Facebook paid £4,327 UK corporation tax in 2014

kjl

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34504474

Is this actually a joke? They basically used corporate loophole by paying employee bonuses so they could declare a 28 million pre tax less.

I think it's time that corporations stop getting a free ride in Europe, it's an utter joke that I have to play 52% of my salary in taxes when these corporations are getting off scot free.

Put this in perspective, I payed about 5 times what Facebook did in taxes in 2014.

strelok

how many hundreds of people do you employ?

AnonoBoy

Well it's more than you paid in UK corporation tax I'll bet!

ColeTrain

Facebook paid out billions last year when people 'liked' pictures of Syrian children and other stuff like that!

Easy man, go easy on them.

OneOfThem

Would the bonuses not be taxed through the normal people taxing dealy? So if Bob gets a £50,000 bonus he'll have to give 52% of that to the Queen or whatever?

(Yes, I am in fact a fully qualified taxician, as you can tell by my snappy use of taxy jargon and firm understanding of how these things work above.)

Son Of A Vidic

strelok wrote: »

how many hundreds of people do you employ?

Completely irrelevant since the level of employment and the economic return on same. Is completely out of sync with the billions in taxes they avoid paying.

kjl

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Well it's more than you paid in UK corporation tax I'll bet!

Well I consult in the UK, so actually it's less/

AnonoBoy

kjl wrote: »

Well I consult in the UK, so actually it's less/

Well aren't you the spoilsport?

callaway92

Many companies pay barely any if any at all.

I'd love to know how much Apple/Facebook/Amazon/Google/Microsoft pay in Corporation Tax.

They hold the Government by puppet strings. They Government can't afford to lose them due to all of the potential job losses - Therefore if Apple say "we are upping ship and moving to India unless out corporation tax is reduced dramatically", the Government have no choice but to cave.

jamesbere

If we get 10000 likes Facebook will pay tax

darkpagandeath

strelok wrote: »

how many hundreds of people do you employ?

What's that got to do with tax obligations ?

darkpagandeath

ColeTrain wrote: »

Facebook paid out billions last year when people 'liked' pictures of Syrian children and other stuff like that!

Easy man, go easy on them.

Ah I see that's how it is, Instead of paying tax obligations. They use the money to tie themselves to the hot button issues and gather more revenue.

Saipanne

Some amount of manure in this thread.

darkpagandeath

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What's that got to do with tax obligations ?

The fact the jobs they create are extremely important to Ireland and they need to be kept well onside if that means favorable tax rates then so be it.

darkpagandeath

Alfonso Mammoth Wisecrack wrote: »

The fact the jobs they create are extremely important to Ireland and they need to be kept well onside.

And again I will ask What does that have to do with Tax obligations ? EU is taking a very dim view of what's going on here. Already had to change the law.

davo2001

kjl wrote: »

Well I consult in the UK, so actually it's less/

You recently commented in this thread "Have you ever lied on your C.V?" and admitted lying so sorry if i don't take you at face value ;-)

Duggy747

Dear Facebook,

This is a formal notification to say that you are not allowed to take any of my personal information like what I ate for dinner and pictures with inspirational quotes.

I know this is a free service you provide to me and I post up all of my information at my own discretion that also ends up making me the product but, like, you know.............stop it.

I also hereby state that you must pay your taxes. Like, all of them.

Copy & Paste this to your status so that Facebook will be forced BY LAW to do what you say.

valoren

It's the morals of it.

So, yeah, your latest plan to generate revenue backfires and you lose out a couple of million.
The share price takes a hit and the company is valued a bit less but you don't pay taxes on a loss as that's immoral.

But, alternatively, the revenue generator make millions, the share price increase, but the taxman through some 'creative' accounting only get's £4,327.

whatismyname

I think I would like to work for facebook. I don't really understand why their average salary is quite so high.

Staff at Facebook’s UK arm took home an average of more than £210,000 last year in pay and bonuses

The share scheme was worth an average of more than £96,000 for each member of staff. Once salaries were taken into account, a British employee of Facebook received more than £210,000 on average.

http://www.theguardian.com/global/2015/oct/11/facebook-paid-4327-corporation-tax-despite-35-million-staff-bonuses

I don't really get the comparing the amount of corporation tax a company paid, with the amount of income tax an individual paid.

Like on http://www.itv.com/news/2015-10-11/facebook-pays-4-327-in-uk-corporation-tax/

£5,393 Amount of income tax and national insurance paid by a British worker on the average wage of £26,500
£4,327 Amount Facebook paid in UK corporation tax last year.

It's not comparing like with like. The amount of corporation tax a company pays (large corporation or otherwise) isn't really comparable with the amount of income tax an individual pays, and if they're going to use those as a comparision, then it surely should be acknowledging that facebook's employees will be paying (quite a lot of) income tax on their £210k salaries. So it's not like the tax man will actually be getting as little as £4.3k in tax from facebook's UK revenues.

Boring username

Rabble rabble 1% fat cats rabble water charges Mick Wallace rabble rabble Denis O Brien rabble rabble kill the rich.



Am I doing this right?

ArmaniJeanss

Presumably like any above board business they are paying to the taxman the ~20% VAT from all revenues that they are collecting from their sales regardless of profit/loss, and this figure dramatically dwarfs the tiny amount they are avoiding in corporation tax.
So its really not a big deal, no-one declares a profit if they can help it.

whatismyname

Ok, this is sh1t.

The analysis shows profits generated in the UK were sent to Facebook's international headquarters in Ireland, before being transferred to an account in the Cayman Islands, who do not collect corporation tax.

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-10-11/facebook-pays-4-327-in-uk-corporation-tax/

Last week the OECD unveiled new measures to stop large companies from exploiting loopholes in the international tax system.

The new rules will make it harder for Facebook, Google and Apple to shift profits and will force multinationals to disclose how much revenue they generate in each country.

Margaret Hodge, former chair of the Commons Public Accounts Committee, told the Daily Mail Facebook was 'still refusing to listen to the voice of public opinion' adding that the company was 'using elaborate corporate structures and artificial devices for no purpose other than to avoid tax'.

My name is URL

Boring username wrote: »

Rabble rabble 1% fat cats rabble water charges Mick Wallace rabble rabble Denis O Brien rabble rabble kill the rich.



Am I doing this right?

Being a low level troll? Yes, you're on the right track

suicide_circus

Well when you have corporations which now wield more power and influence than elected governments this is inevitable. Profit is king.

Zebra3

The stupidity of people in thinking large scale tax avoidance by MNCs is acceptable or good is beyond belief.

whatismyname

Zebra3 wrote: »

The stupidity of people in thinking large scale tax avoidance by MNCs is acceptable or good is beyond belief.

Who are these people you are referring to?

(apart from the ones who are avoiding the large scale tax avoidance as obviously they'll think it's acceptable and good)

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

The stupidity of people in thinking large scale tax avoidance by MNCs is acceptable or good is beyond belief.

The stupidity of people who think risking tens of thousands of jobs is a wise course of action (even if it is only a small risk) is beyond belief. Thankfully the powers that be know this and have no intention of any big increase in corporation tax and will fight any crap from Europe to the end.

Dyr

Alfonso Mammoth Wisecrack wrote: »

The stupidity of people who think risking tens of thousands of jobs is a wise course of action (even if it is only a small risk) is beyond belief. Thankfully the powers that be know this and have no intention of any big increase in corporation tax and will fight any crap from Europe to the end.

Facebook employs tens of thousands in the UK

Tax is for the little people is the message here, so fcuk that

Eugene Norman

If Facebook did in fact pay £210k per employee then it may not have had uk profits.

As for the transferring to Ireland and then to caymans, the former may not be an issue, the latter is.

The fact is that corporations pay corporate tax in their headquarters not where profits are made. Any other system would be nuts for smaller countries.

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

Facebook employs tens of thousands in the UK

Tax is for the little people is the message here, so fcuk that

Multinationals in general and I'm talking about Ireland (even though I know this article refers to the UK).

A Primal Nut

Surely the important figure is how much Corporation Tax they paid globally? It's possible their UK operations could make a loss while their Irish or US operations made a profit, or example. Usually the likes of Facebook declare a lot of their profits in Ireland and losses elsewhere.

My name is URL

Alfonso Mammoth Wisecrack wrote: »

The stupidity of people who think risking tens of thousands of jobs (even if it is only a small risk) is beyond belief.

Right, because allowing corporations to hold sovereign states to ransom by not paying their fair share of tax and threatening to up and leave if forced to do so is so much more intelligent and sustainable.

Those companies will leave either way, just as countless others have done; whether they're required to pay the full rate of tax or not, as soon as it becomes economically viable to outsource operations to a country with enough graduates who speak the required language and are prepared to work for pittance.

Tarzana2

Alfonso Mammoth Wisecrack wrote: »

The fact the jobs they create are extremely important to Ireland and they need to be kept well onside if that means favorable tax rates then so be it.

Enticing multinationals to your country with a low corporation tax rate/tax loopholes always seems a precarious strategy to me.

That can change quickly and then goodbye jobs.

awec

OneOfThem wrote: »

Would the bonuses not be taxed through the normal people taxing dealy? So if Bob gets a £50,000 bonus he'll have to give 52% of that to the Queen or whatever?

(Yes, I am in fact a fully qualified taxician, as you can tell by my snappy use of taxy jargon and firm understanding of how these things work above.)

Yes. Bonus is fully taxable, it's just added to your salary that month and taxed the same.

Shares are taxed as well, twice. You pay the tax when you receive the shares (same as other income) and you pay tax on any profit you make when you sell them (capital gains).

If you are awarded 100k in shares you will probably only ever see about 50k of that after they are awarded, and if you make 50k profit you pay tax on that (28% in UK, 33% in Ireland).

Eugene Norman

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Enticing multinationals to your country with a low corporation tax rate/tax loopholes always seems a precarious strategy to me.

That can change quickly and then goodbye jobs.

To where.

I think that there should be a global alignment on tax takes for sure. But when that happens companies will stay where they are, because why move?

Eugene Norman

My name is URL wrote: »

Right, because allowing corporations to hold sovereign states to ransom by not paying their fair share of tax and threatening to up and leave if forced to do so is so much more intelligent and sustainable.

Those companies will leave either way, just as countless others have done; whether they're required to pay the full rate of tax or not, as soon as it becomes economically viable to outsource operations to a country with enough graduates who speak the required language and are prepared to work for pittance.

Well, in fact to entice high skilled workers you don't pay a pittance.

Zebra3

whatismyname wrote: »

Who are these people you are referring to?

(apart from the ones who are avoiding the large scale tax avoidance as obviously they'll think it's acceptable and good)

The ones posting in this thread completely unbothered about it or actually supporting it.

I would've thought it was obvious.

awec

whatismyname wrote: »

I think I would like to work for facebook. I don't really understand why their average salary is quite so high.

Don't look into the average too much. The majority of people did not pocket 200k + at Facebook last year.

There is likely a few executives who are skewing the figures.

My name is URL

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Well, in fact to entice high skilled workers you don't pay a pittance.

Well it's relative. What might be pittance to you or I could be a very high wage to someone fresh out of university in India, for example.

ygolometsipe

strelok wrote: »

how many hundreds of people do you employ?

Corporations should pay a fair amount of corporate tax.
The fact that they employ a large number of people is not relevant.

Unless they pay the appropriate amount of tax then they are guilty of robbing money right out of your pocket.

Eugene Norman

We need to move away from the uk tabloid version of where tax should be paid. However there should be some global equal corporation tax. This doesn't mean that you pay corporation tax on profits in every country you trade in however.

Do people think the profits from Grand Theft Auto, booked by Rockstar in Edinburgh are "funnelled back to the uk" to avoid the 35% tax in the US? Or is that where the IP is made, where the tax should be paid?

Eugene Norman

My name is URL wrote: »

Well it's relative. What might be pittance to you or I could be a very high wage to someone fresh out of university in India, for example.

What if they want the PHD graduate from Germany?

Nichard Dixon

Well if they paid out bonuses to staff, those staff paid 40% income tax (as they are better paid) and spent the money in the UK. If they hadn't paid out bonuses and had made a profit, then the corporation tax would have been 20% and the rest of the money would have gone to Facebook shareholders outside the UK. What is the problem here?

whatismyname

Zebra3 wrote: »

The ones posting in this thread completely unbothered about it or actually supporting it.

I would've thought it was obvious.

No, it was not obvious.

I saw barely anyone saying it was good or acceptable, so no.

whatismyname

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

Well if they paid out bonuses to staff, those staff paid 40% income tax (as they are better paid) and spent the money in the UK. If they hadn't paid out bonuses and had made a profit, then the corporation tax would have been 20% and the rest of the money would have gone to Facebook shareholders outside the UK. What is the problem here?

Agreed. Part of how it is being interpreted / reported isn't quite right.

Comparing the corporation tax a company paid, to the income tax that an individual does.

And yes with their average staff's salaries at £210k, a lot of income tax would have been paid on those salaries, so although only a pittance was paid by them via corporation tax due to so little profit after paying these big salaries, a lot of tax would have been still paid on their revenues through income tax paid by their employees.

I still find this that I quoted from an article in an earlier post concerning though:

The analysis shows profits generated in the UK were sent to Facebook's international headquarters in Ireland, before being transferred to an account in the Cayman Islands, who do not collect corporation tax.

Last week the OECD unveiled new measures to stop large companies from exploiting loopholes in the international tax system.

The new rules will make it harder for Facebook, Google and Apple to shift profits and will force multinationals to disclose how much revenue they generate in each country.

Margaret Hodge, former chair of the Commons Public Accounts Committee, told the Daily Mail Facebook was 'still refusing to listen to the voice of public opinion' adding that the company was 'using elaborate corporate structures and artificial devices for no purpose other than to avoid tax'.

Tarzana2

Eugene Norman wrote: »

To where.

I think that there should be a global alignment on tax takes for sure. But when that happens companies will stay where they are, because why move?

As said above, to burgeoning economies with plenty of graduates who can speak English and will work for nothing. And these foreign graduates will have other languages too. Bonus. Ireland isn't a special snowflake.

the evasion_kid

Plenty of empty facilities\warehouses around were I live were the company came in did their 5 years and took off to a country with cheap labour..Motorola,gateway,celestica to think of a few.

Eugene Norman

Tarzana2 wrote: »

As said above, to burgeoning economies with plenty of graduates who can speak English and will work for nothing. And these foreign graduates will have other languages too. Bonus. Ireland isn't a special snowflake.

But that's exactly what I am disputing. Why would Silicon Valley exist if high salaries were so appalling to software companies?

You're not going to attract worldwide talent without high salaries by world standards. Indian companies are setting up in Ireland.

Eugene Norman

the evasion_kid wrote: »

Plenty of empty facilities\warehouses around were I live were the company came in did their 5 years and took off to a country with cheap labour..Motorola,gateway,celestica to think of a few.

Not high skilled.

Tarzana2

Eugene Norman wrote: »

But that's exactly what I am disputing. Why would Silicon Valley exist if high salaries were so appalling to software companies?

Silicon Valley is its own special world. It attracts the best of the best. Silicon Valley IS a special snowflake. Ireland ain't no Silicon Valley. :pac:

Tarzana2

Tarzana2 wrote: »

As said above, to burgeoning economies with plenty of graduates who can speak English and will work for nothing. And these foreign graduates will have other languages too. Bonus. Ireland isn't a special snowflake.

Worked out well for Ulster bank.

Ireland is actually pretty special, the combination of highly skilled graduates, the willingness of highly skilled people to come here from abroad and live here, our low corporate tax rates, our closeness in distance and not too far off in time zone from the US which helps with both travel and latency on internet connections, the fact we speak English and plenty more reasons.