DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

Clearlier

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I did a parkrun this morning, as per my trainer. I don't know if this makes sense to anyone, but in my head it does - it wasn't a race, it was just to see how I was doing on shorter distances.

It went terribly.

Plan was to go easy on first half, then push it for second half.

I went out well in the first km, finished it bang on where I wanted to. 2nd km was six seconds short of where I wanted to be, and this was due to my watch telling me lies but no big deal. 3rd km I felt the start of a stitch, eased back slightly, 8 seconds slower again. 4th km stitch was excruciating pulled it right back but still had to actually stop. Last km finished strong but too much time was lost. Terrible overall time. I won't bother posting it.

I've asked my trainer for some advice on this, but I'll ask here too. I get a stitch every single time I race without fail. I've tried changing things around and I still get it regardless.

This morning went like this:

7:30 - pint of water
8:30 - Tea
8:50 - 200mls water with dioralyte
9:10 - 2km warmup + drills.
9:30 - run

What am I doing so wrong that this keeps happening?

Sorry to hear of your struggles whoopsa.

Something that may be worth trying is belly breathing.
Start off by lying on the ground and relax all of your muscles starting with your big toe and working your way up your body.
Then start taking deeper breaths but like your trying to breathe into the bottom of your back.
As you breathe in you want to see your belly rise rather than your chest.
Alternate breathing in so that your chest rises on one breath and your stomach on the next one so that you understand the difference between them.

When you've mastered belly breathing while lying on your back progress to doing it while standing up, then while walking and finally when running.

Your chances of getting a stitch should be greatly reduced if you breathe like this when running.

BIRDCAGE1

So I completed this weeks LSR a day early as I have a lot on today and tomorrow. Last week I needed to complete between 14/16 miles and managed a respectable 15.41 miles. This week it was a straight 16 mile which I completed a lot more comfortably.

Was up very early on Friday morning (6am), as we have a very eager new Junior Infant in the house that can’t wait to go to School every day. I did my usual morning routine of porridge and banana. After reading about the lock lace option for doing up my runners, I decided to give it a go, I was also wearing compression socks for the first time, and I was out on the road by 8.30am.

I was about 1.30 miles into my run and I knew that I should have had one more visit to the bathroom before leaving, plus I reckon I had over tightened my laces and they were cutting off the blood supply to my legs. So I turned around and headed back home, got the laces and bathroom break sorted and headed out again. I didn’t have a route planned, I figured I would just go where ever the mood took me. I kept my pace very slow and took three gels along the way at 4, 9 and 13 miles. I really enjoyed this run and recovery was a lot better this week compared to last week.

Question: My plan [Irish Runner magazine – Novice plan] doesn’t give me any indication of pace for each run. I was thinking, should I start running parts of my LSRs at PMP pace to get the practice in? or keep doing them all at my slower pace.

LSR Splits...

1 11:27
2 11:16
3 11:13
4 11:28
5 11:22
6 11:16
7 11:07
8 11:02
9 11:11
10 11:18
11 11:06
12 10:59
13 11:00
14 11:22
15 10:28
16 9:57.9

duffer247

Needed a good run today and got one. 15m lsr done this morning and couldn't have gone much better. Felt really good and bar a blip on mile 13 no issues and felt strong. Averaged 10.45 per mile full split and report to come.
Dragged myself into career zoo this afternoon and I was like a zombie walking around!
Well done to all who have done their lsr's

frash

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Well done frash on the 13.1 Any more details please? Any berries picked today?! You're on a stag tonight aren't you? Enjoy!

.

No berries today just a couple of stops at water taps along the route.
On the way into the stag night now.
Too old for this ****!

Had a quick look at that table further up.
HM is a Saturday isn't it? You have it on the Sunday.
Also back from wedding late on the Sunday and between work and the kids Monday is ruled out.
It's gotta be the Thursday before the early evening flight.

diego_b

16m LSR completed this morning and crikey it was tough going. Much more of a slog that the last few long runs have been. I have an idea what the cause was, combination of me not getting my pacing right at all....part of that was down to me just not feeling it today, part of that was possibly the race still in my legs from last weekend and the heavy training week this but another key point was that I made a balls of it with the route I picked to run.
Just a ridiculous amount of hills, for comparison....last week's proper tough half marathon had 459ft of climbing throughout. Today had 541ft with a 476ft descent during the 16miles.
I was grand until during mile 7 when I was starting a good climbing phase that lasted for around 2.5 miles plus I had a headwind and rain to deal with. Starting to feel it then and was at my furthest point away from home so you just keep trucking.
I had fancied a route change and went for something a bit scenic but I was proper fecked by the last few miles of the run. Also it did not help that planned scenic route meant I had to run head on into a local cycling road race for the last 5-6 miles of my run. I switched to the left hand side of the road and was out of the way then. At the very back of the race in a support car was the running coach from my club so it was nice to see a friendly face and give a high 5 too. I still had about 2.5miles to go at that point and was really counting it down. Anyways the positive was that I got it done but I learned a valuable lesson in route planning down here, you run and learn.

Distance 16m
Avg pace 9:56min/mi
Avg heart rate 152bpm

10:05
9:48
9:37
9:57
9:39
9:54
9:48
10:23
10:05
9:49
9:25
9:53
9:51
10:06
10:32
10:09

conor_mc

denis b wrote: »

Sure was!!!!! Did we bump into each other last year on Collins Ave?

We did indeed! Had a hunch it was yourself between the name and you mentioned finishing a run at the Casino recently. Today, I happened to be driving by as you were finishing up, then 20 mins later denis_b posts about his lsr. So I put 2+2 together...!!

Sounds like your training is going well this year, might see you round over the next couple of weeks. You're doing the HM next week?

Neady83

Athlone Flatline Half Marathon LSR type training run
2 miles @ 9:09/mile
13.1 miles @ 8:55/mile

This was supposed to be 1 mile wu/ half marathon at PMP (9:08)/1 mile wd. My training this week was all over the shop, sorry DG. I went completely off plan, I did a rage run of 9 miles on Wed, 9 miles on Thurs and 6 yesterday so the half was done on tired and stiff legs (dang squats with dyna bands). I know this is completely not the way to do things but I was reverting to my adventuring days of training on tired legs.

I started with my 1 mile warm up, taking it nice and handy and figured I'd get my 2 miles done before the race because I knew once I crossed the line, there was no way I'd be cooling down with a run because of the stiffness in my legs. On mile 2 I met the 1:45 pacer and we chatted away - I didn't notice the pace creeping up so there you go, 2 miles warm up @ PMP .

I tucked in behind the 2 hour pacers for the off and stayed with them for 6 miles. There was a girl in the group who had the beep beeps on her watch and it was going off every 7 seconds, beep beep beep beepbeepbeep - the long beep beep sequence, not just a single beep. It was driving me nuts so I pushed on ever so slightly, enough so that I could hear the pacers chatting but not hear her watch.

The pace felt fine and I was glad to be out of the group as I was able to sustain my pace without slowing and edging in and out around people. It was quite warm so I took a bottle of water at each water station and carried it with me until I got to the next station. I met a girl around mile 8 who was cooking in her own skin so I offered her my water and she was really grateful. It was nice to chat to people as we went around the course (a nice flat one).

The last mile felt tough but overall it was a good race and on reflection I'm happy to have 15 miles at PMP under my belt even though this was an absolute shambles of a week training wise and completely not what I should be doing.

Will do better next week, I promise

p.s. The Athlone half is a cracker of a race. I registered way back in March for €20 and for that I got a great long sleeved technical t-shirt that will serve me well for the winter, water bottles along the course, a medal and post race refreshments. Excellently organised and a great atmosphere along the whole course.

nop98

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Nop, not strictly a lsr feedback but have been meaning to say - sorry for the delay - it sounds like your PMP run was done in unusual heat so it was going to feel much harder. I'm not too worried about the lack of warm up in this heat, but a little longer warm up and at a slightly slower pace would have helped you ease into it more gradually.
There is sometimes a price to pay when running with someone else, but usually the pros outweigh the cons. Don't let this knock you too much.
Welcome home and how is the ankle now?

Thanks DG - just home now. No running for the last 48hrs due to work and travel (the rest was needed and the machinery feels OK-ish now). That PMP run knocked the stuffing out of me, probably overdone it with 3 easy runs in the days before, on top of busy days and little sleep, and going a little too fast. I really felt it yesterday.

Not sure if I'll fit in the LSR tomorrow, there's understandably some parenting to catch-up with - and the better half obviously needs some me-time as well (having missed out on her own Thursday evening running club!). At any rate, I have no plans for it yet (time, route) so we'll see how it works out. The thought of missing it freaks me out!!

Next week looks better (despite missing the DCHM as I have an unexpected day off on Friday for a nice LSR :rolleyes:).

chrislad

Ugh, can feel a sore throat and maybe flu coming on. Dosing myself up. Stupid back to school germs.

JMSE

JMSE wrote: »

even found Roebuck Road and did the dreaded 'heartbreak hill' - its the kind of incline that would cause problems BUT its really not long enough to do that so am not gonna worry about that anymore

What a gob****e, that was on mile 7 of a slow 11 miler, i'd like to see how happy I'll be to see it in front of me at mile 22 on marathon day. I say that now having done todays LSR, left the house on an 18 mile plan, but got greedy and started tempting myself to go the extra 2 mile knowing the buzz I'd get from it even if I never ran again.

So off I set without watch or phone, just the tipperary kidz bottle of water and meself. I ran from Dunboyne to Kilcloon to Maynooth, down the canal to Leixlip (paths fairly bad in places) and back to Dunboyne. 2 mile left to go I bit the bullet and swung left for another 4 mile that would bring me to 20. Twas along these stretches and the feet feeling like my runners were full of concrete that I came to the gob****e conclusion outlined above, a hill of any decent incline would have probably pushed me too close the edge and brought things to a stop, and I dont do stops. Anyway I made it to the end, have yet to google map the whole thing to make sure it was 20 but am fairly sure of my figures. 3 hours, dont have splits, I'd say the last 5 miles were fairly well over the 9min miles. Drank the 250ml water thru the run and regretted not bringing a bit more. .In the door to a pint of rock shandy and a banana, heaven, and then the dinner an hour later. Am not into the protein shake thing, tried that a year ago during the c25k and gave the tub away after 2 or 3 shakes.

Anyone else get the 'downhill endorphins'? Generally I dont like big downhill runs coz earlier in the year I gave meself two sore knees for a few months after haring down a 2km hill and now I slow right off in training runs if theres a steep decline. But am not talkin bout the steep ones, you know the sudden feeling that comes on you where you suddenly think 'hey this is goin alright, I'm ok with all this', and then you realise that you're on a slight decline and hence the 'easy feelings'. Those endorphins dont last too long but you earn them so gotta love them.

**edit** google says it was 32km but only 19.9mls, headwrecker

smashiner

I am 'grounded' for the weekend, as my wife and little girl are off in Spain for a girlie long weekend, while I mind our son for a 'lads weekend at home'....pizza and beer all the way:eek:.......kidding I am living on shreddies for breakfast and baked beans for dinner while the young lad has McDonalds (that counts as cooking in my book).......;)

Probably no harm that I am on the bench, as I did a decent run on Wednesday and my ankle is acting up a little (old footie injury).....on a positive note I have planned to take Monday off and post the school run go for a 28K LSR (fingers crossed) at 9:30am.

Got my race number for the DHM on Saturday looking forward to that, best of luck to anyone running races or LSR's this weekend.....I love running in the rain!!

denis b

conor_mc wrote: »

We did indeed! Had a hunch it was yourself between the name and you mentioned finishing a run at the Casino recently. Today, I happened to be driving by as you were finishing up, then 20 mins later denis_b posts about his lsr. So I put 2+2 together...!!

Sounds like your training is going well this year, might see you round over the next couple of weeks. You're doing the HM next week?

Sure am. Think we will be meeting up after the race. Let me know if you are around and best of luck with the preparation.

FBOT01

BIRDCAGE1 wrote: »

.......

Question: My plan [Irish Runner magazine – Novice plan] doesn’t give me any indication of pace for each run. I was thinking, should I start running parts of my LSRs at PMP pace to get the practice in? or keep doing them all at my slower pace.......

The plan you are on does not include MP miles and is designed that way for a reason. All the long runs are "standard" LSRs which is how you have run them to date. As you have probably read on here a few times the general Mantra is along the lines of "trust in the plan and stick to the plan."

There is a temptation when you read what other people are doing to start questioning your plan and look at changing it..........resist

ratracer

chrislad wrote: »

Ugh, can feel a sore throat and maybe flu coming on. Dosing myself up. Stupid back to school germs.

Same here Chrislad, I have no running done since Wednesday as I have been trying to stave off the cold developing. Hoping to get back on track today though, with at least a 10km run no matter what the pace!! I suppose it's just one of these little things, working the body harder than normal will prob deplete the immune system a little bit, but in the context of the while plan, the few missed days shouldn't be too bad!

chrislad

ratracer wrote: »

Same here Chrislad, I have no running done since Wednesday as I have been trying to stave off the cold developing. Hoping to get back on track today though, with at least a 10km run no matter what the pace!! I suppose it's just one of these little things, working the body harder than normal will prob deplete the immune system a little bit, but in the context of the while plan, the few missed days shouldn't be too bad!

I'm feeling a bit better this morning. Throat isn't as sore, but runny nose. I'll see how I feel tonight before I abandon the 3 miler, but hopefully I should be okay. I tend to get over these things quickly enough. It's good timing in that if I miss the next 3 days, it's just a longer taper for the half marathon. I don't think a 4 mile run, and 2 3 mile runs being missed will have any consequence.

denis b

Just a little something to digest as we approach the HM and subsequent DCM. It might be something to muse over during taper week!!!!

kit3

denis b wrote: »

Just a little something to digest as we approach the HM and subsequent DCM. It might be something to muse over during taper week!!!!

Interesting article. I definitely think the mind plays a huge part in marathon running. I will invariably spend the week before an event trying to get out of it but once I'm there I will get to the finish if I have to crawl.

Clearlier

Clearlier wrote: »

Sorry to hear of your struggles whoopsa.

Something that may be worth trying is belly breathing.
Start off by lying on the ground and relax all of your muscles starting with your big toe and working your way up your body.
Then start taking deeper breaths but like your trying to breathe into the bottom of your back.
As you breathe in you want to see your belly rise rather than your chest.
Alternate breathing in so that your chest rises on one breath and your stomach on the next one so that you understand the difference between them.

When you've mastered belly breathing while lying on your back progress to doing it while standing up, then while walking and finally when running.

Your chances of getting a stitch should be greatly reduced if you breathe like this when running.

Thank you clearlier

I am a belly breather normally, but I'm thinking maybe when I'm under a bit of pressure I'm losing this, heading out for long run later so I will pay particular attention to it then. Last 30 minutes are @ marathon HR so it will be a good time to practice.

My trainer thinks my stitch yesterday was caused by too much fluids before the race, I take a dioralyte every day now since my sodium levels were low, but probably could have taken it later instead.

Best thing about today: I FOUND MY LOVELY FORERUNNER 220 \o/

Honest to jesus, Dubgal can confirm that I have the teeniest car in the world and I searched it a millions times (ok maybe seven). Was in a shopping centre this morning that had those mobile valet lads and so I decided to get my car hoovered etc and came back to the car and there's the watch sitting on the dashboard. I got so excited. Yer man thinks I'm nuts!

The HR function wasn't working on the new one I bought so was difficult to gauge. Looking forward to me run now

Dubgal72

^^^ haha deadly

I was going to suggest too that your liquid intake seemed a bit high. On the morning of a race, I usually have a half pint of water, a coffee and sips to freshen the mouth as and when really needed until the off (of course everyone's liquid toleration/need is different). Good (but not too much!) hydration the day before is more important, imo. Might see you later, I'm going to brave the rain after 4:30 for a couple of hours in your direction if you fancy company for a few km?

If you don't mind slowing to a shuffle for a while then that sounds great

Dubgal72

Deleted User wrote: »

If you don't mind slowing to a shuffle for a while then that sounds great

Cool I'll give you a shout in a mo

ratracer

And I'm back in the game!!!

Hopefully the cold/flu thing seems to have passed, I got 11km done on the treadmill this morning - First 5k took 34 mins, then completed the second 5k in 26 mins, and cooled down for the last km. body felt good and legs were fresh. I'm going to change my LSR to midweek now, so just need to re-organise the plan a little bit.
The threatened PF seems to be kept at bay with regular stretching of the foot, so will keep working on that too.

Singer

22 mile LSR, average pace 8'53. Followed the pattern of the Nike App telling me my speed, then slowing down, then absent mindedly speeding up, then the Nike App telling me my speed, then slowing down etc. I brought along a decent amount of jellies, and put in a sachet of High 5 energy power into one of the two water bottles on me. I also very wisely brought along a pair of sunglasses... :cool: and got completely drenched by persistent rain from an hour in during the run. I went from Swords to Clare Hall, onto Raheny, down through St. Anne's Park, on to the seafront (some fast flat miles there...), up the Tonglee Road back on to the Malahide Road, back into Malahide and then home to Swords via Yellow Walls. I didn't originally plan to do 22 miles, I could have turned for home a bit earlier but I wasn't sure that'd have gotten me to 20 so kept going. Felt solid throughout, no danger of a bonk. After my feet got soaked half way through I noticed a little bit of rubbing on the outside of my left big toe, now there's a big blister with blood behind it - gonna drain it after this

splits: 8'42, 8'18, 8'43, 9'03, 8'47, 9'19, 9'01, 8'59, 8'50, 9'08, 8'25, 8'32, 8'38, 8'59, 8'43, 8'54, 8'52, 9'02, 9'04, 9'00, 9'04, 9'06

Kennyg71

44 miles for week

LSR with 10 PMP miles as per plan this morning
Up at 7 and brekie of pordige. Out late last night
as Brothers 30th. So little tired getting up, no
Alcohol so in prety good shape otherwise.

3 of us on run this morning, all feeling a lot better
than last week colds etc left behind. Plan was to pick
Up run after mile 6, to leave 2 mile cool down. Run
Went really well, bit of rain and wind but not to bad
Think all in all good running weather.

Met PJD out on road this morning,looking fit and
Comfortable running, been quiet lately,glad to see
In fine form.

18 miles completed 2.50 hrs. Avg 9.27 mile
Splits
9.57
9.57
9.57
9.56
10.05
9.49 gel taken
9.11
9.12
8.59
9.18 road works
9.04
9.08
8.55
8.57
9.06
8.53
9.59
9.49
Post run bagel with cheese scrambled egg & relish Also
Hand full of mixed nuts. Stretching & ice water challenge,
Only Ice once week after LSR or do not think Achilies
Would be in good shape to get good start to each week.

PJD

Kennyg71 wrote: »

44 miles for week

LSR with 10 PMP miles as per plan this morning
Up at 7 and brekie of pordige. Out late last night
as Brothers 30th. So little tired getting up, no
Alcohol so in prety good shape otherwise.

3 of us on run this morning, all feeling a lot better
than last week colds etc left behind. Plan was to pick
Up run after mile 6, to leave 2 mile cool down. Run
Went really well, bit of rain and wind but not to bad
Think all in all good running weather.

Met PJD out on road this morning,looking fit and
Comfortable running, been quiet lately,glad to see
In fine form.

just back from Scotland! I was scheduled to take part in the great Dublin bike ride this morning but decided to keep the main thing the main thing so took to the streets for my 30km. All good. No pains but a bit jaded after all the driving. Early bed for me! Kept a passing watch on the posts while away but propably missed loads. Hope everyone is well and knocking out the LSRs this weekend.

Kennyg71

PJD wrote: »

just back from Scotland! I was scheduled to take part in the great Dublin bike ride this morning but decided to keep the main thing the main thing so took to the streets for my 30km. All good. No pains but a bit jaded after all the driving. Early bed for me! Kept a passing watch on the posts while away but propably missed loads. Hope everyone is well and knocking out the LSRs this weekend.

Good to hear all good with you, miss all your chatter & novel ideas.
Seen all bike riders on 100k cycle. Held me up on junction for about
15 mins going on to coast road to start run.

There have been spate of IKEA injuries, hope u have hung up DIY
boots till after DCM😜

This Fat Girl Runs

Did my 16 mile LSR this morning. Mostly Garmin-less because my Garmin was being a prick. Couldn't rely on it at all so turned it round on my wrist so I couldn't see it.

Usual morning routine: overnight oats at 6:10am, back to bed then up again and out the door before half 8.

Struggled with the run but more mentally, not physically. Physically everything was fine, legs ok, form good, breathing steady, hydrated and only took one gel (mile 8). Mentally, well I won't clutter up the thread but I'll be blogging about it because I let some really dark, nasty, negative thoughts slow me down.

At mile 12 I actually was tempted to pack it in, go home and hide under the covers. 2 things kept me out there: 1) 16 miles was on the plan and I needed to stick to the plan and 2) I would have to report the run back to my coach and to you guys.

So, 16 miles done; I'm not even going to post my splits as I am not sure about them at all. Like I said my Garmin was all over the place. It had me running paces of 11:59 all the way up to 17:16! Not possible! Also, Mapmyrun on my phone recorded from door to door said I ran 16.64 miles. Garmin, turned on at my starting point and recorded until it hit 16 miles then cool down of 1.3 miles gives 17.3 total. Both show the same route on the map. What gives? (I google mapped my run yesterday, the route I planned was supposed to be 16 miles but according to my watch I hit 16 long before I should have!). Anyway, phone or watch I did at least hit 16 miles!

Anyway, all that being said, I finished the run despite the negativity in my head and am glad to have the miles in my legs. Tired, aching but happy legs. After I got home I did my recovery routine (stretch, protein, shower, lunch) then went back out to walk to my running store to talk marathon shoes, then walked into Jervis and back home. I was nearly crying when I got to come in and finally sit down! When you guys say to keep mobile after an LSR, how mobile are we talking?!

Well done everyone on their running this week and good luck with the taper into the Half! I am looking up flapjack recipes this week! Unless, everyone would rather 'screw the flapjacks' and go for pints?! I'm ok with whatever you decide!

BIRDCAGE1

FBOT01 wrote: »

There is a temptation when you read what other people are doing to start questioning your plan and look at changing it..........resist

Thanks for the reality check FBOT - there is definitely a part of me that starts to question everything when I start reading other folks posts and the things they are doing.
When I read DG's post earlier in the week about the ratio between LSR and full weeks mileages, I sat down and calculated out all my ratios to date and none of them hit the 35:65 ratio - but I figured, after a while, that the plan can't be wrong so just stick with it.

Peter D61

BIRDCAGE1 wrote: »

Thanks for the reality check FBOT - there is definitely a part of me that starts to question everything when I start reading other folks posts and the things they are doing.
When I read DG's post earlier in the week about the ratio between LSR and full weeks mileages, I sat down and calculated out all my ratios to date and none of them hit the 35:65 ratio - but I figured, after a while, that the plan can't be wrong so just stick with it.

I'm also on the Irish runner plan and I don't see much of a taper for the half next weekend.

Peter D61

16 mile lsr done, second half in the rain. Shankill up to ballybrack village to killiney, down avondale rd and Albert rd to sandycove harbour, along the seafront to blackrock, around to deansgrange left at the Grange, past bakers (pit stop at my mothers for a bottle of water), up the hill to sallynoggin, through sallynoggin to the rochestown lodge,down Johnstown rd to the n11and home. I was tired a the end, little niggle in my knee but nothing some ice won't fix.

Mile 1. 9:41
Mile 2. 9:49
Mile 3. 9:35
Mile 4. 9:40 gel
Mile 5. 9:51
Mile 6. 10:04
Mile 7. 10:04
Mile 8. 10:19 gel
Mile 9. 10:31
Mile 10. 12:02. Pit stop
Mile 11. 10:15
Mile 12. 10:47 gel
Mile 13. 10:30
Mile 14. 10:16
Mile 15. 10:03
Mile 16. 10:41

Average 10:17 mins/mile

Bit too fast maybe but I find it difficult to slow down.