Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

atlantic mist · 11-09-2015 06:07PM

whats the issue wit the drier, is it serious? gettin fed lies bout the dog food!

id much prefer to be kept in the loop instead of hearing third party info on our investment, poor supplier communication, good thing for boards, def need a suppliers group to keep everyone informed

there was plenty of people who spoke spoke about milk price and volitility at meetings i attended, brief one liner answers were prepared and rolled out they make decent politicians some day, so i think its a bit unfair to say nobody said anything

well pay a leading milk price : now that im thinking this just means they announce the milk price first:(

Milked out · 11-09-2015 07:15PM

whelan2 wrote: »

what was it last month?

27, their Aug price is still .75 ahead of our July price. Hoping DG hold as Aug last of high volume months for me. Oct is generally my lowest supply month as all aut calvers dry and only starting calvingin oct, this year sep might be as I'll have more calving in oct this year but as they come in to tank solids will drop and price will getting worse. This will be a bad year for winter milkers if price unlikely to rise for next 5 or 6 months. Will have 20 to 25 % of next year's milk supplied by end of march here anyway all likely to be close to base price with solids at that time of year

freedominacup · 12-09-2015 09:14AM

atlantic mist wrote: »

def need a suppliers group to keep everyone informed

(

We need another layer of bs artists like a hole in the head. You already have advisory committees, that godforsaken council and board members on glanbia co-op board, the board of GII and the board of glanbia plc. How many more jobsworths do you want whose only qualifications are that they're their father's sons or are popular in an area for some vague reason which has nothing to do with their ability to make any meaningful input into the running of businesses like these?

Milked out · 12-09-2015 09:34AM

freedominacup wrote: »

We need another layer of bs artists like a hole in the head. You already have advisory committees, that godforsaken council and board members on glanbia co-op board, the board of GII and the board of glanbia plc. How many more jobsworths do you want whose only qualifications are that they're their father's sons or are popular in an area for some vague reason which has nothing to do with their ability to make any meaningful input into the running of businesses like these?

Do macra do some course or courses based on skills needed for board participation and the like? If having something like that was made a requirement it may help. Of course having a course done could still mean the person that did it is still not up to the job and there prob are excelent lads out there who would still be good at the job due to life/ work experience and not do a course but twud be a start. But popular vote would still be hard get it right all the time

freedominacup · 12-09-2015 11:23AM

Milked out wrote: »

But popular vote would still be hard get it right all the time

At least 95% of shareholders shouldn't be even eligible to stand. Only producers with physical and financial performance figures in the top five percent should be considered eligible to stand for advisory committees and top one percent for the board. That would take a lot of the margin for error out of popular vote.

Glanbia finance dept state in all recruitment ads that they only want applications from accountants who pass all exams first time with high marks and from big four firms. We the shareholders on the other hand will allow any knucklehead with a few shares stand.

kowtow · 12-09-2015 11:37AM

freedominacup wrote:

At least 95% of shareholders shouldn't be even eligible to stand. Only producers with physical and financial performance figures in the top five percent should be considered eligible to stand for advisory committees and top one percent for the board. That would take a lot of the margin for error out of popular vote.

As far as the plc board is concerned their hands are bound. I can't see how they can legally influence the conduct of the plc for the benefit of farmer suppliers no matter who elects them and no matter how many seats they occupy.

Does it matter how the board of GIIL acts?

freedominacup · 12-09-2015 11:49AM

kowtow wrote: »

As far as the plc board is concerned their hands are bound. I can't see how they can legally influence the conduct of the plc for the benefit of farmer suppliers no matter who elects them and no matter how many seats they occupy.

Does it matter how the board of GIIL acts?

I wouldn't dispute what you're saying kowtow but there have been more than enough instances over the years where poor management were able to get boards stacked with unqualified farmers to approve accquisitions and investments that were in no shareholders interest.

Currently we need a board on the plc that is driving the best possible return from that business and with enough understanding of the operation to ensure that the maximum possible dividend is extracted without compromising the development of the business. That's the only mechanism we have to underpin milk price.

atlantic mist · 12-09-2015 12:09PM

The plc is out of farmers hands dropped below 50% controlling interest, its not even a conversation how farmers can influence plc, that day is gone they could have many institutional investor influence boards all over the world, board members reducing here year on year.
Gii is my focus not coop and not plc
we should have employed people wit international experience to act as our agent not voting in the top % farmers (cant see how that would ever work) as each area of expertise is different

frazzledhome · 12-09-2015 12:21PM

freedominacup wrote: »

At least 95% of shareholders shouldn't be even eligible to stand. Only producers with physical and financial performance figures in the top five percent should be considered eligible to stand for advisory committees and top one percent for the board. That would take a lot of the margin for error out of popular vote.

Glanbia finance dept state in all recruitment ads that they only want applications from accountants who pass all exams first time with high marks and from big four firms. We the shareholders on the other hand will allow any knucklehead with a few shares stand.

Listen to this man, correct in every word

WheatenBriar · 12-09-2015 12:54PM

Personally since the day the plc was born I viewed it as an arm to fund co op members

As we are now in a situation where the well managed plc is growing and we've already started down a path of spinning out that growth monetarily to members via plc shares and reducing the co-ops percentage of the plc, a few things should happen

The co-op should set a target value monetarily(actual value and dividend) for its shareholding in the plc below which it is not allowed to go (bar exceptional circumstances like a stock market crash etc)
They should spin out shares above that target level to members as frequently as necessary
The dividends paid to the co-op should be paid into a milk support price after reasonable admin costs

I think its a disgrace that GII has not paid the leading milk price it's founders promised it would but that's explainable unfortunately by the crazy situation of the co-op board being the same as the plc board,the tail wagging the dog so to speak, that has to stop

Lastly, I think,GII should aim to be 100% farmer owned through the Co-op,but thats more of a medium term objective,we'd want all the above structures in place first supporting those of us in an industry doomed to be disrespected for all our hard work by the guise of volatility

Those aims would have glanbia Co-op behaving once again like a true co-op for members
Co-op is short hand for cooperative which means everybody cooperating together

kowtow · 12-09-2015 02:00PM

freedominacup wrote:

Currently we need a board on the plc that is driving the best possible return from that business and with enough understanding of the operation to ensure that the maximum possible dividend is extracted without compromising the development of the business. That's the only mechanism we have to underpin milk price.

Surely shareholder returns are maximised by ensuring that the milk price is as low as possible, provided that supply is not jeopardised?

Notwithstanding that agree absolutely that farmers on the board must be forthright and skilled. It's a tight spot in which to maneuver.

kowtow · 12-09-2015 02:06PM

Should the co-op not consider selling its plc holding in order to fund alternative processing arrangements for members milk? It may not be in members interests to have all their eggs in a basket of the plc's making.

I'm not suggesting that it should, but that is the kind of question which farmer directors need to understand intimately if they are to master their responsibilities.

Institutional investors in the plc will take no prisoners... nor should farmer investors.

kowtow · 12-09-2015 02:09PM

WheatenBriar wrote:

I think its a disgrace that GII has not paid the leading milk price it's founders promised it would but that's explainable unfortunately by the crazy situation of the co-op board being the same as the plc board,the tail wagging the dog so to speak, that has to stop

I'd love to check the conflict declarations at the beginning of all those board minutes.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 12-09-2015 02:23PM

kowtow wrote: »

Surely shareholder returns are maximised by ensuring that the milk price is as low as possible, provided that supply is not jeopardised?

Notwithstanding that agree absolutely that farmers on the board must be forthright and skilled. It's a tight spot in which to maneuver.

I think a lot of farmers are getting mixed up between the objectives of a Co-op and a PLC.

kowtow · 12-09-2015 03:20PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I think a lot of farmers are getting mixed up between the objectives of a Co-op and a PLC.

I know very little about the evolution of the deal; keep meaning to read the papers on it and the articles of the two companies so if I'm missing something obvious forgive me.

Edit: I've now had a chance to read the various RNS's and the circulars and I see better what the construction is.

The following things strike me on a brief reading.

1. As far as the original PLC deal / demerger is concerned what is done is done. The public rationale made sense (it would) and I'm perfectly sure that the PLC investors got the very best deal possible and that the farmers swallowed it hook line and sinker for the same reason that I will never be able to put a cluster on a cow as fast as you lot can. In other jurisdictions people like me would have a field day pulling that all apart after the event, but not here and not now - the PLC shares are important only in so far as their value is concerned. Put crudely, and leaving aside any ongoing management issues over the joint venture - on which they would probably be conflicted anyway - the farmers on the plc board are mainly there to enjoy the coffee and biscuits. We must all wish the PLC well because we want the shares to go up. Also, if we need to sue them at a later date we'll want them to have lots of spare cash.

2. The management of the joint venture is the key issue for the future. There is an interesting problem here in that the co-op must be careful not to abuse it's minority shareholders (the PLC) and in this respect they have a double whammy at the PLC's expense. If they pay up for milk now, they reduce EBITDA & therefore decrease the price of the call option in respect of the remaining 40% of the business. If I was sitting at GIIL on behalf of the PLC I'd be terrorising the co-op side of the board with this at every opportunity. The PLC have - cleverly in my opinion - turned the corporate governance tables on the co-op in this respect. I bet nobody from the co-op side ever said "great, but actually we only want 40%" when the joint venture was proposed.

3. I know nothing of the specifics of Belview, and I don't know any of the individuals - but I don't envy them - as Buford says above there is a lot of confusion over the various roles, but GIIL needs as strong and farmer focussed a board as possible regardless of the PLC. Whether Glanbia is a success for Irish farmers will depend on how well they reinvent the co-operative that they once had. The remaining shareholding and the funds which might result from it will be a key point of leverage in this.

In the meantime I wonder how people feel at the moment about the call option (assuming it was part of the final deal) and I wonder whether people would be less confused if GIIL changed it's name?

atlantic mist · 13-09-2015 12:09PM

Name change wouldnt need to occur unless call option exercised, name came from primary school competition. it was suggested the plc change its name (thou it was funny at the time, they suggested we change ours) ppl have a connection to name

They have 2 ways of valuing call option one based on the ebita id need to find it to tell u the exact detail but other is based on valuation of company on a certain date (they discounted assets/transferred as we took on pension liability, not sure when that will wash i was guessing at the time before valuation date). At the time of first spin out no plan was outlined (from coop side anyway)to exercise option, i dont know if anything has changed

it is a possibility they could sell out after the supply agreement finishes between gii and plc depends on global milk price, if its cheaper else where and a commercial decision is made thats a reality, (we are only balance sheet item now and not included in group profit and loss which helps) as the plc ceo said they are open to acquisitions but they can be taken over also mainly based in us now we might end up negotiating with someone else, the relationship will play a big part as currently the situation but we need to be realistic too, guaranteed quality ingredients is our key card. cant have it that to make business meet ebitia it has to pay lowest milk price if i took that line with any one who supplies me i dont think many would be still supplying me must throw out the ebita one some day c how it goes down, suppliers will b always here for gii will plc, thats what id be saying to governance throw backs
our ceo has a toughest job of all inbetween coop, plc and supplier demands at board meetings, higher milk price:higher profit lower that milk price:)

the institutional investors who are currently upping their stake in plc will want rid of low margin business in a few years look how quick the Nigeria operation went

on abusing minority shareholders(dont think it will happen both parties bring different things to the table, abusing suppliers can also occur as easiest route to achieve ebita drop price, if you have a lot of shares it prob evens out i dont know, i do feel for the lads on the plc board over the years only hearing about milk and grain price and thus y reduce them to the minority, the people who sat on those boards failed to comprehend the reason for forming the plc was to ensure in volatile years we had other business built up in other areas to draw from) i think they have covered this by voting rights on the board while 60:40 split on ownership it isnt that in voting rights think its 50:50 with ceo having deciding vote

is our gii finance team the same as plc? we share services so this is possible, attracting and retaining the best is what we want, i think they also mention experience in there recruitment adds which beats the socks off any college grade, big difference from getting a 1.1 in college and having commercial awareness and many of those dont and the big4 reputation is in shreds after last banking scandal. So to pick the top% of farmers doesnt sound sensible to me where is there experience in selling premium product to international markets

WheatenBriar · 14-09-2015 09:33AM

Steering away from the above debate
It would be nice if we could have our milk statements emailed to us
Lately with glanbia, you are paid before knowing what for?
The new online statements have invariably been late

whelan2 · 14-09-2015 09:38AM

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Steering away from the above debate
It would be nice if we could have our milk statements emailed to us
Lately with glanbia, you are paid before knowing what for?
The new online statements have invariably been late

Statements normally online on 16th , this has been late for the last few months, wonder is it anything to do with the new glanbia connect site?

WheatenBriar · 14-09-2015 09:43AM

whelan2 wrote: »

Statements normally online on 16th , this has been late for the last few months, wonder is it anything to do with the new glanbia connect site?

Probably, Yeah agrilink was always on time,but they only shut that down on August 1st so hopefully it was the migration of data that's delaying things
Still by email would be handy

whelan2 · 14-09-2015 09:44AM

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Probably, Yeah agrilink was always on time,but they only shut that down on August 1st so hopefully it was the migration of data that's delaying things

still amazed at the amount of people who dont use it

Greengrass1 · 14-09-2015 10:21AM

whelan2 wrote: »

still amazed at the amount of people who dont use it

Only started using it ourselves this yr. V handy. I'll have to get dad computer literate. Fed up being played to print off reports from icbf etc

Greengrass1 · 14-09-2015 10:35AM

Parents cleaning out filing cabinets here
Milk price in Aug 2003 was 26 cpl.
We got 30c
Pr 3.78 and 4.01.
Parents reckon they had a lot more money back then and we were kids and still went ahead and bought a farm.
We owed very little then I suppose.
How many would go do something like that at the minute?

cute geoge · 14-09-2015 10:54AM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Parents cleaning out filing cabinets here
Milk price in Aug 2003 was 26 cpl.
We got 30c
Pr 3.78 and 4.01.
Parents reckon they had a lot more money back then and we were kids and still went ahead and bought a farm.
We owed very little then I suppose.
How many would go do something like that at the minute?

I would love to look back at the average price that was paid for milk in the last 30 years . I am very dispondant for the future of dairy farming as it looks like a race to the bottom by our milk buyers.
There was a great chance to pay off for farm land from dairying if things went according to plan in the past ,but i think if you took out big loans on the back of dairy farming nowadays you would need your head examined

Milked out · 14-09-2015 11:02AM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Parents cleaning out filing cabinets here
Milk price in Aug 2003 was 26 cpl.
We got 30c
Pr 3.78 and 4.01.
Parents reckon they had a lot more money back then and we were kids and still went ahead and bought a farm.
We owed very little then I suppose.
How many would go do something like that at the minute?

Nobody I assume does that looking at one year gg, same as u doing your 5 yr plan at 29 cent most would be taking an average over a no of years. 09' the price was 21 cent start of last year was 39. Obviously the changes with quota, US energy supply China domestic growth and south American expansion are all bigger influences now but we can't control them and personally wouldn't have a clue with regard predicting what will happen so it's a case of do best we can with our own plans. Biggest issue with a low milk price and plans to buy land or whatever would be having the cash around to pay for costs associated with the purchase really and possibly the odd banker getting nervous

Buford T. Justice XIX · 14-09-2015 11:15AM

Milked out wrote: »

Nobody I assume does that looking at one year gg, same as u doing your 5 yr plan at 29 cent most would be taking an average over a no of years. 09' the price was 21 cent start of last year was 39. Obviously the changes with quota, US energy supply China domestic growth and south American expansion are all bigger influences now but we can't control them and personally wouldn't have a clue with regard predicting what will happen so it's a case of do best we can with our own plans. Biggest issue with a low milk price and plans to buy land or whatever would be having the cash around to pay for costs associated with the purchase really and possibly the odd banker getting nervous

If you owe the bank 2 million, you get nervous.

If you owe the bank 200million, the bank gets nervous.

Banks are extremely well covered for farmers being unable to pay off loans.

The sale of the land and the possibility of sale of a section of the home farm leave them in a hugely favourable position, bunch of bankers!

kowtow · 14-09-2015 12:22PM

The size of the average dairy herd in Ireland is too small, according to Joe Gill, Director of Corporate Broking with Goodbody Stockbrokers.

“Given the challenges that are coming down the track, the figure should be in the region of 100 cows,” he said.

“At this level of scale, milk producers will be better placed to reduce costs and improve efficiency levels.

“Rationalisation at farm level can take place in a voluntary manner or it can be effected on a more compulsory basis. Obviously, the former option is the one that will cause the least amount of stress at farm level.”

If these people didn't have such a fantastic track record in the markets I'd suggest that his tone sounded a little thick and sinister.

kowtow · 14-09-2015 12:40PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Parents cleaning out filing cabinets here
Milk price in Aug 2003 was 26 cpl.
We got 30c
Pr 3.78 and 4.01.

Interesting to reflect that both the EUR / $ rate and the GDT index were at approximately similar levels in August 2003 to August 2015.

Oil was, from memory, under $40 a barrel but not a million miles from where it is today either.

WheatenBriar · 14-09-2015 02:15PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Parents cleaning out filing cabinets here
Milk price in Aug 2003 was 26 cpl.
We got 30c
Pr 3.78 and 4.01.
Parents reckon they had a lot more money back then and we were kids and still went ahead and bought a farm.
We owed very little then I suppose.
How many would go do something like that at the minute?

The website goes back to 1999 on statements
Your parents were being paid a pound a gallon then at times too
Milk buyers power(including those that collect and process it from us) has grown exponentially under our poor watch since

No need to tell you where our pay and the rest of the economies pay has gone since then...
Just think of opposite ends of the grand canyon

RightTurnClyde · 15-09-2015 11:51AM

€420 million agreed in direct aid to dairy farmers today in Brussels
Ireland to get €13.7 million of this.

kevthegaff · 15-09-2015 12:03PM

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

€420 million agreed in direct aid to dairy farmers today in Brussels
Ireland to get €13.7 million of this.

We paid short of 10% of superlevy in europe, yet we get 3% of direct aid. Sounds fair

Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

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