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legend or not ???

13

Comments

  • #62
    entropi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,731 ✭✭✭✭entropi


    Liamario wrote: »
    I'm very interested in the psychology of the case. This is a common fantasy amongst teenagers, but obviously the reality has had a negative impact on this kid. Why is that? Why has his confidence been shattered?
    He realised that child abuse and consensual sex as adults are two completely different things. She took advantage, lulled him in to a false sense of reality and she should be jailed along with any other child abuser.


  • #63
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Liamario wrote: »
    Do you think that it was a maturity (he wasn't emotionally ready) thing and he found himself out of his depth?


    I think he definitely found himself out of his depth. I can understand why he might have thought it seemed like a good idea at the time, but the teacher herself should have known better, it was her duty to restrain herself. I remember when I was a similar age to the boy, I was 17 at the time and the teacher I was pursuing was 23. She put the skids on any hope I had of an intimate relationship between us. I was gutted at the time of course, but now I'm an adult myself obviously I can see that I put her in a very awkward position (no pun intended). I'm actually glad she turned me down as I wasn't and wouldn't have been ready for an adult relationship for a few years yet, because I wasn't an adult at the time.


  • #64
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Would those males have sex with a 15 year old?

    I have no idea. What's your point? MY point is the perpetuation of double standards when it comes to sexual crimes more often than not comes from a male place. Just as those antiquated laws on same in Ireland were brought into effect in more patriarchal times. You seem to be making this an anti-feminist issue and that doesn't really hold up.


  • #65
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    You did. If one argues that it is nonsense that "any case" be judged so, then they're arguing that no case is. And I showed you cases where, black and white, the gender of the perpetrator alone is the deciding factor.

    Please stop trying to piss on us and tell us it's raining.


    I'm not trying to piss on anyone here, I pointed out that a claim was nonsense, and gave an example of a case where the man was not given a lengthy prison sentence in similar circumstances to the case in the opening post. That was all.

    So no case, but excluding the law in that case? Heh. Seriously, you're going through some serious acrobatics here to cover your ass.


    I'm not going through any acrobatics, I'm pointing out to you that I never claimed what you're trying to say I claimed so that you can argue against that, instead of arguing against what I actually said.

    Why? Because you say so? Another caveat because your claim turned out to be nonsense?


    No, not just because I say so, but because if the discussion is to be of any use, it's best to use similar examples as possible rather than bring in all sorts of irrelevant nonsense that either of us could use to make our points.

    Look - you said something that was rubbish. You got called out. Be a big boy and take it.


    I pointed out that what a previous poster had said was untrue, and you introduced something else entirely. That wasn't calling me out on anything I'd actually said, so there's no need for me to take anything?


  • #66
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    Mod

    Good stuff, can we get back on topic please.


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  • #67
    TravellerOg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭TravellerOg


    I shouldn't have said anything ey..


  • #68
    Paramite Pie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    Aidan Holland wrote: »
    Personally if it was me and I was having sex with a hot teacher at 15 it would be amazing along as she did not get pregnant.

    Well she lied to him and told him she was pregnant to use that as leverage over him to manipulate him, apparently. Does that sound amazing?

    Ditch the fantasy and face up to the reality. Many teen girls fantasize about boyband members -- does that mean it'd be harmless for Harry Styles to f*ck a 15 year old girl?

    Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice - right..... right..............?


  • #69
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Paramite Pie wrote: »
    When I was a 15yr old I had a crush on a male teacher who was 26(ish). Would it have been okay for us to have sex in your eyes? We're both male.

    Genuine question.

    In a word no. But in reality it's not all that black and white.

    Everyone had a crush on one or more of their teachers. Some kids mature faster than others and so on. Maybe you could have handled it, maybe you couldn't - who knows but you.
    It's not like in any persons reality there was a day marked on a calendar somewhere and before that day they were a child and after it an adult, but legally there is exactly such a day. It's hard to legislate around such vague concepts as maturity.
    The laws we have are in place to protect those who can't handle it, they are maybe a bit harsh on those who could but, I think, that's a small price to pay in the scheme of things for the protection of our kids from possible predation.

    Personally speaking though, as a 15 year old, I still would have jumped at the chance though - there's no point saying otherwise, I'd just be lying to say anything else. In fact- Ms Keating, if you're reading this - call me, it's not to late for us:D


  • #70
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    osarusan wrote: »
    Terrible sentence handed down.


    What sentence do you think would be appropriate?
    She's hardly a sexual predator who is a "danger to society". A custodial sentence wouldn't achieve much and if you are going to bandy about the "Make an example of her! Throw away the key to deter others!" nonsense, well that's not how the law works.

    In the eyes of the law she had sex with a minor but the law can't really be black and white in cases like this.
    She kissed him, he kissed her back, passion took over and logic and rationale were thrown out the window.

    I don't really understand his complaints about not having any confidence anymore. I don't think he's suffering from any kind of trauma. I think he's feeling the symptoms of love-lorn heartbreak and doesn't quite understand it.


  • #71
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    Whitewinged wrote: »
    Maybe if you experienced that it would be very different. She is in a position of power and there is no balance. A 15 year old is at a delicate age, with hormones and self esteem and she was exploiting that. He should not have to be dealing with the pressures of an adult relationship, and I mean mainly the mental pressures and expectations.

    She wasn't really in a position of power. She was an assistant who happened to be a grown woman. In my eyes she's still just a girl since I am older. In his eyes she's a woman. She could just as easily have seduced him if she was a sales girl in a shop and he was buying a pair of jeans. Would she have been in a position of "power" then? Come on! People ought to stop dramatising things


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  • #72
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    TravellerOg wrote: »
    At 15 years old in this day & age, young boys are young boys and IMO, I believe they know what they are doing, especially after 50 times.

    In saying that, it's worrying that a woman is resorting to a 15 year old for sexual pleasure. If the shoe was on the other foot, a man would be labelled a paedophile and on the sex offenders list as well as a long stint in prison. Suppose it goes to show how messed up the system is.

    Where do you draw the line...?

    But the shoe ISN'T on the other foot and a comparison can't be made. This is a completely different situation to a adult male seducing a 15 year-old girl. Although I'm not as quick to label every guy who has sex with a girl who is under the age of consent a paedophile like so many people.

    So how does it go to show "how messed up the system is"? What does that cliche even mean?


  • #73
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,772 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    asherbassad wrote: »
    She's hardly a sexual predator who is a "danger to society".
    Your professional opinion?
    She kissed him, he kissed her back, passion took over and logic and rationale were thrown out the window.
    So you believe that 'I got carried away' is an acceptable defense in rape cases?
    I don't think he's suffering from any kind of trauma. I think he's feeling the symptoms of love-lorn heartbreak and doesn't quite understand it.
    More professional opinion, I see.


  • #74
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,772 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    asherbassad wrote: »
    This is a completely different situation to a adult male seducing a 15 year-old girl.
    Explain why.


  • #75
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Regardless of how attractive this woman is or how good it is perceived for the boy, she's a paedophile. Has she been signed on the sex offenders register?

    She's not a fucking paedophile FFS. Look up the definition.

    "paed" relates to children...you know, infants, toddlers, prepubescents. Hence the term Paediatrics.

    "phile" is the suffix for "attracted to"

    The guy in this story obviously has fully functioning sexual organs or she wouldn't have been able to have sex with him. Technically he's a man although still not quite mentally mature.

    So please, less with the paedophile nonsense.


  • #76
    booooring!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭booooring!


    I would have jumping at the chance at 15 of banging her.

    But unfortunately some people are still sweet and innocent at that age so a jail sentence would have been right. If the gender was swapped the male teacher would have been sent to prison.


  • #77
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    Whitewinged wrote: »
    So you think 15 year old boys in this day and age "know what they are doing" in these circumstances therefore do you not believe that she should be labelled a pedophile and put on the sex offenders list?

    What is your obsession with these knee-jerk reactions and utter aversion to taking a deep breath and thinking rationally about the situation.

    Why do you want her to be labelled a paedophile and placed on the sex offenders register? Why? She's isn't a fcuking paedophile and she's not some kind of sexual predator? Do you think she's a danger to little kids everywhere and people should be alerted if she moves into the area? Should her life and career be destroyed just because you want it to be?


  • #78
    Whitewinged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Whitewinged


    asherbassad wrote: »
    She wasn't really in a position of power. She was an assistant who happened to be a grown woman. In my eyes she's still just a girl since I am older. In his eyes she's a woman. She could just as easily have seduced him if she was a sales girl in a shop and he was buying a pair of jeans. Would she have been in a position of "power" then? Come on! People ought to stop dramatising things

    Her age gives her a position of power. When you are younger, you have a certain amount of trust for older people and dont expect them to take advantage of you. She was manipulating him by pretending she was pregnant and trying to get him to run away with her. That kind of confusion and pressure on him would have an impact.

    Im not dramatising it. If anything you are playing it down because you dont understand it. You say that he is just feeling the effects of a "love-lorn heartbreak" and that he just doesnt understand it yet you expect him to be able to understand a woman manipulating him and guilt tripping him into a situation that he is not experiened or emotionally prepared for.


  • #79
    booooring!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 261 ✭✭booooring!


    Whitewinged wrote: »
    Her age gives her a position of power. When you are younger, you have a certain amount of trust for older people and dont expect them to take advantage of you. She was manipulating him by pretending she was pregnant and trying to get him to run away with her. That kind of confusion and pressure on him would have an impact.

    Im not dramatising it. If anything you are playing it down because you dont understand it. You say that he is just feeling the effects of a "love-lorn heartbreak" and that he just doesnt understand it yet you expect him to be able to understand a woman manipulating him and guilt tripping him into a situation that he is not experiened or emotionally prepared for.

    If he believed all that at 15 he's a ****in idiot.


  • #80
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Each case really has to be judged on it's merits tbf..

    When I was 13 I kissed my best friend's older sister, and he kissed her best friend. She asked me to sleep in her bed but I had only been given permission to attend the party until midnight and so I pegged it around to my mother to BEG her to let me stay in my mates. I had just seen this girl (18-19) in her bikini and I was insane for her, to say the least. Was refused permission and so sulked up to bed. When I was 15/16 I was in Spain and in a nightclub called Fame I met an older girl and we went back to her place and.. wowzers. Turns out she was in her 20s. Still have a photo of her. She was from Bath and gorgeous.

    Now, do I feel I was effected by the latter experience? Not a chance. One of the highlights of my life. On my deathbed I will think of those two weeks in Spain. Could it have been negative? I suppose if she came looking for me and said she was pregnant maybe but part of me also thinks that might have not have been the worst thing in the world. Did kissing the 18-19 year old sister of my friend effect me negatively? I don't think so. She was the image of Demi Moore in About Last Night. Could it have done? Oh for sure. Had I slept with her that night, she would have had me in the palm of her hand as I knew nothing of girls and yeah, I guess it could have confused me.

    My whole thing with these sort of situations is that whatever punishment is deemed worthy, then it should be consistent. Be they male or female, they should be treated the same by the courts. That is the biggest issue I have with this tbh. This woman was in a position of power and I think such people should be treated differently and more harshly given the power dynamic involved. Age exceptions should also be taken into consideration for sure also.


  • #81
    Whitewinged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Whitewinged


    asherbassad wrote: »
    What is your obsession with these knee-jerk reactions and utter aversion to taking a deep breath and thinking rationally about the situation.

    Why do you want her to be labelled a paedophile and placed on the sex offenders register? Why? She's isn't a fcuking paedophile and she's not some kind of sexual predator? Do you think she's a danger to little kids everywhere and people should be alerted if she moves into the area? Should her life and career be destroyed just because you want it to be?

    What are you on about? I was replying to a post by travellor og who said that in his opinion boys of 15 in this day and age are able to handle that kind of situation then in his second paragraph he goes on to question what he believes to be an unjust difference in how a man would be treated by the law after commiting the same crime.

    my point was that if he doesnt believe that boys of 15 are effected by this then why would he question the law seeing it as different? Why would he want the woman punished if he doesnt believe the boy is a victim.

    If he doesnt believe that boys are effected by it then why would he be shocked if the woman was treated differently in court to a man. Unless he also believes that girls of 15 "in this day and age" are equally uneffected by a similar situation. His issue then would not be the difference in gender treatment by the law but he wouldnt agree with the actual law in place.

    I was questioning his views because they seemed contradictory and i wanted him to clarify.


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  • #82
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    Paramite Pie wrote: »
    When I was a 15yr old I had a crush on a male teacher who was 26(ish). Would it have been okay for us to have sex in your eyes? We're both male.

    Genuine question.

    If you were the pitcher and he was the catcher, then yes!


  • #83
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Whitewinged wrote: »
    What are you on about? I was replying to a post by travellor og who said that in his opinion boys of 15 in this day and age are able to handle that kind of situation then in his second paragraph he goes on to question what he believes to be an unjust difference in how a man would be treated by the law after commiting the same crime.

    my point was that if he doesnt believe that boys of 15 are effected by this then why would he question the law seeing it as different? Why would he want the woman punished if he doesnt believe the boy is a victim.

    If he doesnt believe that boys are effected by it then why would he be shocked if the woman was treated differently in court to a man. Unless he also believes that girls of 15 "in this day and age" are equally uneffected by a similar situation. His issue then would not be the difference in gender treatment by the law but he wouldnt agree with the actual law in place.

    I was questioning his views because they seemed contradictory and i wanted him to clarify.

    You can think it is possible for a 15 year old to have sex with a 20 year old woman and no negative effects to stem for it.. AND also, at the very same time, think that women get any easy time in the courts in comparison to men when it comes to those who get prosecuted for having sex with (/ raping) someone who is underage. These things are not mutually exclusive.


  • #84
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Your professional opinion?

    So you believe that 'I got carried away' is an acceptable defense in rape cases?

    More professional opinion, I see.

    No. Are you insinuating that I have said as much?

    And what's with the "professional" opinion sneer? Is it also your insinuation that nobody can comment on this issue unless they are earning their living as either a psychologist or barrister? Is that your contention?


  • #85
    Whitewinged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Whitewinged


    TravellerOg wrote: »
    At 15 years old in this day & age, young boys are young boys and IMO, I believe they know what they are doing, especially after 50 times.

    In saying that, it's worrying that a woman is resorting to a 15 year old for sexual pleasure. If the shoe was on the other foot, a man would be labelled a paedophile and on the sex offenders list as well as a long stint in prison. Suppose it goes to show how messed up the system is.

    Where do you draw the line...?

    I know you can nachobusiness but his opinion was about boys in general not individual events.

    if he believes that 15 year old boys in general are able for that then he would be a part of the reason, mindset and of enforcing the attitude that women be treated differently by the courts as oppose to men if that does actually occur.


  • #86
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Explain why.

    I don't need to explain why. And I certainly don't need to explain why to you who seem to get your kicks picking out parts of a person's argument and falsely accusing them of something.


  • #87
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    Whitewinged wrote: »
    Her age gives her a position of power. When you are younger, you have a certain amount of trust for older people and dont expect them to take advantage of you. She was manipulating him by pretending she was pregnant and trying to get him to run away with her. That kind of confusion and pressure on him would have an impact.

    Im not dramatising it. If anything you are playing it down because you dont understand it. You say that he is just feeling the effects of a "love-lorn heartbreak" and that he just doesnt understand it yet you expect him to be able to understand a woman manipulating him and guilt tripping him into a situation that he is not experiened or emotionally prepared for.

    That's really just a matter of conjecture. What if he was the spoilt 15 year old son of a billionaire and she was a 22 year old maid or waitress and he decided he wanted to fool around with her. Does her age put her in a position of power in that situation? No.
    And I remember when I was 15. Picture a classroom full of 15 year olds. We received student teachers who were probably 21, 22, 23. And they were meek and timid and they were not in a position of power with even the quietest ones amongst us.


  • #88
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,772 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    asherbassad wrote: »
    No. Are you insinuating that I have said as much?
    You have. If you're willing to justify a sexual assault by an adult on the basis of "passion took over and logic and rationale were thrown out the window", then the same logic can apply for any sexual crime, including rape.

    Maybe you should have thought things through before posting them?
    And what's with the "professional" opinion sneer? Is it also your insinuation that nobody can comment on this issue unless they are earning their living as either a psychologist or barrister? Is that your contention?
    Comment by all means, but don't claim it is in any way fact and if you do make an effort to back it up with some sort of online evidence. Otherwise, it's just someone who wants to push their opinions as fact. They're not, they're ramblings at best.
    asherbassad wrote: »
    I don't need to explain why.
    Sure, and I could come out with a statement claiming that all blacks are stupid and refuse to explain why too. But then I'd be rightly accused of talking out of my arse.


  • #89
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Jesus that is one hot looking teacher.


  • #90
    JellieBabie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 129 ✭✭JellieBabie


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    It's not like in any persons reality there was a day marked on a calendar somewhere and before that day they were a child and after it an adult, but legally there is exactly such a day. It's hard to legislate around such vague concepts as maturity.

    Not true. In the case of a teacher and a student it is against the law even if the student is an adult and above the age of consent. That is because the teacher is in a position of authority. It is not so vague and it is very much black and white. Under no circumstances is it acceptable and any teacher who does this is deranged. Teenage boys are very immature and quite vulnerable in general despite the fact that many posts here assume otherwise.


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  • #91
    JellieBabie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 129 ✭✭JellieBabie


    asherbassad wrote: »
    That's really just a matter of conjecture. What if he was the spoilt 15 year old son of a billionaire and she was a 22 year old maid or waitress and he decided he wanted to fool around with her. Does her age put her in a position of power in that situation? No.
    And I remember when I was 15. Picture a classroom full of 15 year olds. We received student teachers who were probably 21, 22, 23. And they were meek and timid and they were not in a position of power with even the quietest ones amongst us.

    This is just complete nonsense.


This discussion has been closed.
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