Facebook paid £4,327 UK corporation tax in 2014

My name is URL · 12-10-2015 05:41PM

Alfonso Mammoth Wisecrack wrote: »

The stupidity of people who think risking tens of thousands of jobs (even if it is only a small risk) is beyond belief.

Right, because allowing corporations to hold sovereign states to ransom by not paying their fair share of tax and threatening to up and leave if forced to do so is so much more intelligent and sustainable.

Those companies will leave either way, just as countless others have done; whether they're required to pay the full rate of tax or not, as soon as it becomes economically viable to outsource operations to a country with enough graduates who speak the required language and are prepared to work for pittance.

Tarzana2 · 12-10-2015 05:41PM

Alfonso Mammoth Wisecrack wrote: »

The fact the jobs they create are extremely important to Ireland and they need to be kept well onside if that means favorable tax rates then so be it.

Enticing multinationals to your country with a low corporation tax rate/tax loopholes always seems a precarious strategy to me.

That can change quickly and then goodbye jobs.

awec · 12-10-2015 05:43PM

OneOfThem wrote: »

Would the bonuses not be taxed through the normal people taxing dealy? So if Bob gets a £50,000 bonus he'll have to give 52% of that to the Queen or whatever?

(Yes, I am in fact a fully qualified taxician, as you can tell by my snappy use of taxy jargon and firm understanding of how these things work above.)

Yes. Bonus is fully taxable, it's just added to your salary that month and taxed the same.

Shares are taxed as well, twice. You pay the tax when you receive the shares (same as other income) and you pay tax on any profit you make when you sell them (capital gains).

If you are awarded 100k in shares you will probably only ever see about 50k of that after they are awarded, and if you make 50k profit you pay tax on that (28% in UK, 33% in Ireland).

Eugene Norman · 12-10-2015 05:44PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Enticing multinationals to your country with a low corporation tax rate/tax loopholes always seems a precarious strategy to me.

That can change quickly and then goodbye jobs.

To where.

I think that there should be a global alignment on tax takes for sure. But when that happens companies will stay where they are, because why move?

Eugene Norman · 12-10-2015 05:45PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Right, because allowing corporations to hold sovereign states to ransom by not paying their fair share of tax and threatening to up and leave if forced to do so is so much more intelligent and sustainable.

Those companies will leave either way, just as countless others have done; whether they're required to pay the full rate of tax or not, as soon as it becomes economically viable to outsource operations to a country with enough graduates who speak the required language and are prepared to work for pittance.

Well, in fact to entice high skilled workers you don't pay a pittance.

Zebra3 · 12-10-2015 05:46PM

whatismyname wrote: »

Who are these people you are referring to?

(apart from the ones who are avoiding the large scale tax avoidance as obviously they'll think it's acceptable and good)

The ones posting in this thread completely unbothered about it or actually supporting it.

I would've thought it was obvious.

awec · 12-10-2015 05:49PM

whatismyname wrote: »

I think I would like to work for facebook. I don't really understand why their average salary is quite so high.

Don't look into the average too much. The majority of people did not pocket 200k + at Facebook last year.

There is likely a few executives who are skewing the figures.

My name is URL · 12-10-2015 05:52PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Well, in fact to entice high skilled workers you don't pay a pittance.

Well it's relative. What might be pittance to you or I could be a very high wage to someone fresh out of university in India, for example.

ygolometsipe · 12-10-2015 05:53PM

strelok wrote: »

how many hundreds of people do you employ?

Corporations should pay a fair amount of corporate tax.
The fact that they employ a large number of people is not relevant.

Unless they pay the appropriate amount of tax then they are guilty of robbing money right out of your pocket.

Eugene Norman · 12-10-2015 05:54PM

We need to move away from the uk tabloid version of where tax should be paid. However there should be some global equal corporation tax. This doesn't mean that you pay corporation tax on profits in every country you trade in however.

Do people think the profits from Grand Theft Auto, booked by Rockstar in Edinburgh are "funnelled back to the uk" to avoid the 35% tax in the US? Or is that where the IP is made, where the tax should be paid?

Eugene Norman · 12-10-2015 05:55PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Well it's relative. What might be pittance to you or I could be a very high wage to someone fresh out of university in India, for example.

What if they want the PHD graduate from Germany?

Nichard Dixon · 12-10-2015 06:03PM

Well if they paid out bonuses to staff, those staff paid 40% income tax (as they are better paid) and spent the money in the UK. If they hadn't paid out bonuses and had made a profit, then the corporation tax would have been 20% and the rest of the money would have gone to Facebook shareholders outside the UK. What is the problem here?

whatismyname · 12-10-2015 06:11PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

The ones posting in this thread completely unbothered about it or actually supporting it.

I would've thought it was obvious.

No, it was not obvious.

I saw barely anyone saying it was good or acceptable, so no.

whatismyname · 12-10-2015 06:14PM

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

Well if they paid out bonuses to staff, those staff paid 40% income tax (as they are better paid) and spent the money in the UK. If they hadn't paid out bonuses and had made a profit, then the corporation tax would have been 20% and the rest of the money would have gone to Facebook shareholders outside the UK. What is the problem here?

Agreed. Part of how it is being interpreted / reported isn't quite right.

Comparing the corporation tax a company paid, to the income tax that an individual does.

And yes with their average staff's salaries at £210k, a lot of income tax would have been paid on those salaries, so although only a pittance was paid by them via corporation tax due to so little profit after paying these big salaries, a lot of tax would have been still paid on their revenues through income tax paid by their employees.

I still find this that I quoted from an article in an earlier post concerning though:

The analysis shows profits generated in the UK were sent to Facebook's international headquarters in Ireland, before being transferred to an account in the Cayman Islands, who do not collect corporation tax.

Last week the OECD unveiled new measures to stop large companies from exploiting loopholes in the international tax system.

The new rules will make it harder for Facebook, Google and Apple to shift profits and will force multinationals to disclose how much revenue they generate in each country.

Margaret Hodge, former chair of the Commons Public Accounts Committee, told the Daily Mail Facebook was 'still refusing to listen to the voice of public opinion' adding that the company was 'using elaborate corporate structures and artificial devices for no purpose other than to avoid tax'.

Tarzana2 · 12-10-2015 06:18PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

To where.

I think that there should be a global alignment on tax takes for sure. But when that happens companies will stay where they are, because why move?

As said above, to burgeoning economies with plenty of graduates who can speak English and will work for nothing. And these foreign graduates will have other languages too. Bonus. Ireland isn't a special snowflake.

the evasion_kid · 12-10-2015 06:22PM

Plenty of empty facilities\warehouses around were I live were the company came in did their 5 years and took off to a country with cheap labour..Motorola,gateway,celestica to think of a few.

Eugene Norman · 12-10-2015 06:44PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

As said above, to burgeoning economies with plenty of graduates who can speak English and will work for nothing. And these foreign graduates will have other languages too. Bonus. Ireland isn't a special snowflake.

But that's exactly what I am disputing. Why would Silicon Valley exist if high salaries were so appalling to software companies?

You're not going to attract worldwide talent without high salaries by world standards. Indian companies are setting up in Ireland.

Eugene Norman · 12-10-2015 06:45PM

the evasion_kid wrote: »

Plenty of empty facilities\warehouses around were I live were the company came in did their 5 years and took off to a country with cheap labour..Motorola,gateway,celestica to think of a few.

Not high skilled.

Tarzana2 · 12-10-2015 07:13PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

But that's exactly what I am disputing. Why would Silicon Valley exist if high salaries were so appalling to software companies?

Silicon Valley is its own special world. It attracts the best of the best. Silicon Valley IS a special snowflake. Ireland ain't no Silicon Valley. :pac:

12-10-2015 07:30PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

As said above, to burgeoning economies with plenty of graduates who can speak English and will work for nothing. And these foreign graduates will have other languages too. Bonus. Ireland isn't a special snowflake.

Worked out well for Ulster bank.

Ireland is actually pretty special, the combination of highly skilled graduates, the willingness of highly skilled people to come here from abroad and live here, our low corporate tax rates, our closeness in distance and not too far off in time zone from the US which helps with both travel and latency on internet connections, the fact we speak English and plenty more reasons.

karma_ · 12-10-2015 07:35PM

Boring username wrote: »

Rabble rabble 1% fat cats rabble water charges Mick Wallace rabble rabble Denis O Brien rabble rabble kill the rich.

Am I doing this right?

Yup, ye have the standard libertarian arrogance down to a tee.

joebloggs32 · 12-10-2015 07:38PM

kjl wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34504474

Is this actually a joke? They basically used corporate loophole by paying employee bonuses so they could declare a 28 million pre tax less.

I think it's time that corporations stop getting a free ride in Europe, it's an utter joke that I have to play 52% of my salary in taxes when these corporations are getting off scot free.

Put this in perspective, I payed about 5 times what Facebook did in taxes in 2014.

Thinly veiled I earn 100k a year thread.

Tarzana2 · 12-10-2015 07:40PM

Alfonso Mammoth Wisecrack wrote: »

Worked out well for Ulster bank.

Ireland is actually pretty special, the combination of highly skilled graduates, the willingness of highly skilled people to come here from abroad and live here, our low corporate tax rates, our closeness in distance and not too far off in time zone from the US which helps with both travel and latency on internet connections, the fact we speak English and plenty more reasons.

Actually, American multinationals have highlighted the poor quality of our graduates in the recent past. Will find links later.

Eugene Norman · 12-10-2015 07:42PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Silicon Valley is its own special world. It attracts the best of the best. Silicon Valley IS a special snowflake. Ireland ain't no Silicon Valley. :pac:

The same criteria apples to Europe. For high skilled Europeans unprepared to go to the US but prepared to travel where do you go? To Belarus or Ireland.

The same criteria applies within India or the software industry would flee Bangalore for Calcutta.

Eugene Norman · 12-10-2015 07:43PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Actually, American multinationals have highlighted the poor quality of our graduates in the recent past. Will find links later.

Yes, but that's fairly recent. During the boom the quality of students doing IT plummeted. Science too. The money was elsewhere, irelands boom conincided with the post Web 1.0 bust. Anecdotally that's changing.

But there are other reasons as Nx001 opined. And invested capital is sticky. A manufacturing plant might go to Poland in the hope of hiring Poles but if you want access to high skilled European talent you can't go to Poland and pay polish wages.

If you can get away with polish graduates then it would be fine. By and large you need to attract more than just the locals though.

kjl · 12-10-2015 07:46PM

davo2001 wrote: »

You recently commented in this thread "Have you ever lied on your C.V?" and admitted lying so sorry if i don't take you at face value ;-)

clearly you didn't read what I wrote.

kjl · 12-10-2015 07:56PM

Alfonso Mammoth Wisecrack wrote: »

The stupidity of people who think risking tens of thousands of jobs is a wise course of action (even if it is only a small risk) is beyond belief. Thankfully the powers that be know this and have no intention of any big increase in corporation tax and will fight any crap from Europe to the end.

If corporations paid their fair share, then income tax would be reduced which would mean more money in the economy which in turn will create more jobs.

This kind of thinking is just moronic. It's not fair that a corporation can make billions pay minimal tax and hoard the money while the good people of Ireland pay debt that isn't theirs.

The multinational have a lot invested in Ireland, we are positioned well in europe, we have educated workers. If they increased corporation tax there will not be some mass exit like you think. Most corporations have 1000's of offices all around the world and are not just going to leave because the cost of business goes up.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 12-10-2015 07:57PM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Surely the important figure is how much Corporation Tax they paid globally? It's possible their UK operations could make a loss while their Irish or US operations made a profit, or example. Usually the likes of Facebook declare a lot of their profits in Ireland and losses elsewhere.

This is it completely.

Their EU HQ is here, and USA HQ would be the main operation.

Who cares what they pay in the UK. The title is clickbait.

kjl · 12-10-2015 08:06PM

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Thinly veiled I earn 100k a year thread.

What I earn is not relevant, I pay my taxes and what do I get for it? Nothing.

I've never needed anything from the government, I went to private school, I have private health insurance and the Guardi have never been more than an annoyance for me. Tell me how I am benefiting paying 52% of my salary.

karma_ · 12-10-2015 08:07PM

kjl wrote: »

What I earn is not relevant, I pay my taxes and what do I get for it? Nothing.

I've never needed anything from the government, I went to private school, I have private health insurance and the Guardi have never been more than an annoyance for me. Tell me how I am benefiting paying 52% of my salary.

You never had to go to a state school, you have never needed state help for your health and the fuzz never bothered you and here you are saying you have NEVER benefited.

Jesus.

Facebook paid £4,327 UK corporation tax in 2014

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