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Persistent culinary myths

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    #272
    dee_mc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,176 ✭✭✭dee_mc


    kylith wrote: »
    Is there chorizo in poitin? :pac:

    NO
    There's often salami though :D


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    #273
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,114 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    duploelabs wrote: »
    No, paella may have many things in it. But it definitely does not have chorizo in it. I was told by my spanish colleagues (in a spanish company) this is was as culturally insensitive as calling the 17th of March 'St. Patty's day'

    Are you saying that paella doesn't have to have chorizo in it, and typical won't have it in it in Spain. Which makes sense.
    Or are you saying that paella should never have chorizo - which I find I bit weird. Sure, a mixed meat paella with chorizo might not be a traditional Valencian paella, but I don't think its any less a paella.

    Using the stew example. An irish stew is made with lamb or mutton. If I decided to make a kangaroo stew, its obviously not a traditional irish stew, but its still a stew.

    Maybe i'm being insensitive to the ownership Spaniards feel they have over "Paella".


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    #274
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,172 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    There's no way one can make parallels between Irish and Spanish cuisines. I'm saying paella shouldn't have chorizo in it at all. But as I said earlier, just because carbonara shouldn't have cream in it doesn't stop people adding it (or peas, or mushroom, or onion) however to ensure the authenticity of the dish then it shouldn't be added


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    #275
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    duploelabs wrote: »
    There's no way one can make parallels between Irish and Spanish cuisines. I'm saying paella shouldn't have chorizo in it at all. But as I said earlier, just because carbonara shouldn't have cream in it doesn't stop people adding it (or peas, or mushroom, or onion) however to ensure the authenticity of the dish then it shouldn't be added

    But adding cream to a carbonara makes it a totally different dish; it changes it from an egg sauce to a cream sauce. Throwing a bit of chorizo into a paella just means it's a paella with a bit of chorizo in it.


    When it comes to regional variations I find that it's great fun to get two Italians together, then ask how to make a Bolognese.


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    #276
    nompere
    Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭nompere


    I was quite taken by this story from the Guardian, a couple of months ago,
    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jul/06/lunches-around-the-world-summer-food-special, and in particular this quotation

    "The chef, Pasquale, will then cook us a pasta. But we don’t know what it is. It’s a surprise. He has a lot of imagination and revisits traditional recipes. My favourite is a spaghetti alla carbonara that he makes with tuna and courgette."

    I know it's only one diner and one chef, but it does sometimes seem that Irish people get more exercised by "authenticity" than the locals.


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    #277
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,378 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    duploelabs wrote: »
    There's no way one can make parallels between Irish and Spanish cuisines.
    I thought it was a great comparison, as would the shepherds's pie lamb/beef issue.

    duploelabs wrote: »
    Myth: Chorizo should be in paella (like cream in carbonara but it doesn't stop people doing it)
    What exactly is the myth that people think persists? are people saying there are people out there who insist an authentic carbonara has cream, and an authentic paella has chorizo? As I have never heard of this ever, it is always the opposite, a quick look online I can see nobody arguing for it and nobody claiming it. Some prefer it of course.

    It would be like saying "Myth: chicken curry should be served with frozen chips deep fried in week old oil" -plenty like it like that but I doubt they think its authentic. Now that is more extreme and obvious, I do not eat paella and had no idea if it should traditionally contain chorizo or not, so I would not be making claims unless I read it was supposed to, and I can see no such claims.


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    #278
    Toto Wolfcastle
    Registered Users Posts: 25,005 ✭✭✭✭Toto Wolfcastle


    I was in Italy recently and I had spaghetti alla carbonara 3 times. (I never eat it at home so I got stuck in over there!) Twice it was made with just egg, and once it had cream. I threw the one with cream back in the waiter's face and stormed out shouting 'how dare you serve me such inauthentic food. Boards will be hearing about this.' :mad: Not really, I ate it and it authentic or not, it was nice.


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    #279
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,003 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    rubadub wrote: »
    What exactly is the myth that people think persists? are people saying there are people out there who insist an authentic carbonara has cream

    I feel you're just overthinking this. A lot of people when they think of carbonara or when they make it themselves, they use cream. They simply don't know that an authentic carbonara does not have cream in it :)

    I love this clip by the way - Rick Stein doing a proper carbonara. Highly recommended!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1cUwX4Xzt0


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    #280
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,378 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    unkel wrote: »
    I feel you're just overthinking this.
    I am just saying people are not stating exactly what the supposed myth is and its leading to needless debates.

    It's more like a list of "recommendations I do not follow".
    unkel wrote: »
    They simply don't know that an authentic carbonara does not have cream in it
    Yep, none of them seem to be claiming authentic carbonara does have cream.


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    #281
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Thud wrote: »
    I remember seeing a test to see how good a poteen was, was to light a spoonful of it, if it left any residue or coloured residue it was bad, a clean spoon was good. That stuff burned off quickly but it would have had a much higher % alcohol than normal spirits

    Now that's a myth all right; it certainly won't test if bleach or blue bag have been added, or if it's been made in a lead-containing bathtub (all common causes of blindness, madness and death for poitín drinkers in the good old days).
    StonyIron wrote: »
    Red wine should never be chilled.
    You can actually do whatever you like with it!

    My da used to shake the bejasus out of cheap red wine, then decant it from a height into a jug. Saw a winemaker in Portugal doing the same! It oxidises the wine quickly and makes it tastier.
    katemarch wrote: »
    The Bitter White Pith myth.

    I also read somewhere ages ago that citrus pith is a good source of some obscure B vitamin, but maybe that's a myth too.

    Vitamin K, I was told - the one they give you in an injection after giving birth, to clot the blood faster. Haven't googled it, though, that's ancestral memory :pac:
    Neyite wrote: »
    One thing that I think is a sad side effect of best-before dates is that people are losing their ability to judge when food is still good or not.

    So true. Gels nowadays don't know to wiggle a duckling's beak to make sure it's young and tender, or to tear a rabbit's ear for the same reason.
    Tarzana2 wrote: »
    I have never met a fresh egg that floated and I have done this a lot. (I crack the floaters to check) And none of the sinkers have ever been rotten. Works for me!

    When I kept hens, that test worked. Wouldn't do it, though - washing the shells allows bacteria through. I break each egg into a cup as I go, then dump it into the dish being cooked or baked.
    endacl wrote: »
    That Brussels sprouts are nice.

    :(

    It's in your genes: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2077713/Its-genes-Scientists-brussel-new-research-love-hate-sprouts.html

    I love them. I'm currently growing a kale-brussels-sprout cross which is reputedly delicious (but maybe not to people with the gene http://www.compoundchem.com/2014/12/04/brusselssprouts/)

    I looove sprouts, which taste quite sweet to me.
    Diamond Doll wrote: »
    Never heard of the bread soda in cabbage water thing, what's it supposed to do?

    As others have said, it was used to keep the cabbage green. In those days cabbage was boiled for an hour. Nowadays, when we cook it for 10 minutes or so, it stays green anyway.

    Myself, I use the delicious water left after bacon-and-cabbage as a stock for the next day's lentil soup. Yum!

    As for mushrooms, I reflexively peel them, having been told by a grower years ago that mushrooms (cultivated rather than wild) were treated with more insecticide than any other vegetable, lettuce coming a close second. Nowadays, with insecticides being systemic - throughout the whole plant rather than sprayed on the surface - I'm probably wasting my time, but still do it… Wild mushrooms I'd drop quickly into salty cold water and swoosh them around for a while in case they're hosting any extra… protein.

    Two book recommendations: Darina Allen's Forgotten Skills of Cooking http://www.ballymaloeshop.ie/index.php/forgotten-skills-of-cooking-hardcover.html and Carla Emery's Encyclopedia of Country Living http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Country-Living-Anniversary-Edition/dp/1570618402


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    #282
    Old Perry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Old Perry


    If its not authentic why does it say to add 50ml cream on the Schwartz Carbonara packet i buy? :-P


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    #283
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Old Perry wrote: »
    If its not authentic why does it say to add 50ml cream on the Schwartz Carbonara packet i buy? :-P

    With a name like Schwartz, I don't reckon they are authentically Italian. ;)


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    #284
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    kylith wrote: »
    Is there chorizo in poitin? :pac:

    Mostly baloney.


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    #285
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    When I kept hens, that test worked. Wouldn't do it, though - washing the shells allows bacteria through. I break each egg into a cup as I go, then dump it into the dish being cooked or baked.

    I only do the test when I'm using the eggs straight away, why would I do it then put them back in the fridge? :confused:


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    #286
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Tarzana2 wrote: »
    I only do the test when I'm using the eggs straight away, why would I do it then put them back in the fridge? :confused:

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/09/11/336330502/why-the-u-s-chills-its-eggs-and-most-of-the-world-doesnt


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    #287
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/09/11/336330502/why-the-u-s-chills-its-eggs-and-most-of-the-world-doesnt

    I know that.

    This is how it goes. I want to, say, make an omelette. I have eggs, I'm not sure if they're off. So I do the test. They pass, they get used immediately. I don't put them back in the fridge. They don't, they're chucked out. Bacteria will only build up if you do the test then don't use them straight away. And cooking properly will see to any bacteria that is there, unless it's a raw egg dish.

    I'm not seeing your point at all.


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    #288
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,114 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    duploelabs wrote: »
    There's no way one can make parallels between Irish and Spanish cuisines.
    Why not? Serious question.

    Maybe coddle is a better analogue than stew.
    duploelabs wrote: »
    But as I said earlier, just because carbonara shouldn't have cream in it doesn't stop people adding it (or peas, or mushroom, or onion) however to ensure the authenticity of the dish then it shouldn't be added

    I'd see carbonara as a specific dish. Much like coq au vin, or stroganoff. Variation is possible, but the core is a main idea.

    Paella I'd see as a type of dish, like risotto.
    Traditional Valencian paella has chicken, paella mixta has whatever mixed meats are to hand - I don't understand why "prawn and chorizo paella" is not acceptable but "prawn and chicken paella" is.


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    #289
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,114 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    My da used to shake the bejasus out of cheap red wine, then decant it from a height into a jug. Saw a winemaker in Portugal doing the same! It oxidises the wine quickly and makes it tastier.
    Same principle as letting it breath, oxidation.
    I've a small aerator than you pour red wine through into the glass. It's great with certain wines.
    When I kept hens, that test worked. Wouldn't do it, though - washing the shells allows bacteria through. I break each egg into a cup as I go, then dump it into the dish being cooked or baked.
    Removing the protective layer hardly makes a difference when your about to use the egg.
    Breaking the shell will let a lot more bacteria through


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    #290
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Mellor wrote: »
    Removing the protective layer hardly makes a difference when your about to use the egg.

    Ah no, of course! I was talking about (as I understood it) people testing the eggs in water and then putting some aside.

    It's so unusual to get a rotten egg now, though… or a really fresh one, for that matter.

    In my henny days I used to write the date in pencil on the shells, especially when letting hens go broody on a setting of eggs.


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    #291
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,114 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    It's so unusual to get a rotten egg now, though… or a really fresh one, for that matter.

    lol true.
    I'd love to know how long ago the eggs I eat were laid.


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    #292
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Mellor wrote: »
    lol true.
    I'd love to know how long ago the eggs I eat were laid.

    I'd love to see some local henners selling fresh-laid eggs in the farmers' markets!


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    #293
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    I'd love to see some local henners selling fresh-laid eggs in the farmers' markets!

    We gets eggs from my parents hens. They're so much nicer.


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    #294
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    I asked the farmers. Answers may shock:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057495533


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    #295
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,436 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    I've never water-tested or pre-cracked an egg in my life. Nor have I ever, even once in my life, come across a rotten egg. And I eat a lot of them. So, I dunno, testing every egg you ever use before you use it seems like a bit of a wasted effort for what appears to be a less-than-negligible risk.

    Wait'll you see, I'll get a rake of bad eggs now...


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    #296
    StonyIron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭StonyIron


    That's because eggs are all generally very tightly managed.

    European vs American ideas on egg washing are very different.

    American eggs are white because they wash off the egg with disinfecting solutions ASAP. This removes the cuticle which gives the egg its colour. It also opens up the pores and allows bacteria in.
    It's required by law there though.

    Meanwhile in the EU it's the opposite. They prefer the eggs left unwashed as it seals out bacteria with a bio active, live cuticle. Bear in mind eggs can survive this way in a nest...

    The EU has significantly less food poisoning per capita due to eggs.

    Not food safety advice, just an observation of a "cultural" difference.


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    #297
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    rubadub wrote: »
    I thought it was a great comparison, as would the shepherds's pie lamb/beef issue.



    Shepard's pie doesn't have a lamb/beef issue.

    Shepard's Pie is made with minced or shredded Lamb or mutton.

    Cottage Pie is made with beef.


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    #298
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    Shepard's pie doesn't have a lamb/beef issue.

    Shepard's Pie is made with minced or shredded Lamb or mutton.

    Cottage Pie is made with beef.

    Absolutely. How can people still make this mistake? It's literally in the name..


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    #299
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Whispered wrote: »
    We gets eggs from my parents hens. They're so much nicer.

    I'd love to try a freshly-laid egg. I don't think I've ever had one.

    Actually, at the wedding venue I stayed in for my sister's wedding, they had their own hens, so I likely had freshly-laid or at least quite fresh eggs for my brekkie the next morning. Problem was, I was horrifically hungover/still slightly drunk and don't really remember them. :-/


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    #300
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    I've never water-tested or pre-cracked an egg in my life. Nor have I ever, even once in my life, come across a rotten egg. And I eat a lot of them. So, I dunno, testing every egg you ever use before you use it seems like a bit of a wasted effort for what appears to be a less-than-negligible risk.

    It takes, like, 10 seconds to do per egg. And I only test ones that have gone past the use-by date, not ones within the date. (which yes, I know, might be rotten for whatever reason, but it's highly unlikely) So very few eggs get tested really, as they usually get gobbled up well before the use-by date in my house. It's no effort at all to do the little test and, as said before, the science behind it is solid.


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    #301
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,114 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    So, I dunno, testing every egg you ever use before you use it seems like a bit of a wasted effort for what appears to be a less-than-negligible risk.
    I barely ever test them, I'll usually go through a dozen a week, they're never around long.
    But on the rare occasions I've left a couple sitting there for a while, or if eggs from a few boxes are mixed up. I might test them if I'm unsure how long they are sitting.
    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    Shepard's pie doesn't have a lamb/beef issue.

    Shepard's Pie is made with minced or shredded Lamb or mutton.

    Cottage Pie is made with beef.
    That's absolutely correct. But I'd hazard a guess that a lot of the time when people (in ireland) say they are making sheppards pie for dinner, they use beef mince. In that they are making cottage pie but calling if Shepards pie.


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