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Fire at a halting site in Dublin *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Comments

  • #602
    theRanger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 ✭theRanger


    The reality of the situation is that the council decided to post letters through residents doors when the vast Majority of them had gone to work. A short time later the JCB’s arrived to start work. Intentionally underhand it seems, you can decide.

    The Residents were in no way consulted on this, there isn’t a person on this forum who wouldn’t have some element of concern if it was directly beside their own property.

    You get a letter through your door and it seems that an hour later Heavy machinery turns up outside YOUR house to start work.

    The site is in an already busy cul-de-sac, which in my opinion is not fit for purpose. There Must be a number of more appropriate locations, that would have accommodated everyone involved.

    These residents have been propelled into a situation by their local council, and the media will lap it up describing it as shameful and a sad reflection upon society.

    It has been handled very poorly by the council. The Funerals have not even taken place of the people who died, yet the focus is now on this issue.

    The local council should have foreseen the obvious objections. As if the families of these victims haven’t enough to worry about, the media will whip this into a story and create unnecessary stress.

    There isn’t an objectively minded individual, who wouldn’t have concern about travellers locating beside their houses. It’s not being a racist, it’s being a realist.

    You can look at this and argue both sides, but this argument should not even be happening had it been dealt with correctly by the local council.

    The bigger picture here is that 10 people burned to death in a site that was ultimately setup and then forgotten about by local authorities. A knee jerk reaction to locate them in an area that causes unnecessary contention at this time is a disgrace.

    Yes they have the powers to do what they want in emergency situations, but the sheer fact we are having this discussion mean it hasn't been dealt with responsibly in my opinion.


  • #603
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    efb wrote: »
    That is beyond miserable and selfish

    (Traveller camp at the end of my road before you ask)
    efb wrote: »
    They had no choice but to act illegally???

    They could have gotten an injunction preventing the work- lots do

    they didnt act illegally though.


  • #604
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    efb wrote: »
    my gate doesn't have a sign doesn't mean you can park there either!

    Does it have a big boulder in front of it placed there to stop travellers and caravans gaining illegal access ?


  • #605
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    smash wrote: »
    After the Travellers moved in?

    Bottom line is that the vast majority of people who have paid a premium for their house will not want a halting site anywhere near them. They're messy, they can be loud, the occupants can be pretty unsavoury characters and they seriously devalue property in the area.

    I'm with the residents here. The fire was tragic but the council need to wise up and not just dump the travellers in the nearest field they can find. The residents have very legitimate concerns!
    paying a premium for your house only entitles you to own that house and garden if it has one upon full repayment of that premium. nothing more. the value of investments can go down as well as up. plenty of property that once was a certain value has gone down, thats life. its a gamble. the residents lost any right to "legitimate" concerns when they blocked a public road

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #606
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    efb wrote: »
    They had no choice but to act illegally???

    They could have gotten an injunction preventing the work- lots do

    They could have gotten an injunction in an hour???


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  • #607
    Lord Trollington
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭Lord Trollington


    efb wrote: »
    my gate doesn't have a sign doesn't mean you can park there either!

    Maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but I presume your gate is access to your dwelling.

    Where they parked had access to boulders which in turn had access to a gated field which looks to have lying their for some time at the end of a cul de sac where some residents have been living for 20+ years. Hardly comparable .


  • #608
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    they didnt act illegally though.

    Preventing council access to their own land?


  • #609
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    Efb!! You are some man!! Have you ever considered your viewpoint might be now thwarted by your inability to back down in an argument. You have an answer to everything, each one less logical and desperate than the next. Let's see how it plays out. You have no knowledge of what is being said in that meeting.



    It's all "hearsay"


  • #610
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Lord Trollington wrote: »
    Maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but I presume your gate is access to your dwelling.

    Where they parked had access to boulders which in turn had access to a gated field which looks to have lying their for some time at the end of a cul de sac where some residents have been living for 20+ years. Hardly comparable .



    Right of way is right of way


  • #611
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,457 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    What I don't understand is why make an exception for these family members? Can these travelers not be catered for with the existing emergency housing mechanism? I understand that they have gone through a terrible experience but if this was a non traveler family and their house burnt down would the council not use the normal mechanisms in place. I very much doubt that they would swing into action and build them a new temporary house. If the traveling community want to be treated equally then they should use the mechanisms that all citizens have to use and not expect to have special exemptions all the time.


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  • #612
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    This coming from the person that doesn't clearly read my points as I earlier clarified I was male...


  • #613
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    VinLieger wrote: »
    They could have gotten an injunction in an hour???

    I've seen it done! Go to high court


  • #614
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    end of the road wrote: »
    paying a premium for your house only entitles you to own that house and garden if it has one upon full repayment of that premium. nothing more. the value of investments can go down as well as up. plenty of property that once was a certain value has gone down, thats life. its a gamble. the residents lost any right to "legitimate" concerns when they blocked a public road

    God its like youve been listening to investment ads on the radio on repeat, your like a parrot "investments can go down as well as up" "investments can go down as well as up" "investments can go down as well as up"

    Yeah that specific phrase is in relation to shares btw when it comes to property market values do of course broadly affect everyones property and theres nothing anyone can do about that but the reason we have planning laws with objection and appeal periods is for situations EXACTLY like this and the council have stupidly tried to ignore those procedures and caused a disgraceful mess by doing so


  • #615
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    efb wrote: »
    Right of way is right of way

    No right of way when a permanent blockade has been placed there. Also no double yellow lines.

    If a crime had been committed the Garda would have acted on it.


  • #616
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    Efb!! You are some man!! Have you ever considered your viewpoint might be now thwarted by your inability to back down in an argument. You have an answer to everything, each one less logical and desperate than the next. Let's see how it plays out. You have no knowledge of what is being said in that meeting.
    Aw, I do hate it when a good rant is ruined by this sort of saying-the-opposite-of-what-I-meant, don't you?


  • #617
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    JustTheOne wrote: »
    Nonsense. Some of them are staying in hotels.

    They don't want houres.

    Their is 20 houses the other end of the street boarded up that were given to the travellers for free 150 years ago.

    They didn't want them then and they don't want them now.

    Again, forgive the ignorance, but why not? Surely with winter getting closer, houses would be more comfortable than pre-fabs?


  • #618
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    jobyrne30 wrote: »
    No right of way when a permanent blockade has been placed there. Also no double yellow lines.

    If a crime had been committed the Garda would have acted on it.

    Not always the best course of action. The council could remove the boulder do not permanent

    Double yellow lines... Really??? Straws!!!


  • #619
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    efb wrote: »
    I've seen it done! Go to high court

    Your making a large assumption that any of them were well versed in the law to do this.


  • #620
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    efb wrote: »
    This coming from the person that doesn't clearly read my points as I earlier clarified I was male...

    hearsay. you are merely an avatar to me.


  • #621
    brooke 2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    theRanger wrote: »
    The reality of the situation is that the council decided to post letters through residents doors when the vast Majority of them had gone to work. A short time later the JCB’s arrived to start work. Intentionally underhand it seems, you can decide.

    The Residents were in no way consulted on this, there isn’t a person on this forum who wouldn’t have some element of concern if it was directly beside their own property.

    You get a letter through your door and it seems that an hour later Heavy machinery turns up outside YOUR house to start work.

    The site is in an already busy cul-de-sac, which in my opinion is not fit for purpose. There Must be a number of more appropriate locations, that would have accommodated everyone involved.

    These residents have been propelled into a situation by their local council, and the media will lap it up describing it as shameful and a sad reflection upon society.

    It has been handled very poorly by the council. The Funerals have not even taken place of the people who died, yet the focus is now on this issue.

    The local council should have foreseen the obvious objections. As if the families of these victims haven’t enough to worry about, the media will whip this into a story and create unnecessary stress.

    There isn’t an objectively minded individual, who wouldn’t have concern about travellers locating beside their houses. It’s not being a racist, it’s being a realist.

    You can look at this and argue both sides, but this argument should not even be happening had it been dealt with correctly by the local council.

    The bigger picture here is that 10 people burned to death in a site that was ultimately setup and then forgotten about by local authorities. A knee jerk reaction to locate them in an area that causes unnecessary contention at this time is a disgrace.

    Yes they have the powers to do what they want in emergency situations, but the sheer fact we are having this discussion mean it hasn't been dealt with responsibly in my opinion.

    This gets worse and worse! Imagine if all the residents were out in the morning and arrived home to see the bulldozer in the field at the end of their road??!! The timing of the delivery of this notice reminds me of the practice of politicians breaking bad news on a Friday evening or just before the holidays!! To use Alan Kelly's word - it
    Is 'shameful'!!


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  • #622
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Your making a large assumption that any of them were well versed in the law to do this.

    That doesn't entitle them to take the law into their own hands!


  • #623
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    gandalf wrote: »
    They protected their properties from a council that didn't follow due process and I commend them for their actions.

    How do you suggest that they "take issue" with the council when they get two hours notice and the digger is already at their doorstep to start to construct this site. Bear in mind that the temporary site this is replacing was a temporary site itself? I believe it's been in situ 15+ years?
    they protected their property from nothing, blocked a public road. i have no sympathy for them now. any criminal charges that could be brought against them should be

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #624
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    hearsay. you are merely an avatar to me.

    You didn't read the definition I said I was male. That's not hearsay. Is that your new word of the day? Pure and simple


  • #625
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Again, forgive the ignorance, but why not? Surely with winter getting closer, houses would be more comfortable than pre-fabs?

    Cus its not part of their culture of course, and we have to cater to every need of theirs as that is what society does to its law abiding, tax paying, constructive members ........ oh wait


  • #626
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    efb wrote: »
    That doesn't entitle them to take the law into their own hands!

    They didn't...... if they broke laws the Garda would have acted on it. Especially with such a high profile background to the whole episode.

    The council wouldn't have engaged with discussions today with said law breakers and Enda wouldn't have back them up making Alan's Kelly look like a fool


  • #627
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Oh I was off signing the book of condolences for the family and also the Garda in Louth if I didn't reply quick enough


  • #628
    Lord Trollington
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭Lord Trollington


    Maybe it's part of the culture of the residents to park their cars where they wish on a lane where they have lived for 40 odd years.


  • #629
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    jobyrne30 wrote: »
    They didn't...... if they broke laws the Garda would have acted on it. Especially with such a high profile background to the whole episode.

    The council wouldn't have engaged with discussions today with said law breakers and Enda wouldn't have back them up make Alan Kelly look like a fool

    Gardai don't act on all breaches of the law


  • #630
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    efb wrote: »
    Gardai don't act on all breaches of the law
    Shhh... nobody likes that kinda talk 'round here...


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  • #631
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Cus its not part of their culture of course, and we have to cater to every need of theirs as that is what society does to its law abiding, tax paying, constructive members ........ oh wait

    Ok, this isn't getting much clearer. I'm pretty sure that there are in fact travellers living in perfectly normal houses. Why would their culture object to that?


This discussion has been closed.
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