Persistent culinary myths

Markcheese

duploelabs wrote: »

Nothing like anecdotal evidence to prove a scientific research. Oil in pasta water does not work

Oil in pasta cooking water may not stop the pasta sticking during cooking.. but if the oil coats the cooked pasta as you drain it then the pasta won't stick together -

kylith

dee_mc wrote: »

I cook my pasta without adding oil and I give it a stir at the beginning and again towards the end... and I have to add it to the sauce the second it's drained, otherwise it sticks. Never happened when I added oil. So IMO it works, but I got out of the habit of using it when someone confidently declared that it didn't work and was just a waste of oil!

Yeah, it'll stick together when it cools, and if you're not using a sauce that'd be the time to dress it in a bit of oil. No point if you're going to put sauce on in though.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

Tompatrick

duploelabs wrote: »

Nothing like anecdotal evidence to prove a scientific research. Oil in pasta water does not work

And vice versa. It does work.

BaZmO*

duploelabs wrote: »

Nothing like anecdotal evidence to prove a scientific research. Oil in pasta water does not work

Scientific research? I'd love to see that if you could post a link please.


I used to always add oil to the water and never had problems with it sticking. I think I originally got the tip from a TV chef. Then I heard other TV chefs saying that there is no need to add oil and that it's a waste of oil, so I stopped doing it, and the pasta kept sticking together.

I was complaining about the pasta sticking to the OH recently and she said that I should add some oil but I insisted that it was just a myth and that it doesn't work, but she insisted that it does work. So anyway, I've been adding oil since then and I haven't had a problem with it sticking.

Now you might be able to provide me with some amazing scientific research that says the contrary but the simple fact remains that when I add oil it doesn't stick and when I don't add oil it sticks. It may be considered anecdotal evidence but why would I stop doing it if it works for me?

Jawgap

kylith wrote: »

Stephen Fry says that mussels that don't open when you cook them are fine to eat.

I haven't been able to work up the nerve to try it out though.

Perfectly true - it goes back to Fanny Craddock who started that one.

Some mussels are just tough and the 'muscle' holding the shell closed is a bit stronger, that's all.

This is a great book for explaining and exploring what goes on in the kitchen and when we cook food......

MissFlitworth

^^^^^^^

*adds to Amazon Wishlist*

That looks fab Jawgap! I'll be giving that a read pronto.

Jawgap

MissFlitworth wrote: »

^^^^^^^

*adds to Amazon Wishlist*

That looks fab Jawgap! I'll be giving that a read pronto.

In the interim, follow him online......

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/harold_mcgee/index.html

He writes regularly in the New York Times and there's a (free) online EdX course you can do where he tutored.

EDIT: Actually his website is probably better for getting articles - http://curiouscook.com/

MissFlitworth

Awesome, Jawgap! Although my office might be pm'ing you with a bill for my missed hours today, so many interesting articles there...

the beer revolu

I had an argument on here not so long ago regarding the seal/sear thing.
They absolutely insisted that the seal idea worked as described for them. Got quite upset about it, too.
It is a very persistent myth.

BaZmO*

the beer revolu wrote: »

I had an argument on here not so long ago regarding the seal/sear thing.
They absolutely insisted that the seal idea worked as described for them. Got quite upset about it, too.
It is a very persistent myth.

Heston covered it (and debunked it) on one of his shows.

Carawaystick

BaZmO* wrote: »

I used to always add oil to the water and never had problems with it sticking. I ...
I stopped doing it, and the pasta kept sticking together.

Is the pasta sticking in the pot of water cooking without oil, or after draining?
Are you stirring the pasta while cooking with and without oil?

duploelabs

BaZmO* wrote: »

Scientific research? I'd love to see that if you could post a link please.


I used to always add oil to the water and never had problems with it sticking. I think I originally got the tip from a TV chef. Then I heard other TV chefs saying that there is no need to add oil and that it's a waste of oil, so I stopped doing it, and the pasta kept sticking together.

I was complaining about the pasta sticking to the OH recently and she said that I should add some oil but I insisted that it was just a myth and that it doesn't work, but she insisted that it does work. So anyway, I've been adding oil since then and I haven't had a problem with it sticking.

Now you might be able to provide me with some amazing scientific research that says the contrary but the simple fact remains that when I add oil it doesn't stick and when I don't add oil it sticks. It may be considered anecdotal evidence but why would I stop doing it if it works for me?

Well what happens with the sticking pasta is due to the starch being leeched during the cooking process, an acid in the water will help to dissolve this but is not commonly employed as it affect the flavour of the pasta. Oil will not homogenize with the water and hence will not adhere to the pasta thus will not affect any frictional qualities of the pasta.

If you'd like to know more, I suggest you read the harold McGee book quoted in a previous post or you can buy it here.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/McGee-Food-Cooking-Encyclopedia-Kitchen/dp/0340831499
It is the forefront of the scientific method being the culinary arts and is referenced by everyone when asked about the science being cooking. Scientific method being the key as it ensures that repeated process' and methods produce identical results, essential to a professional environment.
What do I know about it? well these are process' I have learnt from having a professional culinary training and also many years working in professional kitchens as well as running my own food production business.
If you feel you'd like to address your concerns about my professional knowledge in person, please come and attend my talk in the theatre of food at the Electric Picnic where I will be speaking alongside the likes of Kevin thornton, JP McMahon, Martin Shanahan, and Kwanghi Chang. What will I be speaking about??
The Science of Food and Cooking!

P.s the simpsons sums up how anecdotal evidence works, tiger-proof rocks!

duploelabs

Markcheese wrote: »

Oil in pasta cooking water may not stop the pasta sticking during cooking.. but if the oil coats the cooked pasta as you drain it then the pasta won't stick together -

Yeah, when you drain the pasta it will stock it sticking then if you add the oil when it's drained as it seals the pasta against the starch bonding each pasta piece together

Subcomandante Marcos

But the freshly cooked pasta should be going directly into whatever sauce/dressing it's being served with instantly anyway, so no need for all that extra oil anyway :P

rubadub

There is usually some truth behind these "myths". Like did someone start searing beef and say it tastes nicer and someone asks why they reckon it is and they mistakenly say/guessed "I reckon it seals in the moisture".

The the pasta thing the oil is also said to stop frothing, this would mean people may be able to heat it at a higher power than normal. This higher power would usually cause more natural stirring to go on.

So if doing side by side testing it may not actually reflect what people are doing and seeing.

I have been surprised at some of Heston's instructions too, being less exact and scientific than I would have expected.

Loire

Minder wrote: »

Frying meat seals in the juices. Debunked. Malliard reaction creates flavour compounds, but the juiciness of a piece of meat is only effected by the temperature it is cooked at.

Hi Minder,

Anytime I cook a stew or lasagne etc, I'll brown the meat in a pan first. Are you saying not to bother?

Thanks,
Loire.

Loire

Just on the pasta thing. For me, anytime I use cheap pasta it sticks, anytime I use something decent it doesn't. If I'm going to re-heat pasta later on (cook ahead), I will drain in a colander with cold running water. Then I'll drissle oil over it in a bowl.

The Hill Billy

Loire wrote: »

Hi Minder,

Anytime I cook a stew or lasagne etc, I'll brown the meat in a pan first. Are you saying not to bother?

Thanks,
Loire.

It's still worth browning to get the flavours enhanced in the meat.

Minder

Loire wrote: »

Hi Minder,

Anytime I cook a stew or lasagne etc, I'll brown the meat in a pan first. Are you saying not to bother?

Thanks,
Loire.

No, you must brown the meat to get that malliard reaction and develop the flavour. But it doesn't seal in juices.

Loire

Minder wrote: »

No, you must brown the meat to get that malliard reaction and develop the flavour. But it doesn't seal in juices.

Gotcha!

duploelabs

Loire wrote: »

Hi Minder,

Anytime I cook a stew or lasagne etc, I'll brown the meat in a pan first. Are you saying not to bother?

Thanks,
Loire.

Just don't throw all the mince in to the pan at once. By doing that you lower the temperature of the pan and the meat will boil and not brown . just do it in small batches

The Bishop Basher

duploelabs wrote: »

Other than if you're coeliac, reducing gluten has a health benefit

I'm not coeliac but have immediate and significant health improvements when I reduce Gluten.

I'm intrigued that this would be considered a myth.

I've googled and read plenty on this but would be interested to know how you came to a definitive answer

L1011

Swanner wrote: »

I'm not coeliac but have immediate and significant health improvements when I reduce Gluten.

I'm intrigued that this would be considered a myth.

I've googled and read plenty on this but would be interested to know how you came to a definitive answer

Huge range of potential answers from "its psychological" through to reactions to the other elements involved in heavily processed white bread products which are what most people eat here.

I've had the interesting experience of someone telling me they had severe reactions to gluten (but not cealiac) while downing a Heineken. And another Heineken after that. Further talking turned out they felt bloated after eating generic white sliced pan sandwiches. That's not the gluten...

Faith

Swanner wrote: »

I'm not coeliac but have immediate and significant health improvements when I reduce Gluten.

I'm intrigued that this would be considered a myth.

I've googled and read plenty on this but would be interested to know how you came to a definitive answer

Researchers (including the guy who first identified the idea of 'non-coeliac gluten sensitivity') have now found compelling evidence that gluten isn't the problem at all, but FODMAPs. There's a good article about it here (I can't find the exact original paper right now).

37 subjects took part, all confirmed not to have celiac disease but whose gastrointestinal symptoms improved on a gluten-free diet, thus fulfilling the diagnostic criteria for non-celiac gluten sensitivity ... Analyzing the data, Gibson found that each treatment diet, whether it included gluten or not, prompted subjects to report a worsening of gastrointestinal symptoms to similar degrees.

Toto Wolfcastle

I've been keeping a food diary for the last few weeks to see which of the high FODMAP foods trigger my suspected IBS and the one thing that has stood out has been wheat. Since removing it as much as possible from my diet the uncomfortable bloating has disappeared. I don't really care whether it's the gluten or something else as long as I feel better. There was a dietician on the radio last week that said that new research has found that it's not the gluten, but something else.

I'd kill for a bowl of pasta though, with or without oil in the water.

BaZmO*

duploelabs wrote: »

Well what happens with the sticking pasta is due to the starch being leeched during the cooking process, an acid in the water will help to dissolve this but is not commonly employed as it affect the flavour of the pasta. Oil will not homogenize with the water and hence will not adhere to the pasta thus will not affect any frictional qualities of the pasta.

I know the reason why it sticks but it's the adding of the oil that stops the pasta from initially sticking together.

It's funny you reference that book from Harold McGee because in the section about cooking pasta he says the following;

"Sticking can be minimized by constantly stirring the noodles for the first few minutes of cooking, or by adding a spoonful or two of oil to the pot and then lifting the noodles through the water surface a few times to lubricate them."

That's exactly what I do when cooking spaghetti, and as I've said, it works....for me anyway.

duploelabs wrote: »

If you feel you'd like to address your concerns about my professional knowledge in person, please come and attend my talk in the theatre of food at the Electric Picnic where I will be speaking alongside the likes of Kevin thornton, JP McMahon, Martin Shanahan, and Kwanghi Chang. What will I be speaking about??
The Science of Food and Cooking!

It's a bit pointless naming off a load of chefs because it's normally the chefs that are giving the contradicting info in the first place. I always listen to what someone has to say on the matter and then try it out myself and decide whether or not it works in practice.

duploelabs wrote: »

P.s the simpsons sums up how anecdotal evidence works, tiger-proof rocks!

That's not the same as the anecdotal evidence that I'm providing. I've tried both methods and decided to do the one that works for me.

Pistachios & cream

Toto Wolfcastle wrote: »

I've been keeping a food diary for the last few weeks to see which of the high FODMAP foods trigger my suspected IBS and the one thing that has stood out has been wheat. Since removing it as much as possible from my diet the uncomfortable bloating has disappeared. I don't really care whether it's the gluten or something else as long as I feel better. There was a dietician on the radio last week that said that new research has found that it's not the gluten, but something else.

I'd kill for a bowl of pasta though, with or without oil in the water.

My mother is allergic to wheat but not gluten.S o she can eat rye bread etc that doesn't include wheat flour. However she finds that most gluten free breads don't suit her.

duploelabs

BaZmO* wrote: »

That's not the same as the anecdotal evidence that I'm providing. I've tried both methods and decided to do the one that works for me.

see you at EP so

Dolbert

Toto Wolfcastle wrote: »

I've been keeping a food diary for the last few weeks to see which of the high FODMAP foods trigger my suspected IBS and the one thing that has stood out has been wheat. Since removing it as much as possible from my diet the uncomfortable bloating has disappeared. I don't really care whether it's the gluten or something else as long as I feel better. There was a dietician on the radio last week that said that new research has found that it's not the gluten, but something else.

I'd kill for a bowl of pasta though, with or without oil in the water.

Funnily enough, my husband finds that pasta etc doesn't affect his suspected IBS much at all. The worst possible FODMAP foods for him are garlic and onion, they affect him instantly. It took ages to discover that as garlic is normally renowned for its health benefits. This makes cooking our former favourites a challenge