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Fire at a halting site in Dublin *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Comments

  • #452
    valoren
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,707 ✭✭✭valoren


    Just an interesting observation for me.

    The Berkley Tragedy in June was reported here on 16th June at 12:16
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057447357
    4 days later, by 8.45am there were 1675 replies to the OP's post.

    This tragedy was reported on the 10th October at 08:13.
    4 days later at 8.27am there were 351 replies.


  • #453
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    efb wrote: »
    I apparently have to prove they aren't scumbags according to some here

    No but if im not allowed use hearsay then neither are you.
    efb wrote: »
    The witness was relayin non specific stories - not admissible

    Im sorry when did AH become a court of law?


  • #454
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    efb wrote: »
    Apologies if you hadn't - it was said earlier people are entitled to defend the value of their property.
    I wasn't directly responding to you.

    House prices is not a valid reason to leave someone homeless imho

    Well you quite clearly directed it at me to suit your agenda. I never accused the travellers of anything, I merely said the residents appear to have made their mind up based on PAST experiences with THIS group that they are not suitable to be squeezed down the bottom of their cul de sac. You are talking about charge sheets and courts etc. This isn't a criminal agenda. You are just twisting it because you cant fathom accepting that the residents may have a point.


  • #455
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    VinLieger wrote: »
    No but if im not allowed use hearsay then neither are you.



    Im sorry when did AH become a court of law?

    So we can just say anything we want and people should believe it without proof?


  • #456
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    Well you quite clearly directed it at me to suit your agenda. I never accused the travellers of anything, I merely said the residents appear to have made their mind up based on PAST experiences with THIS group that they are not suitable to be squeezed down the bottom of their cul de sac. You are talking about charge sheets and courts etc. This isn't a criminal agenda. You are just twisting it because you cant fathom accepting that the residents may have a point.

    What is their point? On what grounds is it not suitable???


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  • #457
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    I have to say, I had honestly always thought that the level of bad feeling towards travelers was exaggerated by many people.

    How wrong I was.


  • #458
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    I have to say, I had honestly always thought that the level of bad feeling towards travelers was exaggerated by many people.

    How wrong I was.

    It's unfathomable here


  • #459
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    efb wrote: »
    So we can just say anything we want and people should believe it without proof?

    Which you did exactly here
    efb wrote: »
    Do they know who is moving in? Very positive reports about the family directly affected by the fire


  • #460
    brooke 2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    I think the residents of the area where it is proposed to resettle the traveller families have been put in an impossible situation.

    The PC brigade and "liberal" media are already all over this. The use of emotional blackmail is pretty shameful.

    I'm sure most of those "outraged" have large enough back gardens to take in at least one traveller family.

    Did I hear correctly that the residents got only one hour's notice that the bulldozers were moving onto the site?


  • #461
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    brooke 2 wrote: »
    Did I hear correctly that the residents got only one hour's notice that the bulldozers were moving onto the site?

    Yup letter went in the door yesterday morning and diggers arrived 1-2 hours later


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  • #462
    blackwhite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,992 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    efb wrote: »
    Not everyone who disagrees with me is a bigot!

    Where is your evidence of the people being housed as Scumbags???

    Multiple incidents at the two sports clubs named above: break-ins to vehicles and to facilities (with perpetrators caught in the act), and more than one case of kids being threatened to hand over phones.


    But of course, your knowledge of your own neighbours is much more relevant than anything from people who actually live in the Stepaside/Carrickmines/Kilternan area.


  • #463
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,327 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    valoren wrote: »
    Just an interesting observation for me.

    The Berkley Tragedy in June was reported here on 16th June at 12:16
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057447357
    4 days later, by 8.45am there were 1675 replies to the OP's post.

    This tragedy was reported on the 10th October at 08:13.
    4 days later at 8.27am there were 351 replies.


    That's not that interesting.


  • #464
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    tbhtbh there are surely better places to locate them than at the end of a housing estate. Majority of people in those residents' position would object. I have complete sympathy and empathy but there apparently was travellers there before {same group i hear} who caused alot of disruption in the area.
    i am not saying whats right or wrong. just need to balance the argument



    ps i apologise if my info is wrong re previous habitants

    You never accused the travellers of anything???


  • #465
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    blackwhite wrote: »
    Multiple incidents at the two sports clubs named above: break-ins to vehicles and to facilities (with perpetrators caught in the act), and more than one case of kids being threatened to hand over phones.


    But of course, your knowledge of your own neighbours is much more relevant than anything from people who actually live in the Stepaside/Carrickmines/Kilternan area.

    And the same people who committed these offences are moving in???


  • #466
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Which you did exactly here

    You didn't accept it. I don't have to compel you to. But people are entitled to a presumption of innocence


  • #467
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    brooke 2 wrote: »
    Did I hear correctly that the residents got only one hour's notice that the bulldozers were moving onto the site?

    Don't let the facts get in the way of a PC BRIGADE story.....

    This is my main issue. The non consultation with the residents. It was ignorant, malicious and inevitably going to cause issues.

    I want those poor 15 people to find suitable accomodaton ASAP but just sticking a needle in a map and covering your ears and ignoring their would be neighbours isn't fair.

    That is the same with planning permission. People are given the right to object. Why are travellers treated differently.


  • #468
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    Don't let the facts get in the way of a PC BRIGADE story.....

    This is my main issue. The non consultation with the residents. It was ignorant, malicious and inevitably going to cause issues.

    I want those poor 15 people to find suitable accomodaton ASAP but just sticking a needle in a map and covering your ears and ignoring their would be neighbours isn't fair.

    That is the same with planning permission. People are given the right to object. Why are travellers treated differently.

    There are correct ways to object, not sticking cars in the way. And the reasons must be valid.


  • #469
    Bebopclown
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 137 ✭✭Bebopclown


    I used to work in the area near this site and I have dealt with some of the people affected by this fire first hand and I can tell you I wouldn't want them living anywhere near me. While I don't know all 15, the ones I do know made my life a living hell while working. It got to the point where I was terrified to go to work for fear that they would show up. I was also scared to leave for fear that they would be waiting for me. I don't know if I can / should go into specifics of things they would do but I personally ended up in theropy from my dealing with them. I was terrified and honestly felt relief when I left that job.


  • #470
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    efb wrote: »
    You didn't accept it. I don't have to compel you to. But people are entitled to a presumption of innocence
    Yep.

    And we have the presumption of innocence. But then we have multiple first hand accounts of antisocial behaviour from this group. And we have no counter evidence.

    Therefore any rational person would be inclined to conclude that this particular community of people are not particularly pleasant to live near.


  • #471
    recyclops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭recyclops


    efb wrote: »
    There are correct ways to object, not sticking cars in the way. And the reasons must be valid.

    Surely there are correct ways to rehouse/ relocate people and giving one hours notice and showing up on someones doorstep is not the correct way.

    both sides need to be treated equal in this matter and council failed to act that way resulting in a number of people being dragged into this mess and now vilified


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  • #472
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,873 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    efb wrote: »
    There are correct ways to object, not sticking cars in the way.

    And there are correct procedures that these things normally have to go through which weren't followed in this instance.
    efb wrote: »
    And the reasons must be valid.

    Devaluation of property. Increased traffic on roads. Visual amenity. Drainage.

    The residents haven't had the chance to submit any reasons, valid or otherwise, because the correct procedure wasn't followed.


  • #473
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    efb wrote: »
    There are correct ways to object, not sticking cars in the way. And the reasons must be valid.

    And there are correct ways to notify the residents 1-2 hours before construction begins is not one of them. Also its only reasonable to have some kind of objection/appeals period


  • #474
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Penn wrote: »
    And there are correct procedures that these things normally have to go through which weren't followed in this instance.



    Devaluation of property. Increased traffic on roads. Visual amenity. Drainage.

    The residents haven't had the chance to submit any reasons, valid or otherwise, because the correct procedure wasn't followed.

    Devaluation of property... thats delightful


  • #475
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    VinLieger wrote: »
    And there are correct ways to notify the residents 1-2 hours before construction begins is not one of them. Also its only reasonable to have some kind of objection/appeals period

    Im sure Minister Kelly's Department are aware of the correct procedures.


  • #476
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    seamus wrote: »
    Yep.

    And we have the presumption of innocence. But then we have multiple first hand accounts of antisocial behaviour from this group. And we have no counter evidence.

    Therefore any rational person would be inclined to conclude that this particular community of people are not particularly pleasant to live near.

    We have accounts in the paper of the families good reputation too.


  • #477
    brooke 2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    It seems to me they are judging these 15 on paspast experiences. They obviously have some knowledge that the Halo Brigade on this forum don't have. I am willing to give the residents the right to speak for themselves.

    It seems to me that very little respect has been shown to those residents who appear to live in quite modest houses. Would the Co Co have tried to move in the travellers to a site bordering on the residences of any of the politicians in the area? Shane Ross? Alan Shatter? Somehow, I doubt it!!


  • #478
    conorhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭conorhal


    efb wrote: »
    Im sure Minister Kelly's Department are aware of the correct procedures.

    Can you enlighten us as to what they are?


  • #479
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    efb wrote: »
    We have accounts in the paper of the families good reputation too.

    So that would be hearsay?


  • #480
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    conorhal wrote: »
    Can you enlighten us as to what they are?

    I don't work for Minister Kelly or his department but an email to the department would get you that answer.


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  • #481
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    efb wrote: »
    We have accounts in the paper of the families good reputation too.
    Are these the accounts written after the deaths - i.e. are they obituaries/homilies as opposed to character references? Were they written by local residents or by their friends and family?

    Perhaps the local Gardai should be asked for their opinion. I think that would be fair and impartial, what do you reckon?


This discussion has been closed.
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