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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
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H'Okay! Seeing as this week is nearly done, I need some more pacing advice.
Next week is my first HM. I have no idea which pacers to go with. What are the other 4:30 hopers going for?
I did the 10 mile in 1:33, probably could have been slightly better if not for congestion, etc.
Am I being ridiculous in thinking that I could do a 2 hr HM?
You're in a similar boat to me. I'm going to go for the 2. If you want company, you're welcome to come with me for the chats or what not! If you're dragging me back, I'll drop you so don't worry.
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Hi Toulouse - and others wondering what range to pick for the Hm next week:
I got a good overview from my coach last week re pace approach in racing
- for 10k, you should still have a bit in the tank at 5k
- for 10 miles....hmm can't remember, sorry
- for HM, you should pick a pace that will be comfortably hard for 9 miles. If you get to 9 miles, you'll finish it
- for the marathon, it's the same as the HM but the comfortable bit is 20 miles ("the marathon: a 20 mile warm up for a 6 mile race"
- old saying )
So it's up to you what you want from this one. Myself and the team think you should definitely race this one (all boxes ticked, health, sleep, niggles ok etc). The outcome is definitely not an absolute indicator of how you will perform in the marathon, however it will be a very good indicator of how your training has gone.
It will also give you a reasonable insight into certain aspects of marathon day (fuelling, pacing, bonking, hydating, blisters, cramping, TRIM YOUR TOENAILS THIS WEEKEND).
As BeepBeep recommends, you can apply maths to your most recent long race and work out an equivalent pace for the half. Tweak it up or down according to how you feel training has gone in the last few weeks.
- are you experiencing sporadic fatigue?
- are you experiencing accumulated fatigue? Will a taper help this?
- have you noticed runs at your usual pace are harder or easier?
- if you have done a PMP race recently, how did that go?
- how has sleep been lately?
- life stress?
- nutrition?
- have you been on top of your core, mobility and general strengthening routine?
- what is the weather going to be like on the day? Have you thought about how you perform in the predicted conditions (hot, humid, windy, windy and sunny, rain, rain and wind etc.... :eek: )
- how are you on hills? There's a severe enough drag (same as FD) at the end...
These are just a few of the factors which will affect your performance on race day so something to keep in mind when you plan your pacing strategy. I did up three pace bands for the half last year (colour coded :cool: ). On the other hand, maybe no need to over think it. If you go out too hard...what's the worst that can happen? You jog in. This is only another piece in the jigsaw that is the marathon......
And don't forget, there will be experienced and happy pacers there on the day too. They even do piggy backs :pac: 0 -
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No expert but u would have nearly extra half hour to cover
Just over 3 miles, depending on how hard u found 10 miles
Seems doable. Also extra month training under your belt and
all seems to be going well, I'd go for it on day and see how
Comfortable feels, if not going well just slow down.
I think u will be well able, but suppose u are only one who
Knows how your training going. Best of luck with what ever
You decide.
Thanks G. I think the training has been going great. I can do what is required and I'm feeling really positive about it.I did the 10 in 1:32. I'm going to go with the 2 hour Pacers and hope for the best! Will be going with the 4:30 for the marathon. I did the R'n'R half in 2:12 but didn't push myself for that so want to beat that anyways!
Glad I'm not the only one! I think I probably will go out with the 2hr pacers. I'm still trying to figure out which approach will have a bigger effect on me mentally. So if I go out with the 2hr pacers but then can't hack it and drop back will that have a really negative effect on me or of I go out with the 2:10's and then increase the pace if I'm able and get to the finish line wondering 'what if'.BeepBeep67 wrote: »If you apply simple maths, 1:33 for 10m = 9:18 min/mile, 1:59:59 for the HM = 9:10 min/mile, so faster for longer!
So it really depends on if you are on an upward curve and feel confident in achieving that or start a bit slower and push on from halfway.
Thanks, I had done the maths but I'm always the last person to have confidence in myself so that's why I'm at a bit of a loss.I did my first ever 10m run last year in last year's Frank Duffy in 1:30:xx and did the HM in 1:59:xx. I wasn't running anywhere near the amounts you've been running, you've definitely got a lot more miles in and endurance built up compared to me last year. I'd say go roughly with the 2:00 pacers and kick some ass
Yeah but you're a legend B! Yeah, I think that's what I'm going to attempt to do!I'm going with the 2 hour pacers in the HM and am hoping for a 4:30 on the big day.
Sweet, I shall see you there!You're in a similar boat to me. I'm going to go for the 2. If you want copy, you're welcome to come with me for the chats or what not! If you're dragging me back, I'll drop you so don't worry.
Haha, oh, it's on!!If you go out too hard...what's the worst that can happen? You jog in. This is only another piece in the jigsaw that is the marathon......
That's it really isn't it. I think I have to give it a go!Pb for half is 2.10 so I'll be going for 2.08.
You'll smash it A. I hope I get to run some of it with you!I'm hoping to go with the 2hr pacers and give it my best.
That's all any of us can do
Thanks everyone, feeling more settled now that I have a plan!0 -
Well 18 miles LSR done and dusted. Have to say it was the hardest run I have done on the training schedule to date. The plan was to do 10 miles at MP which for me is 10.18 a mile. Took the day off work to do it, due to a hen on Saturday night. Up early for the usual routine now of porridge, berroca boost, tea and xpose. Did my stretching and foam rolling. Didn't sleep great last night and was really anxious about this one as I knew I would have no company for the MP miles and I have gotten used to the company of the running buddies recently. I had company for the first 6 miles (thanks Mrs KennyG) which we did around the perimeter of St Annes Park. I set off then to complete by 12 miles by myself. First few miles went fine, it was a deceivingly hot today (drank a lot) and when I turned onto Clontarf Road the breeze was really strong. I realise that this can happen on marathon day too but after a few miles into the wind I decided that mentally I needed to do a good run today after my disaster on Wednesday so running to Sutton Cross into the wind was now not an option. Decided to change my route and headed for town over by the 3 arena and down by the Liffey. Nice change of scenery as I had never run this route before. I ran from town out home but getting into my usual stomping ground in Clontarf I knew that I was going to be a bit short on distance, so needed to add another loop on. Had to stop for more water at 16.5 miles as I had drunk the two bottles on my belt. I had to pass by my road to take in the extra miles (mentally very hard) and when I eventually got to the top of my road knew I was going to come a bit short of 18 so had to pass my road again (even harder !) ! Eventually got to my gate and saw 17.93 on the watch, no way was this happening, so down to the end of the road and back. Felt I would never get home at this stage. The last two miles were really tough legs felt like blocks. Now I hold my hand up and say that I am a drama queen but I am finding this journey an emotional roller coaster I actually came in the door after the 18 miles and burst out crying. I have no idea why thankfully the hubby was not here (can see him rolling the eyes to heaven reading this ..... women !) my daughter managed to talk some sense into me and calm me down. Felt completely stupid I have to say. MP miles were tough, run was tough but the positive is that I did it. Splits were :
Mile 1 11.47
Mile 2 11.00
Mile 3 11.22
Mile 4 11.05
Mile 5 11.49
Mile 6 11.45
Mile 7 MP 11.00 (not great)
Mile 8 MP 10.18
Mile 9 MP 10.34
Mile 10 MP 10.20
Mile 11 MP 10.19
Mile 12 MP 10.38 (into wind)
Mile 13 MP 10.29
Mile 14 MP 10.35
Mile 15 MP 10.32
Mile 16 MP 10.51 (into wind)
Mile 17 12.58 (stopped for more water)
Mile 18 12.02 Home at last
All stretched, foam rolled, fed and iced. Note to self...Need to start putting glide on my back under my bra strap.... ouch when I got in the shower.
Feeling and lot better now and totally stupid for bursting into tears. But job done, I am not on as much of a high as last week, but happy its another milestone done. Good luck everyone else doing LSRs this weekend.
Nice run Mrs. You can really enjoy weekend now I hope. Having bad week here so so exhausted this week too not feeling the running love at all not sure if down to training or just getting back to school / work routine. Missed my 8 mile run cos wrecked but glad now cos feel lsr run might be ok. Have not managed to do any mp miles yet during lsr but will try this weekend. Hope you having nice well deserved sip of vino this evening. Best of luck everyone on lsr this weekend.0 -
Hi again BK, well done on your running so far! As you've not long started running, it's inevitable that you will find yourself running faster on certain training runs but please please please don't intentionally set out to race each training run :eek:
Keep training runs for, well, training your body how to run and races....for racing Parkruns are a perfect idea for race practice in the meantime.
Your HM is aim is ambitious but without knowing more about your background I couldn't say how possible it is. You'll be best served by following a tried and tested HM-specific plan. Have a look around at a few HM plans and see which one will accommodate your lifestyle, ability to get out running (amount of days) etc. If you want to know more, stick a query up on the Random Running Questions thread, there will be no shortage of advice and experience re HM plans there
Will do, thanks!
Yeah, I think I do my training runs too fast. I kept telling myself to slow down on my 16k the other day, but looking at the splits after shows that I kept a consistent pace the whole way.
I think I may reign in the expectations for the moment; aim for sub 2 hours (which I should be able for unless something bad happens in the mean time - touch wood!) and then if I get sub 1:50 I'll be happy considering it'll only be 7 months after my first proper run, and 4 months after I started to take it more serious.
Now to just go do it! Cheers 0 -
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16 mile LSR done and dusted. Steady as a rock!
1 11:40 /mi
2 11:15 /mi
3 11:23 /mi
4 11:24 /mi
5 11:20 /mi
6 11:24 /mi
7 11:22 /mi
8 11:30 /mi
9 11:30 /mi
10 11:14 /mi
11 11:05 /mi
12 11:20 /mi
13 10:58 /mi
14 11:21 /mi
15 11:16 /mi
16 10:43 /mi
Apart from the last mile where I had to up the pace a bit to beat the rain home! Felt fairly comfortable, though I'm still feeling the bit of fatigue from the midweek pace run. Weather was lovely. Mr. Sun pissed off for the morning. Lovely and overcast with only one brief (torrential) shower around mile 10 or so for about half a mile.
Now my favourite word in the English language. TAPER! 0 -
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Its amazing how quickly the legs heal, would normally rest up after LSR but as I did it yesterday still had 5 miles easy to do today. Could not believe no niggles when I started out. Did 2 miles easy and then did St Annes Park run legs were a bit heavy but other than that all good, no niggles. Kept it steady didn't get caught up in trying to go too fast. Lovely morning in St Anne's, nice post race coffee's and catch up with the some of the St Annes crew. Off to the sister in law's hen night now, just hope I can last the pace on that !! Good luck with LSR's everyone. 0
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Great to hear neil. Keep it easy until you are absolutely in the clear. And yup, as Clearlier says, the time to throw in the towel is when you're not going to be happy with your result. If a comfortable finish is the aim, and you think you will have the fitness to support that, go for itneilthefunkeone wrote: »So my little whinge the other day may have been a little too early.. last 2 nights running and feeling good. Nothing over 4 miles yet but might give it a little push over the weekend to 5-6 miles.
Will still probably miss half marathon.. Just to check with Physio and maybe run it as a LSR.(hardest thing to do id say)
Marathon.. who knows? 4 hour is maybe gone though but a comfortable finish may still be on the cards!!
G'wan the runnning!!!Throwing in a non weight loss question here...
ok so next week will be handy enough before the HM
Maybe something like
5, 4, 5 taking Thurs & Fri off before the HM
The week after I'm travelling with work Tues-Thurs with no chance of running
Going to get 5 in on Monday & hopefully 4 in on Tuesday before leaving and then 5 again on Friday before the LSR on Saturday
LSR that week might be 16 rather than the 14 in the plan (I know it's over the 50% rule but can't help it this week)
The next week the HH1 plan has a 20 miler on the Saturday but I'm flying out to a wedding on the Thurs so thinking
Mon 5, Tues 10, Wed 5 & then 20 before the flight on the Thurs
Is that too rushed that last week before taper? Think I should be ok if I do them all at an easy pace.
Vague post I know it's just well ya know.....doubts!
H frash, sorry if this has been answered, haven't had a chance to look throught the last two pages yet.
I've put my suggestions in bold, hope you find it helpful.
M|T|W|Th|F|S|Sun
5||4|5|x|x|HM|x
5|4 6-8|x|x|5|16|x
5|10 8|5|20|x|x|20*
*or even on the Monday, is that a possibility? Actually, let me know when you get back from the wedding, that could open up a few possibilities 0 -
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Nop, not strictly a lsr feedback but have been meaning to say - sorry for the delay - it sounds like your PMP run was done in unusual heat so it was going to feel much harder. I'm not too worried about the lack of warm up in this heat, but a little longer warm up and at a slightly slower pace would have helped you ease into it more gradually.
There is sometimes a price to pay when running with someone else, but usually the pros outweigh the cons. Don't let this knock you too much.
Welcome home and how is the ankle now?
Mrs Mc, well done - I nearly felt like standing up, clapping and crying myself reading that!
The fact that you did this solo will be of considerable benefit to you. The ideal state of distance running is to be able to perform consistently without unnecessary 'props', and this includes company On the day, it is just you, the road...and occasionally, your marathon demons :eek: Running on your own like this helps you to manage your demons if and when they appear on the day.
I know what you're saying about 'never-ending', I had my own experience of this recently. I'm reading Dean Karnazes' (the ultra runner) 50 marathons in 50 days and he overcame this 168 miles into a 200 mile race by using the 'baby steps' method. He was done for, sat down on the side of the road at this point, convinced that was the end of the road for him. He picked himself up, focused on a bush a little way along, and using baby steps, reached it. Next, he focused on a telegraph pole...and so on....
This could be a really useful strategy on the day. If any of you bonk at 18, 20, 22 miles, whatever distance is left will feel like forever. Don't focus on this, focus on the next turn, the next pole, the next crowd...until you're over that particular dip, or better still, you see that finish line
Enjoy that hen tonight!
chrislad, "steady as a rock" you sure are and yup, residual fatigue is normal. So make sure you get enough sleep (I'm going to bore ye to sleep repeating this No good waiting till week T-1 to bank sleep, it has to be done now to help your body adapt and recover.)
Well done frash on the 13.1 Any more details please? Any berries picked today?! You're on a stag tonight aren't you? Enjoy!
denis b your Magical Mystery Tour sounds gorgeous. We should have a reunion run post-marathon along the canal....
Well done guys, another piece of the puzzle completed.0 -
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Just back in from my 16m lsr.
Wasn't really feeling the love today. I can't put my finger on anything specific; it all went ok, but I just didn't really want to be out there today. It was a long week, 5 runs and 43½ miles this week; my longest ever, so maybe that explains it **.
I'm sure that the mini taper and the excitement of the race next week have have me back on form.
** The spreadsheet has me just passing 400 miles since the plan started. 0
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