Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

Shurimgreat · 06-10-2015 01:00PM

yop wrote: »

They are not looking at Rochford for the fact he won a title with Corofin, there is so much more to it, at least understand the argument first!

McStay will have his chance now, so lets see how it goes. With Evans proclaiming that team had an AI in them then it will be an easy soft AI they will certainly get.

I had a long post which disappeared on me.

In short it was along the lines that McStay is more experienced than Rochford, is tactically as good if not better than Rochford. brought serial underperformers Brigets to AI success in his first year.

Also led Mayo to U21 AI final in 2001 where they were beaten by probably the best team in the history of the competition, Tyrone, managed by Mickey Harte.

Your attempts to portray McStay as a poor, tactically inept manager are failing. His record speaks otherwise.

If you are going to peddle an anti McStay agenda you will have to come up with more facts and a better argument and be a bit more objective, other than saying Rochford is better than Mcstay.

The other point I made is Rochford will inherit a vastly superior and better resourced set up than McStay. You cannot compare the two setups. Mayo are currently years ahead of Roscommon when it comes to sustaining an AI championship challenge. Roscommon usually burn out in June.

TCDStudent1 · 06-10-2015 01:12PM

yop wrote: »

They are not looking at Rochford for the fact he won a title with Corofin, there is so much more to it, at least understand the argument first!

McStay will have his chance now, so lets see how it goes. With Evans proclaiming that team had an AI in them then it will be an easy soft AI they will certainly get.

Not really. He wouldn't be considered unless he had won an AI with Corofin. Its the biggest factor in making him favourite.

Shurimgreat · 06-10-2015 01:24PM

koochie wrote: »

The game was lost by the players...4 points up and they lost their nerve. Why is it that management are messiahs in Mayo when things are going well
and when Mayo lose they can't accept that the players just weren't good enough on the day. Management can't go out there and kick the sitters for the players or prevent them from committing stupid fouls that result in players being sent to the stand.
I am not a player basher in fact I have enough involvement in sport to realise that post mortems after a loss can be very negative on players that committed all year and sacrificed so much. However, if players had taken their chances against Dublin and finished out the game, NC and PH would not have been in the firing line. It seems unfair when having done so well for so long that these players haven't achieved the ultimate goal but they do have to take responsibility for their own short comings.
As a sportsperson I have great empathy for the management on this occasion. I wish the players would show such ruthlessness between the flags when it really matters.

They were 4 points up, holding their nerve, looking good for victory and what did the management do? They took off a 6ft5 midfielder and replaced him with a forward. What on earth was the rationality for this?

You can't win All Irelands with piss poor tactics of the type mayo have had in recent years. The players can have all the bottle and stamina and skill in the world but without the right tactics they are wasting their time.

yop · 06-10-2015 01:37PM

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Not really. He wouldn't be considered unless he had won an AI with Corofin. Its the biggest factor in making him favourite.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I had a long post which disappeared on me.

In short it was along the lines that McStay is more experienced than Rochford, is tactically as good if not better than Rochford. brought serial underperformers Brigets to AI success in his first year.

Also led Mayo to U21 AI final in 2001 where they were beaten by probably the best team in the history of the competition, Tyrone, managed by Mickey Harte.

Your attempts to portray McStay as a poor, tactically inept manager are failing. His record speaks otherwise.

If you are going to peddle an anti McStay agenda you will have to come up with more facts and a better argument and be a bit more objective, other than saying Rochford is better than Mcstay.

The other point I made is Rochford will inherit a vastly superior and better resourced set up than McStay. You cannot compare the two setups. Mayo are currently years ahead of Roscommon when it comes to sustaining an AI championship challenge. Roscommon usually burn out in June.

So Eamon Fitz, what had he won before he took over at Kerry? So no you don't have to have won a club AI to get the role. Plenty of other examples I am sure.

McStay went for the Kildare job, didn't get it. He went for the Mayo job, didn't get it.
All his proposals and recent appointments require a 2nd man, why is that? And we saw how well that went with Mayo and he has gone into the same role with Rossies.
That AI team that lost to Tyrone had 7 players who went onto to start for and lose multiple AI finals, also our now highest scoring forward in C Mortimer, so it was a very solid outfit, so no need to over play that one.

His record is with Brigids, winning an AI, I have no idea what the setup was there. He lost an AI final with Mayo, same as many managers.

McStay doesn't sit well with many within Mayo GAA and his setup didn't suit Kildare either.
Such is life I suppose, if he does well with Rossies then best of luck to him, though the excuses are starting already.

His isnt and won't be managing Mayo, that it really. Rochford might be and will if he comes, bring with him a very astute management style, anyone in Corifin will tell you that. His attention to detail is 2nd to none in the Galway club scene.

Best of luck to him if he gets it, C&H didn't work out. McStay isn't getting the role so no point in trawling on for page after page.

Shurimgreat · 06-10-2015 01:50PM

yop wrote: »

So Eamon Fitz, what had he won before he took over at Kerry? So no you don't have to have won a club AI to get the role. Plenty of other examples I am sure.

McStay went for the Kildare job, didn't get it. He went for the Mayo job, didn't get it.
All his proposals and recent appointments require a 2nd man, why is that? And we saw how well that went with Mayo and he has gone into the same role with Rossies.
That AI team that lost to Tyrone had 7 players who went onto to start for and lose multiple AI finals, also our now highest scoring forward in C Mortimer, so it was a very solid outfit, so no need to over play that one.

His record is with Brigids, winning an AI, I have no idea what the setup was there. He lost an AI final with Mayo, same as many managers.

McStay doesn't sit well with many within Mayo GAA and his setup didn't suit Kildare either.
Such is life I suppose, if he does well with Rossies then best of luck to him, though the excuses are starting already.

His isnt and won't be managing Mayo, that it really. Rochford might be and will if he comes, bring with him a very astute management style, anyone in Corifin will tell you that. His attention to detail is 2nd to none in the Galway club scene.

Best of luck to him if he gets it, C&H didn't work out. McStay isn't getting the role so no point in trawling on for page after page.

And mcstays attention to detail was second to none with brigids, equally you can ask the players. But i agree we are going around in circles here.

In summary both are proven managers, both are noted for tactical ability and both would be an asset to mayo.

We will see how things pan out. I hope rochford succeeds, every supporter does. But he has to show he knows what he is doing, including in his first year.

yop · 06-10-2015 02:04PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

And mcstays attention to detail was second to none with brigids, equally you can ask the players. But i agree we are going around in circles here.

In summary both are proven managers, both are noted for tactical ability and both would be an asset to mayo.

We will see how things pan out. I hope rochford succeeds, every supporter does. But he has to show he knows what he is doing, including in his first year.

Agreed to disagree to agree so

Agree though who ever it is succeeds.

koochie · 06-10-2015 03:13PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

They were 4 points up, holding their nerve, looking good for victory and what did the management do? They took off a 6ft5 midfielder and replaced him with a forward. What on earth was the rationality for this?

You can't win All Irelands with piss poor tactics of the type mayo have had in recent years. The players can have all the bottle and stamina and skill in the world but without the right tactics they are wasting their time.[/

Holding their nerve?? Does that explain missing open chances, the atrocious kick out after McCarthy's point and the subsequent squabbling on pitch between the Mayo players?? Maybe read an objective view from Darragh O' Sé on the Mayo players' lack of composure in the last 15 minutes of that game (Irish Times Sept 9th).
And you think this team have bottle, why won't they come out and tell their management and supporters what exactly their issues are and what are their motives for this action, instead of bottling that up too? We are all left speculating, unsure what to believe, I think the supporters and management deserve better.

Fr Tod Umptious · 06-10-2015 03:25PM

koochie wrote: »

Holding their nerve?? Does that explain missing open chances, the atrocious kick out after McCarthy's point and the subsequent squabbling on pitch between the Mayo players?? Maybe read an objective view from Darragh O' Sé on the Mayo players' lack of composure in the last 15 minutes of that game (Irish Times Sept 9th).
And you think this team have bottle, why won't they come out and tell their management and supporters what exactly their issues are and what are their motives for this action, instead of bottling that up too? We are all left speculating, unsure what to believe, I think the supporters and management deserve better.

You make a lot of valid points and I admit that I too am not comfortable with the way this has panned out.

I find it hard to be 100% behind the players on this because as I have said before at the end of the day the way they play and their actions on the field contribute in a huge way to the outcome of the game.

And in the replay we saw the actions of some players that certainly had a baring on the outcome.

But the die is cast now and I hope for the players sake that they will give that 110% when the chips are down that has been lacking in so many Mayo teams over the years.

TCDStudent1 · 06-10-2015 03:39PM

yop wrote: »

So Eamon Fitz, what had he won before he took over at Kerry? So no you don't have to have won a club AI to get the role. Plenty of other examples I am sure.

McStay went for the Kildare job, didn't get it. He went for the Mayo job, didn't get it.
All his proposals and recent appointments require a 2nd man, why is that? And we saw how well that went with Mayo and he has gone into the same role with Rossies.
That AI team that lost to Tyrone had 7 players who went onto to start for and lose multiple AI finals, also our now highest scoring forward in C Mortimer, so it was a very solid outfit, so no need to over play that one.

His record is with Brigids, winning an AI, I have no idea what the setup was there. He lost an AI final with Mayo, same as many managers.

McStay doesn't sit well with many within Mayo GAA and his setup didn't suit Kildare either.
Such is life I suppose, if he does well with Rossies then best of luck to him, though the excuses are starting already.

His isnt and won't be managing Mayo, that it really. Rochford might be and will if he comes, bring with him a very astute management style, anyone in Corifin will tell you that. His attention to detail is 2nd to none in the Galway club scene.

Best of luck to him if he gets it, C&H didn't work out. McStay isn't getting the role so no point in trawling on for page after page.

He had a long career as an inter-county player. So he already had a profile.
Rochford's profile was largely created by his role with Corofin. While he was known before Corofin, Mayo didnt even think him worthy of their U21 team....

yop · 06-10-2015 04:25PM

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

He had a long career as an inter-county player. So he already had a profile.
Rochford's profile was largely created by his role with Corofin. While he was known before Corofin, Mayo didnt even think him worthy of their U21 team....

And so many players with decorated careers have been awful managers, so nothing to do with that either. Jack O'Shea is one of the most decorated players to pull on a GAA shirt, his managerial career went well.

That was 3 years ago, plenty has changed in them 3 years, the game has changed itself dramatically, thats been discussed all over the media, and it hasn't changed for the better in a lot of games.

TCDStudent1 · 06-10-2015 04:27PM

yop wrote: »

And so many players with decorated careers have been awful managers, so nothing to do with that either. Jack O'Shea is one of the most decorated players to pull on a GAA shirt, his managerial career went well.

That was 3 years ago, plenty has changed in them 3 years, the game has changed itself dramatically, thats been discussed all over the media, and it hasn't changed for the better in a lot of games.

A big part of what has changed is that Rochford went & proved himself with Corofin which is the point I'm trying to make!

yop · 06-10-2015 04:31PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

You make a lot of valid points and I admit that I too am not comfortable with the way this has panned out.

I find it hard to be 100% behind the players on this because as I have said before at the end of the day the way they play and their actions on the field contribute in a huge way to the outcome of the game.

And in the replay we saw the actions of some players that certainly had a baring on the outcome.

But the die is cast now and I hope for the players sake that they will give that 110% when the chips are down that has been lacking in so many Mayo teams over the years.

Agree totally, management can never do it for them and put it over the bar, though they can make the tactical moves and decisions which aide them.
In this case, both are to blame, the players took the stance on it.

I back them in that regard, but fup me they are setting themselves up for an awful fall.

yop · 06-10-2015 04:32PM

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

A big part of what has changed is that Rochford went & proved himself with Corofin which is the point I'm trying to make!

I'm on about the game and those who can manage in this "new" way to set teams up and game.
As I said on another post, Rochford is noted as been very tactical astute to all of this.

That said, he mightn't even get the job OR want it. Or when it comes to inter county he could fall badly.

MaroonAndGreen · 06-10-2015 04:49PM

As far as I'm concerned, Rochford and McStay have similar managerial CV's.

Both played Inter-County football for Mayo, both managed club sides, both won County, Connaught and All Ireland titles with a club and both have been involved in a county underage set-up at some point.

The difference between them: McStay is more in the public eye, he is better known.

Green_Tae · 06-10-2015 04:59PM

McStay is in my opinion, the best football analyst in the country and his achievement, winning that All-Ireland title with St. Brigid's should not be underestimated but clearly his vision for the Mayo senior set-up was drastically at odds with what the county board would agree to and crucially fund. Future Mayo managers will not likely receive the same level of funding that James Horan got.

Rochford on the other hand moulded a very talented Corofin side into what many have called the most attractive, attacking team in the country. I've admired some of the football played in Offaly in recent years, namely by Rodhe and the Offaly seniors, not to mention the stuff played by Dublin and Kerry on occasion but at a purely aesthetic level that Corofin team have no equal. So, speaking purely as a spectator you would be tempted to see what Rochford could do with the Mayo seniors.

PressRun · 06-10-2015 05:31PM

I'd like to see Rochford get it. I think a new approach and a fresh pair of eyes is needed. I'd be interested to see what he'd do with them.

seligehgit · 06-10-2015 05:32PM

Holding their nerve?? Does that explain missing open chances, the atrocious kick out after McCarthy's point and the subsequent squabbling on pitch between the Mayo players?? Maybe read an objective view from Darragh O' Sé on the Mayo players' lack of composure in the last 15 minutes of that game (Irish Times Sept 9th).
And you think this team have bottle, why won't they come out and tell their management and supporters what exactly their issues are and what are their motives for this action, instead of bottling that up too? We are all left speculating, unsure what to believe, I think the supporters and management deserve better.

You make some valid points in this post,the crux of the issue is it comes down to a mix of good management and players to win All Irelands.Since 2012 there have been poor off field and on field decision making and a failure to close out games.It may well be as simple as we don't have the squad of players required.I personally think a manager of the calibre of Jim McGuinness could well be capable of getting this team over the line...I know he's not available.

TBF to the players I'd be shocked if they disclose publicly the reasons behind the vote of no confidence out of respect for Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes.There has to be some level decency in dealing with Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes,enough hurt and rancour has already been experienced.

koochie · 06-10-2015 07:14PM

Apparently Horan was having meetings with the players during the year and there is now speculation that he played a pivotal role in the actions taken by the players in the past two weeks.
Come back St Patrick I think you left a very poisonous one behind you!!

Rawhead · 06-10-2015 07:52PM

koochie wrote: »

Apparently Horan was having meetings with the players during the year and there is now speculation that he played a pivotal role in the actions taken by the players in the past two weeks.
Come back St Patrick I think you left a very poisonous one behind you!!

You just appear in the last day and start posting on the mayo thread. All 4 of your posts are digs at the players or the previous management. I think St Patrick might have left more than one poisonous serpent behind him.

martyos121 · 06-10-2015 07:59PM

koochie wrote: »

Apparently Horan was having meetings with the players during the year and there is now speculation that he played a pivotal role in the actions taken by the players in the past two weeks.
Come back St Patrick I think you left a very poisonous one behind you!!

With all due respect, would you kindly feck off with such nonsense. Unless you're going to back this drivel up with a reliable source (your imagination doesn't count), stop with the anti-Horan propaganda. It's so cringeworthy.

Loafing Oaf · 06-10-2015 08:10PM

koochie wrote: »

Apparently Horan was having meetings with the players during the year and there is now speculation that he played a pivotal role in the actions taken by the players in the past two weeks.

By the voices in your head?

MaroonAndGreen · 06-10-2015 08:15PM

Will Corofin possibly playing into the new year affect Rochford's chances of getting the job? And if he does get the job will he be able to juggle the two roles?

yop · 06-10-2015 09:49PM

koochie wrote: »

Apparently Horan was having meetings with the players during the year and there is now speculation that he played a pivotal role in the actions taken by the players in the past two weeks.
Come back St Patrick I think you left a very poisonous one behind you!!

Ah stop will you, you've had 4 posts and they are as negative as anything I've seen on here.
If you've just registered to have a biTUch and moan then your on the wrong forum.

davegrohl48 · 06-10-2015 09:56PM

He wont turn down a chance at the Mayo job. It's a realistic chance of winning Sam n becoming the most famous Mayo man of all time. Within the next three years we still retain most our players and we add in some excellent young forwards. In that spell done right there is one title to be got. Especially with Rochfords tactics n the full 50 players to pick from, the 34 existing and about 16 fringe/young guys.
Squad should be for sure stronger next year and the year after. We need to stay away from win or bust psychology. Improve n improve until we just blow some team away in September.

seligehgit · 06-10-2015 10:04PM

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Will Corofin possibly playing into the new year affect Rochford's chances of getting the job? And if he does get the job will he be able to juggle the two roles?

I can't imagine it would affect his chances of getting the job if they really want him.It will be a far from ideal scenario if he has a dual rule until Corofin exit the club championship.Hopefully the Mayo club champion's will put them to the sword.

Is there any likelihood the Mayo County Board would issue him with an ultimatum that in order to get the Mayo gig he has to resign as manager of Corofin forthwith. Hardly a likely scenario,how bad does he want the Mayo job?Not too often in life you are given the option of managing your native county,the ultimate honour in one's management career.However young Stephen Rochford is, the offer mightn't come around again if indeed there is to be such an offer.

Westernyelp · 06-10-2015 10:05PM

yop wrote: »

Ah stop will you, you've had 4 posts and they are as negative as anything I've seen on here.
If you've just registered to have a biTUch and moan then your on the wrong forum.

Aiden Henry in the Connaught more or less said the same thing in his Column today in fairness. that don't make it true of course.

Ascii · 06-10-2015 10:11PM

On Sat last I was talking to one of the corofin players from last year. Feels the hunger is not as strong as last year in the squad. He feels that if Mountbellew Moylough get the early lead on Sunday next that it could be curtains for the teamt his year. Mount Moy have beaten corofin twice this year in two lesser competitions and wont be a bit afraid of them. Gary sice has pulled Corofin across the line twice this year. Last year they bet milltown 4-16 to 2 points in the semi final last year, this year tuam brought them to a replay in the quarter and in the semi corofin struggled for long parts with Cortoon.

My guess is that Rochford might well be free from Monday morning :-)

Shurimgreat · 06-10-2015 10:11PM

seligehgit wrote: »

I can't imagine it would affect his chances of getting the job if they really want him.It will be a far from ideal scenario if he has a dual rule until Corofin exit the club championship.Hopefully the Mayo club champion's will put them to the sword.

Is there any likelihood the Mayo County Board would issue him with an ultimatum that in order to get the Mayo gig he has to resign as manager of Corofin forthwith. Hardly a likely scenario,how bad does he want the Mayo job?Not too often in life you are given the option of managing your native county,the ultimate honour in one's management career.However young Stephen Rochford is, the offer mightn't come around again if indeed there is to be such an offer.

Does anyone have any confidence in the County Board to get it right though? If we need to wait until march to get rochford it wouldn't be the end of the world. We shudnt write him off for the sake of a few months. The league isnt all that important except for staying in division 1. Donnie Buckley if he stays could train the team until then.

yop · 06-10-2015 10:16PM

Westernyelp wrote: »

Aiden Henry in the Connaught more or less said the same thing in his Column today in fairness. that don't make it true of course.

I read the words "Aidan Henry" and that was enough. I wonder have we Aidan here on boards.ie

Ascii · 06-10-2015 10:16PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Does anyone have any confidence in the County Board to get it right though? If we need to wait until march to get rochford it wouldn't be the end of the world. We shudnt write him off for the sake of a few months. The league isnt all that important except for staying in division 1. Donnie Buckley if he stays could train the team until then.

Not a chance...manager needs to be in place for the end of November. He needs to be working with players, getting strength and conditioning programes in place etc.

Anyone that thinks a manager can take over a team that has gone through the FBD and the first few league games does not understand the procedures and planning required for a successful inter county team. By his last two league games he needs to have 12 of his starting championship team in their regular positions and be working on fine tuning them for the first round of the championship. This will not happen if he only takes over in March

Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

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