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Persistent culinary myths

12346

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 210 ✭✭Tompatrick


    A drink rather than food myth:
    Poiteen was/is made from potatoes.

    No, no, no, no. Not true.
    Never was.

    Well you're incorrect there. Not exclusively spuds. But spuds are used in the manufacture.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,280 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    Tompatrick wrote: »
    Well you're incorrect there. Not exclusively spuds. But spuds are used in the manufacture.

    Of Irish poiteen, historically?
    Show me evidence.
    It makes no sense.
    Of course, alcohol can be made from potatoes, is made from potatoes and was made from potatoes but not by bootleggers up a mountain in rural Ireland avoiding the law.
    The only suggestion I've heard from anyone who has researched this that involved potatoes is the possibility that the hot water from boiling pots of potatoes might have been used in the mash but that is speculation.

    Apart from commonly held ideas, why do you suggest that potatoes are/were used in the process?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops



    Apart from commonly held ideas, why do you suggest that potatoes are/were used in the process?

    Because they are cheap and easily accessible?

    Are you suggesting potato vodka is a myth?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 210 ✭✭Tompatrick


    Of Irish poiteen, historically?
    Show me evidence.
    It makes no sense.
    Of course, alcohol can be made from potatoes, is made from potatoes and was made from potatoes but not by bootleggers up a mountain in rural Ireland avoiding the law.
    The only suggestion I've heard from anyone who has researched this that involved potatoes is the possibility that the hot water from boiling pots of potatoes might have been used in the mash but that is speculation.

    Apart from commonly held ideas, why do you suggest that potatoes are/were used in the process?

    https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/C-376.aspx



    http://www.yourirish.com/poitin

    http://www.independent.ie/life/the-spirit-of-the-irish-31071185.html


    Etc etc etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Tompatrick wrote: »

    In fairness, the independent is about as trust worthy as that astrologist they used to have on live at 3.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,280 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    Tompatrick wrote: »

    One of those is just a header on a Scotch whisky sales site.

    The next is a recipe blogger.

    The last is by a journalist who doesn't know the difference between proof and ABV.

    Hardly credible sources.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,280 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    syklops wrote: »
    Because they are cheap and easily accessible?

    Are you suggesting potato vodka is a myth?

    I'm not suggesting that large scale potato alcohol production is a myth.

    Potatoes are bulky and relatively low in sugars that are not easy to extract. You need an vast amount of potatoes to make a small amount of alcohol. It really doesn't make any sense that producers were doing it in secret in inaccessible locations.
    I have yet to be presented with any evidence that goes beyond folklore or heresay to suggest that poiteen was made from potatoes and I have spoken to people in the industry who have done quite a bit of research.
    No doubt, someone, somewhere did actually make poiteen from spuds but it was never commonly used.
    No doubt, somebody somewhere made hooch out of turnips too but we don't hold true that poiteen is made from turnips.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 210 ✭✭Tompatrick


    One of those is just a header on a Scotch whisky sales site.

    The next is a recipe blogger.

    The last is by a journalist who doesn't know the difference between proof and ABV.

    Hardly credible sources.

    So what? You're obviously incorrect. A cursory look on the net brings these up. I couldn't be bothered looking any more as you are being deliberately obtuse.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,685 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Tompatrick wrote: »
    So what? You're obviously incorrect. A cursory look on the net brings these up. I couldn't be bothered looking any more as you are being deliberately obtuse.

    The links you are posted are simply reiterating the notion that it's made from spuds. Hardly proof of anything.
    A drink rather than food myth:
    Poiteen was/is made from potatoes.

    No, no, no, no. Not true.
    Never was.
    A myth that it was exclusively made from spuds. Absolutely.

    But "never" may be a bit extreme. It would make the most sense to make it from whatever was availible. Various grains would obviously give you more carbs per kilo. Probably 4 times more. I But with nothing else availible or not enough grain for a full batch, if sure they have no problem supplementing with spuds.

    But yeah, I think they are a bit bulky to be a main source of starch.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    Used to?

    My mother referred to it as 'gravy' when we were growing up!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,037 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Just back to the lasagne sheets for a minute tks.

    Do you soak them in hot or cold water?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,110 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dizzyblonde


    I soak them in cold water, as suggested by someone here on the forum. It doesn't cook them but it makes them start to soften so they cook through properly in the oven.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,911 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Myth: Chorizo should be in paella (like cream in carbonara but it doesn't stop people doing it)


  • Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Username exists


    duploelabs wrote: »
    Myth: Chorizo should be in paella (like cream in carbonara but it doesn't stop people doing it)

    Real Spanish Paella doesn't have chorizo in it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    duploelabs wrote: »
    Myth: Chorizo should be in paella (like cream in carbonara but it doesn't stop people doing it)


    Isn't Paella one of those peasant dishes though where different regions have different types, or is this really a hard and fast rule?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Isn't Paella one of those peasant dishes though where different regions have different types, or is this really a hard and fast rule?

    Yeah I thought Paella is like irish Stew, every Spannish mama has a slightly different method.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,911 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    syklops wrote: »
    Yeah I thought Paella is like irish Stew, every Spannish mama has a slightly different method.

    Well, Yes there are variations in the extra bits, chicken, rabbit, peas, snails, seafood, all regional variations. Then there are staples that make it standard throughout like rice, peppers, saffron, stock. And one of those staples is that it doesn't have chorizo in it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    duploelabs wrote: »
    Well, Yes there are variations in the extra bits, chicken, rabbit, peas, snails, seafood, all regional variations. Then there are staples that make it standard throughout like rice, peppers, saffron, stock. And one of those staples is that it doesn't have chorizo in it.

    So we are back to the poitin then.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,911 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    syklops wrote: »
    So we are back to the poitin then.

    No, paella may have many things in it. But it definitely does not have chorizo in it. I was told by my spanish colleagues (in a spanish company) this is was as culturally insensitive as calling the 17th of March 'St. Patty's day'


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    syklops wrote: »
    So we are back to the poitin then.

    Is there chorizo in poitin? :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,186 ✭✭✭dee_mc


    kylith wrote: »
    Is there chorizo in poitin? :pac:

    NO
    There's often salami though :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,685 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    duploelabs wrote: »
    No, paella may have many things in it. But it definitely does not have chorizo in it. I was told by my spanish colleagues (in a spanish company) this is was as culturally insensitive as calling the 17th of March 'St. Patty's day'

    Are you saying that paella doesn't have to have chorizo in it, and typical won't have it in it in Spain. Which makes sense.
    Or are you saying that paella should never have chorizo - which I find I bit weird. Sure, a mixed meat paella with chorizo might not be a traditional Valencian paella, but I don't think its any less a paella.

    Using the stew example. An irish stew is made with lamb or mutton. If I decided to make a kangaroo stew, its obviously not a traditional irish stew, but its still a stew.

    Maybe i'm being insensitive to the ownership Spaniards feel they have over "Paella".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,911 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    There's no way one can make parallels between Irish and Spanish cuisines. I'm saying paella shouldn't have chorizo in it at all. But as I said earlier, just because carbonara shouldn't have cream in it doesn't stop people adding it (or peas, or mushroom, or onion) however to ensure the authenticity of the dish then it shouldn't be added


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    duploelabs wrote: »
    There's no way one can make parallels between Irish and Spanish cuisines. I'm saying paella shouldn't have chorizo in it at all. But as I said earlier, just because carbonara shouldn't have cream in it doesn't stop people adding it (or peas, or mushroom, or onion) however to ensure the authenticity of the dish then it shouldn't be added

    But adding cream to a carbonara makes it a totally different dish; it changes it from an egg sauce to a cream sauce. Throwing a bit of chorizo into a paella just means it's a paella with a bit of chorizo in it.


    When it comes to regional variations I find that it's great fun to get two Italians together, then ask how to make a Bolognese.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭nompere


    I was quite taken by this story from the Guardian, a couple of months ago,
    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jul/06/lunches-around-the-world-summer-food-special, and in particular this quotation

    "The chef, Pasquale, will then cook us a pasta. But we don’t know what it is. It’s a surprise. He has a lot of imagination and revisits traditional recipes. My favourite is a spaghetti alla carbonara that he makes with tuna and courgette."

    I know it's only one diner and one chef, but it does sometimes seem that Irish people get more exercised by "authenticity" than the locals.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,383 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    duploelabs wrote: »
    There's no way one can make parallels between Irish and Spanish cuisines.
    I thought it was a great comparison, as would the shepherds's pie lamb/beef issue.

    duploelabs wrote: »
    Myth: Chorizo should be in paella (like cream in carbonara but it doesn't stop people doing it)
    What exactly is the myth that people think persists? are people saying there are people out there who insist an authentic carbonara has cream, and an authentic paella has chorizo? As I have never heard of this ever, it is always the opposite, a quick look online I can see nobody arguing for it and nobody claiming it. Some prefer it of course.

    It would be like saying "Myth: chicken curry should be served with frozen chips deep fried in week old oil" -plenty like it like that but I doubt they think its authentic. Now that is more extreme and obvious, I do not eat paella and had no idea if it should traditionally contain chorizo or not, so I would not be making claims unless I read it was supposed to, and I can see no such claims.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,005 ✭✭✭✭Toto Wolfcastle


    I was in Italy recently and I had spaghetti alla carbonara 3 times. (I never eat it at home so I got stuck in over there!) Twice it was made with just egg, and once it had cream. I threw the one with cream back in the waiter's face and stormed out shouting 'how dare you serve me such inauthentic food. Boards will be hearing about this.' :mad: Not really, I ate it and it authentic or not, it was nice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,936 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    rubadub wrote: »
    What exactly is the myth that people think persists? are people saying there are people out there who insist an authentic carbonara has cream

    I feel you're just overthinking this. A lot of people when they think of carbonara or when they make it themselves, they use cream. They simply don't know that an authentic carbonara does not have cream in it :)

    I love this clip by the way - Rick Stein doing a proper carbonara. Highly recommended!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,383 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    unkel wrote: »
    I feel you're just overthinking this.
    I am just saying people are not stating exactly what the supposed myth is and its leading to needless debates.

    It's more like a list of "recommendations I do not follow".
    unkel wrote: »
    They simply don't know that an authentic carbonara does not have cream in it
    Yep, none of them seem to be claiming authentic carbonara does have cream.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Thud wrote: »
    I remember seeing a test to see how good a poteen was, was to light a spoonful of it, if it left any residue or coloured residue it was bad, a clean spoon was good. That stuff burned off quickly but it would have had a much higher % alcohol than normal spirits

    Now that's a myth all right; it certainly won't test if bleach or blue bag have been added, or if it's been made in a lead-containing bathtub (all common causes of blindness, madness and death for poitín drinkers in the good old days).
    StonyIron wrote: »
    Red wine should never be chilled.
    You can actually do whatever you like with it!

    My da used to shake the bejasus out of cheap red wine, then decant it from a height into a jug. Saw a winemaker in Portugal doing the same! It oxidises the wine quickly and makes it tastier.
    katemarch wrote: »
    The Bitter White Pith myth.

    I also read somewhere ages ago that citrus pith is a good source of some obscure B vitamin, but maybe that's a myth too.

    Vitamin K, I was told - the one they give you in an injection after giving birth, to clot the blood faster. Haven't googled it, though, that's ancestral memory :pac:
    Neyite wrote: »
    One thing that I think is a sad side effect of best-before dates is that people are losing their ability to judge when food is still good or not.

    So true. Gels nowadays don't know to wiggle a duckling's beak to make sure it's young and tender, or to tear a rabbit's ear for the same reason.
    Tarzana2 wrote: »
    I have never met a fresh egg that floated and I have done this a lot. (I crack the floaters to check) And none of the sinkers have ever been rotten. Works for me!

    When I kept hens, that test worked. Wouldn't do it, though - washing the shells allows bacteria through. I break each egg into a cup as I go, then dump it into the dish being cooked or baked.
    endacl wrote: »
    That Brussels sprouts are nice.

    :(

    It's in your genes: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2077713/Its-genes-Scientists-brussel-new-research-love-hate-sprouts.html

    I love them. I'm currently growing a kale-brussels-sprout cross which is reputedly delicious (but maybe not to people with the gene http://www.compoundchem.com/2014/12/04/brusselssprouts/)

    I looove sprouts, which taste quite sweet to me.
    Never heard of the bread soda in cabbage water thing, what's it supposed to do?

    As others have said, it was used to keep the cabbage green. In those days cabbage was boiled for an hour. Nowadays, when we cook it for 10 minutes or so, it stays green anyway.

    Myself, I use the delicious water left after bacon-and-cabbage as a stock for the next day's lentil soup. Yum!

    As for mushrooms, I reflexively peel them, having been told by a grower years ago that mushrooms (cultivated rather than wild) were treated with more insecticide than any other vegetable, lettuce coming a close second. Nowadays, with insecticides being systemic - throughout the whole plant rather than sprayed on the surface - I'm probably wasting my time, but still do it… Wild mushrooms I'd drop quickly into salty cold water and swoosh them around for a while in case they're hosting any extra… protein.

    Two book recommendations: Darina Allen's Forgotten Skills of Cooking http://www.ballymaloeshop.ie/index.php/forgotten-skills-of-cooking-hardcover.html and Carla Emery's Encyclopedia of Country Living http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Country-Living-Anniversary-Edition/dp/1570618402


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Old Perry


    If its not authentic why does it say to add 50ml cream on the Schwartz Carbonara packet i buy? :-P


  • Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Old Perry wrote: »
    If its not authentic why does it say to add 50ml cream on the Schwartz Carbonara packet i buy? :-P

    With a name like Schwartz, I don't reckon they are authentically Italian. ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    kylith wrote: »
    Is there chorizo in poitin? :pac:

    Mostly baloney.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    When I kept hens, that test worked. Wouldn't do it, though - washing the shells allows bacteria through. I break each egg into a cup as I go, then dump it into the dish being cooked or baked.

    I only do the test when I'm using the eggs straight away, why would I do it then put them back in the fridge? :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Tarzana2 wrote: »
    I only do the test when I'm using the eggs straight away, why would I do it then put them back in the fridge? :confused:

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/09/11/336330502/why-the-u-s-chills-its-eggs-and-most-of-the-world-doesnt


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2



    I know that.

    This is how it goes. I want to, say, make an omelette. I have eggs, I'm not sure if they're off. So I do the test. They pass, they get used immediately. I don't put them back in the fridge. They don't, they're chucked out. Bacteria will only build up if you do the test then don't use them straight away. And cooking properly will see to any bacteria that is there, unless it's a raw egg dish.

    I'm not seeing your point at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,685 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    duploelabs wrote: »
    There's no way one can make parallels between Irish and Spanish cuisines.
    Why not? Serious question.

    Maybe coddle is a better analogue than stew.
    duploelabs wrote: »
    But as I said earlier, just because carbonara shouldn't have cream in it doesn't stop people adding it (or peas, or mushroom, or onion) however to ensure the authenticity of the dish then it shouldn't be added

    I'd see carbonara as a specific dish. Much like coq au vin, or stroganoff. Variation is possible, but the core is a main idea.

    Paella I'd see as a type of dish, like risotto.
    Traditional Valencian paella has chicken, paella mixta has whatever mixed meats are to hand - I don't understand why "prawn and chorizo paella" is not acceptable but "prawn and chicken paella" is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,685 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    My da used to shake the bejasus out of cheap red wine, then decant it from a height into a jug. Saw a winemaker in Portugal doing the same! It oxidises the wine quickly and makes it tastier.
    Same principle as letting it breath, oxidation.
    I've a small aerator than you pour red wine through into the glass. It's great with certain wines.
    When I kept hens, that test worked. Wouldn't do it, though - washing the shells allows bacteria through. I break each egg into a cup as I go, then dump it into the dish being cooked or baked.
    Removing the protective layer hardly makes a difference when your about to use the egg.
    Breaking the shell will let a lot more bacteria through


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Mellor wrote: »
    Removing the protective layer hardly makes a difference when your about to use the egg.

    Ah no, of course! I was talking about (as I understood it) people testing the eggs in water and then putting some aside.

    It's so unusual to get a rotten egg now, though… or a really fresh one, for that matter.

    In my henny days I used to write the date in pencil on the shells, especially when letting hens go broody on a setting of eggs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,685 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    It's so unusual to get a rotten egg now, though… or a really fresh one, for that matter.

    lol true.
    I'd love to know how long ago the eggs I eat were laid.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Mellor wrote: »
    lol true.
    I'd love to know how long ago the eggs I eat were laid.

    I'd love to see some local henners selling fresh-laid eggs in the farmers' markets!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    I'd love to see some local henners selling fresh-laid eggs in the farmers' markets!

    We gets eggs from my parents hens. They're so much nicer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    I asked the farmers. Answers may shock:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057495533


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,058 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    I've never water-tested or pre-cracked an egg in my life. Nor have I ever, even once in my life, come across a rotten egg. And I eat a lot of them. So, I dunno, testing every egg you ever use before you use it seems like a bit of a wasted effort for what appears to be a less-than-negligible risk.

    Wait'll you see, I'll get a rake of bad eggs now...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭StonyIron


    That's because eggs are all generally very tightly managed.

    European vs American ideas on egg washing are very different.

    American eggs are white because they wash off the egg with disinfecting solutions ASAP. This removes the cuticle which gives the egg its colour. It also opens up the pores and allows bacteria in.
    It's required by law there though.

    Meanwhile in the EU it's the opposite. They prefer the eggs left unwashed as it seals out bacteria with a bio active, live cuticle. Bear in mind eggs can survive this way in a nest...

    The EU has significantly less food poisoning per capita due to eggs.

    Not food safety advice, just an observation of a "cultural" difference.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    rubadub wrote: »
    I thought it was a great comparison, as would the shepherds's pie lamb/beef issue.



    Shepard's pie doesn't have a lamb/beef issue.

    Shepard's Pie is made with minced or shredded Lamb or mutton.

    Cottage Pie is made with beef.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    Shepard's pie doesn't have a lamb/beef issue.

    Shepard's Pie is made with minced or shredded Lamb or mutton.

    Cottage Pie is made with beef.

    Absolutely. How can people still make this mistake? It's literally in the name..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Whispered wrote: »
    We gets eggs from my parents hens. They're so much nicer.

    I'd love to try a freshly-laid egg. I don't think I've ever had one.

    Actually, at the wedding venue I stayed in for my sister's wedding, they had their own hens, so I likely had freshly-laid or at least quite fresh eggs for my brekkie the next morning. Problem was, I was horrifically hungover/still slightly drunk and don't really remember them. :-/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    I've never water-tested or pre-cracked an egg in my life. Nor have I ever, even once in my life, come across a rotten egg. And I eat a lot of them. So, I dunno, testing every egg you ever use before you use it seems like a bit of a wasted effort for what appears to be a less-than-negligible risk.

    It takes, like, 10 seconds to do per egg. And I only test ones that have gone past the use-by date, not ones within the date. (which yes, I know, might be rotten for whatever reason, but it's highly unlikely) So very few eggs get tested really, as they usually get gobbled up well before the use-by date in my house. It's no effort at all to do the little test and, as said before, the science behind it is solid.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,685 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    So, I dunno, testing every egg you ever use before you use it seems like a bit of a wasted effort for what appears to be a less-than-negligible risk.
    I barely ever test them, I'll usually go through a dozen a week, they're never around long.
    But on the rare occasions I've left a couple sitting there for a while, or if eggs from a few boxes are mixed up. I might test them if I'm unsure how long they are sitting.
    Shepard's pie doesn't have a lamb/beef issue.

    Shepard's Pie is made with minced or shredded Lamb or mutton.

    Cottage Pie is made with beef.
    That's absolutely correct. But I'd hazard a guess that a lot of the time when people (in ireland) say they are making sheppards pie for dinner, they use beef mince. In that they are making cottage pie but calling if Shepards pie.


This discussion has been closed.
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