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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
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HI Guys
Crazy busy with work & family. THings back on track after my foot issues (I think)
Two physio sessions to fix the extensor issue on my foot - Sep 15th and 18th. Extensor is now perfect, although I did mention that my achilles was a little stiff, and she checked... and said it is VERY stiff ('I dont know how you can run with this tightness). She did a little work on the achilles and I now have to do some manipulation on it every day to work out the scaring...
So I missed most of the week of my little injury.
Sat 19th: 4 miles easy
Sun 20th: 10 miles steady. I was supposed to do a HM inCharleville but had the kids, and happy I wasnt entered. Not sure if it was the week out from training, being cautious of the injury or something else, but just could not run more than 10 miles - was knackered!!
Mon 21st: 7 miles pace. Felt pissed off after Sunday, so went at it again and did 7 to make up !! Felt a bit better
Tues 22nd: 7 miles steady
Wed 23rd: Rest
Thurs 24th: 7 miles steady
Fri 25th: Rest
Sat 26th: 3 miles easy
Sun 27th: 20 miles !!!
Yesterday was my second 20 miler and was not feeling energetic about the run. Had been in a crappy hotel in E Europe all week with a headcold and the weekday running wasn't enjoyable as I couldn't find a park to run in and the streets were not conducive.
Anyway, up at 6 am for breakfast. No bread in the house so I had a sweet bun instead
I only took one gel and no water with me as I wanted to stress the energy levels and didnt really drink much water on my last 20 miler.
Out on the road by 7am and unlike my other 20 miler it was a beautiful morning in Cork!!
Energy levels felt just OK for the first 4-5 miles until I got into the rhythm of it. First 10 miles clocked at 83.54 so a very healthy 8.23 average.
Sun was out in force now and a little warmer so was sweating more. Was nervous as to whether I made a mistake in not bringing water. I had left my gel at the 15 mile mark but didnt take it till the 16 mile marker. It gave me the turbo boost so I do plan to take 3-4 gels during the race from about the 15-16 mile marker. My route this week had a couple of really really tough hills in the last three miles - finishing with a 300M 7% incline. Did second 10M in 80.35 (averaging 8.04).
No time for ice bath as I had to go to football training. My legs were VERY tight for this, but hopefully being on my feet/ moving about for the hour helped with getting the lactic out.
So, have my two 20's done, and while I have some 8M runs this week, my LSR's are now tapering - 'ONLY' 15 miles this weekend.
Hopefully everyone is going well - I am on the last page of 4 of my training plan!!0 -
Hi Sunny Disposition, well done on 18 at 7am :eek: Yes, these type of runs require a bit more effort until your body gets used to the early start so I'd usually recommend lower expectations re pace etc. Yes to phone....no to headphones :mad
Hi healy1835, well done on the progression run. Yes, it can be hard to run slower but worth the effort to get it right. Form is something to focus on when going slower, it's easy to lapse into a slump or splayed and inefficient limbs (arms and legs). Not sure about the itchy foot though
It was a hot weekend alright. Running in warm conditions now won't necessarily make it easier if we get warm weather again (:eek:) on the day but it will have let you know if heat affects you or not. If it does, you'll have a fair idea that keeping to your PMP (planned marathon pace) will require a lot of extra effort. Therefore the wise (and self-preserving) runner will ease back on pace and dial back expectations on the day. If heat affects you and you dash off at your 'best possible outcome' pace, you'll bonk, guaranteed :eek:
You're in good hands anyway so i expect you'll tet more specific advice from your coach as the day approaches.
Hi PeterD61, well done on that (that hill.......ouch ) and yes, there are going to be emotional moments...and mental dips and highs on the day. Roll with them and if it's a dip, remind yourself that - like the physical dips - it woll soon pass
Have a look at these links re lacing your shoes. It might be worth experimenting now to see if a different method will ease your poor feet
Lock lacing and black toenail jotunheim and clearlier
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96917882&postcount=4166
ZV Yoda post with AK video on lock lacing
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96917915&postcount=4167
Jeff galloway on black toenails
http://www.jeffgalloway.com/learn/black-toenail/
Mrs Mc up next...*that* post, amazing Well done! I have to do it justice so will get back to you after the school run....:)
Welcome back JacEim 0 -
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Think my head ok with it, not sure for me extra 2 will answer any more
Questions, was taking to someone who had done few Marathons & was
Well prepared and woke in hospital bed after passing 40k in race,So thinking
20-22 won't matter before DCM. As I said A, said he needs to get done for
Head, but think one of guys said while back training wise probably no
Real gains & have convinced myself way to go.
Let's know what FBOT thinks anyway.
Night night
I think you should be all in bed sleeping and getting as much rest as possible rather than posting on boards :P
Dubgal, I think you should consider putting a 10pm curfew on posting to this thread 0 -
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While running my LSR on Saturday, I developed mild shine splints in both legs for the first mile or two but they then went away so I didn't give it much more thought after that ....until now. [I got shine splints right at the beginning of my running in January, but they soon disappeared after a few weeks and I haven't had them again since then]
Saturday night in work my legs where still sore from the LSR that morning so I figured no big deal. Last night however, in work, my left lower leg became very sore if I stood up to walk after been sitting down for any period of time to the point were I was almost limping. Once I kept walking it kinda dissipated after a while but I could still feel a dull aching in my lower leg. The almost 'limping part' became less noticeable as the night wore on, but I could still feel a dull aching in my lower leg.
I am just up out of the bed in the last half an hour and my left leg still has the dull aching feeling ... almost like it needs a good stretch but no matter what I do its not going away.
I booked a Physio appointment last week for this Thursday [as a proactive measure, with only 4 weeks to go], so I'll talk to him about this there, but I'm not sure what to do in the meantime. My running plan for the week looks like this.
Today: rest or 4 mile
Tuesday: 6 to 8 mile
Wednesday: 1 easy, 2 steady, 1 easy
Saturday: 18 to 20 mile LSR
... i'm guessing at a minimum to go with the rest option for today.
Hi BC1, sorry to hear this! I'd be inclined to rest today and see how you feel tomorrow. Push everything back a day so if the four miles goes ok tomorrow, try 6 on Wednesday. See physio on Thursday and reassess from there.
In the meantime, if the pain increases or doesn't go away while running, stop and go home. We can't really give more advice than that here. Listen to your body, it knows best
Did you see a physio for this in January? Best of luck and let us know how it goes!0 -
That was a brilliant post! (Your long one). Well done on your 20 miles! Fab!
And you modestly didn't mention, when mentioning parkrun on Saturday, that you got an award there for being great (have forgotten its actual title, sorry!).
Thanks Helen it was volunteer of the year and my trophy is sitting proudly on the window at home was chuffed 0 -
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Sorry my question was a bit vague. I've done a few half marathons previously.
My 30th birthday is marathon day so I feel like registering?
I do 3 runs a week, my other runs would be around 7 miles each. I do cross-training on the bike each 2nd day about 50/60km.
This week has been my longest at 17 miles.
I've been steadily building up the last few weeks. My LSR's are about 10min/miles.
I only aim to finish it, not set on any time. Although around the 4hr mark would be unreal.
Hi irish_rat, thanks for that. There are a few more questions at the end of the first post on this thread. Have a read through the post (you might want to stick the kettle on, it's a long un) and post up the answers to the questions please when you get a chance 0 -
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Thanks CHS I think I followed the same one as you last year, is it the Jeff Gaudette one with back-to-back medium/long runs? I started off with the 3:45 plan and (unwisely probably) moved on to the 3:30 plan cross-hatched with club sessions. Unlike you, I was lacking a few years' cycles of training.
You're doing well, 1:36 for the half says so but you're right to be conservative for now. Well done on the Pbs, I think with some consistent and structured training, you'll do well. You're only a young fella too :pac: 0 -
Thanks so much Dubgal, and so nice of you to remember why I'm doing it! I'm definitely doing it this year, even if I have to drag my butt around it I'm looking at sub 4:30 which I think is manageable. I did 27.6km on Friday in 2:40 but by the sounds of it I need to slow my training pace right down. So I will take your advice on board. Slow down my pace which will help me last a lot longer. I definitely think unforced walk breaks are the way to go rather than the ugly forced walks towards the end. I'm doing the Athlone 3/4 next week and will put this new advice in to action. Thanks again
No prob Phoole Great, and make sure your pace plan doesn't allow for any deviation/getting carried away. There is a very real danger that you 'leave it all on the road' in Athlone if not paced and run conservatively :eek: There's not really enough recovery time should you get carried away pace-wise... 0 -
Thanks for that.
This week is a bit crammed as I only have a four day week (flying out on Thursday for a wedding) if you remember.
Plan is
Sunday rest
Monday 8
Tuesday 4
Wednesday 5
Thursday 20
All at a very slow pace.
Sound ok?
Would be back for 5 miles on the Monday.
Oops, too late to suggest hold fire on the 8 today
Keep the pace easy easy easy between now and Thursday and considering your last (off-plan ) lsr was only saturday, no harm in keeping it at 18. Give yourself the option, depending on how the legs feel between now and Thursday I have a stick foam roller if you want to borrow it while you're away, I've a feeling you'll need it Thursday night after sitting in a plane for a few hours :eek: 0 -
runnerholic wrote: »Hi guys, congrats on all the miles you've been logging. I've been following this thread with much interest for a good while now. I am hoping to do my first DCM next month. I have a nuisance injury that flares up for a few days after I run and I have only managed to do half the mileage on my program. I did 18.5 miles LSR this morning and I did 20 mile LSR last week and I have done a 15 and 16 miler previous to those runs. My problem is I am not able to build on this mileage during the week as my injury is too sore in the days after my LSR and it takes about a week to settle down again, just in time for my LSR the following week. I haven't paid my entry fee yet as I am worried that I haven't logged enough miles and I don't know what to do. Should I go for it?? Any advice much appreciated.
Hi runnerholic, I see you've had sound advice from Clearlier and I'd tend to agree with him, perhaps not what you want to hear at this stage.runnerholic wrote: »Thanks JMSE. I can afford the fee. I want to run the whole thing and do a time that I would consider respectable for me. But if I was unable to finish or posted a time way below my capabilities I would be devastated. So if I run I want to run well. Hope you can answer your own questions soon enough. Cheers.
Firstly, only managing 50% of the plan is a red flag signalling that you won't be able to run near your full potential. And secondly, I suspect you're loading your mileage on the lsr part which while not helping your recovery, may even be the cause of/exacerbating your injury. If I were you, I'd pull out now, get the niggles sorted and use this base as foundation towards your next training cycle.
I'd be quite worried that proceeding this year could knock you out of action for quite a while, I'm sure you don't want that. Can you see a physio, preferably one with a running background? We could give some recommendations, depending on where you are.
Best of luck!Can I jump in with a quick question (that I think I know the answer to).
Started running Christmas day 2014 (never ran before but always kept fit). Quickly worked my way to 10k easy, planned for the half last week, over the summer that was going well and I said I'd do a plan for the marathon and see how that went. Got to 28k 10 days before the half. Did the half in 1.58 and was delighted with that but had a niggle in my hip at the start line. Did a recovery on Wednesday that went very well but a 10k on Thursday has set me right the way back. My hip is sore since and yesterday I had pain under the arch of my foot.
Obviously my plan to do 30k this past weekend went out the window. My hip is STILL sore this morning - although definitely improved.
Am I out? Or can I rest up till the weekend and try to get the 30 done then?
I don't mind my time, would be happy enough to finish in 4.30 but don't mind at all if it takes 5 hours (would have been looking to do 4.10 earlier in my plan), I don't mind if I have to walk a little either, so long as I can finish it.
If it's a nay it's a nay but if it's still on, should I cross train this week with the elliptical trainer/rowing machine/bike/swim or does rest mean rest?
Thanks for help!
+1 to Clearlier's advice, see a physio sooner rather than later, all is not lost yet Congrats on the half and your achievements to date 0 -
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Not really feeling the love for the auld running today. Painful 4M easy at lunchtime and an equally unpleasant date with the foamroller after. The calves are like violin strings and the physio is booked in for this week.
But! I always intended to get a new pair of runners before October as me and my old pair never really felt like we were gelling (even tho we did cover about 800k together). So I made my way into AK Bray (armed with a voucher the OH had won during a local race) and got a lovely shiny red pair of Mizuno's which looks like it might be my pair for the big day. At least I'll be recognizable on the pictures. 0 -
All in now?? Shop closed after this lot anyway
Mrs Mc......what a difference 365 days makes, eh? So fitting this 20 mile-stone was exactly one year later. Funny what life throws at you
You've been doing everything so well and it all paid off today. You have your routine down pat ...and the Mc beags well-trained too Sounds like a very positive run alright, well done on leaving the negatives at home.
Solo is good, this is another aspect of your training (mental endurance) ticked off too.
Definitely try salt tabs on your next lsr (are you doing a PMP lsr too?). This run was really even splits too, all in all, I am raising my arms in the air for you too! :cool: Well done! Who'da thunk it when you started popping in to annapr's log earlier this year?!
colhandspan, well done on your first 20 miler! Your dog must be the fittest dog around But ffs, what a bloody idiot you had the misfortune to run into :mad: Hope all ok now and nothing worse than a bit of blood and bruise?!
....and yes, "you are a marathon runner"
TFGR, erratic pacing or not, at the end of the day, you covered the distance - and carrying Auntie Flo :eek: . You are another runner who has come such a long way and I mean more than just the miles covered....
You also learned a very valuable lesson about listening to your body and trusting your instinct. Better learned on Sunday than on the 26th.
Well done missus and hope the recovery is going well. What's planned for next weekend and when does taper start for you?
Jake1970, sounds like a well-executed trial, covering all aspects Nice session too after the lsr. It will stand to you - you've got the base to benefit from this type of training.
Thanks - on behalf of the team - for the kind words and yes, personally, I love love how this thread has grown all these communal legs and is just running towards that finish line
Hi Kennyg, nice run! Good that you were comfortable although I will lay odds that you won't be saying that next week?! :pac:
JMSE glad you're getting the knee niggles sorted. Careful about running 'through it' though. Pain is a message from your body to you... :eek:
Well done on the 20/22.5, what's the plan for next week? Again, there's a danger that running your lsr too fast this weekend will result in you 'leaving it all out there' so dial back the pace drastically. However, you seem pretty confident you have a handle on it all
JacEim, good to see you back. Sounds like you tipped back into it nicely. Well done on second 20 miler. At first I thought hell, too fast but you're on a more advanced plan, aren't you? Still sounds suspiciously like a 20 mile PMP run?!
Could it be a bit late at this stage to run without water? Have you been doing this all along. I think the general consensus is to drink to thirst, and there will be plenty of water stations on the day so that shouldn't be a concern for you.0 -
All in now?? Shop closed after this lot anyway
Mrs Mc......what a difference 365 days makes, eh? So fitting this 20 mile-stone was exactly one year later. Funny what life throws at you
You've been doing everything so well and it all paid off today. You have your routine down pat ...and the Mc beags well-trained too Sounds like a very positive run alright, well done on leaving the negatives at home.
Solo is good, this is another aspect of your training (mental endurance) ticked off too.
Definitely try salt tabs on your next lsr (are you doing a PMP lsr too?). This run was really even splits too, all in all, I am raising my arms in the air for you too! :cool: Well done! Who'da thunk it when you started popping in to annapr's log earlier this year?!
Thanks DG yes have done a few LSRs at PMP the longest was 10miles in an 18 mile LSR. My plan this week sees my LSR go to 22 miles with 12 at PMP and then 20 at easy the following weekend. I taper then. But himself said we will review the next two weekends this week so this may change. I'd better go to bed I am on a curfew and no technology after 10 oooops I'm in trouble now... off to bed....0 -
Oops, too late to suggest hold fire on the 8 today Keep the pace easy easy easy between now and Thursday and considering your last (off-plan ) lsr was only saturday, no harm in keeping it at 18. Give yourself the option, depending on how the legs feel between now and Thursday I have a stick foam roller if you want to borrow it while you're away, I've a feeling you'll need it Thursday night after sitting in a plane for a few hours :eek:
Just in from the 8 miler.
Pace was very slow. First two miles were over 12 min/miles.
That loosened up the legs a bit and remaining 6 were around 11:20 (pmp+60).
Thanks for offer of stick roller. Will keep it in mind.0 -
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Hi and thanks dubgal, my plan for this week is rest til weds at least as Physio said, effectively I'll have lost a full week almost excluding the lsr , aim for a sheepish run weds.
It proves too that you have been right all along, too fast caused my quads to pull to much on my knee of something like that, but up from the ashes of disaster grow the roses of success......😇
Onwards Jim, you say that running is not a head job but I think your mental energy is going to bring you a long way on the day 0 -
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So this time four weeks, we'll all be sitting in McGrattan's, sinking a few cold ones and getting foot and back rubs from meno and FBOT....:cool:
REVIEW AND WEEK AHEAD
BOARDS
- had easy miles following the half with a 20 lsr at the weekend. Great reports, thanks everyone. Most of you have the finer details all ironed out by now. Not too late if you haven't nailed everything down yet. I'm sure your collective knowledge over the last few months has been enormously beneficial.
18 lsr this week....then....TAPER time
HHN1
- had a step back week and easy miles, 20 next week Nail this one, gear, fuelling, hydration...everything. And as FBOT says....ENJOY!
LSR, novices went 20 in the park And were very generously supported by duffer and daughter, again thank you!
Have a taste of the run here from Nop
THIS WEEK:
Neady, Peter d61, brenarr and a few others are doing the Athlone 3/4 to round off their training. Meno is the man to talk to here and will jump in over the next day or two with some advice on how to approach it please? this may be the first time he is hearing about this....:o
TRUST AND CONFIDENCE
TFGR's experience earlier this week prompted some discussion re confidence. This post sums up some really excellent strategies used by you guys to banish those inner demons. We'll do more of this over the next few weeks.
We also had a nice mid-point refreshing and honest analysis from ratracer and emsy1 re their probable approaches to the day. Again, nothing needs to be set in stone right now but worth considering all options.
But followed by a timely reminder from whoopsa that there is something at stake here
However, before you get that you may have to go through something like this.... thanks HibernianRunner!
NIGGLES
EK achilles, building cautiously, glad to see you on track
Duffer had a scare and is now ok (hamstring), easing back sensibly and cautiously, glad to hear
Whoopsa, not having the best time with weird calf bone build up byput keep the bigger picture in mind and remember the work you have done!
Diego b physio advice seems to be paying off...delighted
Chrislad everything behaving?
Wolfyboy knee, how are things?
Hupskip knee, how are you?
Singer, back and shoulders, is biting the bullet and seeing a physio. Great to hear!
Coolhandspan, hop flexor behaving, good!
SNIFFLES
Stevo man flu gone?
Betty swollox, how goes it? Recovered yet?
HELLO GOODBYE
Hello to healy and a few others are on their way in (haven't got the blood signature yet Welcome aboard all!
Goodbye to skittle8710, has had ongoing ill health/glandular fever. Wish you all the very best.
FFTW
Boards Curfew Blame FBOT for this
And remember....
We have ye sussed
On a serious note, you really should be banking sleep credit throughout October. The first person to point out what time this has been posted will get the full wrath of Clearlier set on you
And let's not forget, thanks to feenaM for this....
Happy running you crazy Marathon Runners 0 -
All in now?? Shop closed after this lot anyway
Argghhh missed the bus!!!
Big week last week, 43 miles in total.
Mon 4 miles @ 8:40 avg, lunchtime run, bit quick but felt okay after the HM. 2 mile warm-down/walk back to Parkgate Street did the trick!
Tues 4 miles @ 8:32 avg, again lunchtime run is a bit of a squeeze time-wise, but wasn't feeling any ill-effects after the Half.
Wed 8.5 miles @ 9:37 avg, run home from work, back on plan with the easy pace!
Thurs 7 miles @ 09:29, running back into work.
Sun 20 miles @ 9:39 avg. Very weird run this one. Was kinda looking forward to it for the previous couple of days, dead jealous about the group 20-miler on Saturday but enjoyed the LSR posts. Up at 7am, bowl of porridge and hit the road just after 8am, heading out to Clontarf/Sutton. Stopped to take a photo of a couple of ships leaving the port on a flat-calm sea, heading out into an early morning mist being burnt off by a deep-orange sun... simply stunning, the photo doesn't do it justice! Took a turn up Vernon Avenue and slipped into St Annes for an out-and-back on the park avenue there, where I passed a number of solo runners and a handful of groups also. Took a gel here as I wanted to see how an early gel would settle in my stomach over the following 15 or so miles. Next stop, petrol station for water and a toilet stop - not related to the gel thankfully, just the regular early morning plumbing waking up!
On out the Howth Road to Sutton, had to stop again for another toilet break, just the water this time! (tmi...????)
Rather than my usual route up towards the Head, I swung left at Sutton Cross, out towards Portmarnock, turning left to head back in towards Balgriffin. Wasn't familiar with this road, it started off with a path but I was soon running on the road.... a little dangerous, so I played it safe and stepped into the ditch when oncoming cars approached.
By the time I made the turn back towards Clare Hall, I was absolutely famished so I stopped off again at about 13m, this time in Tesco to grab and eat a banana, did a few stretches to ease out the calves (hat tip FeenaM via this weeks LSR reports) and headed on my way. Back into Fairview, and across Richmond Rd before turning back up Grace Park Road and Griffith Ave again. No wait, I tell a lie, I stopped for the umpteenth time, this time in Tesco Fairview for my third bottle of water (it was getting pretty hot!).
So after all my stopping and starting, how did I feel about this LSR? Impatient is the best word to sum it up. After about 5 miles, I just wanted to be finished. No pain, no lack of stamina, just impatience. Odd, I think I was missing the big-race feel of the previous weekend!
Sunday afternoon - dodged a trip to furniture shops to bring the kids into Stephens Green to enjoy the sunshine. The missus had a well-deserved hour to herself on Grafton St while I brought the kids to the playground, followed by ice-creams all round.... just little ones, of course!
Niggle-wise, left achilles starting to feel quite tight. Loosens up when running, but tightens up when I'm not on my feet. Must book that sports massage this week.0 -
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