haven't actually been convicted of a crime, so you're technically tagging people who may not have committed anything. I would find that difficult to live with if I was being charged with a crime I didn't commit.

Then, if it's for a period after having served time, what's the point in doing time in prison?

You'd need a complete overhaul of how the criminal system operates, starting with the presumption of innocent until being proven guilty (does that apply in Ireland?) as well as whether prison is supposed to be a means to reform someone's character or just a punishment.

haveringchick

gobsh!te wrote: »

Would love to tag bankers and politicians too....the real criminals

So the scrote breaking into your house to **** on your bed and rob your kids Xbox isn't a criminal ?

wil

osarusan wrote: »

Would it actually be a deterrent though?

I get the idea of tagging people with multiple convictions, but then again - they already have multiple convictions - it's not a case of not being able to arrest, charge and prosecute, it's a case of woefully lenient sentencing.

Broke bail restrictions - go straight to jail

Or

"Ta said ag teacht"
to the tune of a dozen shotguns being cocked.

homerjay2005

3 strike rule, automAtic and consistent sentences, removal of suspended sentences and outsourcing to eastern Europe of our serious criminals sentences is the way to go.

Little CuChulainn

People on bail with a history of bench warrants, people on temporary release or early release, people subject to the requirement of the sex offenders act. All should have ankle tags.

nullzero

I'm all for it although I'd prefer to see more prisons being built to dealing with over crowding which should hopefully lead to less suspended sentences being handed out to dangerous thugs who will never reform in any way. Ireland has a serious problem with criminality at the moment, particularly violent crimes such as aggrevated burglaries and muggings. It is too easy to get away with these offences and build a reputation for yourself as a little gangster these days,and that's before we get on to the huge elephant in the room that is traveller gangs who are terrorizing the country but we can't say it because we might be seen to be "racist". Criminals need to face actual punishment for their crimes, rehabilitation is one thing, but repeat offenders rarely change their ways so harsher custodial sentences are required.
I think that in years to come we will look back at this period in Irish history in a similar way New York city looks back at the 70's and 80's, which is to say "how the hell were things ever that bad?".

DEFTLEFTHAND

homerjay2005 wrote: »

3 strike rule, automAtic and consistent sentences, removal of suspended sentences and outsourcing to eastern Europe of our serious criminals sentences is the way to go.

When you say 3 strike rule do you mean like the system in California where they end up going away for life? I think that would put massive pressure on an already buckling system, every two bit scrote the width and breadth of the country would be holed up for decades at the expense of the state.

Herb Powell

No.

Stupid creepy scaremongering bullshiit.

We should not be looking to the US for anything to do with the justice system. Fuccked as ours may be, theirs is an absolute shambles and does nothing to help their rate of crime.

conorhal

arayess wrote: »

no.

It would an breach of their freedom.

I'm ok with it for early release but not while on bail until such time their sentence is done, they have the presumption of innocence and if they are deemed a threat the garda can ask the judge to deny bail. And the judge do accept the gardai's evidence.
Bail itself has it's own conditions which i think as responsible. Many people are confined to their house after dark, all it takes is a garda to call each night to check this. Any garda on their round could do this in 5 mins.

The fact the judge does not in some occasions is a good thing as it shows the independence of the judiciary which is good for us all.

For those who want this , it's a slippery slope and innocent people will suffer eventually.

The problem is that a) they have a constitutional right to bail that makes it difficult to refuse even repeat offenders that are up in court charged with a crime even while out on bail and b) there's simply no places in prison to put offenders even if they could or should be refused bail so judges only tend to refuse it in extremis.

The obvious and sensible approach would be to tag and track criminals charged with a serious offence when granted bail. It would put a serious dent in a serial burglars career if he could be tagged at the location of a burglary when it happened.

TBH I'm heartsick of listening to endless reasons as to why we can't do something when mostly they are excuses as to why we won't do something.

Is there any chance that just for once the defenders of the indefensible might propose a suggestion as to what we CAN or SHOULD do?

Mountainsandh

osarusan wrote: »

Would it actually be a deterrent though?

I get the idea of tagging people with multiple convictions, but then again - they already have multiple convictions - it's not a case of not being able to arrest, charge and prosecute, it's a case of woefully lenient sentencing.

Well it wouldn't work with the worst Darwin award contenders, but it would with the more clever guys, if they knew they could be pinpointed to a location in the event of more crime. Of course the justice system needs to sentence accordingly, that's an ongoing other issue.

Any reduction in numbers is good I guess, even if it only works for some.

edit : my original post was at 3.30 am, I didn't think to state that it should be for multiple re-offenders imo, not someone who's just been caught for a small thing.

Mountainsandh

conorhal wrote: »

TBH I'm heartsick of listening to endless reasons as to why we can't do something when mostly they are excuses as to why we won't do something.

There's way too much of that alright. Sometimes you need to go ahead and just make the mistakes, then correct track after.
The system is already dysfunctional (and unfair to victims) so it's not like we'd be going from perfect to less perfect.

justchecked

Theres at least enough reasons here to give it a trial run on a small test group of scrotes.
Say a year or two then check the stats.
Wish the govt would try it.

Summer wind

I would tag each and every one of them. If it stops old people being robbed and beaten in their own homes, people being mugged, stabbed, beaten or raped. Cars being stolen or broken into. Shops and farmyards being robbed. I don't see why not.

Kermit.de.frog

We don't have a proper police force or justice system in this country. I doubt their ability to run a tagging program tbh.

It is absolutely disgraceful how our capital city and the country as a whole has been surrendered to absolute scumbags who know they can do whatever they like. The guards are not up to it at all.

Little CuChulainn

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We don't have a proper police force or justice system in this country. I doubt their ability to run a tagging program tbh.

It is absolutely disgraceful how our capital city and the country as a whole has been surrendered to absolute scumbags who know they can do whatever they like. The guards are not up to it at all.

The fact that all those scumbags have many convictions should tell you that enforcement is not the issue. It's sentencing and rehabilitation were the system is falling.

Bubbaclaus

Anybody with 3+ convictions should be pernamently tagged as far as I'm concerned

The_Valeyard

Defo if on parole

osarusan

conorhal wrote: »

The obvious and sensible approach would be to tag and track criminals charged with a serious offence when granted bail. It would put a serious dent in a serial burglars career if he could be tagged at the location of a burglary when it happened.

Would it?

Sure, it would reduce crime as it would deter some people, no doubt. But many criminals are already getting caught now, but not getting sentenced properly. It's more an issue of sentencing than catching them in the first place.

A guy with 125 previous convictions has already been caught, charged and prosecuted 125 times. I'd say he doesn't have much fear of getting caught as there's no punishment, so I'm not sure how much of a deterrent tagging would be.


What to do - proper sentencing*, proper judges.


*still not an advocate of three-strike rule or similar though.

Taxburden carrier

Tags that explode when they go outside their designated area might work !

The Randy Riverbeast

Im not against the idea but Im not sure how much it would help. When we're dealing with people who have gotten 50+ convictions already I doubt they care if they're caught.

mynamejeff

arayess wrote: »

no.

It would an breach of their freedom.

I'm ok with it for early release but not while on bail until such time their sentence is done, they have the presumption of innocence and if they are deemed a threat the garda can ask the judge to deny bail. And the judge do accept the gardai's evidence.
Bail itself has it's own conditions which i think as responsible. Many people are confined to their house after dark, all it takes is a garda to call each night to check this. Any garda on their round could do this in 5 mins.

The fact the judge does not in some occasions is a good thing as it shows the independence of the judiciary which is good for us all.

For those who want this , it's a slippery slope and innocent people will suffer eventually.

you don't seem to be familiar with the situation that the country is in presently
criminals are criminals. do you think that they will stay home if a judge tells them?
judges regularly ignore garda objections to bail and allow criminals to commit more crimes.

I know of one guy who assaulted three people on a night out including breaking a man jaw in a unprovoked rampage with his brothers. just walked into a taxi office and started punching and kicking people at random.
He ran off that night but gardai eventually caught him and charged him he got bail , didnt show up for court twice went not guilty despite clear cctv. has been charged 15 times for theft each time the gardai object to bail which he gets. last time he was in court when his solicitor told him he might get custody he legged it and he is back breaking into peoples houses now.

but he is innocent till proven guilty ...........

criminals dont live by the same standards as most people, assuming that they do is a foolish mistake to make

Stojkovic

I wouldnt tag them Id shoot the scrotes.

Stojkovic

I wouldnt tag them Id shoot the scrotes.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

sonny.knowles

If by 'tagged' you mean beheaded, then probably not.