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TCD students cheer islamist Asghar Bukhari and his defence of the Charlie Hebdo k

13

Comments

  • #102
    jungleman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 803 ✭✭✭jungleman


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Its definitely censorship by the institution

    I don't see how?

    If Trinity didn't book him, they would not be stopping the public from listening to him. They can listen to what he has to say at a different venue.

    Similarly, if Richie Kavanagh wanted to headline Slane, and the organizers refused, they would not be censoring him or his music. They'd simply be saying "people can listen to your crap somewhere else, just not here".

    No suppression of speech there.


  • #103
    mdudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭mdudy


    As someone who was actually at the debate, allow me to say a two things.

    1. Brendan O'Neill came across as a complete arse, and as the first speaker done nothing to endear the audience to the proposition. He was slimy and actually insulting. But rather than actually saying something and it being insulting, he was being insulting for the sake of it, because he could. To be honest, I would say that he turned quite a few against the motion.

    2. Asghar Bukhari was not cheered when he was talking about the murders, rather Brendan O'Neill interrupted him a few times and he was shushed and shouted at for interrupting and "order" was shouted. And O'Neill took no points of order from anyone when he was making his speech, so should not have the audacity to expect his to be taken. Bukhari obviously was applauded at the end of his speech as courtesy dictates.

    To even suggest that we cheered for the murders at Charlie Hebdo is ridiculous, and really shouldn't warrant a defence saying that we did not, O'Neill's column is nothing but oppourtinistic, reactionary tripe.


  • #104
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    mdudy wrote: »
    As someone who was actually at the debate....
    Do you know if it was recorded by any chance?


  • #105
    mdudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭mdudy


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Do you know if it was recorded by any chance?

    As far as I'm aware, it wasn't.


  • #106
    Massimo Cassagrande
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Massimo Cassagrande


    I wondered what the deal with all the beard growing was.


  • #107
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    mdudy wrote: »
    As someone who was actually at the debate, allow me to say a two things.

    1. Brendan O'Neill came across as a complete arse, and as the first speaker done nothing to endear the audience to the proposition. He was slimy and actually insulting. But rather than actually saying something and it being insulting, he was being insulting for the sake of it, because he could. To be honest, I would say that he turned quite a few against the motion.

    2. Asghar Bukhari was not cheered when he was talking about the murders, rather Brendan O'Neill interrupted him a few times and he was shushed and shouted at for interrupting and "order" was shouted. And O'Neill took no points of order from anyone when he was making his speech, so should not have the audacity to expect his to be taken. Bukhari obviously was applauded at the end of his speech as courtesy dictates.

    To even suggest that we cheered for the murders at Charlie Hebdo is ridiculous, and really shouldn't warrant a defence saying that we did not, O'Neill's column is nothing but oppourtinistic, reactionary tripe.

    so what society hosted the debate?


  • #108
    mdudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭mdudy


    The Phil


  • #109
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    [quote="Bulbous Salutation;97245381Students tend to be a bunch of arseholes. This type of stuff isn't the type of thing that left-wing students would have appeased even 15 years ago when I was a student. It's disturbing, but you'd hope to put it down to most students being arseholes.[/quote]

    Did you graduate from being an arsehole?


  • #110
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    TCD students left-wing? I haff to laff. Ha. Ha.


  • #111
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    Sorry but "it's obvious shurly" isn't an argument that establishes any more of a connection there.

    I had already mentioned that they would be future politicians in a previous post. I have done more than state that it was obvious in the post you quoted. And your petty nitpicking adds nothing to the discussion. Nor does it detract from the strength of my argument.


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  • #112
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    feargale wrote: »
    Did you graduate from being an arsehole?

    We are a bunch of arseholes to be fair. The ones who deny it are the biggest arseholes.


  • #113
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    mdudy wrote: »
    As someone who was actually at the debate, allow me to say a two things.

    1. Brendan O'Neill came across as a complete arse, and as the first speaker done nothing to endear the audience to the proposition. He was slimy and actually insulting. But rather than actually saying something and it being insulting, he was being insulting for the sake of it, because he could. To be honest, I would say that he turned quite a few against the motion.

    2. Asghar Bukhari was not cheered when he was talking about the murders, rather Brendan O'Neill interrupted him a few times and he was shushed and shouted at for interrupting and "order" was shouted. And O'Neill took no points of order from anyone when he was making his speech, so should not have the audacity to expect his to be taken. Bukhari obviously was applauded at the end of his speech as courtesy dictates.

    To even suggest that we cheered for the murders at Charlie Hebdo is ridiculous, and really shouldn't warrant a defence saying that we did not, O'Neill's column is nothing but oppourtinistic, reactionary tripe.

    Did anyone actually shout "shame"?


  • #114
    Nobblecock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2 ✭Nobblecock


    Import billions of people from the scummiest, most backward countries in the world, they said.

    It'll do Europe good, they said.


  • #115
    Brian from bray returns
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Brian from bray returns


    Nobblecock wrote: »
    Import billions of people from the scummiest, most backward countries in the world, they said.

    It'll do Europe good, thay said.

    I'll never vote for Fine Gael again.


  • #116
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    Brian from bray returns wrote: »
    I'll never vote for Fine Gael again.

    What has that got to do with it?


  • #117
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    We are a bunch of arseholes to be fair. The ones who deny it are the biggest arseholes.

    Some students are idiots. So are some of their elders whose idiocy has far wider ranging implications. But many students are balanced young people and it's unfair to tar them with the same brush as the attention seeking baboons.


  • #118
    Omackeral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Martial9 wrote: »
    TCD students cheer islamist Asghar Bukhari and his defence of the Charlie Hebdo killings in Paris


    But the audience at last night’s debate was not part of any cynical, self-styled community group. They were young. They were mainly liberals. They were pretty cool. Some were painfully PC. And yet some of them — a significant chunk of them — cheered Bukhari’s explanation for the Charlie killers’ actions, and applauded his suggestion that my question must have been motivated by racism.
    During my speech, students had hollered ‘Shame! Shame!’ when I suggested that Robin Thicke’s ‘Blurred Lines’ should not be banned on campuses. And yet they listened intently, with soft, understanding, patronising liberal smiles on their faces, as Bukhari implied that Charlie Hebdo brought its massacre on itself. This is how screwed-up the culture on Western campuses has become: I was jeered for suggesting we shouldn’t ban pop songs; Bukhari was cheered for suggesting journalists who mock Muhammad cannot be surprised if someone later blows their heads off.
    It provided a glimpse into the inhumanity of political correctness. The PC gang always claim they’re just being nice; it’s just ‘institutionalised politeness’, they say. Yet at Trinity last night I saw where today’s intolerance of offence and obsession with Safe Spacing minorities from difficult ideas can lead: to an agreeable nod of the head when it is suggested that it’s understandable when poor, victimised Muslims murder those who offended them.

    I didn't think that we had this sort of bollocks festering here, bar a few head the balls. It is worrying that this sort of stuff is gaining traction in our universities.


    Overly PC people are the antithesis of cool actually.


  • #119
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Overly PC people are the antithesis of cool actually.

    No, the antithesis of cool is people who say "overly". You always imagine them in a doggy-smelling tweed jacket over a windowpane check Vyella shirt and buff cords, shaking their Irish Independent in rage.


  • #120
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Ha I'm sure these people would give the same due time to a Christian group like the KKK. :P Shouting right on and all that.


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  • #121
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Of course, it all depends what they were cheering and applauding. If they were agreeing with statements about the brutality of the US invasions, of Guantanamo, etc, that's perfectly right.


  • #122
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Of course, it all depends what they were cheering and applauding. If they were agreeing with statements about the brutality of the US invasions, of Guantanamo, etc, that's perfectly right.

    I would wager that the cheering was in relation to people killed due to casing offence. With some weird leaps in logic and mental gymnastics.


  • #123
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I would wager that the cheering was in relation to people killed due to casing offence. With some weird leaps in logic and mental gymnastics.

    Perhaps. Let's see your bet on the table ;)


  • #124
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I would wager that the cheering was in relation to people killed due to casing offence. With some weird leaps in logic and mental gymnastics.

    Really?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97253243&postcount=103


  • #125
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Nodin wrote: »
    Really?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97253243&postcount=103

    Ah right if someone with 40 odd post says its so it must be true. :pac:


  • #126
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Well, check the guys posting history - his claim checks out, he is definitely at TCD - and is far more credible than the bitter-hack O'Neill (with a known history of misrepresentation and spinning shít).


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  • #127
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Five minutes researching Brendan O'Neill shows that he's not a serious journalist but a wind up merchant. This type of "journalism" is common in the US and getting traction in Europe. Willing to skew facts to serve the purpose of smearing those they disagree with.


  • #128
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    Well, check the guys posting history - his claim checks out, he is definitely at TCD - and is far more credible than the bitter-hack O'Neill (with a known history of misrepresentation and spinning shít).

    Asghar Bukhar needs spin ???? Really. He seems pretty bigoted and does the old personal attacks when his point is not accepted as gospel.


  • #129
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Asghar Bukhar needs spin ???? Really. He seems pretty bigoted and does the old personal attacks when his point is not accepted as gospel.


    *creak

    Oil those goal posts before you try moving them for jaysus sake.


  • #130
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Asghar Bukhar needs spin ???? Really. He seems pretty bigoted and does the old personal attacks when his point is not accepted as gospel.
    Did you miss that we are talking about the Trinity student that posted here, vs O'Neill?

    I don't care for Bukhar any more than I do for O'Neill.


  • #131
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Nodin wrote: »
    *creak

    Oil those goal posts before you try moving them for jaysus sake.

    Ah right so the alleged cheering does not matter who it was at... :rolleyes:


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  • #132
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    The 'alleged' cheering was bollocks/didn't-happen, printed by a discreditable hack - with an actual student who attended the debate, able to attest to that on-thread.

    It's basically [/thread] as far as the contents of the article are concerned.


  • #133
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    The 'alleged' cheering was bollocks/didn't-happen, printed by a discreditable hack - with an actual student who attended the debate, able to attest to that on-thread.

    It's basically [/thread] as far as the contents of the article are concerned.

    So one goes on one persons alleged attendance and can speak for everyone there that attended ?


  • #134
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    So none of this happened? Huh, OK.

    Asghar Bukhari is still an apologist for totalitarian religio-fascists however as is anyone who tries to justify murder or the threat of murder for being critical of or "offending" islam or any other sinister cult.


  • #135
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    So none of this happened? Huh, OK.

    Asghar Bukhari is still an apologist for totalitarian religio-fascists however as is anyone who tries to justify murder or the threat of murder for being critical of or "offending" islam or any other sinister cult.

    Apparently one person who attended this large event spoke for everyone that attended. Odd for AH to accept that kind of verification usually it's called out and further backup needed. But I can guess why. :pac:


  • #136
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    So one goes on one persons alleged attendance and can speak for everyone there that attended ?


    We're sorry and wish to apologise for reality intruding on your usual scheduled lefty bashing. Please ignore and carry on with "Waaaah!!!Da Muslams" at your earliest convience.


  • #137
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Nodin wrote: »
    We're sorry and wish to apologise for reality intruding on your usual scheduled lefty bashing. Please ignore and carry on with "Waaaah!!!Da Muslams" at your earliest convience.

    Think you are mixing me up with someone else. What's Da Muslams got to do with this ? You mean Islam ? And normally I get called a left supporter.


  • #138
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Apparently one person who attended this large event spoke for everyone that attended. Odd for AH to accept that kind of verification usually it's called out and further backup needed. But I can guess why. :pac:
    You seem to be taking one person's word for what happened, while dismissing another person's account on the basis that it is given by one person.

    When trying to decide who to believe about anything, it can be helpful to consider people's history and agendas.


  • #139
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    You seem to be taking one person's word for what happened, while dismissing another person's account on the basis that it is given by one person.

    When trying to decide who to believe about anything, it can be helpful to consider people's history and agendas.

    I know Asghar Bukhari history and agenda yes.


  • #140
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    You seem to be taking one person's word for what happened, while dismissing another person's account on the basis that it is given by one person.

    When trying to decide who to believe about anything, it can be helpful to consider people's history and agendas.

    I would have expected more than one poster to have been at the event, Boards is traditionally awash with TCD students and grads.

    Not sure who I would believe though, the phil and TCD student political types (as all colleges) were a host of unbelievable **** who I could believe cheering something like this if it looked edgy, who's only positive to university experience for most students was stealing their events drinks.
    But that "journalist" is a bit of a troll.


  • #141
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I know Asghar Bukhari history and agenda yes.
    It's really tiring when you engage in wilful ignorance like this - it's been pointed out to you already that people were talking about what the student said, not anything Bukhari said, and you ignore that and keep pretending people are talking about Bukhari - stop nitpicking with nonsense like this, everybody can see right through it, because it's not even remotely skilfully concealed.


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  • #142
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    It's really tiring when you engage in wilful ignorance like this - it's been pointed out to you already that people were talking about what the student said, not anything Bukhari said, and you ignore that and keep pretending people are talking about Bukhari - stop nitpicking with nonsense like this, everybody can see right through it, because it's not even remotely skilfully concealed.

    Concealed what now ? I would have the same comments if they had hosted the grand dragon of the KKK and cheered him. Same if they hosted the WBC and cheered them.


  • #143
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Something you can actually point to about the moral hypocrisy of the right on "left" (as opposed to the economic left), is that there doesn't appear to have been any protests about the likes of Bukhari talking whereas fringe/extremist right wing have attracted a sh+t storm when invited to speak at these events.
    Nick Griffin et al may be nasty people but compared to some of the Islamists they are puppies.


  • #144
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Don't the Phil usually post videos online of their debates? Where's this one?


  • #145
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Don't the Phil usually post videos online of their debates? Where's this one?

    They forgot this time :P


  • #146
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Don't the Phil usually post videos online of their debates? Where's this one?

    De Muslims blew it up.


  • #147
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Hist & Phil can be a bit dimwitted. I was at a debate on 1916, and the (wildly popular) student speaker was dissing the signatories as antifeminists. I stood up and made a point of order that Thomas MacDonagh was an enthusiastic member of the Irish Women's Franchise League, and while they nodded politely, he went on with his diatribe as if it meant nothing to his point.


  • #148
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Don't the Phil usually post videos online of their debates? Where's this one?

    If Bukhari said some of the things that night that he has said in the past, they may well be seeking legal advice.


  • #149
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    If Bukhari said some of the things that night that he has said in the past, they may well be seeking legal advice.

    ?


  • #150
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    ?


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/


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  • #151
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/

    Yeah had that in mind just wanted clarification.


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