Crane crashes in Mecca's Grand Mosque

Amirani · 11-09-2015 10:01PM

Stheno wrote: »

How do they check you are Muslin before allowing you in?

Have to be on some list or profess your faith I guess. Non-Muslim tourists are generally not really welcomed in Saudi Arabia.

11-09-2015 10:01PM

There's a lot of confusion on this site about conspiracy theories, Irony and tragic accident,
I would say It's Ironic that it happened on this day in this place, by all accounts an accident caused by bad weather.

zoe 3619 · 11-09-2015 10:05PM

Royal Irish wrote: »

Fact is 9/11 was perpetrated by Islamic extremists and on the anniversary of 9/11 a crane falls not only in the home country of 15 of the 19 hijackers, but in the home of the most extreme form of Islam, Wahhabism and at Islams most holy site. So much irony.

Coincidence.
And condolances to the families of the dead,who were attending a religious service,and who were possibly not all terrorists.

smurfjed · 11-09-2015 10:07PM

Have to be on some list or profess your faith I guess.

Resident permits for people in Saudi Arabia state the persons religion, there are checkpoints surrounding Makkah and Madinah to check people entering the area.

Non-Muslim tourists are generally not really welcomed in Saudi Arabia.

People actually visit Saudi to go scuba diving.

RDM_83 again · 11-09-2015 10:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

the BBC news page says that there was a storm at the time.

You can actually see the storm at 0.26 in this video (from link)

http://www.rt.com/news/315082-crane-collapses-mecca-mosque/

Stheno · 11-09-2015 10:09PM

smurfjed wrote: »

Resident permits for people in Saudi Arabia state the persons religion, there are checkpoints surrounding Makkah and Madinah to check people entering the area.

People actually visit Saudi to go scuba diving.

Ah so visas probably have the same for visitors

zoe 3619 · 11-09-2015 10:12PM

ISIS lives lost = human (muslim) lives lost. Who gives a bollix? Nobody.

Speaking for yourself there.I do.

johnny osbourne · 11-09-2015 10:19PM

...

RobbingBandit · 11-09-2015 10:26PM

Idiots like the West baptist church nut jobs will latch on to this like flies on ****e, sad for the people who have died in such a tragic way.

Niemoj · 11-09-2015 10:29PM

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Would you be crying at the thought of ISIS lives being lost?

Crying? No.

Upset? Yes.

A life is a life, it is precious.

RobertKK · 11-09-2015 10:31PM

Stheno wrote: »

How do they check you are Muslin before allowing you in?

http://www.travellingforfun.com/non-muslims-in-mecca-saudi-arabia

. So off on my merry journey I went wondering how would anybody verify that you were Muslim or not. Now being white would be a sign but there are plenty of white Muslims in the world so if I tried to keep a low profile and with my darkening tan maybe I could pass for a Moroccan or something! Surely they couldn’t check everybody as that would be a major operation, they must just have security or something close to the mosque so you can’t get close. Yeah, that must be it.

Oh no, that wasn’t it. They do check everybody. How do they do it? By putting huge checkpoints across the motorways exactly like tolls. And they also put a huge sign over the road to say if you are non-Muslim then get off. It seems crazy but in Saudi anything is possible. You feel very unloved and rejected. Up the ramp I went and onto the ‘Christian bypass’ which brings you 50km out of your way into the desert to bypass the city. The city is the holiest in Islam and hence Mecca is forbidden for non-Muslims, Medina further north also has this restriction. So how do they know that a white dude from Ireland isn’t a closet Muslim? Well firstly if you convert to Islam you need to take a Muslim name, Mohammed, Hamed, Abdullah etc. They are surprisingly few different names in Saudi as they are all named after the prophet or his followers so you end up knowing tens of people with the same name. But I’m sure if I managed to get around that part they would ask a prayer or two which is always in Arabic to trip me up. So with high hopes of seeing the mosque I drove out into the sunset in the desert and onto Taif and its baboons fully rejected from Mecca and once again Saudi’s making life hard.

shamrock55 · 11-09-2015 10:48PM

Niemoj wrote: »

Crying? No.

Upset? Yes.

A life is a life, it is precious.

You would be upset at isis lives being lost, are you for real?, tbh if it was 87 members of isis who were killed id be popping open the champers

Streetwalker · 11-09-2015 11:19PM

Some of the replies on this thread have been shocking. I wonder if it was a church in Berkley full of Irish people if the jokes would be so cruel. Shame on all who make fun of this tragedy.

zoe 3619 · 11-09-2015 11:50PM

Alexis Sanchez wrote: »

Allah must be displeased if he allowed this to happen.

Same as god is when there's a disaster in the western world?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 12-09-2015 02:26AM

zoe 3619 wrote: »

Same as god is when there's a disaster in the western world?

Are they not the same 'God' anyway, for instance Jesus is also viewed as a prophet in Islam.

Xaracatz · 12-09-2015 12:48PM

Such callous responses here. Some people would stretch to any lengths to make whatever argumentive point that they feel like.

I was in Cairo this week, and spoke to some Muslims who were very open and willing to explain their faith. The trip to Mecca is one which is very important, and look at the logistics. It takes effort, organising, and time (as obviously not everyone can descend there in one go). Different countries with differing Muslim populations get different allocations per year.

So - it is a trip that you want to take from childhood, that you have to put a lot of work into to take, and is hugely important to you. You are awaiting this far more than a trip to Ibiza after your Leaving Cert.

Then, take in the faith side, which is far more important. Being religious has become unpopular in Ireland. But religious beliefs are still powerful and can make up a lot of who you are.

The anticipation, the effort, the cost (and I mention this, as it is a factor for making this journey for many people). The fact that people who did this because of their beliefs could be joked at after they died, is really sickening. Their families who saw them off to go to Mecca, and who were probably so proud and happy, now get their lives changed with this.

How anyone could make a joke or not be able to even slightly comprehend what this means to real, actual people, is beyond me.

Tzardine · 12-09-2015 12:54PM

I have a few Pakistani friends on Facebook who put up some uncensored pictures of this. I thought it was a bomb at first, the carnage and bodies was horrific.

Having lived in the middle east for two years I can not begin to tell you how non existent the health and safety culture is there.

old_aussie · 12-09-2015 01:04PM

Alexis Sanchez wrote: »

Allah must be displeased if he allowed this to happen.

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Not cool man, people have lost their lives performing a pious pilgrimage based on their belief system.

You do yourself a disservice mocking a tragic act such as this, regardless of your opinions on Islam.

Looks like allah was displeased

Alexis Sanchez is correct and Mesrine65 is ignorant of the fact!

The Qur’an tells us that good, evil and whatever happens in this world happens by Allah’s Will

http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-the-scholar/muslim-creed/muslim-belief/174982-why-does-allah-allow-suffering-and-evil-in-the-world.html

tom_murphy112 · 12-09-2015 01:07PM

I really don't understand why people are siding with a country that does publicly beheading, stoning people to death and flogging. aka exactly what the ISIS are doing (Sharia law).. yet just because they are one of the largest producers of Crude oil, the Americans and the British let it slide..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Saudi_Arabia

But again it is always sad to see innocent people die

Xaracatz · 12-09-2015 01:16PM

tom_murphy112 wrote: »

I really don't understand why people are siding with a country that does publicly beheading, stoning people to death and flogging. aka exactly what the ISIS are doing (Sharia law).. yet just because they are one of the largest producers of Crude oil, the Americans and the British let it slide..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Saudi_Arabia

But again it is always sad to see innocent people die

Siding with a country? A crane fell over and people died. I don't understand what you mean in your post. But maybe that's just me, so feel free to elaborate on how people are siding with a country in this context.

Boolean · 12-09-2015 01:19PM

moc moc a moc wrote:

Would you be crying at the thought of ISIS lives being lost?

Crying with joy

tom_murphy112 · 12-09-2015 01:29PM

Xaracatz wrote: »

Siding with a country? A crane fell over and people died. I don't understand what you mean in your post. But maybe that's just me, so feel free to elaborate on how people are siding with a country in this context.

So let me be clear, my personal view is - They got what they fecking deserved
The saying what goes around, comes back around comes into my mind

Plus the countries recent response to the Syrian crises.. is to "Offers Germany 200 mosques – one for every 100 refugees who arrived last weekend".. Like seriously????? - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/saudi-arabia-offers-germany-200-mosques--one-for-every-100-refugees-who-arrived-last-weekend-10495082.html

Why not open their doors to a single so called muslim bothers or sisters.. shows their attitudes towards other human beings..

Samaris · 12-09-2015 01:31PM

Ah, sheesh. It's an awful thing to happen, to -ordinary people- making a journey of a lifetime to worship in their holiest place. Not irony, not something to joke about, 107 ordinary people, probably including families and older children were suddenly killed horrifically somewhere they should have been safe.

230 people - again, ordinary people making a once-in-a-lifetime journey to somewhere incredibly important to them - are badly injured and traumatised and thousands more will suffer and mourn. It is an awful event, and while, sure, one is free to make jokes about it, it's in bloody bad taste.

Edit to the edit: Deleted response to tommurphy on the grounds of preferring not to get banned! :P Let my aggravated retching sound stand in for words.

gormdubhgorm · 12-09-2015 01:31PM

I am just glad I am not religious at all so I can avoid these types of accidents.They never say when it goes bad it is the wrath of god. But when good extraordinary things happen it they say it is a miracle from god....

Capt'n Midnight · 12-09-2015 01:41PM

Daily Mail , so the pictures give some scale of what's going on , just ignore much of the text.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3231117/At-62-people-dead-crane-collapses-Grand-Mosque-Mecca.html

The crane belongs to a German crane company operated by the Bin Laden family's consortium, who are heading the expansion of the Holy Mosque.
...
A massive £14billion project is currently underway to increase the area of the mosque by 4.3million sq ft - so that it can accommodate up to 2.2 million people at once.
...
Abdel Aziz Naqoor, who said he works at the mosque, told AFP he saw the massive construction crane fall after being hit by the storm.

'If it weren't for Al-Tawaf bridge the injuries and deaths would have been worse,' he said, referring to a covered walkway that surrounds the holy Kaaba, which broke the crane's fall.
...
Steep hills and low-rise traditional buildings that once surrounded the mosque have in recent years given way to shopping malls and luxury hotels - among them the world's third-tallest building.

Before anyone gets started yes this is that Bin Laden family that are personal friends of the George Bush family. No they don't talk much about that black sheep that no longer matters.

SFW link - lots of cranes to give an idea of the scale of construction
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/12/01/2C332C7100000578-3231117-image-a-170_1442016401464.jpg

Operating mobile cranes in high winds are accidents waiting to happen, lots of accidents worldwide.

Wibbs · 12-09-2015 01:44PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Before anyone gets started yes this is that Bin Laden family that are personal friends of the George Bush family. No they don't talk much about that black sheep that no longer matters.

Operating mobile cranes in high winds are accidents waiting to happen, lots of accidents worldwide.

Among Muslims what the Saudi's are doing to the areas around the holy sites is not exactly welcomed. There has been a lot of criticism for their building work, some of which has destroyed very early important buildings.

Menas · 12-09-2015 01:50PM

tom_murphy112 wrote: »

So let me be clear, my personal view is - They got what they fecking deserved
The saying what goes around, comes back around comes into my mind

Plus the countries recent response to the Syrian crises.. is to "Offers Germany 200 mosques – one for every 100 refugees who arrived last weekend".. Like seriously????? - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/saudi-arabia-offers-germany-200-mosques--one-for-every-100-refugees-who-arrived-last-weekend-10495082.html

Why not open their doors to a single so called muslim bothers or sisters.. shows their attitudes towards other human beings..

What? People who were on a pilgrimage to mecca and died in an accident 'got what they deserved'?
No one from the ruling saud family was killed. These are just ordinary pilgrims, from many countries.

El Weirdo · 12-09-2015 01:53PM

tom_murphy112 wrote: »

So let me be clear, my personal view is - They got what they fecking deserved
The saying what goes around, comes back around comes into my mind

Plus the countries recent response to the Syrian crises.. is to "Offers Germany 200 mosques – one for every 100 refugees who arrived last weekend".. Like seriously????? - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/saudi-arabia-offers-germany-200-mosques--one-for-every-100-refugees-who-arrived-last-weekend-10495082.html

Why not open their doors to a single so called muslim bothers or sisters.. shows their attitudes towards other human beings..

You've a fucking cheek to be banging on about "attitudes towards other human beings".

tom_murphy112 · 12-09-2015 02:38PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

You've a fucking cheek to be banging on about "attitudes towards other human beings".

I am just trying to make a honest judgement based on what I see.. Look at the what a mess the muslims are doing in the UK with the amount of hate preachers that are allowed to roam the streets.. Do you read the news ???

For my point about attitude towards other humans.. watch this video and it will change you mind about Saudi's and their so called sharia law (it changed my mind alright) - http://shoebat.com/2015/01/15/video-woman-gets-beheaded-middle-street-right-public-view/

The only point I am trying to prove is why feel sorry for a country that would do such a thing.. that is all..
I believe everyone has their opines and this is mine.. They surely got what they deserve and I believe it is karma

Samaris · 12-09-2015 02:49PM

COUNTRY? It's nothing to do with the country! These were ordinary people.

It's like, as someone commented earlier, saying that the Irish people deserved what they got whenever the IRA did something. Or the British people if it comes to that. -Ordinary people-. Not some political mass.

Crane crashes in Mecca's Grand Mosque

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