Fire at a halting site in Dublin Mod Warning Post #1

efb · 14-10-2015 12:52PM

VinLieger wrote: »

So that would be hearsay?

No, first hand accounts, the witness telling a journalist like the witness telling a reporter in your instance.

StewartGriffin · 14-10-2015 12:53PM

Bebopclown wrote: »

I used to work in the area near this site and I have dealt with some of the people affected by this fire first hand and I can tell you I wouldn't want them living anywhere near me. While I don't know all 15, the ones I do know made my life a living hell while working. It got to the point where I was terrified to go to work for fear that they would show up. I was also scared to leave for fear that they would be waiting for me. I don't know if I can / should go into specifics of things they would do but I personally ended up in theropy from my dealing with them. I was terrified and honestly felt relief when I left that job.

So here then is a first hand eye witness report. Not hearsay or speculation.

Explains why the residents don't want these people moving in beside them.

efb · 14-10-2015 12:53PM

seamus wrote: »

Are these the accounts written after the deaths? Were they written by residents or by their friends and family?

Perhaps the local Gardai should be asked for their opinion. I think that would be fair and impartial, what do you reckon?

I never knew you needed garda clearance to live somewhere before...

efb · 14-10-2015 12:54PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

So here then is a first hand eye witness report. Not hearsay or speculation.

Explains why the residents don't want these people moving in beside them.

He does specify he can't say whether these are the people being rehoused, so until that is established its moot.

seamus · 14-10-2015 12:55PM

efb wrote: »

No, first hand accounts, the witness telling a journalist like the witness telling a reporter in your instance.

Actually, that's hearsay. Something written by a reporter is hearsay. Audio played during an interview is a first-hand account. The one interview I heard is actually hearsay too though - a woman was explaining that her husband hears all sorts of noise and commotion when he walked past the halting site.

efb wrote: »

I never knew you needed garda clearance to live somewhere before...

That wasn't the question. I asked whether you reckoned asking the local Gardai's opinion on whether these are good, quiet law-abiding citizens would be a good idea.

ElectraX · 14-10-2015 12:56PM

Efb, can you just take off your PC hat for two seconds to deal with the reality of the situation being put forward here. Yes a halting site at the end of a cul de sac is going to devalue the price of property on the road, that is FACT and residents have every right to have concerns in relation to that as welll as a multitude of other potential issues.
I have no doubt that these residents like the majority of the country have the upmost sympathy for the families affected by this awful tragedy but can you please put forward your arguments that suggest they are bad people because they don't want the halting site repositioned on their estate???

gandalf · 14-10-2015 12:56PM

efb wrote: »

Devaluation of property... thats delightful

Yes that is a very valid concern. People have a right to protect the value of their investment.

The council are the ones that peoples ire and outrage directed should be directed towards. What reaction did they expect in giving a couple of hours notice of trying to set up a situation like this with absolutely no consultation with the home owners effected.

Again I know of no home owner who would consent to a situation that leaves them open to potentially anti-social neighbours moving in rapidly without any recourse, consultation or input.

Would a non-traveling family get this special treatment from the council if the situation was reversed. I doubt it.

joe316 · 14-10-2015 12:57PM

efb wrote: »

I never knew you needed garda clearance to live somewhere before...

Can they move in beside you then?

StewartGriffin · 14-10-2015 12:57PM

efb wrote: »

He does specify he can't say whether these are the people being rehoused, so until that is established its moot.

Well lets say, for arguments sake, that they are the same people. Does that change your point of view?

Shurimgreat · 14-10-2015 12:57PM

brooke 2 wrote: »

It seems to me that very little respect has been shown to those residents who appear to live in quite modest houses. Would the Co Co have tried to move in the travellers to a site bordering on the residences of any of the politicians in the area? Shane Ross? Alan Shatter? Somehow, I doubt it!!

Doubtful. PC liberal brigade are often the biggest "nimbys" of all which is ultimately the problem. If they wouldn't invite these families to their own backyard then its hard to take their outrage seriously.

Ultimately there is an element of nimbyism in everyone, pc brigade or not. I'm sick of people preaching to others that something must be done so long as it doesn't impact on them. Like I said there's more than enough pc liberals to take in one family each.

The way the carrickmines residents were informed at short notice was shameful and now they are made to feel like racists when many are not.

Penn · 14-10-2015 12:58PM

efb wrote: »

Devaluation of property... thats delightful

But also true, and not exclusive to halting sites. It can have the effect of limiting what activities may occur on the site (farming etc for greenfield sites). It has an effect on noise, traffic in the area etc. It's not simply because it's a halting site that the value of neighbouring properties may decrease. Hell if the council built a playground there it would have the same effect. Or a wastewater treatment plant.

These things can and will affect property prices, and be used to haggle down prices.

efb · 14-10-2015 12:58PM

seamus wrote: »

Actually, that's hearsay. Something written by a reporter is hearsay. Audio played during an interview is a first-hand account. The one interview I heard is actually hearsay too though - a woman was explaining that her husband hears all sorts of noise and commotion when he walked past the halting site.

That wasn't the question. I asked whether you reckoned asking the local Gardai's opinion on whether these are good, quiet law-abiding citizens would be a good idea.

Unless its required for all people moving into government provided property, yes, otherwise no.

efb · 14-10-2015 12:59PM

Penn wrote: »

But also true, and not exclusive to halting sites. It can have the effect of limiting what activities may occur on the site (farming etc for greenfield sites). It has an effect on noise, traffic in the area etc. It's not because it's a halting site that the value of neighbouring properties may decrease. Hell if the council built a playground there it would have the same effect. Or a wastewater treatment plant.

These things can and will affect property prices, and be used to haggle down prices.

I would take issue with anyone who would leave someone homeless, because it would effect the value of their own property.

efb · 14-10-2015 01:00PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

Well lets say, for arguments sake, that they are the same people. Does that change your point of view?

Lets say one is the reincarnated Christ, does that change yours?

Hypothetical situations are meaningless

efb · 14-10-2015 01:01PM

joe316 wrote: »

Can they move in beside you then?

Yes, I live beside 2 halting sites, 1 official, 1 unofficial

brooke 2 · 14-10-2015 01:02PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Yup letter went in the door yesterday morning and diggers arrived 1-2 hours later

GUBU! I don't blame the residents - from what I am reading here, they have had bad experiences with this particular group, in spite of the glowing reports which we have read about it in the papers.

seamus · 14-10-2015 01:03PM

efb wrote: »

Unless its required for all people moving into government provided property, yes, otherwise no.

OK, so then you're left with the local residents. They're entitled to object, right? And if their objections are based on first-hand experience of anti-social behaviour from the proposed new residents, then what's your problem?

Isn't their first-hand experience more valid than anything else, especially if you won't allow the council to speak to the Gardai?

Shurimgreat · 14-10-2015 01:03PM

efb wrote: »

I would take issue with anyone who would leave someone homeless, because it would effect the value of their own property.

Property value is only one part of it. There are a number of others as well. A halting site needs to be properly planned, serviced, etc. There are all sorts of issues that can arise particularly how waste is treated and anti social behaviour.

Very few people would want to live next door to a halting site for many reasons.

CruelCoin · 14-10-2015 01:05PM

efb wrote: »

So we can just say anything we want and people should believe it without proof?

This being a discussion forum and not a court of law, yes.

conorhal · 14-10-2015 01:05PM

efb wrote: »

I don't work for Minister Kelly or his department but an email to the department would get you that answer.

Well you seem so sure that he's on top of this that I just presumed you knew?

gandalf · 14-10-2015 01:06PM

brooke 2 wrote: »

GUBU! I don't blame the residents - from what I am reading here, they have had bad experiences with this particular group, in spite of the glowing reports which we have read about it in the papers.

TBH we Irish generally don't speak ill of the dead even or especially if that ill represents the truth.

brooke 2 · 14-10-2015 01:07PM

blackwhite wrote: »

Multiple incidents at the two sports clubs named above: break-ins to vehicles and to facilities (with perpetrators caught in the act), and more than one case of kids being threatened to hand over phones.

But of course, your knowledge of your own neighbours is much more relevant than anything from people who actually live in the Stepaside/Carrickmines/Kilternan area.

So, the question has to be asked, 'Why did the media paint them as 'idyllic neighbours'?' They could have just reported on the tragedy.

efb · 14-10-2015 01:08PM

conorhal wrote: »

Well you seem so sure that he's on top of this that I just presumed you knew?

He can be held to account if he isn't

efb · 14-10-2015 01:08PM

seamus wrote: »

OK, so then you're left with the local residents. They're entitled to object, right? And if their objections are based on first-hand experience of anti-social behaviour from the proposed new residents, then what's your problem?

Isn't their first-hand experience more valid than anything else, especially if you won't allow the council to speak to the Gardai?

Object in the correct manner

The Talking Bread · 14-10-2015 01:09PM

efb wrote: »

Yes, I live beside 2 halting sites, 1 official, 1 unofficial

2 now!!! It was one yesterday.................cant wait to read your situation come Friday.... 5? 6?

gandalf · 14-10-2015 01:10PM

efb wrote: »

Object in the correct manner

Plan in the correct manner

EazyD · 14-10-2015 01:11PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

So here then is a first hand eye witness report. Not hearsay or speculation.

Explains why the residents don't want these people moving in beside them.

We had a halting site spontaneously appear a number of years ago beside our estate, prior to a secondary school being built on the site. The place became a wasteland of rubbish, noise and houses being robbed every night. That is not an exaggeration whatsoever.

At the time I worked in the local shop and without fail everyday, the place would be fleeced by large groups of them. If I caught them there was nothing I could do (some of them were known to carry "tools" around), guards knew them by first names but could do sweet **** all about it.

Eventually when they were moved on things settled down and life became a lot more bearable living here and working.

The Talking Bread · 14-10-2015 01:12PM

efb wrote: »

Object in the correct manner

this is the only manner you can object if you understand how these sites work (which of course you do)

CatFromHue · 14-10-2015 01:14PM

400m down a small cul de sac is just not the place to put a halting site no matter how good or bad the inhabitants are.

SEPT 23 1989 · 14-10-2015 01:15PM

Council have assured local residents it will only be there for six months:rolleyes:

Fire at a halting site in Dublin *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Fire at a halting site in Dublin Mod Warning Post #1