DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

Pacing Mule wrote: »

It's more a case of resources to allocate. Much smaller field for this (900) so I imagine it's a case of catering for the most popular target times. Perhaps see if anyone else here is running it at a similar target pace and make up an unofficial pace group.

Average marathon finish times are well over 4 hours though. I'd guess the most popular target time for new half marathon runners is 2 hours and there are always pacers for that. But 2 hr half doesn't translate to 4 hr full marathon.
Anyway I'll wave the 4 hr pacers off and just plod along in my own slow zone!!

runnerholic wrote: »

PMP is 5 minute kilometres for a 3 1/2 hour marathon. My LSR's are at 5.25/Kilometre.
My ankle injury is long term and does not look like it will heal completely. Its an injury that I am having to manage. I've had an operation on it before and extensive physio this year. If I thought I would manage to prepare better in the future I would leave the marathon for this year but there is no guarantee of that. So having got a fair amount of work done its kind of now or never. I may still have the same issues in the future.

runnerholic wrote: »

Thanks JMSE. I can afford the fee. I want to run the whole thing and do a time that I would consider respectable for me. But if I was unable to finish or posted a time way below my capabilities I would be devastated. So if I run I want to run well. Hope you can answer your own questions soon enough. Cheers.

Hi runnerholic,

You're going to need to reconcile the two statements above to make a decision. Your training won't let lend itself to you doing yourself justice so the chances are that you will do a time well below your capabilities and run the risk of feeling devastated.

OTOH, if you've got a long term ankle injury that's going to prevent you from ever training for a marathon properly and this is a bucket list item then you'll probably be able to finish one on the training that you've done to date. I'd recommend adopting some kind of run/walk strategy right from the very start. I know that the temptation will be to run to halfway or so and then start the walking sections but to do your best on limited training you're much better off adopting it right from the start. One potential strategy is to walk straight after the water stations, take a minute to have a drink or take some kind of food. There's a guy called Jeff Galloway who strongly advocates run/walking. This is a brief article on why.

You've mentioned a LSR pace of 5:25min/km. Have you run any races recently to give you an idea of a target time?

I'm officially in. No backing out now!

wolfyboy555 wrote: »

Thanks guys. Going to try and get something sorted before the weekend hopefully.

I'd also recommend Mark Kenneally. Def get the niggles sorted though - I'm glad I did.

Mrs Mc wrote: »

With the result of trying to get to bed before 10.30 all this week and no technology after 10 I didn't get to check boards last night ..... Cold sweat ... Anxiety ..... Deep breaths .... But apart from a text just after 10 with the result I did get to bed at 10.20 actually didn't get to see my eldest at all yesterday as she was working last night Monday I felt like I had been hit with a train I was so exhausted and it didn't help everyone telling me I look tired. As the hubby says wait till they start telling you you look ill .... Ha ha that brings me back a year or two when I couldn't understand how he put his body through all the training and it was a common comment in our house pre marsthon ! 5 miles easy last night with 5*50m strides joined by Mc Jnr again think she fancies herself as my coach ! Calves were sore but loosened out also wearing in new in soles on my shorter runs that physio gave me before I put them in for long run. Feeling a bit better this morning but will aim for early nights for the rest of this week.:)

Well done A, all the hard yards now will make DCM day seem a doddle
Will be good to Run on bit fresher legs for a change.

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Singer, back and shoulders, is biting the bullet and seeing a physio. Great to hear!

My first physio trip went fine! I got him to take a look at my shoulder, my left foot and my achilles (they've been pretty stiff in the morning).

My shoulder woes are due to a neck mobility problem on my left side (or something along those lines). I got some exercises to do daily that should help out. He examined my left foot and couldn't find any sign of a problem - the slight pain had gone away in the last few days anyway. My tight achilles are being caused by my calves, so he went through some basic calf stretching with me. He did some deep massaging of my calves, which hurt a lot ("plenty of knots") - I guess this was like going to a dental hygienist for the first time

Unrelated question: When I registered for the marathon I put myself in Wave 2. I guess my planned time would have me just about in Wave 1 now. Is there any real advantage to moving up to Wave 1? Would getting up to near the front of Wave 2 be a bit better congestion-wise? Then again, it might be nice to have the option of starting with the 3:40 pacers. Argh, decisions.

I've been following this forum for a while now but didn't want to post anything up for fear of the advice i'd get saying my "training plan" is a terrible idea. But now my crap training plan is backfiring on me a bit with injury and i'm hoping to get a bit of advice now from people who might have picked up a few niggles in training.

I've followed a rather aggressive training plan, having built up from 15 km a week 6 weeks ago to 50km a week now. Runs have been going ok, about 10 mins/mile, but ramping up the mileage has been taking its toll. Had serious general leg pain (DOMS?) after my first 18 miler. It actually felt like my legs were on fire for about 3 days after. I just about managed to get it together for a 19 miler last sunday.

Anyway, i've now ended up with a bit of a niggle in my right hamstring. Nothing painful (yet), but I can definitely feel it when I walk or even when sitting. I've booked in for a physio on Monday but wondering if I should rest up until then or if it would be ok to give the LSR a go this weekend? I'd like to get the miles in, but the important thing for me is to make it to the start line.

Have any of you had any hamstring issues? How long a rest did you give it before going back to training?

mirrormatrix wrote: »

I've been following this forum for a while now but didn't want to post anything up for fear of the advice i'd get saying my "training plan" is a terrible idea. But now my crap training plan is backfiring on me a bit with injury and i'm hoping to get a bit of advice now from people who might have picked up a few niggles in training.

I've followed a rather aggressive training plan, having built up from 15 km a week 6 weeks ago to 50km a week now. Runs have been going ok, about 10 mins/mile, but ramping up the mileage has been taking its toll. Had serious general leg pain (DOMS?) after my first 18 miler. It actually felt like my legs were on fire for about 3 days after. I just about managed to get it together for a 19 miler last sunday.

Anyway, i've now ended up with a bit of a niggle in my right hamstring. Nothing painful (yet), but I can definitely feel it when I walk or even when sitting. I've booked in for a physio on Monday but wondering if I should rest up until then or if it would be ok to give the LSR a go this weekend? I'd like to get the miles in, but the important thing for me is to make it to the start line.

Have any of you had any hamstring issues? How long a rest did you give it before going back to training?

How long is a piece of string?

Hamstring injuries get graded according to their severity. You can get over them in a couple of days or it could take 6 months. You can only rely on professional advice. I'd see if you could get the physio appointment moved forwards and if you can't plan the LSR for after you see the physio.

hi - I'm another ones who's been dipping in and out of the forum over the last few months. I mentioned a while back that I was combining football training with the marathon prep which wasn't ideal but a necessary evil. This is my 4th week exclusively dedicated to the plan so feeling good thus far - thankfully have remained injury and illness free. Have clocked just short of 270 miles (less than I'd like but c'est la vie) since July obviously excluding football trainings and matches 2-3 times a week. I had to skip the Frank Duffy to rest for a match the day after but did complete the Half in a PB of 1.37 with disciplined (approx 7.20/mile) pacing and finished strong for first time ever in a HM. Have since completed a LSR of 23m (don't ask...took a wrong turn on marathon route & put 3 on top of planned 20 but psychological benefits have been good!) @9.37 average.

I'm not sure if I've got an actual question but suppose one of the things bothering me is missing out on quite a few of the earlier LSRs and when I hear people discussing tapering I'm a bit torn between ploughing on an extra bit or just sticking with the plan. Have received lots of super invaluable advice on the thread from race routes to pacing to long-short run ratios to warm ups to injury prevention to types of gear to wear etc etc so huge thanks to all and keep up the good work - we are nearly there...scary to think it's October tomorrow!

I had an interesting discussion recently with some ultramarathoners who both felt that a three week taper was too much and were all for a one week taper, two max.

I held my ground...stick to the plan! but I'm wondering what the mentors think of that point of view?

Usual caveat: I'm not asking for advice on my plan or looking to change it. Just looking for a discussion/opinions on the topic. Thanks.

Back from my 10 mile. I normally do early morning runs (pre-6:30am), but couldn't fit the 10 miler in before school run / work, so had to do it at lunchtime on a different route than I'd usually do. Typically, I forgot my water bottle & Garmin watch. Given how warm it was today, I was expecting to suffer from thirst, but actually I was surprised how well I coped. The plan obviously works!

The bad news is that I ran way too fast (5:21/km). With no Garmin watch, I used the Strava app on my phone. I kept it in my pocket for the duration of the run and ran by feel. I just had a look at my splits and they range from 4:12 (almost a PB for 1k!) to 5:44 (even this is faster than what I should have averaged).

I'm a bit annoyed that I couldn't do a better job at pacing myself on the toughest week of the entire plan, but I'll just put it down to experience & take it handy on the Fri 5 mile & w/e 20 lsr.

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Sorry to hear that Good call on cutting it short. Let us know how you get on!

Wasn't a happy bunny about that last night and still so so about it all today. Had the physio session this morning. It just looks like a wear and tear injury around the knee cap from the build up in mileage and running so often. 5 times a week since late June has been hard on the body and has found a weakness. He suggests the easy pace running has increased both my time on the ground in stride and combined with the increased mileage it's just wear and tear.

He thinks it's not a coincidence that it came about as the plan got to a peak. For now I am good to attempt to run but have to pull out if the pain is above 3/10. I am going to attempt to run later so we'll see, the strapping does help. He has advised anything classed as a recovery run (so tomorrow and Sunday's run on the boards plan) but done on the bike instead to maintain fitness. Back again next Wednesday so we'll see then, ultimately the issue won't go away without some rest (he is unsure how long but could be week/weeks) and then to build up the strength around the area. He is doing his best to ensure I can get to the start line but I am now worried.

Singer wrote: »

The P&D Advanced Marathon Training book is very clear that 3 weeks is the optimal length of time for a taper - the benefits of a good taper can improve performance by a few percent, the benefits of one additional hard week could only be a percent or two, so erring on the side of a longer taper (i.e. 3 weeks instead of 2) is better.

I would actually argue that the P&D taper is really only 2 weeks.
I'm currently following the P&D 50m plan and his first taper week is still 45m with a 10K race followed by a 16m Long run.

Even the second "taper" week has a tasty VO2Max session of 8m w 3X1200 @ 5k pace.